[buug] Re: [Buug-admin] Mr Tiemann's unauthorized use
feedle at feedle.net
Tue Sep 26 16:41:04 PDT 2000
On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 TonStanco at aol.com wrote:
> Isn't this some sort of ISP prejudice? It is easy to look at the ISP and use
> that as a short cut to infer what is in someone's heart. But it is
> inaccurate. You have to see how each one thinks and speaks, individually.
> That may be harder, but it is more accurate. Otherwise is it just another
> group-based prejudice.
You have chosen, by your actions, to not support open source. You have
voted against open source with your dollars.
Somebody far more intelligent than me once said, "How can you change the
world if you refuse to change yourself?"
> The reason I use this ISP is because it is the one I started with. At the
> time it was the easiest to use, and I haven't gotten around to changing it.
> Though I think that time is quickly coming.
This infers that you value convenience over your "core
values". Interesting ethics decision. It's not unlike a vegetarian
continuing to eat at McDonald's, instead of supporting the 100% vegetarian
restaurant around the corner because "I've always eaten at McDonald's."
That ethics decision seems to run contrary to what the majority of people
in the Open Source community believe in.
> I will be leaving my job soon to help free software, which is more indicative
> than my ISP of my support of free software. Can you say as much? Or is having
> the "right" ISP enough for you?
I spent four years working for an ISP that was one of the first in
Southern California to have a declared "we support Linux and
BSD" policy. This was largely at my direction as a founding
member of the technical support staff. Additionally, I have selected my
employers over the years based on their embracing of open source
concepts and support of the open source community. Being as I work in the
computer business, I can choose my employers based on their embracing and
support of Open Source. Every company I have worked for in the last
eight years has supported open source both financially, and by "give
back" into the community. My current employer gives meeting space to
small Linux groups, encourages employees to learn about Linux through
education, and permits employees to work on open source projects on
company time when they have some "dead time." They also pay speaking fees
to Open Source leaders to speak at sessions for their employees.
Besides, I never made any insulting remarks to you about your choice of
ISP, other than it seemed disingenuous for someone who is an adamate
supporter of Open Source to be using an internet provider that is, by
definition, proprietary. If you imply that I feel like you are in some
"cyberghetto" because you use AOL, you are putting words into my mouth
that I did not say. I merely wish to understand why you choose to support
financially an Internet provider that is not, by any definition, "open
Also, for the record, I have never stated that I think that closed source
needs to "go away." If you will recall from our conversations, I take a
more middle-of-the-road attitude: that it is ultimately the customer who
decides what licensing method they prefer. Which is why I cannot
understand your contined reliance on a proprietary ISP.
You, on the other hand, presented some strong convictions about closed
source. I view those convictions as being in conflict with using a
proprietary ISP on a proprietary operating system. I am merely
questioning your dedication to the beliefs you allegedly espouse, and your
motives behind those beliefs.
Using the "right" ISP will certainly go a long way to establishing your
dedication to the values that the Open Source community
Or have you forgotten that Open Source isn't a company, it isn't a
product... it's a community of people bound by a common goal: to create
quality "free" software. Supporting Internet providers (like Transbay
Computers here in Berkeley.. they allow the FreeBSD group to hold their
meetings in the back) that support Open Source is an easy way to join that
community, and "give back" something without having to write a line of
> Life is much more complicated than black and white. There are no shortcuts to
> true understanding of a person.
There are no shortcuts to true understanding of a community. By not
participating in an important part of the Open Source community (i.e. by
choosing a closed-source ISP for your primary source of internet
access) you are the one taking shortcuts.
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