From feedle at feedle.net Wed May 1 16:41:18 2002 From: feedle at feedle.net (C. Sullivan) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 23:41:18 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [buug] X with two mice/keyboards.. Message-ID: Does anybody out there un BUUGland have experience using XFree86 4.x with two mice concurrently? I have some stupid questions about XFree 4's config file that I can't find answers to in the usual places.. please E-Mail me offlist. Thanks, Feedle From jrcow97 at yahoo.com Wed May 1 17:12:58 2002 From: jrcow97 at yahoo.com (Jerry Cheung) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 17:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] ethernet config problems Message-ID: <20020502001258.11310.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, I recently installed a Slackware 8.0 on some old hardware I found, and one problem I have is with the ethernet card. It is a 1992 3Com 3c509-TPO ISA card. I don't know too much about hardware, so when I tried to look it all up, it gave me some headaches. I think the card is PnP(not sure), and I learned Linux is not PnP aware, and the way to go around that is to use isapnptools. I need some instructions about how to get the card detected at boot and usable. Thanks in advance! :) Jerry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From itz at speakeasy.org Wed May 1 19:39:00 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 01 May 2002 19:39:00 -0700 Subject: [buug] ethernet config problems In-Reply-To: <20020502001258.11310.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020502001258.11310.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <86pu0fclyz.fsf@speakeasy.org> Jerry> Hi everyone, I recently installed a Slackware 8.0 on some old Jerry> hardware I found, and one problem I have is with the ethernet Jerry> card. It is a 1992 3Com 3c509-TPO ISA card. I don't know too Jerry> much about hardware, so when I tried to look it all up, it gave Jerry> me some headaches. I think the card is PnP(not sure), and I Jerry> learned Linux is not PnP aware, and the way to go around that Jerry> is to use isapnptools. I need some instructions about how to Jerry> get the card detected at boot and usable. In a nutshell: 1/ pnpdump > foo 2/ sensible-editor foo 3/ mv foo /etc/isapnp.conf 4/ echo "isapnp /etc/isapnp.conf" >> /etc/rc 5/ echo "modprobe 3c509 io=0xwhatever irq=0xsomething" >> /etc/rc where the exact details of everything except 1 and 3 depends on Slackware does things, which I have long forgot (editors available? uses SysV style init or One Big File? modular kernel?) Which part do you have the most questions about? :-) Someone else will probably be able to help you. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 To many people, "Unix security" may seem to be an oxymoron. -Garfinkel & Spafford, _Practical Unix Security_ From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed May 1 20:32:47 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 20:32:47 -0700 Subject: [buug] ethernet config problems In-Reply-To: <86pu0fclyz.fsf@speakeasy.org> References: <20020502001258.11310.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> <86pu0fclyz.fsf@speakeasy.org> Message-ID: <20020502033247.GP18590@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ian Zimmerman (itz at speakeasy.org): > In a nutshell: > > 1/ pnpdump > foo > > 2/ sensible-editor foo > > 3/ mv foo /etc/isapnp.conf > > 4/ echo "isapnp /etc/isapnp.conf" >> /etc/rc > > 5/ echo "modprobe 3c509 io=0xwhatever irq=0xsomething" >> /etc/rc Personally, I just get ahold of the 3C5X9 Etherdisk utilities, and disable PnP mode. It's a lot less trouble. From sobolak at myrealbox.com Wed May 1 23:16:20 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 23:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] ethernet config problems In-Reply-To: <20020502001258.11310.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020501231305.F65371-100000@magenta.planetshwoop.com> > Hi everyone, > I recently installed a Slackware 8.0 on some old > hardware I found, and one problem I have is with the > ethernet card. It is a 1992 3Com 3c509-TPO ISA card. > I don't know too much about hardware, so when I tried > to look it all up, it gave me some headaches. I think > the card is PnP(not sure), and I learned Linux is not > PnP aware, and the way to go around that is to use > isapnptools. I need some instructions about how to > get the card detected at boot and usable. > Don't know if you're really keen on running Slackware, but I have an ISA network card that was never recognized properly until I went to Mandrake. Sometimes in order to get it right (in my experience) you had to know the memory address of the card (e.g. 0x320) as well as which IRQ it is using. I spent/wasted hours configuring this with SuSe, but it worked out of the box on Mandrake. YMMV. If you have more specific questions I'm sure some of us could help you - we just need more details. brian -- This is how I think: http://www.planetshwoop.com/blog/ Brian Sobolak sobolak at myrealbox.com From nick at zork.net Wed May 1 23:27:36 2002 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 23:27:36 -0700 Subject: [buug] ethernet config problems In-Reply-To: <20020501231305.F65371-100000@magenta.planetshwoop.com> References: <20020502001258.11310.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com> <20020501231305.F65371-100000@magenta.planetshwoop.com> Message-ID: <20020502062736.GW694@zork.net> begin Brian Sobolak quotation: > Don't know if you're really keen on running Slackware, but I have an > ISA network card that was never recognized properly until I went to > Mandrake. Sometimes in order to get it right (in my experience) you > had to know the memory address of the card (e.g. 0x320) as well as > which IRQ it is using. I spent/wasted hours configuring this with > SuSe, but it worked out of the box on Mandrake. YMMV. I keep forgetting that some folks continue to use the kernels from the OS installer. I always think of those as bootstraps. -- INFORMATION GLADLY GIVEN BUT SAFETY REQUIRES AVOIDING UNNECESSARY CONVERSATION end 01234567 <- The amazing* indent-o-meter! ^ (*: Indent-o-meter may not actually amaze.) From jrcow97 at yahoo.com Thu May 2 12:19:28 2002 From: jrcow97 at yahoo.com (Jerry Cheung) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Re: ethernet config problems In-Reply-To: <200205021443.HAA19512@weak.org> Message-ID: <20020502191928.77337.qmail@web11508.mail.yahoo.com> First attempt with be to just configure it ISA PnP like Ian said so I don't have to pull the card out, and put it in the machine with dos to disable PnP. > In a nutshell: > > 1/ pnpdump > foo > > 2/ sensible-editor foo > > 3/ mv foo /etc/isapnp.conf > > 4/ echo "isapnp /etc/isapnp.conf" >> /etc/rc > > 5/ echo "modprobe 3c509 io=0xwhatever irq=0xsomething" >> /etc/rc >Personally, I just get ahold of the 3C5X9 Etherdisk >utilities, >and disable PnP mode. It's a lot less trouble. This sounds like a good possibility. I found the ultility and I'll try it out tonight. After disabling PnP, how would linux recognize the ISA? Would it detect at boot? >I spent/wasted hours configuring this with SuSe, but >it worked out of the box on Mandrake. Well, a friend went through quite a bit of trouble to get me the slackware isos, and I like the system so far, so I'm not planning on switching anytime soon. I'd like to try all the distros though. I haven't noticed a lot of differences between Slack and RH besides, pkgtool VS RPM, and where the files are kept. I like pkgtool better than RPM. Simple to use for a newbie like me. Haven't had dependency problems so far either, a real plus cause that really made me pull out my hair :) Thanks everyone ;) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu May 2 12:41:28 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:41:28 -0700 Subject: [buug] Re: ethernet config problems In-Reply-To: <20020502191928.77337.qmail@web11508.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200205021443.HAA19512@weak.org> <20020502191928.77337.qmail@web11508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020502194128.GJ18590@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Jerry Cheung (jrcow97 at yahoo.com): > This sounds like a good possibility. I found the ultility and I'll try > it out tonight. After disabling PnP, how would linux recognize the > ISA? Would it detect at boot? You bet. I've used lots of 3C509b cards with Linux, this way. They're great old cards. The original 3C509 had more chips and no PnP rubbish -- just CMOS-adjustable IRQ and I/O settings, like the "b" replacement. Either one is fine to use with Linux, if you have ISA slots and don't need 100 Mbit. ftp://ftp.3com.com/pub/NIC/3c509/ Somewhat annoyingly, I believe the current versions will install and write out to blank floppies only from MS-Windows on a hard drive. Thereafter, however, they can be stored on *ix boxen as dd images. If 3Com had Clue One, they'd have done this for us. (I may do it, one day -- if I still care about ISA ethernet cards.) For that matter, a Linux maintenance floppy with the open-source 3c5x9utils programs would be really handy, too. http://packages.debian.org/stable/net/3c5x9utils.html That includes diag and setup utilities, but I have no idea if they include the ability to toggle PnP. Whereas, 3Com's 3C5X9CFG.EXE program for DOS does. If you happen to try the Linux 3C5x9 utilities, please let me know if you find out about that. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu May 2 13:04:03 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:04:03 -0700 Subject: [buug] Re: ethernet config problems In-Reply-To: <20020502194128.GJ18590@linuxmafia.com> References: <200205021443.HAA19512@weak.org> <20020502191928.77337.qmail@web11508.mail.yahoo.com> <20020502194128.GJ18590@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020502200403.GL18590@linuxmafia.com> Quoting myself: > For that matter, a Linux maintenance floppy with the open-source > 3c5x9utils programs would be really handy, too. > > http://packages.debian.org/stable/net/3c5x9utils.html > > That includes diag and setup utilities, but I have no idea if they > include the ability to toggle PnP. Whereas, 3Com's 3C5X9CFG.EXE > program for DOS does. Not surprisingly, they turn out on examination to be yet another Donald Becker creation: http://www.scyld.com/diag/ The setup program is claimed to be able to set specific IRQ and I/O assignments from the command line. Which _seems_ to suggest disabling of PnP mode, but that is untested by me. (Note that Becker gives source code and ultra-simple compilation instructions right on the Web page.) All of the old 3C509b cards in my used-parts box had PnP disabled via 3Com's DOS utility and got set to IRQ10, I/O 300h, years ago. From jrcow97 at yahoo.com Fri May 3 11:53:24 2002 From: jrcow97 at yahoo.com (Jerry Cheung) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Re: ethernet config problems Message-ID: <20020503185324.8550.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> Hey everyone, I got the dos 3C5X9cfg.exe and ran it to collect more stats about the card. In fact, the card is older than I thought (still in good condition though) The information I collected was 3Com 3c509 TPO EtherLink III 16-bit ISA NIC NIC type - TP-Only Manufactured - 4-25-1990 :) I/O base address - 300H Interrupt - 10 ...sorry, but it turns out it's not PnP... >For that matter, a Linux maintenance floppy with the >open-source >3c5x9utils programs would be really handy, too. > >http://packages.debian.org/stable/net/3c5x9utils.html> > >That includes diag and setup utilities, but I have no >idea if they >include the ability to toggle PnP. Whereas, 3Com's >3C5X9CFG.EXE >program for DOS does. >Not surprisingly, they turn out on examination to be >yet another Donald >Becker creation: > >http://www.scyld.com/diag/ > >The setup program is claimed to be able to set >specific IRQ and I/O >assignments from the command line. Which _seems_ to >suggest disabling >of PnP mode, but that is untested by me. (Note that >Becker gives >source >code and ultra-simple compilation instructions right >on the Web page.) Thanks, good to have :) I'll try both of them out tonight and tell how it comes out tommorow. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From nickmdf at tsoft.com Fri May 3 08:54:18 2002 From: nickmdf at tsoft.com (Nick Sophinos) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:54:18 -0400 Subject: [buug] Absurd job posting? Message-ID: Hey all, Per our discussion last night unrealistic job postings, this one struck me as odd. John - as an embedded C developer, are you also a J2EE expert (seeing that the two disiplines are so closely related)? See below (from Monster): US-CA-San Jose-J2EE/Embedded Engineer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- We are a high-speed broadband Internet development company. We are currently searching for a J2EE developer with a background in Embedded development. The right person will have a strong J2EE with 4-5 years of high availability Java development. Must also have about 10 years of experience in Embedded C/C++ development. The ability to develop at both the application level and the embedded level is required. - Nick From jammer at weak.org Fri May 3 12:15:34 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 12:15:34 -0700 Subject: [buug] Absurd job posting? In-Reply-To: ; from nickmdf@tsoft.com on Fri, May 03, 2002 at 11:54:18AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20020503121534.A32273@weak.org> Heh... I know of J2EE, and a couple of coworkers have written some trivia apps to run on some cell phones with J2ME capability, but I wouldn't call myself an expert. That would invite people to ask me to do Java development, which I am loathe to do. :) As far as the job requirements, I find it amusing, especially since J2EE was a new thing back at JavaOne in 1999; they were selling Palm V's at fire sale rates ($199) to demonstrate the J2ME VM. HotSpot was a new thing, and high availabililty Java was an oxymoron. The company I was working for (one of the Big 6, that recently spun off their IT consulting division), had just implemented a brand new time tracking system for all 30,000 consultants. The pages were served by a farm of IIS machines, with some big Sun iron running the back end, using J2EE and Oracle (I believe they had 6 E10ks, with 6 more ready to roll out). I got called in because they were having problems with the backend servers crashing. After looking at things for a while (and flying out to New Jersey *shudder*), we observed a couple things: 1) it would die about 20 minutes after the biweekly load spike and 2) the "load spike" really peaked at 1 transaction per second. That's right. The server was dying during garbage collection, after handling what amounts to a piddling amount of transactions. And then there was the one and only customer contract I worked on during my tenure. It was a fleet management system for a large shipping container company. They had spend about a year and a half on the design by the time I got there. We were _just_ starting the first hints of implementation, while they went and scrapped the design and started again. I forget the J2EE implementation we were using, but it was quite immature. We met with the company, and they basically asked us which features were "really important" so that they could get all the bugs worked out in those parts first. After 8 months of dealing with that crappy software, and dealing with the politics of trying to get off that project, I quit the company. My life is much happier now. "Java free is the way to be..." Remember, this was back in '99. I'd be very suprised if they could find anyone with 4-5 years of Java server experience, given that back in '97-'98, the Java language itself was still a moving target. *sigh* Rant mode off. It's noon already? Where did the time go? -Jon On Fri, May 03, 2002 at 11:54:18AM -0400, Nick Sophinos wrote: > Per our discussion last night unrealistic job postings, this one struck me > as > odd. John - as an embedded C developer, are you also a J2EE expert (seeing > that > the two disiplines are so closely related)? > > See below (from Monster): > > > US-CA-San Jose-J2EE/Embedded Engineer > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > We are a high-speed broadband Internet development company. > We are currently searching for a J2EE developer with a background in > Embedded development. > The right person will have a strong J2EE with 4-5 years of high availability > Java development. > Must also have about 10 years of experience in Embedded C/C++ development. > The ability to > develop at both the application level and the embedded level is required. > > > > - Nick > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri May 3 12:52:04 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 12:52:04 -0700 Subject: [buug] Re: ethernet config problems In-Reply-To: <20020503185324.8550.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020503185324.8550.qmail@web11503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020503195204.GI13000@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Jerry Cheung (jrcow97 at yahoo.com): > Hey everyone, I got the dos 3C5X9cfg.exe and ran it to > collect more stats about the card. In fact, the card > is older than I thought (still in good condition > though) > > The information I collected was > 3Com 3c509 TPO EtherLink III 16-bit ISA NIC > NIC type - TP-Only > Manufactured - 4-25-1990 :) > I/O base address - 300H > Interrupt - 10 > > ...sorry, but it turns out it's not PnP... So, wait: What's the symptom you're encoutering, again? You were saying that one distribution automatically found the card and another didn't, or what? I'm unclear, now, on the nature of your problem. [Rick consults the list archive's back messages.] OK, you're doing Slackware 8.0. Your initial message said you needed help with Linux isapnptools, which is why we ended up going on a wild goose chase. This should illustrate for you the reason why you, the person seeking help, should always take care not to overdefine your problem. You _should_ have just told us the symptom, what you did to address it, what the machine did when you tried that, and asked for any suggestions. _Instead_, you posted a (wrong) guess as to the area your problem lay in, and asked for help chasing down your theory. Now, can you see why that was a bad idea? None of that activity actually helped you. Possibly useful to you in the future: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html You said: > I need some instructions about how to get the card detected at boot > and usable. Obvious question: What's telling you that the card isn't detected? What happens when you do "/sbin/ifconfig -a"? Are you familiar enough with setup of ISA cards that you're not encountering an IRQ or I/O base address conflict at the hardware level? You can check that by running the "test" routine in the 3C5X9CFG.EXE utility. Everything but the "echo" test (which requires a special cable setup) should test OK. If it doesn't, you probably have another device trying to grab the same IRQ and/or I/O base address, and should adjust the 3Com card's settings to eliminate the conflict. But _if_ you've used the 3Com card using the same hardware settings on a different Linux distribution, without problems, then that hardware-resource conflict seems unlikely. -- Cheers, "Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?" Rick Moen -- Steven Wright rick at linuxmafia.com From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Fri May 3 17:21:11 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 17:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020504002111.84591.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> Dear Buug, You are either cursed or blessed. I am moving into an apartment in Berkeley today and will therefore be attending more meetings. You will recognize me because I'm the one with the monkey sock puppet. Bob ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From feedle at feedle.net Fri May 3 20:51:35 2002 From: feedle at feedle.net (C. Sullivan) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 03:51:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [buug] Absurd job posting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 May 2002, Nick Sophinos wrote: > Hey all, > > Per our discussion last night unrealistic job postings, this one struck me > as > odd. John - as an embedded C developer, are you also a J2EE expert (seeing > that > the two disiplines are so closely related)? > > See below (from Monster): [snip] I kinda wish I was there to relate this story. It's much funnier in person when I gesticulate wildly... I once had the pleasure of interviewing programmer candidates back in 1997 for a small web development house. We dealt with a couple of differnet recruiters, one being a fairly well known one with a long history of aerospace recruiting. They actually had the balls to send us a candidate who claimed on his resume to have ten years of Perl CGI programming experience. In 1997. To have ten years of Perl programming experience would have been incredible. To have ten years' experience with CGI would have been.. well, it would have involved a time machine and some interesting interpretations of Einstien's Theories. So, we bring the guy in for an interview. I'm third (and last) to interview this candidate. Nobody leads on that we're "aware" of is resume faux pas. He walks into my office.. I make sure that I have the old copy of the Camel book signed by Randall (I'll tresure it always!) plainly obvious. Interview goes okay, he seems like a mid-level knowledge programmer. He certainly dosen't impress me with his Perl skills, but then again, Perl is a language I use when I have to.. it's not my primary language. So, I drop the bomb. "So, how's Larry doing?" I ask. "Larry? Larry who?" is his reply. "I don't know anybody named Larry." "Says here you've been programming in Perl for 10 years, right?" I ask. "Yes," is his reply. "And you don't know any guy named Larry. Larry Wall, specifically." "Uh..." A slight shoulder shrug was the most response I got. I won't relate the rest of the story (partially because I think I used language that might not be appropriate for a family forum), but suffice to say we hired a candidate from another agency. -Fedl From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Sun May 5 13:21:19 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 16:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [buug] [CalLUG-announce] Eric S. Raymond to speak Monday (fwd) Message-ID: I have tennis practice so I won't be attending but thought that others might be interested. Claude ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 13:16:43 -0700 From: callug-announce-admin at brain.CS.Berkeley.EDU Reply-To: callug-announce at brain.CS.Berkeley.EDU To: callug-announce at brain.CS.Berkeley.EDU Subject: [CalLUG-announce] Eric S. Raymond to speak Monday Open source advocate, developer and author Eric S. Raymond will be speaking tomorrow, Monday May 6th, at 6pm in the Wozniak Lounge (4th floor) of Soda Hall on the UC Berkeley campus, in an event co-sponsored by CalLUG and the Computer Science Undergraduate Association (CSUA). Raymond, often referred to by his initials ESR, is a leading advocate for open-source software. His paper "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" is a classic analysis of the success of open-source methods, and he is president of the Open Source Initiative. Raymond is also a prolific developer, making major contributions to GNU Emacs and the Linux kernel, and maintaining projects ranging from fetchmail to the terminfo database and the Jargon File. Refreshments will be served. The Wozniak Lounge is at the north end of Soda Hall's fourth floor. Turn right after coming in through the east (LeRoy avenue) entrance, and go to the end of the hall. Directions to Soda Hall are available on CalLUG's web site at http://www-callug.cs.berkeley.edu/directions-soda.html _______________________________________________ Callug-announce mailing list Callug-announce at callug.cs.berkeley.edu http://www-callug.cs.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/callug-announce From Luis at paycom.net Sun May 5 13:38:36 2002 From: Luis at paycom.net (Luis) Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 13:38:36 -0700 Subject: [buug] [CalLUG-announce] Apache Server References: Message-ID: <00bb01c1f474$d4b4ffe0$b2a97942@pacbell.net> Hello all, I totally forgot that I was part of this group until know. Well I have a simple question. I'm running redhat 7.2 at home on a P4 1gig of memory. I would like to host my own web site with a user name and password. Where would I find information regarding how to set it up. I'm a newbie so a simple one would help me or something that I could understand Thank you --Luis From nickmdf at tsoft.com Sun May 5 11:09:23 2002 From: nickmdf at tsoft.com (Nick Sophinos) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:09:23 -0400 Subject: [buug] [CalLUG-announce] Apache Server In-Reply-To: <00bb01c1f474$d4b4ffe0$b2a97942@pacbell.net> Message-ID: Hello Luis, As a person who has done what you want to do with Apache, my suggestion is to first be decent at using Linux. "Running Linux" by O'Reilly is a good book to help. This book also contains basic networking info too. apache.org has good documentation for installing and configuring apache. On good book that I still refer to regarding Apache is "Adminsitering Apache" published by McGraw-Hill. It contains some good bash scripts for various deployment scenarios. - Nick -----Original Message----- From: buug-admin at weak.org [mailto:buug-admin at weak.org]On Behalf Of Luis Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 4:39 PM To: Claude Rubinson; buug at weak.org Subject: Re: [buug] [CalLUG-announce] Apache Server Hello all, I totally forgot that I was part of this group until know. Well I have a simple question. I'm running redhat 7.2 at home on a P4 1gig of memory. I would like to host my own web site with a user name and password. Where would I find information regarding how to set it up. I'm a newbie so a simple one would help me or something that I could understand Thank you --Luis _______________________________________________ Buug mailing list Buug at weak.org http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug From will_sargent at yahoo.com Sun May 5 14:43:40 2002 From: will_sargent at yahoo.com (Will Sargent) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 14:43:40 -0700 Subject: [buug] [CalLUG-announce] Apache Server In-Reply-To: <00bb01c1f474$d4b4ffe0$b2a97942@pacbell.net> Message-ID: > I'm running redhat 7.2 at home on a P4 1gig of memory. > > I would like to host my own web site with a user name and password. Where > would I find information regarding how to set it up. I'm a newbie so a > simple one would help me or something that I could understand If you install Apache, I recommend you try the tutorial: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/tutorials.html There are some authentication modules which can help you out once you get it installed. http://httpd.apache.org/docs/howto/auth.html Note that as soon as you install Apache and open a port up on your system, you're going to be subject to all manner of attacks. I've been up five days with a raw IP address and no visibility and I get portscanned with random crack scripts daily. Will. From Luis at paycom.net Sun May 5 14:57:46 2002 From: Luis at paycom.net (Luis) Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 14:57:46 -0700 Subject: [buug] [CalLUG-announce] Apache Server References: Message-ID: <010c01c1f47f$e4215c20$b2a97942@pacbell.net> Thank you very much for the help and links. I installed portsentry on my linux box (rh7.2) 2 days ago. I have to say that you were right about the portscanning. I had about 50 scans one night. Thank you once again. What do you think I should learn next ? if you don't mind me asking. --Luis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Sargent" To: "Luis" ; "Claude Rubinson" ; Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 2:43 PM Subject: RE: [buug] [CalLUG-announce] Apache Server > > I'm running redhat 7.2 at home on a P4 1gig of memory. > > > > I would like to host my own web site with a user name and password. Where > > would I find information regarding how to set it up. I'm a newbie so a > > simple one would help me or something that I could understand > > If you install Apache, I recommend you try the tutorial: > > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/tutorials.html > > There are some authentication modules which can help you out once you get it > installed. > > http://httpd.apache.org/docs/howto/auth.html > > Note that as soon as you install Apache and open a port up on your system, > you're going to be subject to all manner of attacks. I've been up five days > with a raw IP address and no visibility and I get portscanned with random > crack scripts daily. > > Will. > > From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Sun May 5 17:26:05 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 20:26:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [buug] boot without keyboard? Message-ID: Hey all, I'm hoping that someone might be able to help me out with an annoying problem with a Compaq workstation. The machine's BIOS refuses to boot the computer if it doesn't detect a keyboard (if I recall correctly, it gives a 386 error). I'm wondering there's a way around that? I've gone through the BIOS and can't find anything (it's a custom Compaq BIOS; very restricted). It's a Win2k machine that I use only rarely (specifically, for a statistical analysis program that would cost me $500 under Unix -- $500 that I don't have right now). Essentially, it's a headless box: I only use it through VNC. But since it won't boot without a keyboard, I need to switch the keyboard cables back and forth every time that I need to use it. A serious pain in the ass considering how often Windows wants to be rebooted. My guess is that I'm just going to have to buy a used keyboard to keep plugged in all the time. But that conflicts with my aesthetic sensibility; if someone has another suggestion, I'm all ears. Thanks, Claude p.s. The machine has a bootable CD-ROM but no floppy drive, so replacing the BIOS isn't an option. (It's one of these "corporate-friendly" workstations. No expandability except via the USB, serial, and parallel ports. Very cute, however.) From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun May 5 17:56:09 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 17:56:09 -0700 Subject: [buug] boot without keyboard? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020506005609.GG13000@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Claude Rubinson (cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu): > Hey all, I'm hoping that someone might be able to help me out with an > annoying problem with a Compaq workstation. The machine's BIOS refuses to > boot the computer if it doesn't detect a keyboard (if I recall correctly, > it gives a 386 error). I'm wondering there's a way around that? It's a limitation of the motherboard hardware, and obviously has nothing to do with Unix. So, this question really belongs on a hardware mailing list or newsgroup, rather than a Unix one, but I'll give you the same answer you'd get there: You'll need on that machine at boot time either a keyboard or something with the electrical presence of a keyboard, such as a KVM box. Or else a different motherboard. Obviously the problem cannot be solved in software, since it occurs before anything but firmware is loaded. -- Cheers, "Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?" Rick Moen -- Steven Wright rick at linuxmafia.com From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Sun May 5 18:06:55 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 21:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [buug] boot without keyboard? In-Reply-To: <20020506005609.GG13000@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 May 2002, Rick Moen wrote: > You'll need on that machine at boot time either a keyboard or something > with the electrical presence of a keyboard, such as a KVM box. Or else > a different motherboard. > > Obviously the problem cannot be solved in software, since it occurs > before anything but firmware is loaded. > Well, crud. That's what I figured; I was just hoping that someone knew something that I didn't. (In fact, once-upon-a-time a KVM switch is exactly what I used.) Claude From will_sargent at yahoo.com Sun May 5 22:55:07 2002 From: will_sargent at yahoo.com (Will Sargent) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:55:07 -0700 Subject: [buug] boot without keyboard? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hey all, I'm hoping that someone might be able to help me out with an > annoying problem with a Compaq workstation. The machine's BIOS refuses to > boot the computer if it doesn't detect a keyboard (if I recall correctly, > it gives a 386 error). I'm wondering there's a way around that? I've gone > through the BIOS and can't find anything (it's a custom Compaq BIOS; very > restricted). > My guess is that I'm just going to have to buy a used keyboard to keep > plugged in all the time. But that conflicts with my aesthetic > sensibility; if someone has another suggestion, I'm all ears. 10 bucks for a compusa keyboard; make sure that the bios is locked down with a password, strip off all the keys, and disable ctrl-alt-delete as a synonym for 'shutdown -r now' and that should be it. Will. From will_sargent at yahoo.com Sun May 5 22:55:06 2002 From: will_sargent at yahoo.com (Will Sargent) Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:55:06 -0700 Subject: [buug] [CalLUG-announce] Apache Server In-Reply-To: <010c01c1f47f$e4215c20$b2a97942@pacbell.net> Message-ID: > I installed portsentry on my linux box (rh7.2) 2 days ago. I have to say > that you were right about the portscanning. > > I had about 50 scans one night. > > Thank you once again. What do you think I should learn next ? if you don't > mind me asking. I think a thorough understanding of security should be required for anyone wanting to learn Unix skills; there really isn't that much to setting up a firewall (there are only two kinds; IP filter and application level), but there's all kinds of stuff you can do to keep track of your system and ensure that if it is hacked, at least you know about it. Much of the security monitoring equipment will also tell you about the mechanics of the system; what are the weak points, how inetd works, why the whole idea of root isn't always a good one... that kind of thing. I'm still learning myself, but it's a good confidence building activity. Will. From white at ua.fm Tue May 7 08:15:43 2002 From: white at ua.fm (Alex Ivanoff) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:15:43 +0300 Subject: [buug] content writing for magazines Message-ID: <281539378048.20020507181543@extrasy.net> Hello everybody, I've got some articles written on FreeBSD, Unix and Networking (Cisco, Lucent equipment) topics. Does anybody know some magazine, journal or publishing agency which may be interested in the articles on these topics? I'd love to talk to theirs Editorial team. I've heard some on-line magazines are interested in such materieal, but I've got no contacts. Thanks for help. ps. Please, answer directly to my e-mail, I'm not regular reader and subscriber of this mail-list. Thanks. -- With best regards, Alex Ivanoff From jammer at weak.org Tue May 7 09:54:17 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:54:17 -0700 Subject: [buug] content writing for magazines In-Reply-To: <281539378048.20020507181543@extrasy.net>; from white@ua.fm on Tue, May 07, 2002 at 06:15:43PM +0300 References: <281539378048.20020507181543@extrasy.net> Message-ID: <20020507095417.A4437@weak.org> Doh! I meant to hit the "Reject" button on this one. Sorry folks. -Jon On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 06:15:43PM +0300, Alex Ivanoff wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I've got some articles written on FreeBSD, Unix and Networking (Cisco, > Lucent equipment) topics. Does anybody know some magazine, journal or > publishing agency which may be interested in the articles on these > topics? I'd love to talk to theirs Editorial team. I've heard some > on-line magazines are interested in such materieal, but I've got no > contacts. > > Thanks for help. > > ps. Please, answer directly to my e-mail, I'm not regular reader and > subscriber of this mail-list. Thanks. > > -- > With best regards, Alex Ivanoff > > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Tue May 7 12:20:10 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] apache logformat question Message-ID: <20020507192010.7261.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> This is an apache question. The answer should have been simple...I have been researching on yahoo, google, and apache.org for about an hour now, and I can't find the answer. Background: In the apache custom log format for access_log, there is an option to display total seconds elapsed for each request to apache. The option is "%T". The Question: Is there a way of showing the total "milli"-seconds elapsed instead of seconds? (all my "%T" values are zero, I need a more precise number) Related: There are perl modules for benchmarking...but I don't want these. I want the total milliseconds to display in the apache "access_log". Also related: There is an apache benchmark tool that gives you milliseconds...but again, I need the total milliseconds to show up in the access_log. Thanks, Mr. Monkey Sock Puppet ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From ms at speakeasy.net Tue May 7 12:34:07 2002 From: ms at speakeasy.net (Michael Salmon) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:34:07 -0700 Subject: [buug] apache logformat question In-Reply-To: <20020507192010.7261.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020507192010.7261.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020507123407.D75477@speakeasy.net> In apache 2 there is the ability to log microsends per request with %D format. If you're stuck using 1.3 then you're gonna have to use a module to do it. You can write one if you know C in about an hour if you've never done it before. ms- On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 12:20:10PM -0700, Bob Read wrote: > This is an apache question. The answer should have > been simple...I have been researching on yahoo, > google, and apache.org for about an hour now, and I > can't find the answer. > > Background: > > In the apache custom log format for access_log, there > is an option to display total seconds elapsed for each > request to apache. The option is "%T". > > The Question: > > Is there a way of showing the total "milli"-seconds > elapsed instead of seconds? (all my "%T" values are > zero, I need a more precise number) > > Related: > > There are perl modules for benchmarking...but I don't > want these. I want the total milliseconds to display > in the apache "access_log". > > Also related: > > There is an apache benchmark tool that gives you > milliseconds...but again, I need the total > milliseconds to show up in the access_log. > > Thanks, > Mr. Monkey Sock Puppet > > > > ===== > ----------------------------------------- > Bob Read > Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer > cell (510)-703-1634 > unixjavabob at yahoo.com > ----------------------------------------- > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Tue May 7 12:40:05 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] apache logformat question In-Reply-To: <20020507123407.D75477@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20020507194005.68799.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> (gulp!) I've been RTFM'd!! Ooohh, the shame! --- Michael Salmon wrote: > In apache 2 there is the ability to log microsends > per request > with %D format. If you're stuck using 1.3 then > you're gonna have to use > a module to do it. You can write one if you know C > in about an hour > if you've never done it before. > > ms- > > On Tue, May 07, 2002 at 12:20:10PM -0700, Bob Read > wrote: > > This is an apache question. The answer should > have > > been simple...I have been researching on yahoo, > > google, and apache.org for about an hour now, and > I > > can't find the answer. > > > > Background: > > > > In the apache custom log format for access_log, > there > > is an option to display total seconds elapsed for > each > > request to apache. The option is "%T". > > > > The Question: > > > > Is there a way of showing the total > "milli"-seconds > > elapsed instead of seconds? (all my "%T" values > are > > zero, I need a more precise number) > > > > Related: > > > > There are perl modules for benchmarking...but I > don't > > want these. I want the total milliseconds to > display > > in the apache "access_log". > > > > Also related: > > > > There is an apache benchmark tool that gives you > > milliseconds...but again, I need the total > > milliseconds to show up in the access_log. > > > > Thanks, > > Mr. Monkey Sock Puppet > > > > > > > > ===== > > ----------------------------------------- > > Bob Read > > Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer > > cell (510)-703-1634 > > unixjavabob at yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > > http://health.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Buug mailing list > > Buug at weak.org > > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com From jammer at weak.org Wed May 8 14:50:10 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:50:10 -0700 Subject: [buug] Cool looking job posting... Message-ID: <20020508145009.C15202@weak.org> Here's one for you jobless types that I saw while poking around on Craigslist: http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/sad/3784079.html Seems like a cool company...the post closes with the statement: Bonus points for sending it [your resume] with an UNIX MUA. And the first question in the interview will be "What is an UNIX MUA?" -Jon From sobolak at myrealbox.com Sun May 12 10:57:29 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 10:57:29 -0700 Subject: [buug] Cool looking job posting... In-Reply-To: <20020508145009.C15202@weak.org> Message-ID: On 5/8/02 2:50 PM, "Jon McClintock" wrote: > Here's one for you jobless types that I saw while poking around on Craigslist: > > http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/sad/3784079.html > > Seems like a cool company...the post closes with the statement: > > Bonus points for sending it [your resume] with an UNIX MUA. And the first > question in the interview will be "What is an UNIX MUA?" Reminds me of a job I saw on craigslist once that listed as one of the technologies you had to be familiar with before applying was "RTFM". Heh. brian -- From itz at speakeasy.org Mon May 20 20:37:36 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 20 May 2002 20:37:36 -0700 Subject: [buug] spades Message-ID: <86elg6i327.fsf@speakeasy.org> Does anyone on the list play NetSpades? Actually even the live variant is of interest :) -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Mon May 20 22:11:58 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 01:11:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [buug] grep weirdness Message-ID: I'm having some weirdness with grep and I'm wondering if anyone's seen anything like this before. I did find a work-around but the original problem still stands. In a nutshell, I'm recieving a "grep: Regular expression too big" error. I did a Google search but I only got four hits and they all said the same thing: "Split your regex into multiple statements, put them in a file and use the '-f' flag." In my case, however, the statements are already in a file and they couldn't be any simpler. The script: grep -ftmp mrw where tmp is a single-column file (there's a tab character at the end of each line): ^CASEID ^1 ^2 ^3 ... ^8916 and mrw is a two-column file delimited by a single tab: CASEID relative_person_weight 1 2.2096 2 1.25369 3 0.734946 ... ... 8916 0.701728 The workaround is to decrease the size of "tmp." For my purposes, I was able to use a subset of 1,111 records (i.e., regexs) which works fine. I haven't bothered to determine what the absolute limit is. Anyone have any idea of what's going on? It doesn't seem like this should trigger a "Regular expression too big" error. Claude From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Mon May 20 22:59:04 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 01:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [buug] environmental variables Message-ID: A quick followup to a discussion at the last meeting... Using an environmental variable to track the creation and destruction of environmental variables was definiely the right way to go. Not only was it drop dead simple but it ended up solving a lot related issues (especially regarding tracking state). Thanks to all! Claude From sobolak at myrealbox.com Tue May 21 06:40:04 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 06:40:04 -0700 Subject: [buug] spades Message-ID: <1021988404.5f518ff8sobolak@myrealbox.com> NetSpades? Are those eShovels? (j/k) brian -----Original Message----- From: Ian Zimmerman To: buug at weak.org Date: 20 May 2002 20:37:36 -0700 Subject: [buug] spades Does anyone on the list play NetSpades? Actually even the live variant is of interest :) -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. _______________________________________________ Buug mailing list Buug at weak.org http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug -- Brian Sobolak http://www.planetshwoop.com/ sobolak at myrealbox.com From itz at speakeasy.org Tue May 21 08:33:37 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 21 May 2002 08:33:37 -0700 Subject: [buug] grep weirdness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86wutx4isu.fsf@speakeasy.org> Claude> grep -ftmp mrw Claude> where Claude> tmp is a single-column file (there's a tab character at the end of each Claude> line): Claude> ^CASEID Claude> ^1 Claude> ^2 Claude> ^3 Claude> ... Claude> ^8916 Claude> and Claude> mrw is a two-column file delimited by a single tab: Claude> CASEID relative_person_weight Claude> 1 2.2096 Claude> 2 1.25369 Claude> 3 0.734946 Claude> ... ... Claude> 8916 0.701728 Any reason why tmp cannot be simply the following? ^CASEID ^[0-9]+ And, given that _all_ records of your sample file seem to match the one of the original regexes, what problem are you really trying to solve here? -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Tue May 21 12:11:28 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [buug] grep weirdness In-Reply-To: <86wutx4isu.fsf@speakeasy.org> Message-ID: On 21 May 2002, Ian Zimmerman wrote: itz> Any reason why tmp cannot be simply the following? itz> itz> ^CASEID itz> ^[0-9]+ itz> itz> And, given that _all_ records of your sample file seem to match the itz> one of the original regexes, what problem are you really trying to itz> solve here? D'oh! My description of "tmp" is confusing. You're correct in that when there's a one-to-one match between the regexes in the pattern file "tmp" and the values of the subset in "mrw", a paste or join command will merge the files together correctly (and, in fact, that's what I generally do in such a circumstance). Where a paste or join command will not work is when there are fewer regexes in "tmp" than there are records in "mrw". It's in this case that I turn to the grep statement. (And this should explain why simply matching on numeric digits isn't feasible.) (I've moved the description of the files to the bottom of this email for reference.) First, let me say that (as I noted in the original email) I've already solved my particular problem. My email, therefore, is more of a general inquiry: "Why does grep run fine when there are 1,000 regexes in the pattern file but raise an error when there are 8,000?" Okay, let me try to explain what's going on and why I'm doing things the way that I am... This is all part of the dataset cleaning and manipulation for my thesis. The original dataset is 8,916 respondents; the subset that I'm using is somewhere around 1,100 respondents (I'm still in the process of subsetting my data, so I don't yet know what the final size of the subset will be. Right now, it's at 1,110 respondents.) The variable "relative_person_weight" was part of the original dataset; I needed to create it myself. I don't think that I need to go into the details of how the variable was calculated as it just further complicate this discussion; however, it is important to know that it needed to be calculated from the full dataset of 8,916 respondents. So, basically, what I've got are two datasets: a full dataset _with_ the relative_person_weight variable and a subset _without_ the relative_person_weight variable. And what I need to do is merge this variable into the subset (for each record which is present in the subset.) Essentially, this is the same thing as an inner-join in SQL. Make sense? Hopefully, this explains the problem. I solve it by using a grep statement (paste and join won't work since there are a different number of records in each dataset). Specifically, I use grep to identify records that match on a particular unique identifier (i.e., CASEID). I use the CASEIDs from the subset as patterns to match against the full dataset (with the variable to merge in). Generally, this works fine. However, yesterday I discovered that if the subset is over a certain size, I'll get a "grep: Regular expression too big" error. I'm not sure exactly what this size limit is -- 1,110 records works fine, 8,916 doesn't. The reason that I discovered this is that yesterday I happended to use my grep statement against a full dataset instead of a paste. That shouldn't matter, however, since either should give the same results. grep, however, didn't. I'm just wondering why it didn't. Claude p.s. For those at last week's BUUG who asked why I just don't used a database to manage my dataset, this is one reason why. I'll often realize that I've dropped a variable from a previous revision of the subset that I actually need. Then I have to merge in the variable from the previous revision to whatever subset I'm currently working on. It's true that if the dataset was in a database that I could use SQL join commands to accomplish this; however, if I don't have the previous revision, that's of no help. By keeping my dataset as a text file, I can keep it under revision control and thereby jump back to an earlier version of the dataset at any moment. I've currently got a total of 62 revisions across multiple branches -- in my experience, revision control is definitely the way to go. ------------------------- grep -ftmp mrw where tmp is a single-column file (there's a tab character at the end of each line): ^CASEID ^1 ^2 ^3 ... ^8916 <-- this value could be 8915, 8914, 8913, something relatively large. also note that all CASEIDs might not be present. for example, could be missing values 4, 345, and 6437. and mrw is a two-column file delimited by a single tab: CASEID relative_person_weight 1 2.2096 2 1.25369 3 0.734946 ... ... 8916 0.701728 From itz at speakeasy.org Tue May 21 12:54:38 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 21 May 2002 12:54:38 -0700 Subject: [buug] grep weirdness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86bsb9e0ox.fsf@speakeasy.org> itz> Any reason why tmp cannot be simply the following? itz> itz> ^CASEID ^[0-9]+ itz> itz> And, given that _all_ records of your sample file seem to match itz> the one of the original regexes, what problem are you really itz> trying to solve here? Claude> D'oh! My description of "tmp" is confusing. You're correct Claude> in that when there's a one-to-one match between the regexes in Claude> the pattern file "tmp" and the values of the subset in "mrw", Claude> a paste or join command will merge the files together Claude> correctly (and, in fact, that's what I generally do in such a Claude> circumstance). Claude> Where a paste or join command will not work is when there are Claude> fewer regexes in "tmp" than there are records in "mrw". It's Claude> in this case that I turn to the grep statement. (And this Claude> should explain why simply matching on numeric digits isn't Claude> feasible.) Claude> (I've moved the description of the files to the bottom of this Claude> email for reference.) Claude> First, let me say that (as I noted in the original email) I've Claude> already solved my particular problem. My email, therefore, is Claude> more of a general inquiry: "Why does grep run fine when there Claude> are 1,000 regexes in the pattern file but raise an error when Claude> there are 8,000?" Let me comment on your actual problem first. I wouldn't use an SQL database to do this, but I would use a Berkeley DB "database" (really just a disk based hash lookup table), rather then grep. Perl (and probably Python, for the reptile lovers among us) would be a perfect interface language. Claude> Hopefully, this explains the problem. I solve it by using a Claude> grep statement (paste and join won't work since there are a Claude> different number of records in each dataset). Specifically, I Claude> use grep to identify records that match on a particular unique Claude> identifier (i.e., CASEID). I use the CASEIDs from the subset Claude> as patterns to match against the full dataset (with the Claude> variable to merge in). Generally, this works fine. However, Claude> yesterday I discovered that if the subset is over a certain Claude> size, I'll get a "grep: Regular expression too big" error. Claude> I'm not sure exactly what this size limit is -- 1,110 records Claude> works fine, 8,916 doesn't. Maybe this lovely bit of regex.c (which is linked into GNU grep) will shed some light. > /* This is not an arbitrary limit: the arguments which represent offsets > into the pattern are two bytes long. So if 2^16 bytes turns out to > be too small, many things would have to change. */ > /* Any other compiler which, like MSC, has allocation limit below 2^16 > bytes will have to use approach similar to what was done below for > MSC and drop MAX_BUF_SIZE a bit. Otherwise you may end up > reallocating to 0 bytes. Such thing is not going to work too well. > You have been warned!! */ > #if defined _MSC_VER && !defined WIN32 > /* Microsoft C 16-bit versions limit malloc to approx 65512 bytes. > The REALLOC define eliminates a flurry of conversion warnings, > but is not required. */ > # define MAX_BUF_SIZE 65500L > # define REALLOC(p,s) realloc ((p), (size_t) (s)) > #else > # define MAX_BUF_SIZE (1L << 16) > # define REALLOC(p,s) realloc ((p), (s)) > #endif > /* Extend the buffer by twice its current size via realloc and > reset the pointers that pointed into the old block to point to the > correct places in the new one. If extending the buffer results in it > being larger than MAX_BUF_SIZE, then flag memory exhausted. */ In other words, it's essentially a legacy 16-bit code issue. However, note that even if this is fixed, it will only work for backtracking greps (like GNU grep and other GNU tools based on the regex library). Other regular expression tools may be based on NFA -> DFA conversion, and for such the number of DFA states, unless the expression is hand-optimized, is exponential in the size of the problem. So I'd say that a regular expression approach is still a poor match for your situation, in general. See my suggestion above. Cheers, -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From nbuchanan at onebox.com Thu May 23 23:40:45 2002 From: nbuchanan at onebox.com (Nick Buchanan) Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 23:40:45 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? Message-ID: <20020524064045.NJXK4635.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? I.E. Solaris; HP-UX; AIX? I'm new to the group. It would be great to share experiences with others on these platforms. Particularly Solaris. Any poor implemtatations, great ones? Experiences using choice hardware ( E10k, Sunfire E15k, HDS9960, Superdome ) ? -- Nick Buchanan nbuchanan at onebox.com - email (415) 430-2161 x5259 - voicemail/fax From itz at speakeasy.org Fri May 24 00:03:31 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 24 May 2002 00:03:31 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <20020524064045.NJXK4635.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> References: <20020524064045.NJXK4635.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> Message-ID: <86wutuf2nw.fsf@speakeasy.org> Nick> Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? I.E. Solaris; Nick> HP-UX; AIX? I'm new to the group. It would be great to share Nick> experiences with others on these platforms. Particularly Nick> Solaris. Any poor implemtatations, great ones? Experiences using Nick> choice hardware ( E10k, Sunfire E15k, HDS9960, Superdome ) ? I have some Solaris experience, but I am not using it now. And I have never used the high-end machines you're interested in (only SPARCStations and Ultras). -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From sobolak at myrealbox.com Fri May 24 07:07:10 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 07:07:10 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? Message-ID: <1022249230.58603ff8sobolak@myrealbox.com> (stdisclaimer: poor line wrapping due to crappy webmailer) Nick> Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? I.E. Solaris; Nick> HP-UX; AIX? I'm new to the group. It would be great to share Nick> experiences with others on these platforms. Particularly Nick> Solaris. Any poor implemtatations, great ones? Experiences using Nick> choice hardware ( E10k, Sunfire E15k, HDS9960, Superdome ) ? Nick, you know what they say about guys with really big Unix hardware. ;^) Umm, I work on a Sunfire here frequently. When I was at HP I worked on HP-UX (the smoldering, worthless pile of poo that it is). Anything in particular you were wondering about? Still prefer my 600Mhz FreeBSD box at home. brian -- Brian Sobolak http://www.planetshwoop.com/ sobolak at myrealbox.com From psoltani at ultradns.com Fri May 24 08:52:35 2002 From: psoltani at ultradns.com (Patrick Soltani) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 08:52:35 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? Message-ID: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAF53956C@ultra-exchange.UltraDNS.com> Hi All, I work with Sun/Solaris, mainly 420Rs, and same sentiment as Brain on HP; I don't want to dilute it by speaking my mind ;-). And I also prefer my dual Pentium III running FreeBSD at home. All of the firewalls at work converted to FreeBSD and yet to see any problems! IMHO, the size of the box don't matter, but the OS itself does. Regards, Patrick Soltani. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Sobolak [mailto:sobolak at myrealbox.com] > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 7:07 AM > To: itz at speakeasy.org > Cc: buug at weak.org > Subject: Re: Re: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this > group? > > > > (stdisclaimer: poor line wrapping due to crappy webmailer) > > Nick> Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? I.E. Solaris; > Nick> HP-UX; AIX? I'm new to the group. It would be great to share > Nick> experiences with others on these platforms. Particularly > Nick> Solaris. Any poor implemtatations, great ones? Experiences using > Nick> choice hardware ( E10k, Sunfire E15k, HDS9960, Superdome ) ? > > Nick, you know what they say about guys with really big Unix > hardware. ;^) > > Umm, I work on a Sunfire here frequently. When I was at HP I > worked on HP-UX (the smoldering, worthless pile of poo that > it is). Anything in particular you were wondering about? > > Still prefer my 600Mhz FreeBSD box at home. > > brian > -- > Brian Sobolak > http://www.planetshwoop.com/ > sobolak at myrealbox.com > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From atporter at primate.net Fri May 24 10:10:53 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:10:53 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <20020524064045.NJXK4635.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> References: <20020524064045.NJXK4635.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> Message-ID: <20020524171053.GA30440@primate.net> On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 11:40:45PM -0700, Nick Buchanan wrote: > Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? I.E. Solaris; HP-UX; > AIX? I'm new to the group. It would be great to share experiences with > others on these platforms. Particularly Solaris. Any poor implemtatations, > great ones? Experiences using choice hardware ( E10k, Sunfire E15k, HDS9960, > Superdome ) ? You name it, I've probably played with it... AIX, HPUX, Solaris, SCO, NextStep, Coherent, Tru64, Irix, Unixware, PyramidOS, NCR Unix... probably a few more that I've managed to forget. When you start working with commercial UN*X you really start to realize just how much you take for granted with free software. Things like a useable shell, compilers, strong community support and useful documentation just for starters. But once you've installed a pile of GNU/Free Software, most of the commercial stuff feels just fine. From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Fri May 24 10:29:25 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <20020524064045.NJXK4635.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> Message-ID: <20020524172925.17313.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> Nick, Here is my "clip'n'cut" guide to the unixes...hopefully the other "buug"-ers will add to it: AIX--for companies with IBM as corporate standard Solaris--the ultimate in high price, service, toolkits, services, vendors, and compatible apps IRIX--graphics, graphics, graphics HP-UX--could not quite afford solaris..got this instead Sequent/SCO--science geeks (faster math?) Compaq--(DG-UX)--Bizarro version of HP-UX Dec-alpha--another OSF1 clone headed downhill NCR--dead, I think. For more information, I remember a book that had good diagrams explaining the "evolution of unix", I think it was O'Reilly's "essential system administration". For my money, the commercial system with the least headaches for sysadmins has been solaris for many years now. Big Corporations will sometimes invest in an open source box for firewalls and routers...but the "business back end" is another story. Big Corporations choose commercial unixes for the following reasons: 1) required by vendors 2) corporate standard 3) business relationship/partnership agreement (full range of services offered with one phone call to the sales guy) Rarely are the opinions of the various technocrats involved as important as the above 3...remember, its a business decision! And non-Enron business decisions tend to be conservative. As time goes on and the open source unixes "prove their stability", we will see sales drop for the commericial unixes....but this drop will be slow...big companies don't WANT to migrate their accounting software from HP-UX to FreeBSD and they won't for many years to come...imagine the costs to retrain the staff or pay a consultant! ouch! Why rock the boat if the budget has already been allocated?, etc, etc. Later, Bob --- Nick Buchanan wrote: > > Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? > I.E. Solaris; HP-UX; > AIX? I'm new to the group. It would be great to > share experiences with > others on these platforms. Particularly Solaris. Any > poor implemtatations, > great ones? Experiences using choice hardware ( > E10k, Sunfire E15k, HDS9960, > Superdome ) ? > > > -- > Nick Buchanan > nbuchanan at onebox.com - email > (415) 430-2161 x5259 - voicemail/fax > > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From atporter at primate.net Fri May 24 10:36:37 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:36:37 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <20020524172925.17313.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020524064045.NJXK4635.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> <20020524172925.17313.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020524173637.GB30440@primate.net> On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 10:29:25AM -0700, Bob Read wrote: > IRIX--graphics, graphics, graphics That's a huge disservice to SGI/Irix. Keep in mind that SGI makes some simply *huge* systems -- some of the fastest number crunchers out there. One application I built on Irix had to have 256 serial ports (talk about a nightmare). From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri May 24 10:39:26 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:39:26 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <20020524172925.17313.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020524064045.NJXK4635.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> <20020524172925.17313.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020524173926.GZ22068@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bob Read (unixjavabob at yahoo.com): > AIX Aix and pains. You will not be SMITted with it. > Solaris Slowaris. > IRIX "Remember when we were relevant? Meanwhile, look at the pretty pictures." > HP-UX Hockey pucks. > SCO alt.sex.bondage.sco-unix > Compaq--(DG-UX) "We're Ultrix. We're OSF/1. We're Digital Unix. We're... oh, forget it." > NCR "As an OS vendor, we make good cash registers." -- Cheers, The difference between common sense and paranoia is that common sense Rick Moen is thinking everyone is out to get you. That's normal; they are. rick at linuxmafia.com Paranoia is thinking they're conspiring. -- J. Kegler From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Fri May 24 10:47:18 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <20020524173637.GB30440@primate.net> Message-ID: <20020524174718.45991.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com> No offence intended, Aaron...I made some hasty generalizations that I hoped would provoke some interesting dialogue. I'm glad you replied! Any OS that supports 256 serial interfaces deserves some respect! SGI is also known to be on the cutting edge of developing unique or one-of-a-kind systems, ie hardware innovations (copper chips) and specialized interfaces. For example, SGI ran an NMR machine I used in college. But the graphic capabilities of SGI certainly do blow the competitors out of the water...as I believe all the animation studios use it, as did all the designers at my last company, Nintendo...in fact, the game cube motherboard/cpu was designed by SGI. Keep the thread alive! --- Aaron T Porter wrote: > On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 10:29:25AM -0700, Bob Read > wrote: > > > IRIX--graphics, graphics, graphics > > That's a huge disservice to SGI/Irix. Keep in mind > that SGI makes > some simply *huge* systems -- some of the fastest > number crunchers out there. > One application I built on Irix had to have 256 > serial ports (talk about a > nightmare). > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com From jan at caustic.org Fri May 24 10:47:51 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <20020524173637.GB30440@primate.net> Message-ID: <20020524103946.F80765-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Fri, 24 May 2002, Aaron T Porter wrote: > On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 10:29:25AM -0700, Bob Read wrote: > > > IRIX--graphics, graphics, graphics > > That's a huge disservice to SGI/Irix. Keep in mind that SGI makes > some simply *huge* systems -- some of the fastest number crunchers out there. > One application I built on Irix had to have 256 serial ports (talk about a > nightmare). typically those were actually Cray systems (the Big Iron), and very high end SGIs (Origin 2000, Onyx 2, etc). Those SGIs are using Cray developed technologies to improve the ability of handling the large amount of CPUs (nodes) in their high end machines. the SGI systems tend to be used for rendering in heavy duty visualisation labs (take the numbers crunched by yee olde 1280 node cray T3E, pump them through the 256 node Origin 2000. which makes pretty pictures..) and in some animation studios (pixar, for example). check out http://www.cray.com/company/video/index.html for a video on Cray's latest baby. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From atporter at primate.net Fri May 24 10:50:03 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:50:03 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <20020524174718.45991.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020524173637.GB30440@primate.net> <20020524174718.45991.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020524175003.GC30440@primate.net> On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 10:47:18AM -0700, Bob Read wrote: > No offence intended, Aaron...I made some hasty > generalizations that I hoped would provoke some > interesting dialogue. I'm glad you replied! Any OS > that supports 256 serial interfaces deserves some > respect! None taken, just trying to point out that SGI has many more uses (at least as long as they stay afloat). > But the graphic capabilities of SGI certainly do blow > the competitors out of the water...as I believe all > the animation studios use it, as did all the designers > at my last company, Nintendo...in fact, the game cube > motherboard/cpu was designed by SGI. This really doesn't seem to be true anymore. Lots of smaller shops have been moving to Windows. A few google searches will turn up stories about Pixar moving to OS/X and plenty of people moving to Linux as well. SGI is just too damn expensive. From nbuchanan at onebox.com Fri May 24 15:19:00 2002 From: nbuchanan at onebox.com (Nick Buchanan) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:19:00 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? Message-ID: <20020524221900.URGZ2131.mta10.onebox.com@onebox.com> Each flavor has a place, I would agree that an HA system running Oracle or SAP/R3 should be on a commercial system. Edge systems however are a different animal. This is where Linux and BSD flavors shine. I would run webservers and routers on these. Does it make sense to run Apache on a $15,000 420R when a PC running Linux or BSD will out perform it? AIX - Snake Oil - Ever had a hardware failure on a RS/6000? Not fun. Smit? For god sake . . . Does this OS even have true CLI ? HP-UX - Awesone hardware, the OS is horrid. Solaris - Veritile and robust - As for the harware, HORIBLE reliabillity, great service from SUN, though $$$. Sequent - Bad, just bad. I hate supporting Seq stuff, although the support is top notch, I love that they will fix just about anything remotely. DEC/Compaq - Man pages for dummies ! Good luck geeting decent support from Compaq. Pryamid - Who the hell owns this platform now? -- Nick Buchanan nbuchanan at onebox.com - email (415) 430-2161 x5259 - voicemail/fax ---- Bob Read wrote: > Nick, > Here is my "clip'n'cut" guide to the > unixes...hopefully the other "buug"-ers will add to > it: > > AIX--for companies with IBM as corporate standard > Solaris--the ultimate in high price, service, > toolkits, services, vendors, and compatible apps > IRIX--graphics, graphics, graphics > HP-UX--could not quite afford solaris..got this > instead > Sequent/SCO--science geeks (faster math?) > Compaq--(DG-UX)--Bizarro version of HP-UX > Dec-alpha--another OSF1 clone headed downhill > NCR--dead, I think. > > For more information, I remember a book that had > good diagrams explaining the "evolution of unix", I > think it was O'Reilly's "essential system > administration". > > For my money, the commercial system with the least > headaches for sysadmins has been solaris for many > years now. > > Big Corporations will sometimes invest in an open > source box for firewalls and routers...but the > "business back end" is another story. Big > Corporations choose commercial unixes for the > following reasons: > > 1) required by vendors > 2) corporate standard > 3) business relationship/partnership agreement (full > range of services offered with one phone call to the > sales guy) > > Rarely are the opinions of the various technocrats > involved as important as the above 3...remember, its a > business decision! And non-Enron business decisions > tend to be conservative. As time goes on and the open > source unixes "prove their stability", we will see > sales drop for the commericial unixes....but this drop > will be slow...big companies don't WANT to migrate > their accounting software from HP-UX to FreeBSD and > they won't for many years to come...imagine the costs > to retrain the staff or pay a consultant! ouch! Why > rock the boat if the budget has already been > allocated?, etc, etc. > > Later, > Bob > > > --- Nick Buchanan wrote: > > > > Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? > > I.E. Solaris; HP-UX; > > AIX? I'm new to the group. It would be great to > > share experiences with > > others on these platforms. Particularly Solaris. Any > > poor implemtatations, > > great ones? Experiences using choice hardware ( > > E10k, Sunfire E15k, HDS9960, > > Superdome ) ? > > > > > > -- > > Nick Buchanan > > nbuchanan at onebox.com - email > > (415) 430-2161 x5259 - voicemail/fax > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Buug mailing list > > Buug at weak.org > > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > > ===== > ----------------------------------------- > Bob Read > Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer > cell (510)-703-1634 > unixjavabob at yahoo.com > ----------------------------------------- > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience > http://launch.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From jan at caustic.org Fri May 24 15:39:47 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <20020524221900.URGZ2131.mta10.onebox.com@onebox.com> Message-ID: <20020524153630.Y80765-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Fri, 24 May 2002, Nick Buchanan wrote: > Each flavor has a place, I would agree that an HA system running Oracle > or SAP/R3 should be on a commercial system. Edge systems however are > a different animal. This is where Linux and BSD flavors shine. I would > run webservers and routers on these. Does it make sense to run Apache > on a $15,000 420R when a PC running Linux or BSD will out perform it? more so, a Netra T1 will. assuming, of course, you're an all solaris house. > Solaris - Veritile and robust - As for the harware, HORIBLE reliabillity, > great service from SUN, though $$$. i actually dissagree about the hardware not being up to par. i've found sun hardware to be very reliable, and very stable, not to mention easy to upgrade and abuse. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From nbuchanan at onebox.com Fri May 24 16:33:28 2002 From: nbuchanan at onebox.com (Nick Buchanan) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:33:28 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? Message-ID: <20020524233328.VCUC2131.mta10.onebox.com@onebox.com> Fascinating . . . . What kind of hardware are you taking about? Come to think of it the problems have been localized to a select set of hardware. I see the most failures on E3500 - E6500 system boards and CPU's and IBM HDs. Most of the failures are e-cache parity related, but in the sombra class system boards and CPU's they mirrored the cache to prevent this kind of system panic. Don't get me wrong SUN hardware is stable, but not nearly as reliable as HP or IBM hardware. -- Nick Buchanan nbuchanan at onebox.com ---- "f.johan.beisser" wrote: > On Fri, 24 May 2002, Nick Buchanan wrote: > > > Each flavor has a place, I would agree that an HA system running > Oracle > > or SAP/R3 should be on a commercial system. Edge systems however > are > > a different animal. This is where Linux and BSD flavors shine. I > would > > run webservers and routers on these. Does it make sense to run Apache > > on a $15,000 420R when a PC running Linux or BSD will out perform > it? > > more so, a Netra T1 will. assuming, of course, you're an all solaris > house. > > > Solaris - Veritile and robust - As for the harware, HORIBLE reliabillity, > > great service from SUN, though $$$. > > i actually dissagree about the hardware not being up to par. i've found > sun hardware to be very reliable, and very stable, not to mention easy > to > upgrade and abuse. > > > -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ > http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org > "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse > of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From jan at caustic.org Fri May 24 16:52:44 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <20020524233328.VCUC2131.mta10.onebox.com@onebox.com> Message-ID: <20020524163500.Y80765-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Fri, 24 May 2002, Nick Buchanan wrote: > Fascinating . . . . > > What kind of hardware are you taking about? Come to think of it the problems > have been localized to a select set of hardware. I see the most failures > on E3500 - E6500 system boards and CPU's and IBM HDs. Most of the failures > are e-cache parity related, but in the sombra class system boards and > CPU's they mirrored the cache to prevent this kind of system panic. Don't > get me wrong SUN hardware is stable, but not nearly as reliable as HP > or IBM hardware. you obviously know more about the internals than i do ;) mostly, i've delt with their lower end systems; sparcstation 5s and up. for most uses, these have been rock solid (i recently came in to a Sun IPX, it's currently handling my IPv6 traffic for the network, tough little bugger). what i've found, though, is that their hardware is more stable, easier to maintain, and generally of a higher quality than the equivelent PC. of course, you pay for it through serviceing, or at initial purchace. Reliability wise, i've had more IBM systems fail for unexplainable reasons (tape libraries in particular), than most other hardware manufacturers. Of course, this might simply be due to how ubiquious it was. of course, i prefer IBM laptops.. go figure. i can't speak for HP, having not really handled anything of theirs. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From sobolak at myrealbox.com Fri May 24 21:10:50 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 21:10:50 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? Message-ID: <1022299850.b8b18ff8sobolak@myrealbox.com> > i can't speak for HP, having not really handled anything of theirs. I had to spend a lot of time recently learning how HP peripherals interact with the HP-UX kernel. The engineering behind the HP equipment was amazing. I couldn't say that I've looked quite as carefully at Sun or IBM stuff, but the HP disc arrays, high-end machines and storage were really, really impressive. Of course as someone already mentioned, the problem was that you had to use HP-UX. I think HP is really making a lot of progress towards having customers run Linux systems, but it will also be second to HP-UX in the near future. I don't think major corporations are ready to run their 2TB Oracle databases or PeopleSoft apps on Linux yet. As a funny aside about HP: when I started there, it took them two days to get me a computer. Ouch! Why should it takes two days to give a contractor a computer at a /major computer manufacturer/. brian -- Brian Sobolak http://www.planetshwoop.com/ sobolak at myrealbox.com From jan at caustic.org Fri May 24 21:14:05 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 21:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <1022299850.b8b18ff8sobolak@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20020524211244.A80765-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Fri, 24 May 2002, Brian Sobolak wrote: > As a funny aside about HP: when I started there, it took them two days > to get me a computer. Ouch! Why should it takes two days to give a > contractor a computer at a /major computer manufacturer/. that's not very suprising, actually. the larger any organisation gets, the more likely there's going to be beaurocracy between the hiring/contracting people, and the IT department. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From jammer at weak.org Fri May 24 21:20:02 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 21:20:02 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? In-Reply-To: <1022299850.b8b18ff8sobolak@myrealbox.com>; from sobolak@myrealbox.com on Fri, May 24, 2002 at 09:10:50PM -0700 References: <1022299850.b8b18ff8sobolak@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20020524212002.A20947@weak.org> On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 09:10:50PM -0700, Brian Sobolak wrote: > As a funny aside about HP: when I started there, it took them two days to get me a computer. Ouch! Why should it takes two days to give a contractor a computer at a /major computer manufacturer/. That's nothing. When I started my internship at HP back in '97, it took them a good week or two to get me a computer. A used one at that. -Jon From nbuchanan at onebox.com Sat May 25 00:58:50 2002 From: nbuchanan at onebox.com (Nick Buchanan) Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 00:58:50 -0700 Subject: [buug] Are there any commercial Unix users in this group? Message-ID: <20020525075850.YEZN2131.mta10.onebox.com@onebox.com> Yeah a lot can be said for HP hardware, the only failure I have seen in the year and a half I have had to deal with it was a failed system board on a ancient yellowed D class. Speaking of bureaucracy, I have to cut a trouble ticket to myself for every thing I do, even if I just need to chmod a file. Then I need to spend 10 minutes explaining why I had to do it. I spend more swimming through bureaucracy than I do resolving problems or implementing solutions. -- Nick Buchanan nbuchanan at onebox.com ---- "Brian Sobolak" wrote: > > > > i can't speak for HP, having not really handled anything of theirs. > > I had to spend a lot of time recently learning how HP peripherals interact > with the HP-UX kernel. The engineering behind the HP equipment was > amazing. I couldn't say that I've looked quite as carefully at Sun > or IBM stuff, but the HP disc arrays, high-end machines and storage > were really, really impressive. > > Of course as someone already mentioned, the problem was that you had > to use HP-UX. I think HP is really making a lot of progress towards > having customers run Linux systems, but it will also be second to HP-UX > in the near future. I don't think major corporations are ready to > run their 2TB Oracle databases or PeopleSoft apps on Linux yet. > > As a funny aside about HP: when I started there, it took them two > days to get me a computer. Ouch! Why should it takes two days to > give a contractor a computer at a /major computer manufacturer/. > > brian > -- > Brian Sobolak > http://www.planetshwoop.com/ > sobolak at myrealbox.com > From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Thu May 30 10:40:45 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Search Engines for your own website...recommendations, anyone? In-Reply-To: <20020525075850.YEZN2131.mta10.onebox.com@onebox.com> Message-ID: <20020530174045.99932.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Buug, Topic: Website "search" capability. I need better searching for 3-4 websites running on solaris and linux. I'd like to have the search results ordered by "% match", with a "progress bar" widget showing the % match. Any recommendations? In related news, I helped a friend install a good one a year ago, but I can't remember the name...google searches for these tools are not helping me. Thanks, Bob ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com From qingjuan at wistar.upenn.edu Fri May 31 10:46:31 2002 From: qingjuan at wistar.upenn.edu (Qingjuan Gu) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:46:31 -0400 Subject: [buug] HP LaserJet 2100 TN Printer dirver on Tru64 Message-ID: <200205311346.AA103547134@wistar.upenn.edu> Hello, I have a HP LaserJet 2100 Series PS TN printer, and Alpha unix workstation running Tru64 V5.1. My printcap file about this printer: lp2|2|bioinfo:\ :af=/usr/adm/lp2acct:\ :br#9600:\ :ct=tcp:\ :fc#0177777:\ :fs#03:\ :ic:\ :lf=/usr/adm/lp2err:\ :lp=@130.91.8.19/port_9100:\ :mc#20:\ :mx#0:\ :nc:\ :pl#66:\ :pw#80:\ :sd=/usr/spool/lpd2:\ :sh:\ :sf:\ :xc#0177777:\ :xf=/usr/lbin/xf:\ :xs#044000: lp2 will be drived by Tru64 directly, it can not work properly. While in the same printcap file, there is another entry lp1 which will drive the same printer through another SGI server. lp1|1|lp|hp2100:\ :af=/usr/adm/lp1acct:\ :lf=/usr/adm/lp1err:\ :lp=:\ :rm=odin.wistar.upenn.edu:\ :rp=hp2100:\ :sh:\ :ps:\ :sd=/usr/spool/lpd1: My question is if I have to install driver to use this printer, Has the tru64 v5.1 installed the printer driver specially for Hp LaserJet 2100 PS TN printer. How can I check it? Thank you verymuch in advance. Grace From sobolak at myrealbox.com Fri May 31 15:01:22 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:01:22 -0500 Subject: [buug] HP LaserJet 2100 TN Printer dirver on Tru64 Message-ID: <1022882482.534d9ff8sobolak@myrealbox.com> Sorry, but I think printcap files are beyond the scope of most mere mortals. Did you google? I did quickly and found this: http://www.tru64unix.compaq.com/printing/bsd.html and there's something mentioned there about a printconfig GUI application...you might look into that. You'd think with the HP-Compaq merger Tru64 and HP printers would be working PERFECTLY, but alas, I guess not. L8r, brian -----Original Message----- From: "Qingjuan Gu" To: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:46:31 -0400 Subject: [buug] HP LaserJet 2100 TN Printer dirver on Tru64 Hello, I have a HP LaserJet 2100 Series PS TN printer, and Alpha unix workstation running Tru64 V5.1. My printcap file about this printer: lp2|2|bioinfo:\ :af=/usr/adm/lp2acct:\ :br#9600:\ :ct=tcp:\ :fc#0177777:\ :fs#03:\ :ic:\ :lf=/usr/adm/lp2err:\ :lp=@130.91.8.19/port_9100:\ :mc#20:\ :mx#0:\ :nc:\ :pl#66:\ :pw#80:\ :sd=/usr/spool/lpd2:\ :sh:\ :sf:\ :xc#0177777:\ :xf=/usr/lbin/xf:\ :xs#044000: lp2 will be drived by Tru64 directly, it can not work properly. While in the same printcap file, there is another entry lp1 which will drive the same printer through another SGI server. lp1|1|lp|hp2100:\ :af=/usr/adm/lp1acct:\ :lf=/usr/adm/lp1err:\ :lp=:\ :rm=odin.wistar.upenn.edu:\ :rp=hp2100:\ :sh:\ :ps:\ :sd=/usr/spool/lpd1: My question is if I have to install driver to use this printer, Has the tru64 v5.1 installed the printer driver specially for Hp LaserJet 2100 PS TN printer. How can I check it? Thank you verymuch in advance. Grace _______________________________________________ Buug mailing list Buug at weak.org http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug -- Brian Sobolak http://www.planetshwoop.com/ sobolak at myrealbox.com From itz at speakeasy.org Fri May 31 16:59:53 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 31 May 2002 16:59:53 -0700 Subject: [buug] HP LaserJet 2100 TN Printer dirver on Tru64 In-Reply-To: <1022882482.534d9ff8sobolak@myrealbox.com> References: <1022882482.534d9ff8sobolak@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <86r8jr27ie.fsf@speakeasy.org> Grace> I have a HP LaserJet 2100 Series PS TN printer, and Alpha unix Grace> workstation running Tru64 V5.1. My printcap file about this printer: lp2|2|bioinfo:\ :af=/usr/adm/lp2acct:\ br#9600:\ ct=tcp:\ fc#0177777:\ fs#03:\ :ic:\ lf=/usr/adm/lp2err:\ lp=@130.91.8.19/port_9100:\ mc#20:\ :mx#0:\ nc:\ pl#66:\ pw#80:\ sd=/usr/spool/lpd2:\ sh:\ sf:\ :xc#0177777:\ xf=/usr/lbin/xf:\ xs#044000: Grace> lp2 will be drived by Tru64 directly, it can not work Grace> properly. Erm .. what does that mean? What are the symptoms? > Grace BTW, do we know you? This is the _Berkeley_ Unix user group. Berkeley as the location, not the BSD software .. I hope we don't have a misunderstanding here. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From itz at speakeasy.org Fri May 31 23:43:48 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 31 May 2002 23:43:48 -0700 Subject: [buug] Linux hacking question Message-ID: <86n0uf1ot7.fsf@speakeasy.org> Hi, how can I get the ID of the foreground process group for a terminal? Assume I am running with root privileges, but the terminal is _not_ my controlling terminal (in fact I am a daemon, so I have no controlling terminal). I tried pid_t foreground; ioctl(terminal_fd, TIOCGPGRP, &foreground); but it fails with ENOTTY, and in linux/drivers/char/tty_io.c I find this code: tiocgpgrp(struct tty_struct *tty, struct tty_struct *real_tty, pid_t *arg) { /* * (tty == real_tty) is a cheap way of * testing if the tty is NOT a master pty. */ if (tty == real_tty && current->tty != real_tty) return -ENOTTY; return put_user(real_tty->pgrp, arg); } so it's clear it that it fails in my case, root or not. Suggestions? -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive.