From webmaster at hawaiidakine.com Tue Nov 5 10:25:24 2002 From: webmaster at hawaiidakine.com (al plant) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 08:25:24 -1000 Subject: [buug] data showing as audio on cdrom Message-ID: <3DC80D14.5C5BC3D7@hawaiidakine.com> I have recently installed an IDE Sony CDRW on a FreeBSD box and it works fine using the audio command line for duplicating cd files. Audio CD's burn and run ok. When I down loaded a FreeBSD 4.7 ISO and tried to burn it to disk it seemed to work fine using this command. # burncd -f /dev/acd0c data nameoffile.iso fixate Mounting and looking at the files on the new CD it seems ok. However, when you go to use the cd to install FreeBSD on to a box an error occurs. "this seems to be an audio disk" Is what it says. Anybody know what I may be doing wrong here? I have installed from other cd's some made on other peoples boxes and some from FreeBSD.org and never had this error. Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii. Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX & Caldera Linux 2.4 & RedHat 7.2 Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043 From nkj at namodn.com Tue Nov 5 11:33:47 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:33:47 -0800 Subject: [buug] data showing as audio on cdrom In-Reply-To: <3DC80D14.5C5BC3D7@hawaiidakine.com>; from webmaster@hawaiidakine.com on Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 08:25:24AM -1000 References: <3DC80D14.5C5BC3D7@hawaiidakine.com> Message-ID: <20021105113347.E25375@namodn.com> Hi Al, On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 08:25:24AM -1000, al plant wrote: > I have recently installed an IDE Sony CDRW on a FreeBSD box and it works > fine using the audio command line for duplicating cd files. Audio CD's > burn and run ok. > > When I down loaded a FreeBSD 4.7 ISO and tried to burn it to disk it > seemed to work fine using this command. > > # burncd -f /dev/acd0c data nameoffile.iso fixate > > Mounting and looking at the files on the new CD it seems ok. > > However, when you go to use the cd to install FreeBSD on to a box an > error occurs. > > "this seems to be an audio disk" Is what it says. Try specifying that the ISO is 'data' # burncd -f /dev/acd0c data nameoffile.iso fixate - Nick Jennings From nkj at namodn.com Tue Nov 5 11:43:15 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:43:15 -0800 Subject: [buug] data showing as audio on cdrom In-Reply-To: <20021105113347.E25375@namodn.com>; from nkj@namodn.com on Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 11:33:47AM -0800 References: <3DC80D14.5C5BC3D7@hawaiidakine.com> <20021105113347.E25375@namodn.com> Message-ID: <20021105114315.G25375@namodn.com> Ok, thats what I get for answering questions before I've had my coffee. I swear your message didn't have 'data' in the command. Some phantom must have put it there! On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 11:33:47AM -0800, Nick Jennings wrote: > Hi Al, > > On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 08:25:24AM -1000, al plant wrote: > > I have recently installed an IDE Sony CDRW on a FreeBSD box and it works > > fine using the audio command line for duplicating cd files. Audio CD's > > burn and run ok. > > > > When I down loaded a FreeBSD 4.7 ISO and tried to burn it to disk it > > seemed to work fine using this command. > > > > # burncd -f /dev/acd0c data nameoffile.iso fixate > > > > Mounting and looking at the files on the new CD it seems ok. > > > > However, when you go to use the cd to install FreeBSD on to a box an > > error occurs. > > > > "this seems to be an audio disk" Is what it says. > > > Try specifying that the ISO is 'data' > > # burncd -f /dev/acd0c data nameoffile.iso fixate > > > - Nick Jennings > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Tue Nov 5 11:24:08 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:24:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] data showing as audio on cdrom In-Reply-To: <3DC80D14.5C5BC3D7@hawaiidakine.com> Message-ID: <20021105192408.11270.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com> > However, when you go to use the cd to install > FreeBSD on to a box an > error occurs. Please describe your install in more detail...are you installing directly from cd-rom? using floppies? After you power up the machine, how far does the install get? > # burncd -f /dev/acd0c data nameoffile.iso fixate That command looks OK to me...maybe try using a different brand of CD-R? I caught this on "man burncd"..ha! BUGS Probably, please report when found. ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From nkj at namodn.com Tue Nov 5 11:45:19 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 11:45:19 -0800 Subject: [buug] data showing as audio on cdrom In-Reply-To: <3DC80D14.5C5BC3D7@hawaiidakine.com>; from webmaster@hawaiidakine.com on Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 08:25:24AM -1000 References: <3DC80D14.5C5BC3D7@hawaiidakine.com> Message-ID: <20021105114519.H25375@namodn.com> On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 08:25:24AM -1000, al plant wrote: > > However, when you go to use the cd to install FreeBSD on to a box an > error occurs. > > "this seems to be an audio disk" Is what it says. > > Anybody know what I may be doing wrong here? I have installed from other > cd's some made on other peoples boxes and some from FreeBSD.org and > never had this error. Does this happen on more than one system (ie. more than one CD-ROM)? Have you verified the md5sum? - Nick Jennings From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Tue Nov 5 12:10:04 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 12:10:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] data showing as audio on cdrom In-Reply-To: <3DC81FBA.54408C0F@hawaiidakine.com> Message-ID: <20021105201004.45493.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> > You can mount the data cd's and they have the > correct files on them. The > install program for FreeBSD is the only thing that > is detecting them as > audio. Let's concentrate on the FreeBSD install program and forget about the CD for now. Please describe the steps that the install goes through...For example, something like this: 1) downloaded release files 4.6.2-Release and put them on CD using a windows machine (at work) 2) created floppies: fixit.flp, kern.flp, mfsroot.flp 3) set the BIOS to boot from floppy 4) put floppy disk kern.flp in floppy drive and rebooted ... That way, we could understand exactly how far the install is getting. Later, Bob ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From jan at caustic.org Tue Nov 5 13:02:46 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:02:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] data showing as audio on cdrom In-Reply-To: <20021105201004.45493.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021105130211.D30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Bob Read wrote: > 1) downloaded release files 4.6.2-Release and put > them on CD using a windows machine (at work) i would suggest using 4.7 over 4.6.2. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From psoltani at ultradns.com Tue Nov 5 14:13:36 2002 From: psoltani at ultradns.com (Patrick Soltani) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:13:36 -0800 Subject: [buug] data showing as audio on cdrom Message-ID: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAF5DDC92@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com> Most of the problems I have runinto burning cd iso images been from the timing issues. After tinkering a bit, I opted for the following fix: modify the kernel file and add the following options: #Posix P1003_1B real-time extensions options P1003_1B options _KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING # To add cdrecord real timing to the burner via POSIX options "_KPOSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING" options "_KPOSIX_VERSION"=199309 I believe the top 2 options are done automatically after 4.6 and the bottom 2 options I added when I was running 4.3 or 4.4; can't remember, but took care of the problems I had with burning iso images. It would burn, but won't boot off it. I could browse the cd, just won't boot. Just a reminder that you have to do make buildkernel and installkernel. Hope this helps and good Luck. Regards, Patrick Soltani. > -----Original Message----- > From: f.johan.beisser [mailto:jan at caustic.org] > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:03 PM > To: Bob Read > Cc: buug at weak.org; webmaster at hawaiidakine.com > Subject: Re: [buug] data showing as audio on cdrom > > > On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Bob Read wrote: > > > 1) downloaded release files 4.6.2-Release and put > > them on CD using a windows machine (at work) > > i would suggest using 4.7 over 4.6.2. > > > > -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ > http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org > "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for > my sham friends." -- Tom Waits > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Tue Nov 5 14:26:13 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:26:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] data showing as audio on cdrom In-Reply-To: <20021105130211.D30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20021105222613.24279.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> Yah, next chance I get, I'll be upgrading. Thanks for reminding me. Bob --- "f.johan.beisser" wrote: > On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Bob Read wrote: > > > 1) downloaded release files 4.6.2-Release and put > > them on CD using a windows machine (at work) > > i would suggest using 4.7 over 4.6.2. > > > > -------/ f. johan beisser > /--------------------------------------+ > http://caustic.org/~jan > jan at caustic.org > "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for > my sham friends." -- Tom Waits > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ From jan at caustic.org Tue Nov 5 14:28:18 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:28:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] data showing as audio on cdrom In-Reply-To: <20021105222613.24279.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021105142707.O30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Bob Read wrote: > Yah, next chance I get, I'll be upgrading. > Thanks for reminding me. anytime. i just recieved my OpenBSD 3.2 cdroms in the mail. upgrading may happen for those machines aswell. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From evans at ncseweb.org Tue Nov 5 14:35:09 2002 From: evans at ncseweb.org (Skip Evans) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 14:35:09 -0800 Subject: [buug] Recommend journal for newbies? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021105143428.01c7f948@mail.mindspring.com> Hey all, Can anyone recommend a sys admin Unix journal (maybe FreeBSD centric) that a newbie can use to help get up to speed? Thanks! Skip Evans Network Project Director National Center for Science Education 420 40th St, Suite 2 Oakland, CA 94609 510-601-7203 Ext. 308 510-601-7204 (fax) 800-290-6006 evans at ncseweb.org http://www.ncseweb.org NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. To sign up send: subscribe ncse your at email.address to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org From jan at caustic.org Tue Nov 5 14:51:02 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:51:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] Recommend journal for newbies? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021105143428.01c7f948@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20021105144259.B30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Skip Evans wrote: > Can anyone recommend a sys admin Unix journal (maybe > FreeBSD centric) that a newbie can use to help get up to > speed? www.daemonnews.org www.bsdtoday.com quite a bit out there. SA Mag is ok, at best, but sometimes tends to be less than informative, or little more than marketing dreck. outside of that, you may want to read up on various linux articles, since software tends to be fairly standard in installation and such between the platforms. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From allenshao at yahoo.com Wed Nov 6 23:18:20 2002 From: allenshao at yahoo.com (allen shao) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:18:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 Message-ID: <20021107071820.60540.qmail@web20418.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, This is my first time post onto the board. On X86PC Solaris, /usr filesystem should be mounted to c?t?d?s6 in /etc/vfstab. How come it is not in mine, and under the partition table, it is not there either? Anyone knows any unix user instant messenger group? Appreciate your help. al __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From jan at caustic.org Wed Nov 6 23:28:13 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 23:28:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 In-Reply-To: <20021107071820.60540.qmail@web20418.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021106232124.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, allen shao wrote: > This is my first time post onto the board. welcome. > On X86PC Solaris, /usr filesystem should be mounted to > c?t?d?s6 in /etc/vfstab. How come it is not in mine, > and under the partition table, it is not there either? first, it would help to know if you're using IDE or SCSI disks. it's very difficult to know much about your setup without you telling us about it. did you creating during the installation time? does it have space allocated? second, why are you using x86 Slowaris? that's roughly like giving a formula 1 car 85 octane fuel. it works, but it really kills performance. you may want to look at Sun's new Linux distrobution instead, since it should be compatable with most sun products. anything you could possibly need to run as x86 solaris will run in Linux or BSD on x86 anyway. > Anyone knows any unix user instant messenger group? i'd recommend #solaris on the EFNet IRC network, that might be a good start. > Appreciate your help. not much to give, bud. please give us more information. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From psoltani at ultradns.com Thu Nov 7 06:09:58 2002 From: psoltani at ultradns.com (Patrick Soltani) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 06:09:58 -0800 Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 Message-ID: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAF5DDCA0@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com> the default install has / partition on s0 and about 1.5 gig. Unless you have "custom installed" the os, you'd not get partitions for /usr, /tmp, /opt, etc. Regards, Patrick Soltani. > -----Original Message----- > From: allen shao [mailto:allenshao at yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:18 PM > To: buug at weak.org > Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 > > > Hi, > > This is my first time post onto the board. > > On X86PC Solaris, /usr filesystem should be mounted to > c?t?d?s6 in /etc/vfstab. How come it is not in mine, > and under the partition table, it is not there either? > > Anyone knows any unix user instant messenger group? > > Appreciate your help. > > al > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From nkj at namodn.com Thu Nov 7 14:13:47 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:13:47 -0800 Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 In-Reply-To: <20021106232124.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org>; from jan@caustic.org on Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 11:28:13PM -0800 References: <20021107071820.60540.qmail@web20418.mail.yahoo.com> <20021106232124.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20021107141347.F11186@namodn.com> On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 11:28:13PM -0800, f.johan.beisser wrote: > > second, why are you using x86 Slowaris? that's roughly like giving a > formula 1 car 85 octane fuel. it works, but it really kills performance. > you may want to look at Sun's new Linux distrobution instead, since it > should be compatable with most sun products. anything you could possibly > need to run as x86 solaris will run in Linux or BSD on x86 anyway. > It's interesting this should come up as I have recently been thinking of setting up a Solaris X86 system. The main reason I'd like to do this is to learn about Solaris administration without actually buying the hardware. Unfortunately the companies I've worked for have either had no Solaris equipment, or had other people to take care of the administration of these machines. It's been hard to get my foot in the door, so to speak, in the area of Solaris Systems Administrator (Or as the head hunters say it "UNIX Admin" and are never specific enough until I've already wasted too much time). Does anyone here use X86 Solaris? Is it a good way for cheapo's to learn about Solaris Systems? Having some familiarity with it, even if it's not professional will help greatly (not to mention the BSD and Linux experience I already have). - Nick Jennings From jan at caustic.org Thu Nov 7 14:14:27 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:14:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 In-Reply-To: <20021107141347.F11186@namodn.com> Message-ID: <20021107140012.M30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Nick Jennings wrote: > It's interesting this should come up as I have recently been thinking > of setting up a Solaris X86 system. The main reason I'd like to do > this is to learn about Solaris administration without actually buying > the hardware. Unfortunately the companies I've worked for have either > had no Solaris equipment, or had other people to take care of the > administration of these machines. It's been hard to get my foot in > the door, so to speak, in the area of Solaris Systems Administrator > (Or as the head hunters say it "UNIX Admin" and are never specific enough > until I've already wasted too much time). the problem is that Solaris x86 is "similar" to Solaris sparc, but not exactly the same. and i've never encountered it used in any production network. you'd be better served finding an older Sparc 5/10/20 to abuse. even then, though, the older ones will run Solaris 8 really slowly. > Does anyone here use X86 Solaris? Is it a good way for cheapo's to learn > about Solaris Systems? Having some familiarity with it, even if it's > not professional will help greatly (not to mention the BSD and Linux > experience I already have). see above. http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/sby/sys/6685333.html http://www.craigslist.org/sfo/eby/sys/6673653.html -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From brian at planetshwoop.com Thu Nov 7 14:32:21 2002 From: brian at planetshwoop.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:32:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 In-Reply-To: <20021107141347.F11186@namodn.com> Message-ID: <20021107142244.B31162-100000@magenta.planetshwoop.com> > Does anyone here use X86 Solaris? Is it a good way for cheapo's to learn > about Solaris Systems? Since the CDs were only $80, I took the plunge a few years ago and bought the x86 cds from Sun. In fact, I threw them out yesterday. The hardware support for that OS, especially if you're used to BSD or Linux, is very vanilla. I got the basic system up, but couldn't get XWindows to work without some work. To have that much pain to merely get crappy CDE wasn't worth it. I'd guess if you want to learn how Solaris works, find an old Sun box. They're not impossible to find...just need to do some searching. As for johan's comment that no one uses it in production, IIRC LMI.net (nee lanminds) in North Berkeley had a box that was x86 Solaris. I seem to remember when I would login to lanshark.lmi.net that it was x86 Solaris. (By the way Nick - if you want their professional opinion about using Solaris on x86, I'd look those guys up. They were way cool, way Linux friendly, and a great ISP.) brian -- This is how I think: http://www.planetshwoop.com/blog/ Brian Sobolak sobolak at myrealbox.com From atporter at primate.net Thu Nov 7 14:48:15 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:48:15 -0800 Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 In-Reply-To: <20021107140012.M30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> References: <20021107141347.F11186@namodn.com> <20021107140012.M30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20021107224815.GO22212@primate.net> On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 02:14:27PM -0800, f.johan.beisser wrote: > the problem is that Solaris x86 is "similar" to Solaris sparc, but not > exactly the same. and i've never encountered it used in any production > network. Ahh, that's because the people that use it are too embarrased to admit it. At one point E-Pinions was almost entirely Sol x86 based. It is really aweful stuff though. Support for 3-4 ethernet cards, 2-3 scsi cards, and very very few video cards last I messed with it (nearly 3 years now fortunately). I'd have to agree with the other advice here, to learn solaris, pick up a used Sun box. Thanks to greedy engineers and the dot-bomb you can get pretty amazing deals on Ultra workstations. Under $250 quite frequently on Craigslist and Ebay. From jan at caustic.org Thu Nov 7 14:53:45 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:53:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 In-Reply-To: <20021107224815.GO22212@primate.net> Message-ID: <20021107145130.C30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Aaron T Porter wrote: > Ahh, that's because the people that use it are too embarrased to > admit it. At one point E-Pinions was almost entirely Sol x86 based. It is > really aweful stuff though. Support for 3-4 ethernet cards, 2-3 scsi > cards, and very very few video cards last I messed with it (nearly 3 years > now fortunately). i pitty you. no, really, i do. that's horrid. if you're going the x86 route, you should use Linux or BSD, there's little reason not too. > I'd have to agree with the other advice here, to learn solaris, pick up > a used Sun box. Thanks to greedy engineers and the dot-bomb you can get > pretty amazing deals on Ultra workstations. Under $250 quite frequently > on Craigslist and Ebay. quite often. ebay tends to run a little more than craig's list, though. sometimes you find good deals on machines. i got a Sun IPX for free, a while ago, i still use it on my network at home, as the v6 router/firewall. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From john at jjdev.com Thu Nov 7 16:05:17 2002 From: john at jjdev.com (johnd) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:05:17 +0000 Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 In-Reply-To: <20021107141347.F11186@namodn.com> References: <20021107071820.60540.qmail@web20418.mail.yahoo.com> <20021106232124.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20021107141347.F11186@namodn.com> Message-ID: <20021108000517.GB28601@master.theunixman.com> On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 02:13:47PM -0800, Nick Jennings wrote: > On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 11:28:13PM -0800, f.johan.beisser wrote: > > > > second, why are you using x86 Slowaris? that's roughly like giving a > > formula 1 car 85 octane fuel. it works, but it really kills performance. > > you may want to look at Sun's new Linux distrobution instead, since it > > should be compatable with most sun products. anything you could possibly > > need to run as x86 solaris will run in Linux or BSD on x86 anyway. I think you are over generalizing. Are you assuming that Sparc boxes are fast? I work with x86 boxes that are way faster than some Sparcs and vice versa. > > Does anyone here use X86 Solaris? Is it a good way for cheapo's to learn > about Solaris Systems? Having some familiarity with it, even if it's > not professional will help greatly (not to mention the BSD and Linux > experience I already have). > It is a great way to learn. It will appear to be the same as a Sparc. If you learned Solaris on a x86 you would be able to move to a Sparc with ease. at least try it...there is no cost, if you can get a copy of the install CD's. Assuming your not doing any super low level stuff. From jan at caustic.org Thu Nov 7 16:28:02 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 16:28:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 In-Reply-To: <20021108000517.GB28601@master.theunixman.com> Message-ID: <20021107160719.C30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, johnd wrote: > I think you are over generalizing. Are you assuming that Sparc boxes > are fast? I work with x86 boxes that are way faster than some Sparcs and > vice versa. no, i'm assuming there's a very large difference between sparc and x86. speed between CPU architectures is a sum of more than just Hz. you can't do a reasonable comparison of Slowaris on x86 and Slowaris on sparc. to me, though, solaris is just.. slow. it's a good idea, good design, good workhorse. it's just not the powerhouse outside of that. > It is a great way to learn. It will appear to be the same as a Sparc. > If you learned Solaris on a x86 you would be able to move to a Sparc > with ease. as long as you don't try to dig in to the deep voodoo that's sometimes needed. > at least try it...there is no cost, if you can get a copy of the install > CD's. you can order them from sun. i believe you can still download them from sun.com, although i'm not sure. you can find media for sale on ebay, of course. i would suggest grabbing solaris for sparc, and buying a used sparc station for cheap. > Assuming your not doing any super low level stuff. many of the OS flags and hardware support bits require sparc. all the documentation on solaris assumes sparc, and sun hardware, vs the emulation layer than solaris x86 uses. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From evans at ncseweb.org Fri Nov 8 13:14:06 2002 From: evans at ncseweb.org (Skip Evans) Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 13:14:06 -0800 Subject: [buug] Anyone available for quick project? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021108130353.023d58c0@mail.mindspring.com> Hi all, When I first joined this list a while back I asked if anyone would be available as a consultant for some quick work on our newly installed BSD box. I need Samba and Apache set up and configured, first off. I know these are not big projects and not all that difficult (for someone with experience), but the fact is I simply have no time to get up to speed and we do need these things done, and we could use the advice of an experienced sys admin. As of the end of the day on Thursday I already had already clocked over forty hours and I'll be here over the weekend trying to get caught up, so that's where my time goes. What I am hoping to find is someone who can come in perhaps over the weekend or perhaps in the evenings and let me look over there shoulder and help me get up to speed a bit while the work is done. I am hoping it turns out to be the kind of business relationship where someone is available every few weeks, as needed, to perform these kind of quick and small projects for an hourly rate. If you'd be interested what I'd like to know is: 1) Your hourly rate. 2) An estimate on the number of hours to install and configure Samba and Apache. From here we can drill down to specifics of the configuration needed. If interested, email me offline. Thanks! Skip Evans Network Project Director National Center for Science Education 420 40th St, Suite 2 Oakland, CA 94609 510-601-7203 Ext. 308 510-601-7204 (fax) 800-290-6006 evans at ncseweb.org http://www.ncseweb.org NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. To sign up send: subscribe ncse your at email.address.here to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org To unsubscribe send: unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org From allenshao at yahoo.com Fri Nov 8 16:15:26 2002 From: allenshao at yahoo.com (allen shao) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:15:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] disk clone Message-ID: <20021109001526.72370.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, all; I am trying to clone a solaris system disk from a biger IDE drive to a smaller one on X86 platform. I tried twice, failed. Any one can give me some advice. I appreciate it. AL __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From jan at caustic.org Fri Nov 8 16:43:59 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 16:43:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109001526.72370.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021108164048.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, allen shao wrote: > I am trying to clone a solaris system disk from a > biger IDE drive to a smaller one on X86 platform. I > tried twice, failed. Any one can give me some advice. > I appreciate it. use dump and restore, that's about the only way to do it in any UNIX OS, short of reinstalling. you may want to consider using tar, but that won't preserve device files (i believe..). otherwise, reinstall on to the smaller drive, and move things over after the install. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Nov 8 17:51:17 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:51:17 -0800 Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021108164048.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> References: <20021109001526.72370.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com> <20021108164048.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20021109015117.GB23673@linuxmafia.com> Quoting f.johan.beisser (jan at caustic.org): > use dump and restore, that's about the only way to do it in any UNIX OS, > short of reinstalling. rsync is pretty comprehensive, too. But he might try one of the tools that copy entire filesystems without getting knee-deep in their semantics, such as Partimage. > you may want to consider using tar, but that won't preserve device files > (i believe..). Confirmed. -- Cheers, "It ain't so much the things we don't know that get us Rick Moen in trouble. It's the things we know that ain't so." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Artemus Ward (1834-67), U.S. journalist From robert at namodn.com Fri Nov 8 23:35:36 2002 From: robert at namodn.com (Rob Helmer) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 23:35:36 -0800 Subject: [buug] /usr on solaris X86 In-Reply-To: <20021108000517.GB28601@master.theunixman.com>; from john@jjdev.com on Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 12:05:17AM +0000 References: <20021107071820.60540.qmail@web20418.mail.yahoo.com> <20021106232124.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20021107141347.F11186@namodn.com> <20021108000517.GB28601@master.theunixman.com> Message-ID: <20021108233536.A11650@namodn.com> On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 12:05:17AM +0000, johnd wrote: > On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 02:13:47PM -0800, Nick Jennings wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 11:28:13PM -0800, f.johan.beisser wrote: > > > > > > second, why are you using x86 Slowaris? that's roughly like giving a > > > formula 1 car 85 octane fuel. it works, but it really kills performance. > > > you may want to look at Sun's new Linux distrobution instead, since it > > > should be compatable with most sun products. anything you could possibly > > > need to run as x86 solaris will run in Linux or BSD on x86 anyway. > > I think you are over generalizing. Are you assuming that Sparc boxes are fast? > I work with x86 boxes that are way faster than some Sparcs and vice versa. They are not neccessarily faster. The recent Sun boxes ( Ultras and above I think ) use 64 bit CPUs, so you can potentially get pretty good performance if your task is CPU-intensive and your application takes advantage of this fact. I/O generally sucks on Solaris out of the box, there's usually some tuning ( params in /etc/system ) that's needed. I always find that the default settings in Solaris are too general or too low for the task at hand ( web/app serving, file serving, db, etc. ). My opinion is that as far as "employability" goes, employers are most likely going to be looking for Sparc. I just don't think there's a good reason to go with Solaris x86 given the maturity of GNU/Linux and the BSD derivatives. I think that Sun releasing it's own GNU/Linux distribution is a good indication that this is not limited to me. On Sparc, you have endian issues that are worth learning about, and I really like the hardware ( being able to get to the "bios" from the console or serial port at any time is great, hard to do on x86 short of LinuxBIOS ). > > > > > Does anyone here use X86 Solaris? Is it a good way for cheapo's to learn > > about Solaris Systems? Having some familiarity with it, even if it's > > not professional will help greatly (not to mention the BSD and Linux > > experience I already have). > > > It is a great way to learn. It will appear to be the same as a Sparc. If you > learned Solaris on a x86 you would be able to move to a Sparc with ease. > > at least try it...there is no cost, if you can get a copy of the install CD's. > > > Assuming your not doing any super low level stuff. It's probably worth learning both if you have time, not having used Solaris x86 but having used *BSD ( mostly FreeBSD ), Solaris/SPARC and GNU/Linux and spoken with people who have I have a feeling it won't be a huge leap. Not as big of a leap the freenix/x86 vs. sol/sparc is anyway, because of the hardware differences. BTW, Solaris 9 x86 isn't free, but Solaris 8 x86 is : http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/binaries/inteldownload.html -- Rob Helmer From robert at namodn.com Sat Nov 9 00:08:02 2002 From: robert at namodn.com (Rob Helmer) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 00:08:02 -0800 Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109015117.GB23673@linuxmafia.com>; from rick@linuxmafia.com on Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 05:51:17PM -0800 References: <20021109001526.72370.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com> <20021108164048.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20021109015117.GB23673@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20021109000802.C11650@namodn.com> On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 05:51:17PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting f.johan.beisser (jan at caustic.org): > > > use dump and restore, that's about the only way to do it in any UNIX OS, > > short of reinstalling. > > rsync is pretty comprehensive, too. But he might try one of the tools > that copy entire filesystems without getting knee-deep in their > semantics, such as Partimage. Partimage looks pretty nice. > > > you may want to consider using tar, but that won't preserve device files > > (i believe..). > > Confirmed. With GNU tar adding the "-f" option will let you do this. The tar that comes with Solaris seems to store the permissions correctly ( character, block, etc. ) with this option, but doesn't seem to store the major/minor numbers correctly. I've used this to move filesystems around before. I've never used Solaris x86, I'd be interested to know if this doesn't work there. I just tested on the two systems I have access to, successfully archived "/dev/zero" on my Debian GNU/Linux and Solaris 7/Sparc machines ( well, on Sol7 it's a symlink to /devices/pseudo/mm at 0:zero, which works too ) with GNU tar. -- Rob Helmer From allenshao at yahoo.com Sat Nov 9 00:44:15 2002 From: allenshao at yahoo.com (allen shao) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 00:44:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] alert message Message-ID: <20021109084415.86201.qmail@web20419.mail.yahoo.com> Hi,all; I got a message pop up on the screen: " Nov 9 00:36:15 SUN sendmail[302]: [ID801593 mail.alert] NOQUEUE: low on space (have 0,SMTP-DAEMON needs 101 in /var/spool/mqueue) Does it mean my /var/spool is full? but there is "core" file in /var/spool/mqueue. What should I do? Thanks. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Nov 9 02:01:19 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 02:01:19 -0800 Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109000802.C11650@namodn.com> References: <20021109001526.72370.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com> <20021108164048.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20021109015117.GB23673@linuxmafia.com> <20021109000802.C11650@namodn.com> Message-ID: <20021109100119.GJ23673@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Rob Helmer (robert at namodn.com): > With GNU tar adding the "-f" option will let you do this. Um, hmm.... GNU tar's -f option allows you to address tar archive files instead of the default tape device. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with handling special files inside the tarball. Given that you say GNU tar handles special devices, that's pleasant news, but it seems likely that it does so with or without -f (i.e. without regard to the target). I never count on that with any tar implementation, personally. From itz at speakeasy.org Sat Nov 9 08:38:08 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 09 Nov 2002 08:38:08 -0800 Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109100119.GJ23673@linuxmafia.com> References: <20021109001526.72370.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com> <20021108164048.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20021109015117.GB23673@linuxmafia.com> <20021109000802.C11650@namodn.com> <20021109100119.GJ23673@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <867kfmsnpr.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Rick> Given that you say GNU tar handles special devices, that's Rick> pleasant news, but it seems likely that it does so with or Rick> without -f (i.e. without regard to the target). I never count Rick> on that with any tar implementation, personally. It does work, and that's what I use for Rob's purpose. I have done it that way for a long, long time; but now I in fact have no choice, because there's no dump/restore for reiserfs. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. I did not vote for Emperor Bush. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 From nick at zork.net Sat Nov 9 10:46:41 2002 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:46:41 -0800 Subject: [buug] alert message In-Reply-To: <20021109084415.86201.qmail@web20419.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021109084415.86201.qmail@web20419.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021109184641.GU10960@zork.net> begin allen shao quotation: > " Nov 9 00:36:15 SUN sendmail[302]: [ID801593 mail.alert] NOQUEUE: > low on space (have 0,SMTP-DAEMON needs 101 in /var/spool/mqueue) > > Does it mean my /var/spool is full? but there is "core" file in > /var/spool/mqueue. What should I do? That core file can most likely be safely removed. It is likely the result of a crashed sendmail. As for what you *should do*, it would probably involve switching to exim or postfix. -- A: No. Q: Should I include quotations after my reply? From jan at caustic.org Sat Nov 9 10:56:05 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:56:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] alert message In-Reply-To: <20021109184641.GU10960@zork.net> Message-ID: <20021109105503.P30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Nick Moffitt wrote: > As for what you *should do*, it would probably involve > switching to exim or postfix. which won't solve the problem that lack of disk space is causing, nor will it fix the reason why sendmail cored. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From nick at zork.net Sat Nov 9 10:59:23 2002 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:59:23 -0800 Subject: [buug] alert message In-Reply-To: <20021109105503.P30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> References: <20021109184641.GU10960@zork.net> <20021109105503.P30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20021109185923.GV10960@zork.net> begin f.johan.beisser quotation: > On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Nick Moffitt wrote: > > As for what you *should do*, it would probably involve switching > > to exim or postfix. > > which won't solve the problem that lack of disk space is causing, > nor will it fix the reason why sendmail cored. Very astute of you. However, I'm willing to wager that exim or postfix won't fill up the disk with core files like sendmail seems to be doing. That's just as good as solving the problem with sendmail. Everybody wins! -- A: No. Q: Should I include quotations after my reply? From jan at caustic.org Sat Nov 9 11:07:55 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:07:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] alert message In-Reply-To: <20021109185923.GV10960@zork.net> Message-ID: <20021109110209.Q30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Nick Moffitt wrote: > Very astute of you. i do try. > However, I'm willing to wager that exim or postfix won't fill > up the disk with core files like sendmail seems to be doing. That's > just as good as solving the problem with sendmail. Everybody wins! i'm willing to bet they will. perhaps a gentleman's bet? i've only had sendmail core due to OS or hardware issues. this is going to turn in to a "sendmail vs. {qmail,postfix,exim}" debate, which breaks down to "use what you want to use." find the source of the problem, simply replacing the software won't fix the root. it's treating the symptoms, not the issue. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From robert at namodn.com Sat Nov 9 12:15:38 2002 From: robert at namodn.com (Rob Helmer) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:15:38 -0800 Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109100119.GJ23673@linuxmafia.com>; from rick@linuxmafia.com on Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 02:01:19AM -0800 References: <20021109001526.72370.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com> <20021108164048.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20021109015117.GB23673@linuxmafia.com> <20021109000802.C11650@namodn.com> <20021109100119.GJ23673@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20021109121538.D13901@namodn.com> On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 02:01:19AM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Rob Helmer (robert at namodn.com): > > > With GNU tar adding the "-f" option will let you do this. > > Um, hmm.... GNU tar's -f option allows you to address tar archive files > instead of the default tape device. It doesn't seem to have anything to > do with handling special files inside the tarball. Sorry, I actually meant "-p" ( aka " --preserve-permissions" ). Without "-p" it does not. > > Given that you say GNU tar handles special devices, that's pleasant > news, but it seems likely that it does so with or without -f (i.e. > without regard to the target). I never count on that with any tar > implementation, personally. Without -f you'll just get the output to STDOUT, which is certainly not what you want in this case. > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From robert at namodn.com Sat Nov 9 12:31:55 2002 From: robert at namodn.com (Rob Helmer) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:31:55 -0800 Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109121538.D13901@namodn.com>; from robert@namodn.com on Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 12:15:38PM -0800 References: <20021109001526.72370.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com> <20021108164048.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20021109015117.GB23673@linuxmafia.com> <20021109000802.C11650@namodn.com> <20021109100119.GJ23673@linuxmafia.com> <20021109121538.D13901@namodn.com> Message-ID: <20021109123155.A18493@namodn.com> On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 12:15:38PM -0800, Rob Helmer wrote: > On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 02:01:19AM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > > Quoting Rob Helmer (robert at namodn.com): > > > > Given that you say GNU tar handles special devices, that's pleasant > > news, but it seems likely that it does so with or without -f (i.e. > > without regard to the target). I never count on that with any tar > > implementation, personally. > > > Without -f you'll just get the output to STDOUT, which is certainly > not what you want in this case. Actually, I take this back. Sometimes you certainly to want to stream it somewhere. The "-f" option is just irrelavent to this situation, and wouldn't be here if I hadn't typo'd. I've moved a system from one hard drive to the other using GNU tar by having the "clone" mounted on /mnt and doing something like : -- cd /mnt tar -cp "(directories)" | tar -x -- Where "(directories)" is replaced "/bin /boot /etc /dev" and so on, it's important to avoid "/mnt" or wherever your current working directory is ( this results in an infinite loop otherwise ). This is somewhat lazy in that most other versions of tar would require something like "tar -cpf - '(dirs)' | tar -xf -", you have to specify stdin/out explicitly as "-". That works in GNU tar but it isn't required. -- Rob From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Nov 9 12:31:58 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:31:58 -0800 Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109121538.D13901@namodn.com> References: <20021109001526.72370.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com> <20021108164048.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20021109015117.GB23673@linuxmafia.com> <20021109000802.C11650@namodn.com> <20021109100119.GJ23673@linuxmafia.com> <20021109121538.D13901@namodn.com> Message-ID: <20021109203158.GM23673@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Rob Helmer (robert at namodn.com): > Sorry, I actually meant "-p" ( aka " --preserve-permissions" ). > Without "-p" it does not. Ah. I knew about (and use) -p, but never relied on it to copy device files. http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/kb/200 -- Cheers, "Reality is not optional." Rick Moen -- Thomas Sowell rick at linuxmafia.com From jan at caustic.org Sat Nov 9 12:27:13 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:27:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109123155.A18493@namodn.com> Message-ID: <20021109122141.T30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Rob Helmer wrote: > -- > cd /mnt > tar -cp "(directories)" | tar -x > -- in gnu tar you can explicitly exclude directories. so make the tar command use "tar -cp "dir" -X /mnt | tar -xv" instead. > This is somewhat lazy in that most other versions of tar would > require something like "tar -cpf - '(dirs)' | tar -xf -", you > have to specify stdin/out explicitly as "-". habit forces me to be explicit. some variations i've found useful: tar cf - | ssh tar xvf - -C tar cf - . | (cd /to/some/dir ; tar xvf -) -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Nov 9 12:35:08 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:35:08 -0800 Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109123155.A18493@namodn.com> References: <20021109001526.72370.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com> <20021108164048.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20021109015117.GB23673@linuxmafia.com> <20021109000802.C11650@namodn.com> <20021109100119.GJ23673@linuxmafia.com> <20021109121538.D13901@namodn.com> <20021109123155.A18493@namodn.com> Message-ID: <20021109203508.GN23673@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Rob Helmer (robert at namodn.com): > cd /mnt > tar -cp "(directories)" | tar -x (sleep 10; cd olddirectory && tar Sczpf -) | ssh username at newhost 'cd newdirectory && tar Sxvzpf -' ;-> -- Cheers, "Send a policeman, and have it arrested." Rick Moen -- Otto von Bismarck, when asked what he rick at linuxmafia.com would do if the British Army landed. From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Nov 9 12:44:42 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 12:44:42 -0800 Subject: [buug] alert message In-Reply-To: <20021109105503.P30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> References: <20021109184641.GU10960@zork.net> <20021109105503.P30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20021109204442.GP23673@linuxmafia.com> Quoting f.johan.beisser (jan at caustic.org): > which won't solve the problem that lack of disk space is causing, nor will > it fix the reason why sendmail cored. In a just world, the coroner would find that sendmail committed seppuku. P.S.: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/mtas -- Cheers, "Teach a man to make fire, and he will be warm Rick Moen for a day. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm rick at linuxmafia.com for the rest of his life." -- John A. Hrastar From robert at namodn.com Sat Nov 9 13:02:32 2002 From: robert at namodn.com (Rob Helmer) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:02:32 -0800 Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109203158.GM23673@linuxmafia.com>; from rick@linuxmafia.com on Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 12:31:58PM -0800 References: <20021109001526.72370.qmail@web20421.mail.yahoo.com> <20021108164048.L30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20021109015117.GB23673@linuxmafia.com> <20021109000802.C11650@namodn.com> <20021109100119.GJ23673@linuxmafia.com> <20021109121538.D13901@namodn.com> <20021109203158.GM23673@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20021109130232.B18493@namodn.com> On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 12:31:58PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Rob Helmer (robert at namodn.com): > > > Sorry, I actually meant "-p" ( aka " --preserve-permissions" ). > > Without "-p" it does not. > > Ah. I knew about (and use) -p, but never relied on it to copy device > files. http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/kb/200 I just ran a few tests, GNU tar does actually preserve the major/minor device numbers and file type ( block/char/etc. ) without -p, I was mistaken there. It's worth noting that your new cloned system will not work very well if the files in /dev are copied using tar without -p ( if it boots up unassisted at all ). > > -- > Cheers, "Reality is not optional." > Rick Moen -- Thomas Sowell > rick at linuxmafia.com > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From atporter at primate.net Sat Nov 9 13:23:41 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:23:41 -0800 Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109122141.T30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> References: <20021109123155.A18493@namodn.com> <20021109122141.T30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20021109212341.GA23224@primate.net> On Sat, Nov 09, 2002 at 12:27:13PM -0800, f.johan.beisser wrote: > tar cf - | ssh tar xvf - -C Don't forget '-cblowfish', much nicer on your CPUs, and on a local network -cblowfish is a lot faster than -C. From jan at caustic.org Sat Nov 9 13:24:42 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 13:24:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] disk clone In-Reply-To: <20021109212341.GA23224@primate.net> Message-ID: <20021109132413.S30424-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Aaron T Porter wrote: > > tar cf - | ssh tar xvf - -C > > Don't forget '-cblowfish', much nicer on your CPUs, and on a local > network -cblowfish is a lot faster than -C. i'm assuming you mean that as an ssh flag, though. the -C is a tar flag, after all.. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From evans at ncseweb.org Sun Nov 10 21:39:42 2002 From: evans at ncseweb.org (Skip Evans) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:39:42 -0800 Subject: [buug] Recommend an editor? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110213521.02495eb8@mail.mindspring.com> Hey all, I have to train two other people here in our office to modify the majordomo list files, adding, deleting people, etc. When I tried to explain vi to them, they got the most confused look on their faces I've ever seen. Can anyone recommend a nice, easy to use editor for office types that won't cause me to find them laying down out in traffic? I've got ee here, and was thinking of that. Any other ideas? Thanks tons. Skip Evans Network Project Director National Center for Science Education 420 40th St, Suite 2 Oakland, CA 94609 510-601-7203 Ext. 308 510-601-7204 (fax) 800-290-6006 evans at ncseweb.org http://www.ncseweb.org NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. To sign up send: subscribe ncse your at email.address.here to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org To unsubscribe send: unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org From harpo at thebackrow.net Sun Nov 10 21:52:48 2002 From: harpo at thebackrow.net (Will Lowe) Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:52:48 -0800 Subject: [buug] Recommend an editor? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110213521.02495eb8@mail.mindspring.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110213521.02495eb8@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20021111055248.GB3445@thebackrow.net> > Can anyone recommend a nice, easy to use editor for office > types that won't cause me to find them laying down out in traffic? pico (included with pine) or it's gnuified version, nano, is pretty nice for people who are reasonably smart but not unix geeks. It has a pair of lines at the bottom listing the commands most people need to use. -- thanks, Will From nthomas at cise.ufl.edu Sun Nov 10 21:54:25 2002 From: nthomas at cise.ufl.edu (N. Thomas) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:54:25 -0500 Subject: [buug] Recommend an editor? In-Reply-To: <20021111055248.GB3445@thebackrow.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110213521.02495eb8@mail.mindspring.com> <20021111055248.GB3445@thebackrow.net> Message-ID: <20021111055425.GA29796@cise.ufl.edu> * Will Lowe [2002-11-10 21:52:48 -0800]: > > Can anyone recommend a nice, easy to use editor for office types that > > won't cause me to find them laying down out in traffic? > > pico (included with pine) or it's gnuified version, nano, is pretty nice > for people who are reasonably smart but not unix geeks. I second the recommendation for nano. thomas -- N. Thomas nthomas at cise.ufl.edu Etiamsi occiderit me, in ipso sperabo From penguin at techbandit.com Mon Nov 11 09:42:15 2002 From: penguin at techbandit.com (Romel) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 09:42:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] Re: Recommend an editor? In-Reply-To: <20021111153837.16441.79506.Mailman@weak.org> Message-ID: > > Can anyone recommend a nice, easy to use editor for office > types that won't cause me to find them laying down out in traffic? > > Skip Evans Jed (http://space.mit.edu/~davis/jed/) has menu drop-downs that make its usage quite intuitive. While nano is great for quick-n-easy editing, jed offers more capability down the road for those users that want to pursue it. -- Romel From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Nov 11 11:23:22 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:23:22 -0800 Subject: [buug] Recommend an editor? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110213521.02495eb8@mail.mindspring.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110213521.02495eb8@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20021111192322.GE30355@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Skip Evans (evans at ncseweb.org): > Can anyone recommend a nice, easy to use editor for office > types that won't cause me to find them laying down out in traffic? > > I've got ee here, and was thinking of that. Any other ideas? You didn't specify whether they'll be in an X11 environment or not. Obviously, you would get a rather different set of answers, depending. Please try to be specific. Making the assumption that we're talking console-only: e3 is another nice little editor you might use. Depending on the name you call it by, it supports the keybindings of emacs, vi, pico, nedit, or WordStar. The binary is only 10 kB, with no library dependencies. "ne" (Nice Editor) is rather similar -- ncurses-based with menus. But on the whole, you'll indeed probably want to steer them towards "ee" (easy editor): It has an always-displayed information/help window at the top, and pop-up menus. It's also modeless, using control keys for commands. When they get tired of being babied by ee, they can graduate to "joe" (Joe's Own Editor), which modelled after the editor in Borland Turbo C and WordStar. It has a fairly impressive feature set, including multiple windows and a regex engine, and supports keybindings of pico, emacs, and WordStar, among others. And speaking of pico, don't install it, but rather GNU nano, which is significantly better (e.g., a proper search-and-replace, smaller, faster, less buggy) and a fully compatible superset, along with avoiding UofW's proprietary licence. "pico" should be present only as a symlink. Tell Genie Scott that this one's free. ;-> (I've done network consulting for NCSE, a bit over a decade back.) -- Cheers, Long ago, there lived a creature with a Rick Moen voice like a vacuum cleaner. We know little rick at linuxmafia.com about it, but we do know that it ate cats. From nkj at namodn.com Mon Nov 11 11:46:53 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:46:53 -0800 Subject: [buug] Recommend an editor? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110213521.02495eb8@mail.mindspring.com>; from evans@ncseweb.org on Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 09:39:42PM -0800 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021110213521.02495eb8@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20021111114653.D6857@namodn.com> Well, 'nano' is really cool for a simple basic console editor. It is basically a free clone of 'pico' (which is the editor used in pine). - Nick On Sun, Nov 10, 2002 at 09:39:42PM -0800, Skip Evans wrote: > Hey all, > > I have to train two other people here in our office to modify > the majordomo list files, adding, deleting people, etc. > > When I tried to explain vi to them, they got the most confused > look on their faces I've ever seen. > > Can anyone recommend a nice, easy to use editor for office > types that won't cause me to find them laying down out in traffic? > > I've got ee here, and was thinking of that. Any other ideas? > > Thanks tons. > > > Skip Evans > Network Project Director > National Center for Science Education > 420 40th St, Suite 2 > Oakland, CA 94609 > 510-601-7203 Ext. 308 > 510-601-7204 (fax) > 800-290-6006 > evans at ncseweb.org > http://www.ncseweb.org > > NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that > this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members > to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the > creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. > > To sign up send: > subscribe ncse your at email.address.here > to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org > > To unsubscribe send: > unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here > to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From jammer at weak.org Mon Nov 11 14:52:28 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 14:52:28 -0800 Subject: [buug] I won't be able to make it to the next meeting... Message-ID: <20021111225228.GC18911@weak.org> Hey guys (and gals, if there are any, since none show up to the meetings :), I just remembered that I'm going to be busy next Thursday getting ready to go to my sister's wedding in Vegas, so I won't be able to make it to the BUUG meeting. Will someone fashion a sign and hoist high the BUUG banner? Oh, and Aaron, I am still interested in the RAM-for-caffeine trade. :) -Jon From webmaster at hawaiidakine.com Mon Nov 11 14:53:52 2002 From: webmaster at hawaiidakine.com (al plant) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:53:52 -1000 Subject: [buug] Mouse Trouble Message-ID: <3DD03500.813E5531@hawaiidakine.com> Hi Gurus, Loaded FreeBSD 4.7 on a destop box and all went well in the text mode including the mouse install. Mouse moves around the screen, no problem. However, when I installed XFCE as the Window Manager the mouse ( MS Serial Type ) pointer goes to the top of the screen and will move, but only across the top and down the left side. The keys work fine to move the mouse around the screen, just the roller ball won't work. The mouse buttons do work. I tried several mice by the way with the same result so I think whatever is the problem is common and not a defect related to just one mouse. Anybody know what could be wrong. Never had this happen before. Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii. Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX & Caldera Linux 2.4 & RedHat 7.2 Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043 From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Mon Nov 11 15:05:29 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:05:29 -0800 Subject: [buug] I won't be able to make it to the next meeting... In-Reply-To: <20021111225228.GC18911@weak.org> References: <20021111225228.GC18911@weak.org> Message-ID: <20021111230529.GA14865@wagner> On Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 02:52:28PM -0800, Jon McClintock wrote: > Hey guys (and gals, if there are any, since none show up to the meetings :), > > I just remembered that I'm going to be busy next Thursday getting ready > to go to my sister's wedding in Vegas, so I won't be able to make it to > the BUUG meeting. Will someone fashion a sign and hoist high the BUUG > banner? > I'll take responsibility for bringing a sign. Claude From jammer at weak.org Mon Nov 11 15:14:46 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:14:46 -0800 Subject: [buug] aris-extractor? Message-ID: <20021111231446.GF18911@weak.org> Has anyone tried the aris-extractor: Description: Scan system logs for security incidents and report them to ARIS The Attack Registry and Intelligence Service (ARIS) is a free, user-integrated attack-trending system hosted by SecurityFocus that allows administrators and operators of Intrusion Detection Systems (IDSs) to track, evaluate and respond to security alerts and attacks in a proactive manner. . As an integral piece of the ARIS Analzyer service, SecurityFocus's open-source ARIS Extractor utility distills data provided by IDS attack-list logs to build client portfolios that provide meaningful, graphical analysis of potentially malicious network incidents. By filtering out insignificant or benign data and converting it to a common format (xml), ARIS Extractor streamlines incident reporting for both security professionals and home users in a way that allows IDS operators to focus only on relevant attacks and incidents. Additionally, ARIS Extractor ensures client confidentiality through secure file-transfer protocols and optional IP address suppression. I'm getting fed up with all these probes on port 137, and would like to think there's something I can do about it... -Jon From nkj at namodn.com Mon Nov 11 19:51:01 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:51:01 -0800 Subject: [buug] Mouse Trouble In-Reply-To: <3DD03500.813E5531@hawaiidakine.com>; from webmaster@hawaiidakine.com on Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 12:53:52PM -1000 References: <3DD03500.813E5531@hawaiidakine.com> Message-ID: <20021111195101.E6857@namodn.com> Is it a PS2 mouse? or serial? On Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 12:53:52PM -1000, al plant wrote: > Hi Gurus, > > > Loaded FreeBSD 4.7 on a destop box and all went well in the text mode > including the mouse install. Mouse moves around the screen, no problem. > > However, when I installed XFCE as the Window Manager the mouse ( MS > Serial Type ) pointer goes to the top of the screen and will move, but > only across the top and down the left side. > > The keys work fine to move the mouse around the screen, just the roller > ball won't work. The mouse buttons do work. I tried several mice by the > way with the same result so I think whatever is the problem is common > and not a defect related to just one mouse. > > Anybody know what could be wrong. Never had this happen before. > > > > Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com > Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii. > Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX & Caldera Linux 2.4 & RedHat 7.2 > Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043 > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From robert at namodn.com Mon Nov 11 20:05:16 2002 From: robert at namodn.com (Rob Helmer) Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:05:16 -0800 Subject: [buug] Mouse Trouble In-Reply-To: <3DD03500.813E5531@hawaiidakine.com>; from webmaster@hawaiidakine.com on Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 12:53:52PM -1000 References: <3DD03500.813E5531@hawaiidakine.com> Message-ID: <20021111200516.F23013@namodn.com> On Mon, Nov 11, 2002 at 12:53:52PM -1000, al plant wrote: > Loaded FreeBSD 4.7 on a destop box and all went well in the text mode > including the mouse install. Mouse moves around the screen, no problem. > > However, when I installed XFCE as the Window Manager the mouse ( MS > Serial Type ) pointer goes to the top of the screen and will move, but > only across the top and down the left side. You should have a section in your /etc/X11/XF86Config that looks like : Section "Pointer" Device "something" Protocol "something" EndSection Can you send everything between 'Section "Pointer"' and 'EndSection'? It should be no more than 5 lines or so. Also, make sure there is only one "Pointer" section. My guess is that you are using moused ( it works on the console right? ) but you are not using /dev/sysmouse as your Device. Could be something else though, Protocol should be "Auto" I think. If this doesn't remotely match the reality of your XF86Config, you can send me the whole thing in private email if you want. -- Rob From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Wed Nov 13 10:51:52 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:51:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] latex (pronounced Lay-tech) Message-ID: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> Anybody used Latex? No, not the S&M variety that Claude sells, I'm talking about LaTeX: a document preparation system: http://www.latex-project.org/ I'm trying to help out a friend who wants to publish a math book (lots of equations I guess) and Latex seems like a good choice, what with AMS-LaTeX and all...opinions, please? Bob ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Exit Code Incorporated cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 From nick at zork.net Wed Nov 13 11:06:45 2002 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:06:45 -0800 Subject: [buug] latex (pronounced Lay-tech) In-Reply-To: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021113190645.GE30021@zork.net> begin Bob Read quotation: > Anybody used Latex? No, not the S&M variety that Claude sells, I'm > talking about LaTeX: a document preparation system: > > http://www.latex-project.org/ > > I'm trying to help out a friend who wants to publish a math book > (lots of equations I guess) and Latex seems like a good choice, what > with AMS-LaTeX and all...opinions, please? LaTeX is indeed tha bomb. I use the TeTeX distribution of TeX/LaTeX because it is Free Software (or at least most recently is). It's based on LaTeX2e, which is the most recent revision out there. Lamport's introductory text is a must-have, but I managed to use http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dwilkins/LaTeXPrimer/GSWLaTeX.tex as an example and tutorial. That got my undergraduate math-major brother up and running very quickly. -- A: No. Q: Should I include quotations after my reply? From jammer at weak.org Wed Nov 13 11:07:14 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:07:14 -0800 Subject: [buug] latex (pronounced Lay-tech) In-Reply-To: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021113190714.GA16709@weak.org> On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 10:51:52AM -0800, Bob Read wrote: > Anybody used Latex? > No, not the S&M variety that Claude sells, I'm talking > about LaTeX: a document preparation system: > > http://www.latex-project.org/ > > I'm trying to help out a friend who wants to publish a > math book (lots of equations I guess) and Latex seems > like a good choice, what with AMS-LaTeX and > all...opinions, please? We use LaTeX (pronounced "Lah-Tech", btw) here at work for some of our "publications". It's got it's idiosyncracies, but overall, it works fairly well. If you can grok HTML, you can grok TeX. One advantage is that you can fairly readily convert TeX documents to PDFs. Example output at: http://www.bluemug.com/research/els/els.pdf -Jon From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Wed Nov 13 11:37:21 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:37:21 -0800 Subject: [buug] latex (pronounced Lay-tech) In-Reply-To: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021113193721.GA24007@wagner> On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 10:51:52AM -0800, Bob Read wrote: > Anybody used Latex? > No, not the S&M variety that Claude sells, I'm talking > about LaTeX: a document preparation system: > > http://www.latex-project.org/ > > I'm trying to help out a friend who wants to publish a > math book (lots of equations I guess) and Latex seems > like a good choice, what with AMS-LaTeX and > all...opinions, please? Actually, I use LaTeX and sell latex :) I've done a good deal of work in LaTeX (including my Master's thesis), so if you've got any specific questions, feel free to ask. If all you're looking for is a recommendation -- you've got it: I can't recommend it highly enough. It's incredibly powerful and flexible, but the learning curve isn't bad at all. General resources: Books: Leslie Lamport's text "LaTeX: A Document Preparation System" is the classic. Also, "The LaTeX Companion" by Gossens, et. al. But for my money, I like "A Guide to LaTeX (3rd Ed)" by Kopka and Daly. All published by Addison-Wesley. If you're doing serious LaTeX work, you'll want to pick up all three. The newsgroup comp.text.tex hosts both TeX and LaTeX discussions (although most people are talking about LaTeX). Besides that, the best resource is your local installations. Most distributions of LaTeX provide a ton of additional packages -- the biggest thing is just figuring out which package does what (and that's what "The LaTeX Companion" is good for). Claude From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Nov 13 12:16:24 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 12:16:24 -0800 Subject: [buug] latex (pronounced Lay-tech) In-Reply-To: <20021113190714.GA16709@weak.org> References: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> <20021113190714.GA16709@weak.org> Message-ID: <20021113201624.GK30355@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Jon McClintock (jammer at weak.org): > We use LaTeX (pronounced "Lah-Tech", btw) here at work for some of our > "publications". It's got it's idiosyncracies, but overall, it works > fairly well. If you can grok HTML, you can grok TeX. Specifically, LaTeX is a front-end macro package, which drives an open-source implementation of Donald Knuth's TeX low-level typesetting engine called teTeX. It's also sometimes nice to work from a graphical "What You See Is What You Mean" front-end to LaTeX called LyX (with the minor disadvantage of not having all of LaTeX accessible, when you do). Style rulesets and consistent formatting are cool. -- Cheers, "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first Rick Moen woman she meets, and then teams up with three complete strangers rick at linuxmafia.com to kill again." -- Rick Polito's That TV Guy column, describing the movie _The Wizard of Oz_ From jzitt at josephzitt.com Wed Nov 13 23:51:58 2002 From: jzitt at josephzitt.com (Joseph Zitt) Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 23:51:58 -0800 Subject: [buug] latex (pronounced Lay-tech) In-Reply-To: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021113235158.54cbe17c.jzitt@josephzitt.com> On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:51:52 -0800 (PST) Bob Read wrote: > Anybody used Latex? > No, not the S&M variety that Claude sells, I'm talking > about LaTeX: a document preparation system: > > http://www.latex-project.org/ > > I'm trying to help out a friend who wants to publish a > math book (lots of equations I guess) and Latex seems > like a good choice, what with AMS-LaTeX and > all...opinions, please? I love it-- but I'm a markup kinda guy. I'd recommend using a good emacs environment for it, which will nicely handle the generating and checking stuff for you. -- | josephzitt at josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | GPG: A4224EFA 558B 4948 3D8A F338 5B2E DA4D 40EF 8290 A422 4EFA | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | From andrei at tatarchouk.net Thu Nov 14 00:56:17 2002 From: andrei at tatarchouk.net (Andrei Tatarchouk) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:56:17 +0100 Subject: [buug] email in HTML using sendmail Message-ID: <200211140856.gAE8uH708975@www.tatarchouk.net> Hello, I'm a new user to Linux and Sendmail, I would like to send the email in the HTML format: mail -s ' Subject' -b user1 user2 Message-ID: <20021114012151.B3441-100000@idiom.com> I'm not really an expert on this, but I think you need to pay attention to the MIME type in the email. Sendmail is not involved. I'm sure there is some five line perl script somewhere which automates what you want (http://www.cpan.org/). RFC's for MIME: http://www.nacs.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/MIME/MIME.html Sorry I can't give you the name of a command. On Thu, 14 Nov 2002, Andrei Tatarchouk wrote: > Hello, > I'm a new user to Linux and Sendmail, > I would like to send the email in the HTML > format: > mail -s ' Subject' -b user1 user2 It works for the recipients on Hotmail.com but in the other cases > mostly people just get the HTML text on their screens, on the outlook > I see the option "sending the webpage" it just takes the url, and nicely generate from > it a MIME message: the first part: text from this page for users reading the email > in the text mode and then the formatted HTML message with all the pictures and text encoded > for user reading it using the browser etc. > I was wondering if there is a command for doing it on Red Hat using Sendmail, > Any links or suggestions would be appreciated; I heard there is a simple language for > formatting the email messages > Regards, Andrei Tatarchouk > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From itz at speakeasy.org Thu Nov 14 08:15:54 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 14 Nov 2002 08:15:54 -0800 Subject: [buug] email in HTML using sendmail In-Reply-To: <20021114012151.B3441-100000@idiom.com> References: <20021114012151.B3441-100000@idiom.com> Message-ID: <86y97wb005.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> John> I'm not really an expert on this, but I think you need to pay John> attention to the MIME type in the email. Sendmail is not John> involved. I'm sure there is some five line perl script John> somewhere which automates what you want (http://www.cpan.org/). John> RFC's for MIME: John> http://www.nacs.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/MIME/MIME.html John> Sorry I can't give you the name of a command. mpack is one (there are many alternatives). mpack -s welcome -c text/html welcome.html user1 user2 ... Most people I know will direct mail with _only_ html parts to their spamboxes. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. I did not vote for Emperor Bush. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 From john at landahl.org Thu Nov 14 11:10:28 2002 From: john at landahl.org (John Landahl) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 11:10:28 -0800 Subject: [buug] latex (pronounced Lay-tech) In-Reply-To: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200211141110.28807.john@landahl.org> On Wednesday 13 November 2002 10:51 am, Bob Read wrote: > ... > I'm trying to help out a friend who wants to publish a > math book (lots of equations I guess) and Latex seems > like a good choice, what with AMS-LaTeX and > all...opinions, please? For do-it-yourself high quality printed output, there's nothing better. As someone else suggested, there's the LyX editor which serves as a decent front end to LaTeX. There's also TeXmacs, which seems a bit more advanced than LyX, but I haven't used it. You might want to keep your eye on Nemo (http://nemo.mongueurs.net/) for future use, which will combine TeXmacs, Qt, Perl, and POE. That said, my personal recommendation would be to use any editor you're familiar with and markup the book using XML (DocBook would probably be your best bet), then use a LaTeX/TeX backend for typesetting the final output. XML plus LaTeX/TeX is *the* way to go these days. -- John Landahl | http://landahl.org/john john at landahl.org | ICQ: 11191999 From itz at speakeasy.org Thu Nov 14 12:42:01 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 14 Nov 2002 12:42:01 -0800 Subject: [buug] latex (pronounced Lay-tech) In-Reply-To: <200211141110.28807.john@landahl.org> References: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> <200211141110.28807.john@landahl.org> Message-ID: <868yzvc292.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> John> That said, my personal recommendation would be to use any editor John> you're familiar with and markup the book using XML (DocBook John> would probably be your best bet), then use a LaTeX/TeX backend John> for typesetting the final output. XML plus LaTeX/TeX is *the* John> way to go these days. But if he has a lot of math formulas, XML (or MathML to be precise) is a lot of pain. Well, he can put them into NDATA entities and handcode them in LaTeX, but he will really ask himself why not do the whole thing directly in LaTeX. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. I did not vote for Emperor Bush. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Nov 14 13:11:15 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 13:11:15 -0800 Subject: [buug] latex (pronounced Lay-tech) In-Reply-To: <200211141110.28807.john@landahl.org> References: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> <200211141110.28807.john@landahl.org> Message-ID: <20021114211115.GT30355@linuxmafia.com> Quoting John Landahl (john at landahl.org): > That said, my personal recommendation would be to use any editor you're > familiar with and markup the book using XML (DocBook would probably be your > best bet), then use a LaTeX/TeX backend for typesetting the final output. > XML plus LaTeX/TeX is *the* way to go these days. Have you managed to find/develop an XML/Docbook toolchain that's stable enough for routine use? -- Cheers, Long ago, there lived a creature with a Rick Moen voice like a vacuum cleaner. We know little rick at linuxmafia.com about it, but we do know that it ate cats. From john at landahl.org Thu Nov 14 14:50:10 2002 From: john at landahl.org (John Landahl) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:50:10 -0800 Subject: [buug] latex (pronounced Lay-tech) In-Reply-To: <868yzvc292.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> References: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> <200211141110.28807.john@landahl.org> <868yzvc292.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <200211141450.10084.john@landahl.org> On Thursday 14 November 2002 12:42 pm, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > But if he has a lot of math formulas, XML (or MathML to be precise) is > a lot of pain. Well, he can put them into NDATA entities and > handcode them in LaTeX, but he will really ask himself why not do the > whole thing directly in LaTeX. MathML is not necessary. You can use TeX formula notation within DocBook, which gets rendered by TeX at the appropriate time in the processing chain. At least, that's what I understand. I've heard people say it works quite well ("beautifully" was the adverb I saw used), but I don't do formulae so I can't speak from personal experience. A Google search on "docbook tex math" pulls up a number of references. -- John Landahl | http://landahl.org/john john at landahl.org | ICQ: 11191999 From john at landahl.org Thu Nov 14 14:57:34 2002 From: john at landahl.org (John Landahl) Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:57:34 -0800 Subject: [buug] latex (pronounced Lay-tech) In-Reply-To: <20021114211115.GT30355@linuxmafia.com> References: <20021113185152.1974.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com> <200211141110.28807.john@landahl.org> <20021114211115.GT30355@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <200211141457.34088.john@landahl.org> On Thursday 14 November 2002 01:11 pm, Rick Moen wrote: > Have you managed to find/develop an XML/Docbook toolchain that's stable > enough for routine use? I've found PassiveTeX to be quite good for general use. I haven't done anything really deep with it, but so far I've been quite happy with it. It's an implementation of XSL:FO for LaTeX/TeX built on top of XLMTeX. You could use XMLTeX directly, I suppose, but it tends to be easier going through XSL:FO first, I think. And of course there tend to already be XML->XSL:FO transformers for the major XML grammars, especially DocBook. The other option is JadeTeX, which handles DSSSL in TeX. Not being very familiar with DSSSL, I don't have any experience with JadeTeX. From what I understand, though, it may be more mature and robust than PassiveTeX, especially since the XSL:FO standard itself is not quite mature or robust at this point. So I've found a good match for my needs (which are admittedly fairly basic) in PassiveTeX/XMLTeX, but as with anything, YMMV. -- John Landahl | http://landahl.org/john john at landahl.org | ICQ: 11191999 From evans at ncseweb.org Fri Nov 15 17:27:14 2002 From: evans at ncseweb.org (Skip Evans) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:27:14 -0800 Subject: [buug] Lost root access Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115172514.025a6b68@mail.mindspring.com> Hi all, I've really hosed myself this time. Someone else installed bash on my machine, but it got installed in /usr/local/bin. I assumed it had been put in /bin and did a chsh on root because I need to compile a port that requires root to be using the bash shell. So when I did the chsh on root I gave it /bin/bash for the new shell. Of course, you can guess what happens now. When I try and su to root, after entering the password, it says it can't find /bin/bash and then drops out. I have no root access know. Anyone know how I can fix this??? Thanks! Skip Evans Network Project Director National Center for Science Education 420 40th St, Suite 2 Oakland, CA 94609 510-601-7203 Ext. 308 510-601-7204 (fax) 800-290-6006 evans at ncseweb.org http://www.ncseweb.org NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. To sign up send: subscribe ncse your at email.address.here to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org To unsubscribe send: unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org From jan at caustic.org Fri Nov 15 17:34:02 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:34:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] Lost root access In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115172514.025a6b68@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20021115173027.N87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Skip Evans wrote: > Someone else installed bash on my machine, but it got installed > in /usr/local/bin. > > I assumed it had been put in /bin and did a chsh on root because I need > to compile a port that requires root to be using the bash shell. uh. what port? that's really dumb. > Of course, you can guess what happens now. When I try and su > to root, after entering the password, it says it can't find /bin/bash > and then drops out. > > I have no root access know. Anyone know how I can fix this??? drop to single user mode at the boot prompt through "boot -s" say "yes" on the /bin/sh. when you get the "#" prompt, type "mount -a" then "export TERM=vt100", and vipw. edit at will. write, quit, reboot. voila. i also suggest that you don't use /usr/local/bin/bash for your root shell, anything that "requires" it can be fixed in a different manner. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From ms at formulae.org Fri Nov 15 17:33:27 2002 From: ms at formulae.org (Michael Salmon) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:33:27 -0800 Subject: [buug] Lost root access In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115172514.025a6b68@mail.mindspring.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115172514.025a6b68@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20021115173326.B31797@formulae.org> Hi Skip, Basically you can hard reboot most *nix machines and pass parameters to the kernel at startup to go into single user mode. In that mode, you can do anything. I seem to recall you using FreeBSD right? If so, at the kernel prompt type "boot -s". If you're using linux, it's "init 1". ms- On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 05:27:14PM -0800, Skip Evans wrote: > Hi all, > > I've really hosed myself this time. > > Someone else installed bash on my machine, but it got installed > in /usr/local/bin. > > I assumed it had been put in /bin > and did a chsh on root because I need to compile a port that requires > root to be using the bash shell. > > So when I did the chsh on root I gave it /bin/bash for the new shell. > > Of course, you can guess what happens now. When I try and su > to root, after entering the password, it says it can't find /bin/bash > and then drops out. > > I have no root access know. Anyone know how I can fix this??? > > Thanks! > > > Skip Evans > Network Project Director > National Center for Science Education > 420 40th St, Suite 2 > Oakland, CA 94609 > 510-601-7203 Ext. 308 > 510-601-7204 (fax) > 800-290-6006 > evans at ncseweb.org > http://www.ncseweb.org > > NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that > this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members > to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the > creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. > > To sign up send: > subscribe ncse your at email.address.here > to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org > > To unsubscribe send: > unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here > to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug From john at jjdev.com Fri Nov 15 17:40:04 2002 From: john at jjdev.com (johnd) Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 01:40:04 +0000 Subject: [buug] Lost root access In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115172514.025a6b68@mail.mindspring.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115172514.025a6b68@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20021116014004.GB5513@master.compound.theunixman.com> On Fri, Nov 15, 2002 at 05:27:14PM -0800, Skip Evans wrote: > Hi all, > > I've really hosed myself this time. > > Someone else installed bash on my machine, but it got installed > in /usr/local/bin. > > I assumed it had been put in /bin > and did a chsh on root because I need to compile a port that requires > root to be using the bash shell. > > So when I did the chsh on root I gave it /bin/bash for the new shell. > > Of course, you can guess what happens now. When I try and su > to root, after entering the password, it says it can't find /bin/bash > and then drops out. > > I have no root access know. Anyone know how I can fix this??? you could boot off your CD, mount the partition, edit the /etc/passwd file, then reboot. From evans at ncseweb.org Fri Nov 15 18:02:56 2002 From: evans at ncseweb.org (Skip Evans) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:02:56 -0800 Subject: [buug] Thanks, Guys Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115180103.0258df70@mail.mindspring.com> Hey guys & gals (if there are any), I got the root access back. Look, I know it was dumb, okay? The many of you that told me so had no trouble convincing me. We all now programmers are not supposed to be sys admins, but this is not only a non-profit, but a non-profit where I do this stuff on my own time, not during the working hours when I do other stuff. Live and learn the hard way seems to be the path I've chosen. But thanks again for the invaluable help. Single user mode... I'll have to remember that. Skip Evans Network Project Director National Center for Science Education 420 40th St, Suite 2 Oakland, CA 94609 510-601-7203 Ext. 308 510-601-7204 (fax) 800-290-6006 evans at ncseweb.org http://www.ncseweb.org NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. To sign up send: subscribe ncse your at email.address.here to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org To unsubscribe send: unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org From john at jjdev.com Fri Nov 15 18:19:19 2002 From: john at jjdev.com (John de la Garza) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:19:19 -0800 Subject: [buug] Thanks, Guys In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115180103.0258df70@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: On Friday, November 15, 2002, at 06:02 PM, Skip Evans wrote: > Hey guys & gals (if there are any), > > I got the root access back. > > Look, I know it was dumb, okay? The many of you that told > me so had no trouble convincing me. > we all make mistakes...no biggie. If you learned something it's well worth it. > We all now programmers are not supposed to be sys admins, I wasn't aware of that. I learned a lot about system administration reading Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment by Stevens. Knowing how to program has helped me many times when I've had the role of sys admin. I've had to install software only to find that I needed to make small change to some C code in order for it to work on my specific platform. Being able to program give you the ability to write programs to automate a lot of things. If I had to choose between two people to hire as a UNIX admin and one was a C guru and the other hadn't really been exposed to much programming, I would want the admin who knew programming. Actually, I'd probably require him to understand programming. > > but this is not only a non-profit, but a non-profit where I do this > stuff on my own time, not during the working hours when I do > other stuff. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Nov 15 18:34:50 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:34:50 -0800 Subject: [buug] Thanks, Guys In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115180103.0258df70@mail.mindspring.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115180103.0258df70@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20021116023450.GO28592@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Skip Evans (evans at ncseweb.org): > Live and learn the hard way seems to be the path I've chosen. Well, it doesn't have to be. ;-> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ Excellent tutorial, that. Not to mention the FAQ, which includes: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/admin.html#FORGOT-ROOT-PW -- Cheers, Bah humbug. Shop late. Rick Moen Happy unChristmas. rick at linuxmafia.com From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Nov 15 18:44:04 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:44:04 -0800 Subject: [buug] Lost root access In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115172514.025a6b68@mail.mindspring.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021115172514.025a6b68@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20021116024404.GP28592@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Skip Evans (evans at ncseweb.org): > Someone else installed bash on my machine, but it got installed > in /usr/local/bin. > > I assumed it had been put in /bin > and did a chsh on root because I need to compile a port that requires > root to be using the bash shell. By the way, that's a non-sequitur. If you need to do something in bash, just start /usr/local/bin/bash from your normal root-user shell. When you're done, exit bash. If memory serves, the root account on FreeBSD is /bin/sh (a Bourne shell). If I'm correct in remembering that, then it's possible that there are system dependencies, e.g., in scripts that run as root, on Bourne shell behaviour. Bash is an excellent shell (say I), but it is not 100% Bourne-compatible, especially Bash 2.x. Because I don't have a FreeBSD host at my disposal at the moment, the foregoing relies on memory, and may have flaws in some details -- in which case, I'm sure someone, noting my domain name, will take great delight in whapping me over the head for it. But I stand by the general point, that you don't want to fsck around with root's environment, regardless. -- Cheers, "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first Rick Moen woman she meets, and then teams up with three complete strangers rick at linuxmafia.com to kill again." -- Rick Polito's That TV Guy column, describing the movie _The Wizard of Oz_ From jan at caustic.org Fri Nov 15 18:46:07 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:46:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] Lost root access In-Reply-To: <20021116024404.GP28592@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20021115184007.O87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Rick Moen wrote: > If memory serves, the root account on FreeBSD is /bin/sh (a Bourne > shell). If I'm correct in remembering that, then it's possible that > there are system dependencies, e.g., in scripts that run as root, on > Bourne shell behaviour. Bash is an excellent shell (say I), but it is > not 100% Bourne-compatible, especially Bash 2.x. root:*:0:0:Charlie &:/root:/bin/csh toor:*:0:0:Bourne-again Superuser:/root: those are both root users. default is /bin/csh (which has some tcsh behaviours). i tend to simply use "sudo" for all my root level crap. if i have to execute more than one command as root, i invoke bash through sudo. simple enough, gives me everything i need. > Because I don't have a FreeBSD host at my disposal at the moment, the > foregoing relies on memory, and may have flaws in some details -- in > which case, I'm sure someone, noting my domain name, will take great > delight in whapping me over the head for it. But I stand by the general > point, that you don't want to fsck around with root's environment, > regardless. it's usually bad policy to fuck with root unless you know what you're going to break, or have the skill to fix it after it's broken. most of freebsd's scripts are written in bourne shell. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Nov 15 18:57:10 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 18:57:10 -0800 Subject: [buug] Lost root access In-Reply-To: <20021115184007.O87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> References: <20021116024404.GP28592@linuxmafia.com> <20021115184007.O87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20021116025710.GQ28592@linuxmafia.com> Quoting f.johan.beisser (jan at caustic.org): > root:*:0:0:Charlie &:/root:/bin/csh > toor:*:0:0:Bourne-again Superuser:/root: > > those are both root users. default is /bin/csh (which has some tcsh > behaviours). Yeah, what he said. Bash sure as _hell_ isn't csh-compatible, making it doubly undesirable to chsh the root user to it. Though why would someone would willingly use csh in the 21st century, unless he's part of some Berkeley software cult.... > i tend to simply use "sudo" for all my root level crap. As should Skip. > most of freebsd's scripts are written in bourne shell. Well, csh programming being considered harmful, and all that. (I think I'll run, now. ;-> ) -- Cheers, Founding member of the Hyphenation Society, a grassroots-based, Rick Moen not-for-profit, locally-owned-and-operated, cooperatively-managed, rick at linuxmafia.com modern-American-English-usage-improvement association. From jan at caustic.org Fri Nov 15 19:34:42 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:34:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] Lost root access In-Reply-To: <20021116025710.GQ28592@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20021115192941.M87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002, Rick Moen wrote: > Yeah, what he said. > > Bash sure as _hell_ isn't csh-compatible, making it doubly undesirable > to chsh the root user to it. true. the FreeBSD team eventually went over to tcsh for the root shell, though. something i don't understand to this day. > Though why would someone would willingly use csh in the 21st century, > unless he's part of some Berkeley software cult.... beats me, i use bash. as far as being in the berkeley software cult: http://caustic.org/~jan/history.html i like things with history behind them. i also abuse my root level stuff through bash. i don't think i've logged in as root directly on any of my machines in many many months. in a couple cases, i've completely forgotten the root password. > > most of freebsd's scripts are written in bourne shell. > > Well, csh programming being considered harmful, and all that. (I think > I'll run, now. ;-> ) it is. i find it brutally frustrating, and stick with bourne shell or perl with bourne style syntax. luckily, you don't have to run to fast to get away from me. i'm pretty slow due to my knees. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Nov 15 19:46:52 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 19:46:52 -0800 Subject: [buug] Lost root access In-Reply-To: <20021115192941.M87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> References: <20021116025710.GQ28592@linuxmafia.com> <20021115192941.M87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20021116034652.GS28592@linuxmafia.com> Quoting f.johan.beisser (jan at caustic.org): > i also abuse my root level stuff through bash. i don't think i've logged > in as root directly on any of my machines in many many months. in a couple > cases, i've completely forgotten the root password. I follow a deliberate policy of doing nothing at all to make the root account comfortable. After all, if you spend significant amounts of time in it, you're doing something wrong. sudo, sgid bits, and the like are your friend. -- Cheers, Founding member of the Hyphenation Society, a grassroots-based, Rick Moen not-for-profit, locally-owned-and-operated, cooperatively-managed, rick at linuxmafia.com modern-American-English-usage-improvement association. From itz at speakeasy.org Sat Nov 16 00:25:01 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 16 Nov 2002 00:25:01 -0800 Subject: [buug] Re: admin "skills" [Was: Thanks, Guys] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86k7jddiqq.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> John> If I had to choose between two people to hire as a UNIX admin John> and one was a C guru and the other hadn't really been exposed to John> much programming, I would want the admin who knew programming. I don't think many people who actually do the hiring think this way, unfortunately. The ability to respond creatively and make my own tools seems less important than robotic trained knowledge of prepackaged commercial stuff like Legato and similar :( -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. I did not vote for Emperor Bush. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 From wfhoney at pacbell.net Mon Nov 18 14:02:35 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:02:35 -0800 Subject: [buug] Access control Message-ID: <3DD9637B.5080608@pacbell.net> Hi all, I want to modify the default permissions for files created using scp. Not untypically, I don't know where to begin to look. We're talking Linux machines. Thanks in advance! Bill From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Nov 18 14:16:27 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:16:27 -0800 Subject: [buug] Access control In-Reply-To: <3DD9637B.5080608@pacbell.net> References: <3DD9637B.5080608@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20021118221627.GG28592@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bill Honeycutt (wfhoney at pacbell.net): > I want to modify the default permissions for files created using scp. > Not untypically, I don't know where to begin to look. We're talking > Linux machines. Looks to me like scp replicates exactly the source file's permissions. Are you trying to force some different behaviour? -- Cheers, Errors have been made. Others will be blamed. Rick Moen rick at linuxmafia.com From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Mon Nov 18 14:25:04 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:25:04 -0800 Subject: [buug] Access control In-Reply-To: <3DD9637B.5080608@pacbell.net> References: <3DD9637B.5080608@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20021118222503.GB14008@wagner> On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 02:02:35PM -0800, Bill Honeycutt wrote: > I want to modify the default permissions for files created using scp. > Not untypically, I don't know where to begin to look. We're talking > Linux machines. I'm a bit unclear on what you're asking. If you're saying that you've scp'd some files from one machine to another and now want to change the permissions of the (now remote) files, you can just use ssh (e.g., ssh chmod mode file_name). If you're saying that your file permissions aren't being preserved across the scp, I'm not going to be of much help (if I recall correctly, file permissions are preserved). You might need to dig into your ssh environment variables or check your user's settings and permissions on the remote machine. Claude From atporter at primate.net Mon Nov 18 14:29:10 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:29:10 -0800 Subject: [buug] Access control In-Reply-To: <3DD9637B.5080608@pacbell.net> References: <3DD9637B.5080608@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20021118222910.GT23224@primate.net> On Mon, Nov 18, 2002 at 02:02:35PM -0800, Bill Honeycutt wrote: > Hi all, > > I want to modify the default permissions for files created using scp. > Not untypically, I don't know where to begin to look. We're talking > Linux machines. man umask, then check your default shell settings. From wfhoney at pacbell.net Mon Nov 18 14:31:47 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:31:47 -0800 Subject: [buug] Access control References: <3DD9637B.5080608@pacbell.net> <20021118221627.GG28592@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <3DD96A53.1070804@pacbell.net> Rick Moen wrote: > Looks to me like scp replicates exactly the source file's permissions. > Are you trying to force some different behaviour? I wish it were so, Rick. Complications result from the fact that these files come from a WinDoze computer and we're using pscp.com to copy them. The source file has the "Archive" bit set, but by the time it reaches the ext2 filesystem somehow they muddle through with 644 permissions. I wanted to get 664 so the group could overwrite. From wfhoney at pacbell.net Mon Nov 18 14:50:17 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:50:17 -0800 Subject: [buug] Re: Access control Message-ID: <3DD96EA9.1070600@pacbell.net> Aaron got it in one... umask [-p] [-S] [mode] From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Nov 18 14:57:38 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 14:57:38 -0800 Subject: [buug] Access control In-Reply-To: <3DD96A53.1070804@pacbell.net> References: <3DD9637B.5080608@pacbell.net> <20021118221627.GG28592@linuxmafia.com> <3DD96A53.1070804@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20021118225738.GH28592@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bill Honeycutt (wfhoney at pacbell.net): > I wish it were so, Rick. Well, it _is_ so -- with scp. But it turns out that you're not using scp. > Complications result from the fact that these files come from a WinDoze > computer and we're using pscp.com to copy them. The source file has the > "Archive" bit set, but by the time it reaches the ext2 filesystem > somehow they muddle through with 644 permissions. When you say the "archive" bit, I infer that you mean the Microsoft-OS permission bit of that name. If so, that has no obvious relevance to your situation. On the other hand, pscp's construction would seem very relevant: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/wishlist/pscp-filemodes.html -- Cheers, "All power is delightful, but absolute power Rick Moen is absolutely delightful." - Kenneth Tynan rick at linuxmafia.com From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Nov 18 15:04:24 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:04:24 -0800 Subject: [buug] Re: Access control In-Reply-To: <3DD96EA9.1070600@pacbell.net> References: <3DD96EA9.1070600@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20021118230424.GI28592@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bill Honeycutt (wfhoney at pacbell.net): > Aaron got it in one... > umask [-p] [-S] [mode] In other words: 1) You're _not_ using scp; you're using pscp. 2) Which doesn't even attempt to address permissions, but rather leaves them to the target machine. Which of course implements its umask. 3) So, if you want a different umask, change it. -- Cheers, "We're sorry; you have reached an imaginary number. Rick Moen Please rotate your 'phone ninety degrees and try again." rick at linuxmafia.com From allenshao at yahoo.com Mon Nov 18 19:40:10 2002 From: allenshao at yahoo.com (allen shao) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:40:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] make xconfig Error mesg Message-ID: <20021119034010.36678.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, all; While i am running "make xconfig" on RedHat 7.0, I got some error massage: "..... Application initialization failed:couldn't connedt to display ":0"" Error in startup script: invalid command name "button" While executing "button .ref" (file "scripts/kconfig.tk" line51) make: *** [xconfig] Error 1 " What kind of problem is it? Anybody experienced this? Appreciate your help. Al. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com From bferrell at baywinds.org Mon Nov 18 19:57:49 2002 From: bferrell at baywinds.org (Bruce Ferrell) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:57:49 -0800 Subject: [buug] make xconfig Error mesg References: <20021119034010.36678.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DD9B6BD.6070808@baywinds.org> it means that you 1.) logged in as someone other than root and then shifted to root and didn't execute xhost +localhost or 2.) don't have X running. allen shao wrote: > Hi, all; > > While i am running "make xconfig" on RedHat 7.0, I got > some error massage: > "..... > Application initialization failed:couldn't connedt to > display ":0"" > Error in startup script: invalid command name "button" > While executing > "button .ref" > (file "scripts/kconfig.tk" line51) > make: *** [xconfig] Error 1 > " > What kind of problem is it? Anybody experienced this? > > Appreciate your help. > > Al. > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site > http://webhosting.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3257 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From itz at speakeasy.org Thu Nov 21 12:50:36 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 21 Nov 2002 12:50:36 -0800 Subject: [buug] TeX transliteration macro Message-ID: <86lm3mzlyb.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> OK, here's one for the TeXperts on the list (we know who you are, you have unmasked yourselves :) I need a macro that would act as (the simplest case) of the Unix program tr. Something like this: \tr{foo_bar}{_}{-} should produce foo-bar Background: I automatically produce cross-referenced documentation from code. Code symbols are targets of links, and contain underscores. TeX labels of all kinds (plain LaTeX, hyperref, ...) can't contain underscores, but can contain hyphens. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. I did not vote for Emperor Bush. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 From allenshao at yahoo.com Thu Nov 21 13:02:32 2002 From: allenshao at yahoo.com (allen shao) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:02:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] rlogin Message-ID: <20021121210232.16814.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, i know that it is not recommanded, but i just want to try it. i created /etc/hosts.equiv and $HOME/.rhosts on my solaris, and tried to rlogin from another linux machine by an account on both of them, it still asked for passwd. Something wrong. what is it? Thanks. AL __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From kevinarmstr0ng at hotmail.com Thu Nov 21 13:26:28 2002 From: kevinarmstr0ng at hotmail.com (Kevin Armstrong) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:26:28 -0800 Subject: [buug] rlogin Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From itz at speakeasy.org Thu Nov 21 13:38:01 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 21 Nov 2002 13:38:01 -0800 Subject: [buug] rlogin In-Reply-To: <20021121210232.16814.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021121210232.16814.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <86heeazjra.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> allen> Hi, i know that it is not recommanded, but i just want to try allen> it. i created /etc/hosts.equiv and $HOME/.rhosts on my solaris, allen> and tried to rlogin from another linux machine by an account on allen> both of them, it still asked for passwd. Often this means that the reverse lookup for the IP you're connecting from returns something else than you expect. For example, if your linux box is known as foo.homeunix.net (a DynDNS domain), but the reverse lookup provided by your ISP returns something like ip-123.clueless.com, and you put foo.homeunix.net in the hosts files, it won't work. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. I did not vote for Emperor Bush. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 From kevinarmstr0ng at hotmail.com Thu Nov 21 15:09:29 2002 From: kevinarmstr0ng at hotmail.com (Kevin Armstrong) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:09:29 -0800 Subject: [buug] rlogin Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atporter at primate.net Thu Nov 21 15:37:03 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:37:03 -0800 Subject: [buug] rlogin In-Reply-To: <20021121210232.16814.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021121210232.16814.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021121233703.GF1359@primate.net> On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 01:02:32PM -0800, allen shao wrote: > i know that it is not recommanded, but i just want to > try it. i created /etc/hosts.equiv and $HOME/.rhosts > on my solaris, and tried to rlogin from another linux > machine by an account on both of them, it still asked > for passwd. rlogin is a very bad idea for a number of reasons. Look into ssh with an authorized_hosts file as a transparent alternative. From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Thu Nov 21 16:32:32 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:32:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] rlogin In-Reply-To: <20021121233703.GF1359@primate.net> Message-ID: <20021122003232.17803.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> this is a great book about how to properly configure rlogin, .rhosts, and hosts.equiv so that rlogin and remsh are safe and secure from hackers: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0684835584/reviews/103-8593931-6826212 Passwords are soooo 90's. --- Aaron T Porter wrote: > On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 01:02:32PM -0800, allen shao > wrote: > > i know that it is not recommanded, but i just want > to > > try it. i created /etc/hosts.equiv and > $HOME/.rhosts > > on my solaris, and tried to rlogin from another > linux > > machine by an account on both of them, it still > asked > > for passwd. > > rlogin is a very bad idea for a number of reasons. > Look into ssh > with an authorized_hosts file as a transparent > alternative. > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Exit Code Incorporated cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From atporter at primate.net Thu Nov 21 16:41:35 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 16:41:35 -0800 Subject: [buug] rlogin In-Reply-To: <20021122003232.17803.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021121233703.GF1359@primate.net> <20021122003232.17803.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021122004135.GA20622@primate.net> On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 04:32:32PM -0800, Bob Read wrote: > this is a great book about how to properly configure > rlogin, .rhosts, and hosts.equiv so that rlogin and > remsh are safe and secure from hackers: > > Passwords are soooo 90's. Forget r*, man ssh-agent and join the 21st century. From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Thu Nov 21 17:41:55 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 17:41:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] rlogin In-Reply-To: <20021122004135.GA20622@primate.net> Message-ID: <20021122014155.63779.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> Ouch! Joking! This book, @Large, is the true story of a kid (aka InfoMaster aka Phantom Dialer) who holds some records for cracking. Basically, it's a treatise on "Thou shalt not use r*": http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0684835584/reviews/103-8593931-6826212 Yah, it's old (1998 or so I think), but I'll be damned if it doesn't still apply to "modern" computing, given that Allen probably doesn't know WHY we're all cringing when he mentions rlogin. --- Aaron T Porter wrote: > On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 04:32:32PM -0800, Bob Read > wrote: > > this is a great book about how to properly > configure > > rlogin, .rhosts, and hosts.equiv so that rlogin > and > > remsh are safe and secure from hackers: > > > > Passwords are soooo 90's. > > Forget r*, man ssh-agent and join the 21st > century. > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Exit Code Incorporated cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Fri Nov 22 07:50:55 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:50:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] create .doc files on linux/BSD Message-ID: <20021122155055.11650.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I'm working with a guy who needs to generate dynamic documents in microsoft word .doc format. He says he can do it with VB and COM. I suggested he do it in pdf instead on linux/BSD with the abundance of .pdf tools. My question is: have any of you created .doc files on linux/BSD, and what tool did you use? Quick google searches turned up "Makedoc" and "Tealdoc", as well as open office (can I create word docs via open office on the command line?). Anybody created word docs from LaTeX? Thanks, Bob ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Exit Code Incorporated cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From sobolak at myrealbox.com Fri Nov 22 08:29:21 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:29:21 -0600 Subject: [buug] create .doc files on linux/BSD Message-ID: <1037982561.5158e5e0sobolak@myrealbox.com> > I'm working with a guy who needs to generate > dynamic documents in microsoft word .doc format. He > says he can do it with VB and COM. > I suggested he do it in pdf instead on linux/BSD >with the abundance of .pdf tools. > My question is: have any of you created .doc files > on linux/BSD, and what tool did you use? What about generating rtf files from BSD/Linux? Rich Text Format should have all of the formatting you need. He's bluffing, sorta. You can create Word Docs using VB/COM on Windows, but it's a dangerous prospect. It generally involves using Word as an object in a separate memory space. Word automation is kludgy and frequently fails. (I've been down this path - we had to buy two servers that literally only ran Word. It was such a hog that we couldn't use the box for anything else. I'm up against the same thing right now for PowerPoint - we generate CSV files on Solaris and then use RMI to put the files on Windows, and generate the reports.) Unless you need to edit the documents, PDF is a MUCH better solution. But you already knew that. HTH, brian -----Original Message----- From: Bob Read To: buug at weak.org Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:50:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] create .doc files on linux/BSD Hello, Thanks, Bob ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Exit Code Incorporated cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Buug mailing list Buug at weak.org http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug -- Brian Sobolak http://www.planetshwoop.com/ sobolak at myrealbox.com From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Fri Nov 22 10:06:21 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:06:21 -0800 Subject: [buug] create .doc files on linux/BSD In-Reply-To: <20021122155055.11650.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021122155055.11650.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021122180620.GA28505@wagner> On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 07:50:55AM -0800, Bob Read wrote: > Quick google searches turned up "Makedoc" and > "Tealdoc", as well as open office (can I create word > docs via open office on the command line?). I might be mistaken, but I believe that Makedoc and Tealdoc are both tools for creating Palm Pilot "DOC" files. (For some reason, Palm decided to name one of its text formats "DOC". It's a source of constant confusion.) Because the OpenOffice file format is XML, you should be able to create a new document via your regular text editor. I've never really looked into this option and don't know how complicated the task might be. See http://xml.openoffice.org/. Even if you do get this to work, you're still faced with the issue of imperfect conversion between OO and Word. Generally, whenever this question (generating Word documents under Unix) comes up people recommend writing to RTF or HTML since Word can read both of these formats. The problem is that -- unless your formatting needs are very simple -- these formats simply can't give you the flexibility that you'll need. You need to find out the basic needs of the recipient. If all they need to do is read and print the document, go with PDF. But if the recipient does actually need a Word document (e.g., for editing), the best bet is to pursue a Microsoft-only solution. Pick up a copy of _Writing Word Macros_ from O'Reilly. (It's written by Steve Roman, the same guy that wrote the _Writing Excel Macros_ book that I was complaining about at last night's meeting. For those not at the meeting, I wasn't complaining about the author as much as the fact that, with proprietary software, you frequently run into "undocumented features.") Claude From john at landahl.org Fri Nov 22 12:06:19 2002 From: john at landahl.org (John Landahl) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:06:19 -0800 Subject: [buug] create .doc files on linux/BSD In-Reply-To: <20021122155055.11650.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021122155055.11650.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200211221206.19647.john@landahl.org> On Friday 22 November 2002 07:50 am, Bob Read wrote: > I'm working with a guy who needs to generate > dynamic documents in microsoft word .doc format. He > says he can do it with VB and COM. > I suggested he do it in pdf instead on linux/BSD > with the abundance of .pdf tools. As others have said, the first thing to do will be to determine the person's needs more exactly. Unfortunately some places /demand/ submissions in Word format, so that could be part of the requirement. I've found HTML to be a fairly decent way to get text into Word, but you do have to get /into/ Word to make sure all looks well and then save it out as a doc file. On the RTF side, there's JFOR if you're doing XML authoring (DocBook, etc.). Again, though, you'll almost certainly want to look at the RTF in Word and save it out as a doc file. But then even if you author in Word from the start you have no guarantee that your document will look exactly the same on another computer. So if later editing is not a requirement and high quality *is*, PDF is of course the best bet. > Anybody created word docs from LaTeX? If your intent was to disturb and horrify your audience, you have succeeded. 18,000 lashes with a wet noodle for even suggesting such a thing. :) BTW, hi everyone, I'm new to the list. -- John Landahl | http://landahl.org/john john at landahl.org | ICQ: 11191999 From john at landahl.org Fri Nov 22 12:24:59 2002 From: john at landahl.org (John Landahl) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:24:59 -0800 Subject: [buug] rlogin In-Reply-To: <20021121210232.16814.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021121210232.16814.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200211221224.59100.john@landahl.org> On Thursday 21 November 2002 01:02 pm, allen shao wrote: > i know that it is not recommanded, but i just want to > try it. It's not that it's not recommended, it's more that it SHOULD SIMPLY NEVER BE USED. In previous sysadmin jobs we used to seek and destroy .rlogin and hosts.equiv files as a matter of policy. In fact, if you're using someone else's machine you may be violating your Acceptable Use Policy by using rlogin. If you just want to see it work ONCE, then NEVER USE IT AGAIN, follow the links others have recommended. Then immediately turn it off before your machine is cracked. Maybe it already has been cracked while you were testing it out. :) With the existence of OpenSSH there's just no reason for these commands to exist anymore. Aaron mentioned ssh-agent: this standard SSH command makes ssh as easy to use as rlogin, but far *far* more secure. Remember, not only is rlogin insecure for authentication purposes, all communication between you and the remote computer is sent in clear text. Anything you type while using rlogin is visible to anyone else on your local network segment (or beyond, if you are *gasp* going across networks). That includes, especially, passwords you type while using "su". -- John Landahl | http://landahl.org/john john at landahl.org | ICQ: 11191999 From john at jjdev.com Fri Nov 22 13:13:43 2002 From: john at jjdev.com (johnd) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:13:43 +0000 Subject: [buug] create .doc files on linux/BSD In-Reply-To: <20021122155055.11650.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021122155055.11650.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021122211343.GD16434@master.compound.theunixman.com> On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 07:50:55AM -0800, Bob Read wrote: > Hello, > I'm working with a guy who needs to generate > dynamic documents in microsoft word .doc format. He > says he can do it with VB and COM. > I suggested he do it in pdf instead on linux/BSD > with the abundance of .pdf tools. I've done this thing before using rich text. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Nov 22 13:22:03 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:22:03 -0800 Subject: [buug] rlogin In-Reply-To: <200211221224.59100.john@landahl.org> References: <20021121210232.16814.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> <200211221224.59100.john@landahl.org> Message-ID: <20021122212203.GQ28592@linuxmafia.com> Quoting John Landahl (john at landahl.org): > It's not that it's not recommended, it's more that it SHOULD SIMPLY NEVER BE > USED. In previous sysadmin jobs we used to seek and destroy .rlogin and > hosts.equiv files as a matter of policy. Isn't it simpler just to make sure rshd and rlogind are disabled? > With the existence of OpenSSH there's just no reason for these commands to > exist anymore. Aaron mentioned ssh-agent: this standard SSH command makes > ssh as easy to use as rlogin, but far *far* more secure. > > Remember, not only is rlogin insecure for authentication purposes.... Oddly, enough, most implementations have a Kerberos option. Not that that is sufficient, but I thought I'd just mention it. -- Cheers, "Azathoth need not be present to win." Rick Moen -- Charles O. Baucum, Jr. rick at linuxmafia.com From john at landahl.org Fri Nov 22 13:27:00 2002 From: john at landahl.org (John Landahl) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:27:00 -0800 Subject: [buug] rlogin In-Reply-To: <20021122212203.GQ28592@linuxmafia.com> References: <20021121210232.16814.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> <200211221224.59100.john@landahl.org> <20021122212203.GQ28592@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <200211221327.00569.john@landahl.org> On Friday 22 November 2002 01:22 pm, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting John Landahl (john at landahl.org): > > It's not that it's not recommended, it's more that it SHOULD SIMPLY > > NEVER BE USED. In previous sysadmin jobs we used to seek and destroy > > .rlogin and hosts.equiv files as a matter of policy. > > Isn't it simpler just to make sure rshd and rlogind are disabled? Ideally both actions are necessary, in case someone (or something) turns on rshd/rlogind at some point. Even better would be to remove the r* tools from the system altogether so that isn't even possible. But IIRC Solaris includes them in one of its basic system packages, making for an annoyance if you do remove them and later (possibly regularly) test the validity of installed packages. > Oddly, enough, most implementations have a Kerberos option. Not that > that is sufficient, but I thought I'd just mention it. At least on the Sun side of things, as of Solaris 8 (again, IIRC) they were still, inexplicably, using Kerberos IV. KerbV is more than sufficient, but of course takes a great deal more work to set up (and maintain) than SSH. -- John Landahl | http://landahl.org/john john at landahl.org | ICQ: 11191999 From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Nov 22 13:51:48 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:51:48 -0800 Subject: [buug] rlogin In-Reply-To: <200211221327.00569.john@landahl.org> References: <20021121210232.16814.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> <200211221224.59100.john@landahl.org> <20021122212203.GQ28592@linuxmafia.com> <200211221327.00569.john@landahl.org> Message-ID: <20021122215148.GR28592@linuxmafia.com> Quoting John Landahl (john at landahl.org): > Ideally both actions are necessary, in case someone (or something) turns on > rshd/rlogind at some point. At one point, I do remember hacking adduser to automatically create a root-owned, zero-length ~/.rhosts , just on this theory. > Even better would be to remove the r* tools from the system altogether > so that isn't even possible. These days, I do omit the daemon tools. If a user wishes to compromise some _other_ system's security, I'm not going to stop him. -- Cheers, Before enlightenment, caffeine. Rick Moen After enlightenment, caffeine. rick at linuxmafia.com From itz at speakeasy.org Fri Nov 22 14:47:25 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 22 Nov 2002 14:47:25 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory Message-ID: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> I just finished installing the memory I bought for the price of latte last night :) It works fine, though sticking it in the mini-tower box chock full of cables was hell. Anyway, I now have the retired SIMMs to give away: 4x16M and 2x32M. I will bring them to the next meeting. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. I did not vote for Emperor Bush. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 From allenshao at yahoo.com Fri Nov 22 19:09:18 2002 From: allenshao at yahoo.com (allen shao) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:09:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] XFree86Config Message-ID: <20021123030918.71916.qmail@web20415.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I just installed FreeBSD4.7 on a Dual PIII pc. Video Card: Matrox G2. when "startx", system hanged on (==)Using config file: "/etc/X11/XF86Config". Anyone help me, please. Thanks. AL __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus ? Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From nkj at namodn.com Sat Nov 23 14:16:20 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:16:20 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory In-Reply-To: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net>; from itz@speakeasy.org on Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 02:47:25PM -0800 References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> Oooh maybe I can bring new life to my Pentium 200 :) On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 02:47:25PM -0800, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > I just finished installing the memory I bought for the price of latte > last night :) It works fine, though sticking it in the mini-tower box > chock full of cables was hell. Anyway, I now have the retired SIMMs > to give away: 4x16M and 2x32M. I will bring them to the next meeting. > > -- > Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. I did not vote for Emperor Bush. > GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From karshi.hasanov at utoronto.ca Sat Nov 23 15:24:04 2002 From: karshi.hasanov at utoronto.ca (Karshi) Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 23:24:04 +0000 Subject: [buug] dhcpclient_help Message-ID: <200211232324.04938.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca> Hi all, Is there any way I can turn off the dhcpclient? Since FreeBSD start supporting my video card (Nvidia), I decided to try it again. In Linux usually I do " dhcpcd -k" to stop the dhcp running, but have no idea how it's done in FreeBSD. I would appreciate your help. From nkj at namodn.com Sun Nov 24 00:32:07 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 00:32:07 -0800 Subject: [buug] dhcpclient_help In-Reply-To: <200211232324.04938.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca>; from karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca on Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 11:24:04PM +0000 References: <200211232324.04938.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20021124003206.E17405@namodn.com> Hi Karshi, Hmm, you just want to kill the process? I'm not at my FreeBSD box right now, but I believe just a: 'killall -9 dhcpd' should work. I'll double check on monday though... - Nick On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 11:24:04PM +0000, Karshi wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there any way I can turn off the dhcpclient? > Since FreeBSD start supporting my video card (Nvidia), I decided > to try it again. > In Linux usually I do " dhcpcd -k" to stop the dhcp running, but > have no idea how it's done in FreeBSD. > > I would appreciate your help. > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From karshi.hasanov at utoronto.ca Sun Nov 24 08:19:46 2002 From: karshi.hasanov at utoronto.ca (Karshi) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:19:46 -0500 Subject: [buug] cd_mount Message-ID: <200211241119.46185.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca> Hi all, I am having a problem using the CDRead/Writer on FreeBSD4.7. It founds my CDWriter on "acd0" and the CDReader on "acd1", but when I mount to "/cdrom" (/dev/acd0) the machine freezes for few minutes. Any suggestions? From nkj at namodn.com Sun Nov 24 11:51:11 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:51:11 -0800 Subject: [buug] cd_mount In-Reply-To: <200211241119.46185.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca>; from karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca on Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 11:19:46AM -0500 References: <200211241119.46185.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20021124115111.G17405@namodn.com> On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 11:19:46AM -0500, Karshi wrote: > Hi all, > > I am having a problem using the CDRead/Writer on FreeBSD4.7. > It founds my CDWriter on "acd0" and the CDReader on "acd1", > but when I mount to "/cdrom" (/dev/acd0) the machine freezes for > few minutes. > Any suggestions? Do you have a cd in the drive? What kind of CD is it? Do you get any errors when you mount the drive? - Nick From ms at formulae.org Sun Nov 24 12:00:31 2002 From: ms at formulae.org (Michael Salmon) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:00:31 -0800 Subject: [buug] suse + e450 = annoyed Message-ID: <20021124120031.J65285@formulae.org> hi folks, I was wondering if anyone knows a place where I can download rpms for suse 7.3 sparc directly, rather then switching between cds? All I can find are .iso files online :\ I have two sun e450's and with a dlt4000 (tape) plugged in, the cd-rom wont work (termination is ok). So i cant recover and use the cd-rom simultaneously. These machines are remote so I cant simply pop in the other cds. UGH. thanks ms From karshi.hasanov at utoronto.ca Sun Nov 24 14:02:26 2002 From: karshi.hasanov at utoronto.ca (Karshi) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 17:02:26 -0500 Subject: [buug] cd_mount In-Reply-To: <20021124115111.G17405@namodn.com> References: <200211241119.46185.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca> <20021124115111.G17405@namodn.com> Message-ID: <200211241702.26809.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca> The HP Writeable CD. I used the "/stand/sysinstall" command and didn't see errors. On Sunday 24 November 2002 02:51 pm, you wrote: > On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 11:19:46AM -0500, Karshi wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I am having a problem using the CDRead/Writer on FreeBSD4.7. > > It founds my CDWriter on "acd0" and the CDReader on "acd1", > > but when I mount to "/cdrom" (/dev/acd0) the machine freezes for > > few minutes. > > Any suggestions? > > Do you have a cd in the drive? What kind of CD is it? Do you get > any errors when you mount the drive? > > - Nick From nkj at namodn.com Sun Nov 24 19:36:16 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 19:36:16 -0800 Subject: [buug] cd_mount In-Reply-To: <200211241702.26809.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca>; from karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca on Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 05:02:26PM -0500 References: <200211241119.46185.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca> <20021124115111.G17405@namodn.com> <200211241702.26809.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20021124193616.I17405@namodn.com> On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 05:02:26PM -0500, Karshi wrote: > The HP Writeable CD. > I used the "/stand/sysinstall" command and didn't > see errors. as root, try 'mount /cdrom' see what errors show up. If any... > > On Sunday 24 November 2002 02:51 pm, you wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 24, 2002 at 11:19:46AM -0500, Karshi wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I am having a problem using the CDRead/Writer on FreeBSD4.7. > > > It founds my CDWriter on "acd0" and the CDReader on "acd1", > > > but when I mount to "/cdrom" (/dev/acd0) the machine freezes for > > > few minutes. > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Do you have a cd in the drive? What kind of CD is it? Do you get > > any errors when you mount the drive? > > > > - Nick > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From evan at theunixman.com Fri Nov 22 09:54:33 2002 From: evan at theunixman.com (Evan Cofsky) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:54:33 +0000 Subject: [buug] rlogin In-Reply-To: <20021122004135.GA20622@primate.net> References: <20021121233703.GF1359@primate.net> <20021122003232.17803.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> <20021122004135.GA20622@primate.net> Message-ID: <20021122175433.GC9728@master.compound.theunixman.com> Of course, the Kerberized versions are pretty useful, and typically are released much sooner than the SSH Kerberos patch. They also support encrypted sessions. On 11/21 16:41, Aaron T Porter wrote: > On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 04:32:32PM -0800, Bob Read wrote: > > this is a great book about how to properly configure > > rlogin, .rhosts, and hosts.equiv so that rlogin and > > remsh are safe and secure from hackers: > > > > Passwords are soooo 90's. > > Forget r*, man ssh-agent and join the 21st century. > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug -- How much does it cost to entice a dope-smoking UNIX system guru to Dayton? -- UNIX/WORLD's First Annual Salary Survey, Brian Boyle Evan Cofsky, President, CEO Pacific Development Group From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Tue Nov 26 13:36:29 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:36:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] anybody used Paketto Keiretsu? Message-ID: <20021126213629.24708.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> This came through from securityfocus...anybody used these: http://www.doxpara.com/read.php/docs/pk_english.html here's an explanation: Paketto Keiretsu v1.0 by Effugas Relevant URL: http://www.doxpara.com Platforms: POSIX Summary: The Paketto Keiretsu is a collection of tools that use new and unusual strategies for manipulating TCP/IP networks. They tap functionality within existing infrastructure and stretch protocols beyond what they were originally intended for. It includes Scanrand, an unusually fast network service and topology discovery system, Minewt, a user space NAT/MAT router, linkcat, which presents a Ethernet link to stdio, Paratrace, which traces network paths without spawning new connections, and Phentropy, which uses OpenQVIS to render arbitrary amounts of entropy from data sources in three dimensional phase space. ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Exit Code Incorporated cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From john at landahl.org Tue Nov 26 13:47:51 2002 From: john at landahl.org (John Landahl) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:47:51 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory In-Reply-To: <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> Message-ID: <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 02:16:20PM -0800, Nick Jennings wrote: > Oooh maybe I can bring new life to my Pentium 200 :) Hey, no poking fun. I have a P200 32MB happily routing, firewalling, Squiding, BINDing, sendmailing, etc. for 4 or 5 people. :) -- John Landahl | http://landahl.org/john john at landahl.org | ICQ: 11191999 From nkj at namodn.com Tue Nov 26 14:04:47 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:04:47 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory In-Reply-To: <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org>; from john@landahl.org on Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:47:51PM -0800 References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> Message-ID: <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> Have you ever tried to run Mozilla on it ? :) On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 01:47:51PM -0800, John Landahl wrote: > On Sat, Nov 23, 2002 at 02:16:20PM -0800, Nick Jennings wrote: > > Oooh maybe I can bring new life to my Pentium 200 :) > > Hey, no poking fun. I have a P200 32MB happily routing, firewalling, Squiding, > BINDing, sendmailing, etc. for 4 or 5 people. :) > -- > John Landahl | http://landahl.org/john > john at landahl.org | ICQ: 11191999 > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From karshi.hasanov at utoronto.ca Tue Nov 26 15:40:34 2002 From: karshi.hasanov at utoronto.ca (Karshi) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:40:34 -0500 Subject: [buug] multiprocessing? Message-ID: <200211261840.34258.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca> Hi all, I run P4DC6+ motherboard (Supermicro) with one CPU (Xeon-1.8Ghz), and have a plan to put second one if there is a good reason for it. I am wondering if FreeBSD take any advantage of multiprocessors. I know that it does support SMPs ( so does Windows2000 or Linux), but am not sure if how much better it works compare other OS's. Thanks From jan at caustic.org Tue Nov 26 16:16:01 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:16:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] multiprocessing? In-Reply-To: <200211261840.34258.karshi.hasanov@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20021126161103.G87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Karshi wrote: > I run P4DC6+ motherboard (Supermicro) with one CPU (Xeon-1.8Ghz), and have > a plan to put second one if there is a good reason for it. the only reason for having a second CPU is if you're doing very math intensive applications, or need to use a second CPU for handling large databases. > I am wondering if FreeBSD take any advantage of multiprocessors. yes. > I know that it does support SMPs ( so does Windows2000 or Linux), but > am not sure if how much better it works compare other OS's. FreeBSD is fast, very fast. SMP doesn't always improve your compiling times, nor will it nessassarily make your machine noticably faster (bus speed, RAM speed, and DISK I/O will affect that first). what it will do, though, is increase the available CPU for handling applications. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Tue Nov 26 16:52:48 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:52:48 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory In-Reply-To: <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> Message-ID: <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner> On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 02:04:47PM -0800, Nick Jennings wrote: > Have you ever tried to run Mozilla on it ? :) I used to run Moz on my P200 (with 64MB or RAM). It took a while to load but once loaded, it ran just fine. Don't overestimate the specs necessary for a nice Linux desktop. From atporter at primate.net Tue Nov 26 17:09:23 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:09:23 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory In-Reply-To: <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner> References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner> Message-ID: <20021127010923.GF24599@primate.net> On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 04:52:48PM -0800, Claude Rubinson wrote: > I used to run Moz on my P200 (with 64MB or RAM). It took a while to > load but once loaded, it ran just fine. Don't overestimate the specs > necessary for a nice Linux desktop. Claude, you just have a *much* different definition of "nice" :) From nkj at namodn.com Tue Nov 26 17:42:35 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:42:35 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory In-Reply-To: <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner>; from cmsclaud@arches.uga.edu on Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 04:52:48PM -0800 References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner> Message-ID: <20021126174235.F29627@namodn.com> My 200mhz Pentium has 32mb of RAM and Mozilla (with Blackbox) runs so excruciatingly slow.... I tell ya, it was painfull :) On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 04:52:48PM -0800, Claude Rubinson wrote: > On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 02:04:47PM -0800, Nick Jennings wrote: > > Have you ever tried to run Mozilla on it ? :) > > I used to run Moz on my P200 (with 64MB or RAM). It took a while to > load but once loaded, it ran just fine. Don't overestimate the specs > necessary for a nice Linux desktop. > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From itz at speakeasy.org Tue Nov 26 18:03:48 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 26 Nov 2002 18:03:48 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory In-Reply-To: <20021126174235.F29627@namodn.com> References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner> <20021126174235.F29627@namodn.com> Message-ID: <86n0nvsr97.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Nick> My 200mhz Pentium has 32mb of RAM and Mozilla (with Blackbox) Nick> runs so excruciatingly slow.... I tell ya, it was painfull :) To put this all into perspective, the machine I upgraded with the kind assistance of Aaron has a K6/166. Do I use Mozilla? Yes, see the thread about 2.5 weeks ago. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. if (sizeof(signed) > sizeof(unsigned) + 4) { delete this; } GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 From wfhoney at pacbell.net Tue Nov 26 23:53:27 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:53:27 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner> Message-ID: <3DE479F7.7080401@pacbell.net> After Thursday's meeting, I broke down and put two more 128mb simms into my PII-233 ASUS. Mozilla had been thrashing for so long that I was ready to buy an upgrade machine. IMHO, Mozilla will not run on 64 meg. There was wwwwaaaaay too much swapping going on. Now, with 320Mb, Mozilla SCREAMS!!! (Well, maybe "shouts" is more accurate.) I'm stuffing my money back into that coffee can buried in the back yard...no new computer for me this year. Claude Rubinson wrote: > On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 02:04:47PM -0800, Nick Jennings wrote: > >>Have you ever tried to run Mozilla on it ? :) > > > I used to run Moz on my P200 (with 64MB or RAM). It took a while to > load but once loaded, it ran just fine. Don't overestimate the specs > necessary for a nice Linux desktop. From jammer at weak.org Wed Nov 27 09:14:32 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:14:32 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory In-Reply-To: <3DE479F7.7080401@pacbell.net> References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner> <3DE479F7.7080401@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20021127171432.GH615@weak.org> On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 11:53:27PM -0800, Bill Honeycutt wrote: > I'm stuffing my money back into that coffee can buried in the back > yard...no new computer for me this year. Hmm... I guess that means tonight I'll head over to Bill's house and look for freshly dug soil... Yay! New computer! :) -Jon From wfhoney at pacbell.net Wed Nov 27 09:38:31 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:38:31 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner> <3DE479F7.7080401@pacbell.net> <20021127171432.GH615@weak.org> Message-ID: <3DE50317.8030408@pacbell.net> Jon McClintock wrote: > > Hmm... I guess that means tonight I'll head over to Bill's house and > look for freshly dug soil... Bring your digital backhoe :-P From nkj at namodn.com Wed Nov 27 10:21:45 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:21:45 -0800 Subject: [buug] memory In-Reply-To: <3DE479F7.7080401@pacbell.net>; from wfhoney@pacbell.net on Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 11:53:27PM -0800 References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner> <3DE479F7.7080401@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20021127102145.C23317@namodn.com> On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 11:53:27PM -0800, Bill Honeycutt wrote: > After Thursday's meeting, I broke down and put two more 128mb simms into > my PII-233 ASUS. > > Mozilla had been thrashing for so long that I was ready to buy an > upgrade machine. IMHO, Mozilla will not run on 64 meg. There was > wwwwaaaaay too much swapping going on. > > Now, with 320Mb, Mozilla SCREAMS!!! (Well, maybe "shouts" is more > accurate.) Yeah, I agree, Mozilla's performance is mostly dependant on memory, not CPU. - Nick From rower at MovieEditor.com Wed Nov 27 10:36:59 2002 From: rower at MovieEditor.com (Robin Rowe) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 10:36:59 -0800 Subject: [buug] create .doc files on linux/BSD References: <20021122155055.11650.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005701c29643$f8d614b0$0901a8c0@tbird> Bob, > My question is: have any of you created .doc files > on linux/BSD, and what tool did you use? I haven't tried it, but you may be looking for wvWare. http://sourceforge.net/projects/wvware Cheers, Robin From bonkers at thetechbox.com Wed Nov 27 13:09:37 2002 From: bonkers at thetechbox.com (Matt Bockman) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:09:37 -0800 Subject: [buug] Hello Message-ID: <002201c29659$4ae39600$f300a8c0@bonkersxgxhvqp> Hello Everyone, My name is Matt and I'm a 14 year old computer techie dude. I live in San Diego, California. I'm trying to set up a replacement server for my old server. Actually, the server I'm going to replace it with is a little bit slower, about 500mhz less. My current server (thetechbox.com) runs Mandrake Linux and has the following functions: Route IP address (2 network cards) Serve Web PAges (thetechbox.com) email (Qmail) and I have FTP just for putting up my files and stuff for my site. I want to use my 350 machine to run FreeBSD, but I want to prepare it so that I can switch the servers and in a matter of a few minutes have them it up and running. That means I'll have to get apache, qmail, and NAT running before I move the server. The hard part about the whole thing is the email, which is worse yet because I'm putting another network card which will give me a diffrent IP address, so I"ll have to change it with my domain name thing. I guess I could switch the network cards so that my cable IP address remains the same. I don't know. I'm very new to FreeBSD and don't know a thing about it. ~Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john at landahl.org Wed Nov 27 14:27:33 2002 From: john at landahl.org (John Landahl) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 14:27:33 -0800 Subject: Browsers (was Re: [buug] memory) In-Reply-To: <3DE479F7.7080401@pacbell.net> References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner> <3DE479F7.7080401@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20021127222732.GA26084@localhost.landahl.org> On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 11:53:27PM -0800, Bill Honeycutt wrote: > Now, with 320Mb, Mozilla SCREAMS!!! (Well, maybe "shouts" is more > accurate.) You could say Opera screams. Having extensively used various versions of Mozilla, Opera, and Konqueror, lately I've been using Opera 6.1 almost exslusively. There are still aspects of Mozilla I like better, but in terms of overall usability I think Opera wins. - John From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Wed Nov 27 16:31:41 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:31:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] Hello In-Reply-To: <002201c29659$4ae39600$f300a8c0@bonkersxgxhvqp> Message-ID: <20021128003141.31181.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> Hey Matt, As far as network setup, you probably want to dedicate a router to your "techbox" IP address, and put your Mandrake/FreeBSD boxes "behind" the router. Then, you run NAT somewhere (probably on the router). This way, when you "switch", you just update your NAT settings. Later, Bob --- Matt Bockman wrote: > Hello Everyone, My name is Matt and I'm a 14 year > old computer techie dude. I live in San Diego, > California. I'm trying to set up a replacement > server for my old server. Actually, the server I'm > going to replace it with is a little bit slower, > about 500mhz less. My current server > (thetechbox.com) runs Mandrake Linux and has the > following functions: > > Route IP address (2 network cards) > Serve Web PAges (thetechbox.com) > email (Qmail) > and I have FTP just for putting up my files and > stuff for my site. > > I want to use my 350 machine to run FreeBSD, but I > want to prepare it so that I can switch the servers > and in a matter of a few minutes have them it up and > running. That means I'll have to get apache, qmail, > and NAT running before I move the server. The hard > part about the whole thing is the email, which is > worse yet because I'm putting another network card > which will give me a diffrent IP address, so I"ll > have to change it with my domain name thing. I guess > I could switch the network cards so that my cable IP > address remains the same. I don't know. I'm very new > to FreeBSD and don't know a thing about it. > > ~Matt > ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Exit Code Incorporated cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From bonkers at thetechbox.com Wed Nov 27 16:40:47 2002 From: bonkers at thetechbox.com (Matt Bockman) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:40:47 -0800 Subject: [buug] Hello References: <20021128003141.31181.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003f01c29676$cb160340$f300a8c0@bonkersxgxhvqp> Well, right now my router is my main server, are you reccommending that I run 2 boxes, one as a firewall/router another as my server? I don't have the resources to run two boxes, I can only have one server and it must run all of the networking services. ~Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Read" To: "Matt Bockman" ; Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [buug] Hello > Hey Matt, > As far as network setup, you probably want to > dedicate a router to your "techbox" IP address, and > put your Mandrake/FreeBSD boxes "behind" the router. > Then, you run NAT somewhere (probably on the router). > This way, when you "switch", you just update your NAT > settings. > > Later, > Bob > > > --- Matt Bockman wrote: > > Hello Everyone, My name is Matt and I'm a 14 year > > old computer techie dude. I live in San Diego, > > California. I'm trying to set up a replacement > > server for my old server. Actually, the server I'm > > going to replace it with is a little bit slower, > > about 500mhz less. My current server > > (thetechbox.com) runs Mandrake Linux and has the > > following functions: > > > > Route IP address (2 network cards) > > Serve Web PAges (thetechbox.com) > > email (Qmail) > > and I have FTP just for putting up my files and > > stuff for my site. > > > > I want to use my 350 machine to run FreeBSD, but I > > want to prepare it so that I can switch the servers > > and in a matter of a few minutes have them it up and > > running. That means I'll have to get apache, qmail, > > and NAT running before I move the server. The hard > > part about the whole thing is the email, which is > > worse yet because I'm putting another network card > > which will give me a diffrent IP address, so I"ll > > have to change it with my domain name thing. I guess > > I could switch the network cards so that my cable IP > > address remains the same. I don't know. I'm very new > > to FreeBSD and don't know a thing about it. > > > > ~Matt > > > > > ===== > ----------------------------------------- > Bob Read > Exit Code Incorporated > cell (510)-703-1634 > unixjavabob at yahoo.com > ----------------------------------------- > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Nov 27 17:59:28 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:59:28 -0800 Subject: Browsers (was Re: [buug] memory) In-Reply-To: <20021127222732.GA26084@localhost.landahl.org> References: <86el9d8bnm.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> <20021123141620.A17405@namodn.com> <20021126214751.GA23723@localhost.landahl.org> <20021126140447.O1895@namodn.com> <20021127005248.GB1932@wagner> <3DE479F7.7080401@pacbell.net> <20021127222732.GA26084@localhost.landahl.org> Message-ID: <20021128015928.GA10059@linuxmafia.com> Quoting John Landahl (john at landahl.org): > You could say Opera screams. Put it out of its misery, and install Galeon or Phoenix. Which are both not only excellent, but also open source. -- Cheers, kill -9 them all. Rick Moen Let init sort it out. rick at linuxmafia.com From bonkers at thetechbox.com Thu Nov 28 00:51:05 2002 From: bonkers at thetechbox.com (Matt Bockman) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:51:05 -0800 Subject: [buug] I installed Apache... but Message-ID: <000801c296bb$496bfda0$f300a8c0@bonkersxgxhvqp> How do I get apache to work? I went to /usr/ports/www/apache13 and did: make make install how do I proceed to running a web server from here? I also need to have php/mysql, perl, and parsing...like...SSI. Thanks in Advanced... ~Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john at jjdev.com Thu Nov 28 01:49:12 2002 From: john at jjdev.com (John de la Garza) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 01:49:12 -0800 Subject: [buug] I installed Apache... but In-Reply-To: <000801c296bb$496bfda0$f300a8c0@bonkersxgxhvqp> Message-ID: On Thursday, November 28, 2002, at 12:51 AM, Matt Bockman wrote: > How do I get apache to work? I went to /usr/ports/www/apache13 and did: > ? > make > make install did you run the configure script first? > ? > how do I proceed to running a web server from here? I also need to > have php/mysql, perl, and parsing...like...SSI. you have to download php and mysql then build them (similar to building apache) Perl will probably be ready depending on what you want to do with it like SSI? do you mean SSI? also, your question, 'how do I proceed to running a web server', what exactly do you mean? to start apache you can run the httpd binary by just typing the name (use the complete path) example: /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd or you can do /usr/local/apache/bin/apachctl start > ? > Thanks in Advanced... > ? > ~Matt From nkj at namodn.com Thu Nov 28 12:12:38 2002 From: nkj at namodn.com (Nick Jennings) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:12:38 -0800 Subject: [buug] I installed Apache... but In-Reply-To: <000801c296bb$496bfda0$f300a8c0@bonkersxgxhvqp>; from bonkers@thetechbox.com on Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 12:51:05AM -0800 References: <000801c296bb$496bfda0$f300a8c0@bonkersxgxhvqp> Message-ID: <20021128121238.C3349@namodn.com> Hi Matt, On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 12:51:05AM -0800, Matt Bockman wrote: > How do I get apache to work? I went to /usr/ports/www/apache13 and did: > > make > make install That should do it... Though I preffer Apache2 myself. :) > how do I proceed to running a web server from here? I also need to have > php/mysql, perl, and parsing...like...SSI. To get apache to start during system boot, go to /usr/local/etc/rc.d and make sure the apache.sh is executable (it might be something like, apache.sh.example in which case you'd want to move it to apache.sh and chmod +x apache.sh) Like John mention, apachectl is your friend. Whenever you modify the Apache config files, you will want to run apachectl configtest (i think) and it will let you know if the config it all OK. (it should catch most cases). Perl should be ready to go, PHP I don't know. As to SSI, what do you mean?? - Nick From wfhoney at pacbell.net Thu Nov 28 12:21:36 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 12:21:36 -0800 Subject: [buug] I installed Apache... but References: <000801c296bb$496bfda0$f300a8c0@bonkersxgxhvqp> Message-ID: <3DE67AD0.5000403@pacbell.net> Matt, Apache.org has good instructions... http://httpd.apache.org/docs/install.html ...or check out this very good paper for a bit more advanced installation: http://www.devshed.com/Server_Side/PHP/SoothinglySeamless/page1.html Matt Bockman wrote: > How do I get apache to work? I went to /usr/ports/www/apache13 and did: > > make > make install > > how do I proceed to running a web server from here? I also need to have > php/mysql, perl, and parsing...like...SSI. > > Thanks in Advanced... > > ~Matt From john at jjdev.com Fri Nov 29 18:31:52 2002 From: john at jjdev.com (johnd) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 02:31:52 +0000 Subject: [buug] nfs - can't umount Message-ID: <20021130023152.GB8225@master.compound.theunixman.com> anyone know why I can't umount a nfs mount? my client is MacOS X, my server is Linux 2.4.18 this is what I get: bash-2.05a$ sudo /sbin/umount stang /sbin/umount: stang: Permission denied bash-2.05a$ the logger says: Nov 29 18:29:46 cpe-66-27-244-5 sudo: john : TTY=ttyp3 ; PWD=/Users/john ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/sbin/umount stang From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Fri Nov 29 20:06:31 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:06:31 -0800 Subject: [buug] ANN: makelabels Message-ID: <20021130040631.GA20813@wagner> A few months back, I asked about programs for printing mailing labels. As I was never able to find anything that met my needs, I ended up hacking together a solution of my own. Brief description is below. Available for download from my personal website at http://www.grundrisse.org/hacks/. > makelabels is a program for creating PostScript files for printing > onto peel-off mailing label sheets. Similar programs already exist > (see the PostScript::MailLabels module and LabelNation); however, I > found that these programs were not quite flexible enough to meet my > needs. In particular, this program supports printing text of an > arbitrary length and includes facilities for specifying the > positioning of the text to be printed (in order to accommodate > labels with pre-printed company logos, for example). Claude From jan at caustic.org Fri Nov 29 20:19:15 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:19:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] nfs - can't umount In-Reply-To: <20021130023152.GB8225@master.compound.theunixman.com> Message-ID: <20021129201842.R87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, johnd wrote: > anyone know why I can't umount a nfs mount? are you sure nothing is using the mount point? -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends." -- Tom Waits From john at jjdev.com Fri Nov 29 20:37:28 2002 From: john at jjdev.com (johnd) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 04:37:28 +0000 Subject: [buug] nfs - can't umount In-Reply-To: <20021129201842.R87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> References: <20021130023152.GB8225@master.compound.theunixman.com> <20021129201842.R87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20021130043728.GB9491@master.compound.theunixman.com> On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 08:19:15PM -0800, f.johan.beisser wrote: > On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, johnd wrote: > > > anyone know why I can't umount a nfs mount? > > are you sure nothing is using the mount point? yea... I just realized the userid's are not the same on both boxes. From allenshao at yahoo.com Fri Nov 29 20:39:42 2002 From: allenshao at yahoo.com (allen shao) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:39:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] nfs - can't umount In-Reply-To: <20021129201842.R87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20021130043942.8606.qmail@web20414.mail.yahoo.com> Or, there is something (mount points) under your mount point mounted. If that's the case, unmount that first. --- "f.johan.beisser" wrote: > On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, johnd wrote: > > > anyone know why I can't umount a nfs mount? > > are you sure nothing is using the mount point? > > -------/ f. johan beisser > /--------------------------------------+ > http://caustic.org/~jan > jan at caustic.org > "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for > my sham friends." -- Tom Waits > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Fri Nov 29 20:46:59 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:46:59 -0800 Subject: [buug] On missing data Message-ID: <20021130044658.GB20813@wagner> One of the issues that I've been dealing with for the survey that I'm administering is handling missing data. Coding missing data hasn't posed much of a problem -- basically, I just code the fact that the data is missing and then the reason why. But now I'm beginning to face the issue of handling the missing data in my data analysis programs and I'm wondering about the intersection between missing data and computer programming. I haven't run into any specific problems yet; rather, I'm curious about the theory of missing data within computer science (in other words, at this point, it's more of an academic curiosity than a pressing problem). If I sound a bit vague, it's because I'm a bit unclear as how to phrase my question. Basically, in both survey design and database design, a great deal of attention is given to the issue of missing data (e.g., What constitutes missing data? How do you code it? How does one type of missing data differ from another type? And how does all of this affect your analysis?). I assume that there are similar discussions within computer science but, outside of discussions of error-handling, I haven't found any references in any of my texts (e.g. _Practice of Programming_, Code Complete, etc). In one of my database texts, I did find a reference to a compsci paper identifying "14 different types of incomplete data...including overflows, underflows, errors, and other problems in trying to represent the real world within the limits of a computer." I think that I'm looking for something along those lines -- how does missing data present itself within computer programming and how do you respond to it? If anyone could provide any pointers or references, that would be great. Thanks. Claude From john at jjdev.com Fri Nov 29 20:56:39 2002 From: john at jjdev.com (johnd) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 04:56:39 +0000 Subject: [buug] nfs - can't umount In-Reply-To: <20021130043942.8606.qmail@web20414.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20021129201842.R87289-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20021130043942.8606.qmail@web20414.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20021130045639.GA10841@master.compound.theunixman.com> On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 08:39:42PM -0800, allen shao wrote: > Or, there is something (mount points) under your mount > point mounted. If that's the case, unmount that first. > nope... From itz at speakeasy.org Fri Nov 29 23:56:17 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 29 Nov 2002 23:56:17 -0800 Subject: [buug] On missing data In-Reply-To: <20021130044658.GB20813@wagner> References: <20021130044658.GB20813@wagner> Message-ID: <86lm3bze1q.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Claude> But now I'm beginning to face the issue of handling the Claude> missing data in my data analysis programs and I'm wondering Claude> about the intersection between missing data and computer Claude> programming. I haven't run into any specific problems yet; Claude> rather, I'm curious about the theory of missing data within Claude> computer science (in other words, at this point, it's more of Claude> an academic curiosity than a pressing problem). In type/domain theory, this situation is usually modelled by adjoining an extra value to the type; that is, by forming a new type T' that is the disjoint union of the original type T and a one-element type that represents the absence of proper value. The strongly typed functional languages I like support this directly, like so in Standard ML: datatype result = Value of real | Missing ; and then in code that deals with this type you use a switch-like statement to exhaust all cases: sliding_average := case get_new_sample() of Value(r) => (update queue !i r; i := (!i+1) mod num_samples; sum queue / num_samples) | Missing => !sliding_average or something like that. OOP believers (of which I used to be one) hate this, and will instead invent a base type of which both Value and Missing are subtypes, and equip the base type with operations so that users of the type don't have to distinguish the cases. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. if (sizeof(signed) > sizeof(unsigned) + 4) { delete this; } GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 From kevinarmstr0ng at hotmail.com Sat Nov 30 17:25:56 2002 From: kevinarmstr0ng at hotmail.com (Kevin Armstrong) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 17:25:56 -0800 Subject: [buug] nfs - can't umount Message-ID: First things first. I'm not too familiar with OS X. Although from what I understand and from what I've seen, OS X seems to be a pretty good OS. Furthermore, I'm unfamiliar with OS X's NFS but if it's anything like FreeBSD or Linux, trouble shooting the problem should be relatively easy. The fact that you posted a message requesting assistance on how to umount an NFS file system suggests that you've already managed to successfully mount an NFS file system. When trying to umount any FS you must be certain that no other process or user is accessing that mount. The common mistake made while trying to umount is made when users try to umount while their pwd is in the mounted directory. So be sure to be out of the NFS mount before attempting to umount. Next, type "mount" to see if the NFS mount is actually mounted, or simply do a "ls" on the NFS mount to see if you get a directory listing. If not you may have a stale NFS mount. Another option would be to unshare or unexport your remote file system. I also noticed that you were using sudo to umount your NFS file system. (I saw something similar to this while searching the web). Did you try su'ing to root and try umounting the NFS filesystem? These are merely suggestions and avenues I would pursue while attempting to umount the file system. While trying to get some ideas on how to umount NFS mounts in OS X, I came across some pretty good sites that looked like they had some good info. http://www.withay.com/macosx/nfs-client.html#netinfocli http://www.tenon.com/support/itools/nfs/ There are tons more out there. Good luck. >From: johnd >To: buug at weak.org >Subject: [buug] nfs - can't umount >Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 02:31:52 +0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from weak.org ([216.103.110.222]) by mc2-f23.law16.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:35:58 -0800 >Received: from weak.org (list at localhost [127.0.0.1])by weak.org >(8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id gAU2ZANe025894;Fri, 29 Nov 2002 >18:35:10 -0800 >Received: from rj01.rjcons.com ([207.199.88.50])by weak.org >(8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id gAU2XINe025863for ; >Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:33:18 -0800 >Received: from theunixman.com (35-28.worldsite.net [209.134.35.28] (may be >forged))by rj01.rjcons.com (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id gAU2WB906225for >; Fri, 29 Nov 2002 18:32:11 -0800 >Received: from master.compound.theunixman.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])by >theunixman.com (8.12.6/8.12.3) with ESMTP id gAU2Vqjs008344for >; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 02:31:52 GMT >Received: (from john at localhost)by master.compound.theunixman.com >(8.12.6/8.12.3/Submit) id gAU2VqDr008343for buug at weak.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2002 >02:31:52 GMT >Message-ID: <20021130023152.GB8225 at master.compound.theunixman.com> >User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i >X-Spam-Status: No >X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.24 (www . roaringpenguin . com / mimedefang) >Sender: buug-admin at weak.org >Errors-To: buug-admin at weak.org >X-BeenThere: buug at weak.org >X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 >Precedence: bulk >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Id: Berkeley Unix User Group >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >Return-Path: buug-admin at weak.org >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Nov 2002 02:35:58.0657 (UTC) >FILETIME=[3724FB10:01C29819] > >anyone know why I can't umount a nfs mount? > >my client is MacOS X, my server is Linux 2.4.18 > >this is what I get: > >bash-2.05a$ sudo /sbin/umount stang >/sbin/umount: stang: Permission denied >bash-2.05a$ > >the logger says: > >Nov 29 18:29:46 cpe-66-27-244-5 sudo: john : TTY=ttyp3 ; >PWD=/Users/john ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/sbin/umount stang > >_______________________________________________ >Buug mailing list >Buug at weak.org >http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail