From jammer at weak.org Fri May 5 09:45:53 2000 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 09:45:53 -0700 Subject: [buug] Why do I like NetBSD over Linux? Message-ID: <20000505094553.A5499@weak.org> To quote: "The current development kernel release is still 2.3.99-pre6. There is a pre-prepatch for 2.3.99-pre7 available in its fourth revision as of this writing." Huh? -Jon From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri May 5 10:04:59 2000 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:04:59 -0700 Subject: [buug] Why do I like NetBSD over Linux? In-Reply-To: <20000505094553.A5499@weak.org>; from jammer@weak.org on Fri, May 05, 2000 at 09:45:53AM -0700 References: <20000505094553.A5499@weak.org> Message-ID: <20000505100459.F14567@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Jon McClintock (jammer at weak.org): > "The current development kernel release is still 2.3.99-pre6. There is a > pre-prepatch for 2.3.99-pre7 available in its fourth revision as of this > writing." > > Huh? I like NetBSD a lot, too (though I prefer FreeBSD on applicable hardware). However, what _that_ means is that Alan Cox was up late, that night, and decided to offer a patch even more experimental than his usual, I-can't-wait-for-the-next-official-beta patches. -- Cheers, "Heedless of grammar, they all cried 'It's him!'" Rick Moen -- R.H. Barham, _Misadventure at Margate_ rick at linuxmafia.com From bill at wiliweld.com Fri May 5 09:05:36 2000 From: bill at wiliweld.com (Bill) Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 09:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Why do I like NetBSD over Linux? In-Reply-To: <20000505100459.F14567@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 May 2000, Rick Moen wrote: rick-> I like NetBSD a lot, too (though I prefer FreeBSD on applicable rick-> hardware). Hello Rick, Funny just today at work I was fighting my first install of NetBSD-1.4 on a tester box I have setup and ran into some configuration complaints about "bpf", the distro is NetBSD-1.4, and you of course know the network at my work too. I take that back, the install was one of the easiest I've done, right along with OpenBSD's and FreeBSD's, it's the DHCP that bit me. I followed some online setup stuff for the /etd/dhclient.conf file and when the "bpf" (Berkeley Packet Filter) stuff came up it kinda stopped my coffee break and I just put a bookmark in it and continued taking care of my current Linux customers. I'm at home now typing this from my OpenBSD-2.6 box and trying to broaden my *BSD experience for I'm seeing that the whole world does not revolve around ANY one operating system, taking a stroll through the /dev directory of any of the *BSD's will tell you that not all primary IDE drives are named /dev/hda, nor the first nic card eth0 !!! Looking forward to hearing you as the guest speaker on Thursday, May 11 @ 7:30pm in Foster City at the BSD meeting at "Whistle's Corp. Bill Schoolcraft http://www.billschoolcraft.com PO Box 210076 San Francisco, CA 94121 " beneficium invito non datur " -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3a mQCNAzkGQuoAAAEEAMGLYMPnVbM1krYoFV7iJdyKF8ZjBw/xBRVPrfkxEbZtbYhr zsmjEH72wynfFo+ndPPpZIwm2b/Saji4RnO2jjL2QJ3MZKH5y3l8ZBUEz9UalrX9 AyiK9LbsGUPdDiVCD+KQqrUhXSTA6wBwyEE7Cv4rOpQDGFip98evZtswURL9AAUR tCRCaWxsIFNjaG9vbGNyYWZ0IDxiaWxsQHdpbGl3ZWxkLmNvbT6JAJUDBRA5BkLq x69m2zBREv0BAcYwBACsWHRAWLBTgChuPbnlEHiboOpmvN7ZbSilAeD5SB0hoYW0 x4D1UyRXnUcUPxVSEb4gnH7URO5BIpsqs57b5AbN/IT3sSS7KBQDsZH3ey3uOwFt dC5kp+qEcsMiJw0a8ox83Wo/oIUAtqTolwcPPiVKKjyatejLOKGMMl14LcxIcA== =EeYV -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From feedle at feedle.net Tue May 16 13:19:16 2000 From: feedle at feedle.net (Christopher Sullivan) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] buug-pr mailing list? Message-ID: Can we set up a list reflector called "buug-pr" for press releases? Can this mailing list be reflected into a web page, rather than individual mailboxes? I hate spam. -Fedl From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue May 16 13:41:07 2000 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:41:07 -0700 Subject: [buug] buug-pr mailing list? In-Reply-To: ; from feedle@feedle.net on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 01:19:16PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20000516134107.B18560@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Christopher Sullivan (feedle at feedle.net): > Can we set up a list reflector called "buug-pr" for press releases? Can > this mailing list be reflected into a web page, rather than individual > mailboxes? > > I hate spam. It's probably sufficient to (1) block non-subscriber posts, (2) post a policy saying job announcements / press releases must be posted via an officer if at all, and (3) lock out with derisive laughter anyone who ignores that policy. I suspect that point #1 is the main problem, at present. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Make vole, not raw." rick (at) linuxmafia.com -- From _Dyslextrata_, by Aristophanes From feedle at feedle.net Tue May 16 13:54:02 2000 From: feedle at feedle.net (Christopher Sullivan) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] This spam sucks. Message-ID: Okay. I'm getting a bit peeved over the frequency of spams the buug-admin list gets. I know we can't eliminate it, but we can do something about it. I've taken the (currently two) biggest offenders, and put their contact info on a webpage: http://www.feedle.net/buug/hallofshame.html. I feel the only way we can strongly discourage this behavior is to generate some negative PR for these people (secondarily, the maito: links in the html are bound to be spamspider food). Additionally, I've added some suggestions to how to appropriately advertise their products to us. Note in the message I mention buug-pr at weak.org. Jon has created this list specifically for transmission of stuff like this, so the buug-admin list won't get hit quite so hard... and Unix/linux vendors can still send us stuff. As much as I hate spam, I can honestly say some of it is interesting... I just don't want it in my INBOX. Any thoughts on this? From ezekielk at netzero.net Tue May 16 14:03:29 2000 From: ezekielk at netzero.net (Zeke Krahlin) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:03:29 -0700 Subject: [buug] buug-pr mailing list? References: <20000516134107.B18560@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <3921B7A1.9A9C920D@netzero.net> Rick Moen wrote: > It's probably sufficient to (1) block non-subscriber posts, (2) post > a policy saying job announcements / press releases must be posted > via an officer if at all, and (3) lock out with derisive laughter > anyone who ignores that policy. > > I suspect that point #1 is the main problem, at present. Hi, Rick! These spammers are most likely harvesting addresses from Linux group lists, in the "who to contact" links. For example, we are on the "linuxjournal" list at: http://www2.linuxjournal.com/cgi-bin/frames.pl/glue/groups/index.html I have not noticed any spam going to our regular mailing list, since I changed the "mailto:" link to a web form. The "buug-admin" address is considered the "officer" address, AFAIK. One solution, then, is to have Jon take on a little more work in maintaining a spam-free administration list. This may or may not be fair, or even possible...considering his busy schedule. Suggested solution: create another address for the administrators (us), and let the original address be routed to just one person, who will separate spam from any relevant mail. I will be glad to take this on...in which case, Jon would have to set up an automatic "forward" to me. I can even place all mail received through "buug-admin" onto a web page, per Feedle's suggestion. _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From jammer at weak.org Tue May 16 14:04:40 2000 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:04:40 -0700 Subject: [buug] buug-pr mailing list? In-Reply-To: <20000516134107.B18560@linuxmafia.com>; from rick@linuxmafia.com on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 01:41:07PM -0700 References: <20000516134107.B18560@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20000516140440.A11089@weak.org> On Tue, May 16, 2000 at 01:41:07PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > It's probably sufficient to (1) block non-subscriber posts, (2) post > a policy saying job announcements / press releases must be posted > via an officer if at all, and (3) lock out with derisive laughter > anyone who ignores that policy. > > I suspect that point #1 is the main problem, at present. The buug at weak.org mailing list does block non-subscriber posts. However, the buug-admin mailing list does not. It will not and can not; we need a general point-of-contact for our group. Unfortunately, it appears that a great deal of semi-respectable companies scan through the user group listings for email addresses and then spam them all. Witness the UCE with the addresses of 20 or 30 user groups in the recipient field. We do have a posted policy against UCE. It doesn't really help against people who are using automatically generated lists. -Jon From ezekielk at netzero.net Tue May 16 14:07:59 2000 From: ezekielk at netzero.net (Zeke Krahlin) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:07:59 -0700 Subject: [buug] This spam sucks. References: Message-ID: <3921B8AE.2F5EEC85@netzero.net> Christopher Sullivan wrote: > Note in the message I mention buug-pr at weak.org. Jon has created this list > specifically for transmission of stuff like this, so the buug-admin list > won't get hit quite so hard... and Unix/linux vendors can still send us > stuff. As much as I hate spam, I can honestly say some of it is > interesting... I just don't want it in my INBOX. This "buug-admin" address is on about five different linux user group lists. I'll have to go to each one, and change it to "buug-pr at weak.org"...if that is the way you think we ought to go about it. I'm sure this spam is coming from our contact address being on these lists. We might go upstream, and suggest these listing services assume some responsibility in blocking spam. _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue May 16 15:08:10 2000 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:08:10 -0700 Subject: [buug] This spam sucks. In-Reply-To: ; from feedle@feedle.net on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 01:54:02PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20000516150810.D18560@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Christopher Sullivan (feedle at feedle.net): > I've taken the (currently two) biggest offenders, and put their contact > info on a webpage: http://www.feedle.net/buug/hallofshame.html. Not exactly relevant to the discussion, but: The 3Ware products are _not_ (as described on that page) "SCSI RAID controllers". They are cheap-ass IDE, which is a laughable way to build a RAID array in every respect but chasing bottom dollar per meg of redundant storage. I still suspect that if you block non-subscriber posts to the admin list, the problem will pretty much vanish. -- Cheers, It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. Rick Moen It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, rick (at) The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning, linuxmafia.com It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue May 16 15:12:58 2000 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:12:58 -0700 Subject: [buug] buug-pr mailing list? In-Reply-To: <20000516140440.A11089@weak.org>; from jammer@weak.org on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 02:04:40PM -0700 References: <20000516134107.B18560@linuxmafia.com> <20000516140440.A11089@weak.org> Message-ID: <20000516151258.E18560@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Jon McClintock (jammer at weak.org): > > The buug at weak.org mailing list does block non-subscriber posts. > However, the buug-admin mailing list does not. It will not and can not; we > need a general point-of-contact for our group. Ah. I can well understand, since I get vast amounts of junk on any e-mail address I have exposed on any mailto: link. If you want to block off that avenue (and I haven't personally bothered), the standard method is to change all mailtos to CGI forms, which deliver mail without exposing the address to public view (and hence harvesting). Of course, e-mail accounts that appear on Web pages (including list archives) and Usenet newsgroups will keep getting spam until Doomsday because they're never purged from some lists. The only way around _that_ problem I'm aware of is to always use plus-addressing when using an e-mail address in public. I keep trying to get Heather Stern to write up a HOWTO on the latter subject. She knows the technique much better than I do. -- Cheers, It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. Rick Moen It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, rick (at) The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning, linuxmafia.com It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. From ezekielk at netzero.net Tue May 16 15:33:58 2000 From: ezekielk at netzero.net (Zeke Krahlin) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:33:58 -0700 Subject: [buug] Advert is okay Message-ID: <3921CCD6.9F879C15@netzero.net> Uti, just to inform you that the advert is fine for publication in the Community Yellow Pages. Peter was there, and assured me on this. There is, however, the matter of using higher resolution in future. The .PCD (photo CD) image format by Kodak, seems to only want to translate as 100 pixels per inch...and we really want something around 200 (or best: 300). Given the brief time I had to meet the deadline, I have not been able to learn how to get a higher resolution. All the image editors I use, were incapable of changing PCD resolution to anything higher. Perhaps this process must be done by a program that came with your digital camera...so that, I'd have to process images to a higher resolution on your iMac. Anyway, Peter says the advert will look very good at this lower resolution. _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From ezekielk at netzero.net Tue May 16 15:36:17 2000 From: ezekielk at netzero.net (Zeke Krahlin) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:36:17 -0700 Subject: [buug] buug-pr mailing list? References: <20000516134107.B18560@linuxmafia.com> <20000516140440.A11089@weak.org> <20000516151258.E18560@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <3921CD61.F3FAE132@netzero.net> Rick Moen wrote: > If you want to block off that avenue (and I haven't personally > bothered), the standard method is to change all mailtos to CGI forms, > which deliver mail without exposing the address to public view (and > hence harvesting). I've done that on our own BUUG website. I can see if these Linux group listings will allow me to post a cgi form in lieu of a standard "mailto:". FYI, our admin cgi form is presently: http://formmail.to/buug-admin "Formmail" is a very nice free form-making service. > Of course, e-mail accounts that appear on Web pages (including list > archives) and Usenet newsgroups will keep getting spam until Doomsday > because they're never purged from some lists. Sad, but true. But I'll give it the old college try. > -- > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, > The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning, > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. See you at the "Albert Camus" Cafe! --- Ezekiel J. ("I couldn't hack my way out of a virtual paper bag") Krahlin _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue May 16 16:34:39 2000 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:34:39 -0700 Subject: [buug] This spam sucks. In-Reply-To: <3921B8AE.2F5EEC85@netzero.net>; from ezekielk@netzero.net on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 02:07:59PM -0700 References: <3921B8AE.2F5EEC85@netzero.net> Message-ID: <20000516163439.G18560@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at netzero.net): > We might go upstream, and suggest these listing services assume some > responsibility in blocking spam. Difficult. The idea of LUG lists on the Web is to expose them to human eyes that need contact information. Unfortunately, I no of no way to do literally that without also exposing them to Web-crawling address-harvesting robots used by spam firms (and by PR agencies who target LUGs as part of their general dumbass approach to publicity). Technically speaking, it's easy enough for you-all (BUUG) to provide a contact _mechanism_ on your own Web pages, that doesn't expose e-mail addresses (using CGI/forms techniques), but any address that's publicly _listed_ will inevitably get harvested and abused. -- Cheers, It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. Rick Moen It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, rick (at) The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning, linuxmafia.com It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue May 16 16:42:53 2000 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:42:53 -0700 Subject: [buug] buug-pr mailing list? In-Reply-To: <3921CD61.F3FAE132@netzero.net>; from ezekielk@netzero.net on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 03:36:17PM -0700 References: <20000516134107.B18560@linuxmafia.com> <20000516140440.A11089@weak.org> <20000516151258.E18560@linuxmafia.com> <3921CD61.F3FAE132@netzero.net> Message-ID: <20000516164253.H18560@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at netzero.net): > I've done that on our own BUUG website. I can see if these Linux group > listings will allow me to post a cgi form in lieu of a standard > "mailto:". Sadly, probably not. That would not be in accordance with their design aims. The whole idea of those lists is to give people contact information. If it gets to be too annoying, you could ask the list maintainers to omit the e-mail addresses and list only your URL. -- Cheers, It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. Rick Moen It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, rick (at) The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning, linuxmafia.com It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. From ezekielk at netzero.net Wed May 17 16:21:28 2000 From: ezekielk at netzero.net (Zeke Krahlin) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:21:28 -0700 Subject: [buug] buug-pr mailing list? References: <20000516134107.B18560@linuxmafia.com> <20000516140440.A11089@weak.org> <20000516151258.E18560@linuxmafia.com> <3921CD61.F3FAE132@netzero.net> <20000516153718.A11732@weak.org> Message-ID: <39232977.C047F032@netzero.net> Jon McClintock wrote: > Zeke, > > Before we ask people to change their lists, I would like us to be using > our own form... > > That way we don't have to ask them to change it again... Okay, I'll wait. We'll need a separate form for each list...so that the form will provide a link to take the person back to the particular page from whence she came. I will send you a list of all user groups that have us listed, later this eve. _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From ezekielk at netzero.net Thu May 18 12:00:17 2000 From: ezekielk at netzero.net (Zeke Krahlin) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:00:17 -0700 Subject: [buug] Free Network Project Message-ID: <39243DC0.C8CCBAF1@netzero.net> I just learned about the "Free Network Project", a voluntary joint effort by anyone who has a server to spare and a desire to maintain a truly free Internet. http://freenet.sourceforge.net/ ---begin Free Network description (from their home page): Freenet is a peer-to-peer network designed to allow the distribution of information over the Internet in an efficient manner, without fear of censorship. Freenet is completely decentralized, meaning that there is no person, computer, or organisation in control of Freenet or essential to its operation. This means that Freenet cannot be attacked like centralized peer-to-peer systems such as Napster. Freenet also employs intelligent routing and caching meaning that it learns to route requests more efficiently, automatically mirrors popular data, makes network flooding almost impossible, and moves data to where it is in greatest demand. All of this makes it much more efficient and scalable than systems such as Gnutella. To become a part of Freenet all you need is a computer with an Internet connection and the capability to run a Freenet server. We are currently developing a Java server which we have been testing over the past few weeks, but which is not yet release quality. You can download a snapshot of the latest code from the menu on the left. ---end description --- Ezekiel J. ("I couldn't hack my way out of a virtual paper bag") Krahlin _____________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html From ezekielk at iname.com Mon May 22 10:25:35 2000 From: ezekielk at iname.com (ezekielk at iname.com) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:25:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [buug] This Thursday, meet at BAFUG Message-ID: <000522132535DL.16700@weba3.iname.net> This Thursday, being the fourth Thursday of the month (May 25th), means that BUUG meets at BAFUG's Berkeley hangout from 7:30-9:00pm, at Transbay/UC Computers, 2569 Telegraph Avenue. For more complete instructions on getting there, see our map on our home page, "http://www.weak.org/buug/". Also, show up 15 min. early and bring a few bucks, if you intend to partake in the Great Pizza Inhalation Therapy Ritual. -------------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email at http://netscape.iname.com From kewl123 at freewwweb.com Sat May 27 15:44:13 2000 From: kewl123 at freewwweb.com (Kewl 123) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 22:44:13 +0000 Subject: [buug] 2 articles on Unix/Linux security violations Message-ID: <39304FBD.B6409D0F@freewwweb.com> Here are two interesting articles about how a Unix and a Linux network were recently hacked into: Cracked! Part 3: Hunting the Hunter (parts 1 & 2 are accessible here) http://rootprompt.org/article.php3?article=467 Home network attacked by persons unknown http://www.justlinux.com/bin/feature/story.pl?fid=1929218 -- Ezekiel J. ("I couldn't hack my way out of a virtual paper bag") Krahlin: From kewl123 at freewwweb.com Sat May 27 16:55:46 2000 From: kewl123 at freewwweb.com (Kewl 123) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 23:55:46 +0000 Subject: [buug] Mandrake Update Question Message-ID: <39306082.B5F61373@freewwweb.com> Using Linux Mandrake 6.1: while connected to the 'net, I ran the Mandrake update program, and selected all update modules, which totals well over 10mb. Well, after approving all of them, the update window closed, with no indication of whether or not anything was being downloaded, let alone indicating how much time left to complete the updates. So I was afraid to disconnect, not knowing how long this would take. After 20 minutes though, I disconnected anyway. I have not rebooted, yet, so I have no idea how Mandrake will react. But how on earth do I know if any update was made?