From billoomal at yahoo.com Tue Sep 3 16:51:51 2002 From: billoomal at yahoo.com (HD) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Clusters Message-ID: <20020903235151.22189.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I have been considering trying to glue together the few boxes (x86 and sparcs) that I have and create and cluster and toy around with it. Until recently, I was under the impression that beowulfs are probably the best way to do something like that. I did some more reading and am quite confused now. I read some stuff about Mosix, and ClusterIt. Can someone explain in simpler terms, the differences between beowulfs, and mosix and ClusterIt clusters? Cheers! HD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From jan at caustic.org Tue Sep 3 16:59:54 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Clusters In-Reply-To: <20020903235151.22189.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020903165337.L45362-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, HD wrote: > Can someone explain in simpler terms, the differences > between beowulfs, and mosix and ClusterIt clusters? i can try. Beowulf - Massively Parralell Processing Cluster. akin to making your own Cray Supercomputer. Generally requires identical hardware. ClusterIt - more along the lines of distributed processing than paralell systems. Mosix seems to be akin to clusterit. beowulf used to be a pain to set up and design. the advantage, of course, is that with a little programming savy, you could have an MPP machine for much less than the cost of a Cray. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From hedges at ucsd.edu Wed Sep 4 10:19:10 2002 From: hedges at ucsd.edu (Mark Hedges) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Clusters In-Reply-To: <20020903165337.L45362-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, f.johan.beisser wrote: > beowulf used to be a pain to set up and design. the advantage, of course, > is that with a little programming savy, you could have an MPP machine for > much less than the cost of a Cray. There's a Debian package called FAI (fully automatic installation) that the creator wrote primarily to set up a cluster of beowulf machines. It should make things easier. I was wondering myself, do beowulf nodes have to run on identitcal machines? Can a beowulf run on disparate units? Would it just bottleneck processing speed to the slowest CPU? Does anyone care to explain the difference between parallel computing and distributed computing? --mark-- From billoomal at yahoo.com Wed Sep 4 10:34:08 2002 From: billoomal at yahoo.com (HD) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Clusters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020904173408.27524.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com> > Does anyone care to explain the difference between > parallel > computing and distributed computing? That is something I have been confused with too. Additionally, does Mosix provide, a single SMP style image? If so, do applications have to be written to take advantage of this kind of setup, or do generic applications (i.e. netscape, openoffice, etc.) take advantage of this distributed system and does Mosix fork the process over to other nodes?? Cheers! HD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From jeremy at nirvani.net Wed Sep 4 10:46:07 2002 From: jeremy at nirvani.net (Jeremy Brand, B.S.) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Clusters In-Reply-To: <20020904173408.27524.qmail@web13006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Additionally, does Mosix provide, a single SMP style > image? If so, do applications have to be written to > take advantage of this kind of setup, or do generic > applications (i.e. netscape, openoffice, etc.) take > advantage of this distributed system and does Mosix > fork the process over to other nodes?? The idea behind Mosix is that you can use your normal applications, which is different from parallel computing and beowulf. For normal applications to take advantage of mosix, they would need to be able to take advantage of a normal SMP linux setup - meaning, mostly, that they have child processes that can be thrown onto the other CPU, or in Mosix's case on other machines. Jeremy From jan at caustic.org Wed Sep 4 11:55:26 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Clusters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020904113239.Q45362-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Mark Hedges wrote: > I was wondering myself, do beowulf nodes have to run on > identitcal machines? Can a beowulf run on disparate units? > Would it just bottleneck processing speed to the slowest CPU? my understanding is that modern beowulf clusters do not need identical machines anymore. although, it's usually less expensive to have them identical anyway. > Does anyone care to explain the difference between parallel > computing and distributed computing? sure, i can try. distributed computing involves breaking a problem down in to small sections before handing out each section to a given CPU. for example, distributed.net has a client that grabs sections of a given problem, and computes results, before handing those sections back to the central server. it's a good way to handling brute force computational tasks (such as breaking cryptography..) parallel computing is more complex. instead of breaking a task down to smaller bits, you have many parts computed at once. the main focus of this is that you don't assign a single process to a single node (CPU). that one process may have n+1* nodes in use at any time. that's my understanding, at least. * - n+1 nodes means that you have the base node that's handling most I/O for that process, +n nodes that are assigned to assist in running the program. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From ms at formulae.org Wed Sep 4 13:13:36 2002 From: ms at formulae.org (Michael Salmon) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 13:13:36 -0700 Subject: [buug] Clusters In-Reply-To: References: <20020903165337.L45362-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20020904131336.D84860@formulae.org> On Wed, Sep 04, 2002 at 10:19:10AM -0700, Mark Hedges wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, f.johan.beisser wrote: > > beowulf used to be a pain to set up and design. the advantage, of course, > > is that with a little programming savy, you could have an MPP machine for > > much less than the cost of a Cray. > > There's a Debian package called FAI (fully automatic > installation) that the creator wrote primarily to set up a > cluster of beowulf machines. It should make things easier. > > I was wondering myself, do beowulf nodes have to run on > identitcal machines? Can a beowulf run on disparate units? > Would it just bottleneck processing speed to the slowest CPU? > > Does anyone care to explain the difference between parallel > computing and distributed computing? Distributed and parallel computing are spoken of nearly interchangably because for most people they mean the same thing. Distributed computing is based on parallel computing and it basically is parallel computing over a network with hetergenous components, while parallel computing began on multi-processor machines with homogenous components. In academics you'll see more about parallel computing then distributed computing simply because to most researchers the distributed part of parallel computing is just a new implementation of parallel computing. Computer science classes will focus on parallel algorithms, like how to do 3d volume rendering in parallel. Once the algorithm is designed, whether it runs on 2 cpus on a smp machine or over two cpus over tcp/ip isnt very important. If the distributed management framework is designed properly it simply wont matter. If you are interested in parallel computing, I recommend you learn a parallel programming language like NESL. http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~scandal/nesl/tutorial2.html I've never used Beowulf. Since I dont have a degree in computer science knowledge of parallel computing is basically worthless to me though. > --mark-- ms From evans at ncseweb.org Wed Sep 4 14:07:43 2002 From: evans at ncseweb.org (Skip Evans) Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 14:07:43 -0700 Subject: [buug] attachments through majordomo? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020904140305.027e36c0@mail.mindspring.com> Hey All, I'm having a weird thing with majordomo. If I send through an email with attachments, some of the time it comes through, other times it doesn't. I think it may have to do with the size of the attachment? A 2k attachment goes through okay, but a 45K one doesn't. Is this configurable somewhere? I will be stripping attachments once the lists are public to prevent viruses coming through, but I'd still like to know what the issue is to begin with. Thanks! By the way, is there a BUUG meeting this Thursday? Skip Evans Network Project Director National Center for Science Education 420 40th St, Suite 2 Oakland, CA 94609 510-601-7203 510-601-7204 (fax) 800-290-6006 evans at ncseweb.org http://www.ncseweb.org NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. To sign up send: subscribe ncse your at email.address to: majordomo at inia.cls.org From itz at speakeasy.org Wed Sep 4 20:48:04 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 04 Sep 2002 20:48:04 -0700 Subject: [buug] attachments through majordomo? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020904140305.027e36c0@mail.mindspring.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020904140305.027e36c0@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <86k7m1w0zv.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Skip> Hey All, I'm having a weird thing with majordomo. If I send Skip> through an email with attachments, some of the time it comes Skip> through, other times it doesn't. I think it may have to do with Skip> the size of the attachment? A 2k attachment goes through okay, Skip> but a 45K one doesn't. Is this configurable somewhere? This would be something you configure in the mail daemon (sendmail), not in majordomo. But it's hard to think of a reasonable configuration that would stop a 45k message nowadays. At my last job I drew the line at 10M, but even that was too draconian to some people. What happens if you send a plain message (no attachments) that size? And when it fails, does it bounce or what? What does the sendmail log say, did sendmail ever see it? Skip> By the way, is there a BUUG meeting this Thursday? I think so, reminder: we intended to exchange GPG key signatures. By the way: I am trying to help, but as others have already said, the unwrapped lines are irritating. If Eudora can't do this for you, how about switching to a mail program that can? Though in my experience Eudora is among the better PC clients, and should have this simple feature. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From billoomal at yahoo.com Thu Sep 5 10:43:28 2002 From: billoomal at yahoo.com (HD) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Linux SCSI Controller Support Message-ID: <20020905174328.49659.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, On one of my boxes, I have a NCL 300R scsi controller. It is a 16 bit asynchronous scs1-2 card, probably purchased sometime in the 1997/1998. I was trying to resurrect the system last nite by installing RH7.0. All devices on the box are scsi, and I was having a problem getting Linux to detect the card. When I boot the box, the bios scans the scsi bus and detects all the 4 devices on it. Is there anyway I can treat it as a generic 16 bit ISA scsi host? If so, which drivers should I use? Cheers! HD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From atporter at primate.net Thu Sep 5 10:53:15 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:53:15 -0700 Subject: [buug] Linux SCSI Controller Support In-Reply-To: <20020905174328.49659.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020905174328.49659.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020905175315.GC22104@primate.net> On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 10:43:28AM -0700, HD wrote: > On one of my boxes, I have a NCL 300R scsi controller. > It is a 16 bit asynchronous scs1-2 card, probably > purchased sometime in the 1997/1998. I was trying to > resurrect the system last nite by installing RH7.0. Unforunately there's no such thing as a Generic SCSI driver. NCL is a fairly obscure manufacturer, and Google doesn't seem to have any info on the actual chipset for that card. Can you get linux to boot at all (off an IDE drive, etc)? If so, using the lspci command might provide some useful info. From billoomal at yahoo.com Thu Sep 5 11:03:47 2002 From: billoomal at yahoo.com (HD) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 11:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Linux SCSI Controller Support In-Reply-To: <20020905175315.GC22104@primate.net> Message-ID: <20020905180347.3001.qmail@web13004.mail.yahoo.com> > Can you get > linux to boot at all (off > an IDE drive, etc)? If so, using the lspci command > might provide some > useful info. I could attach an IDE cdrom drive, and then try to exit to shell. Is that what you are alluding to? You mentioned, I could use lspci, but will that work considering the fact that the controller card is an ISA device? Cheers! HD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From hedges at ucsd.edu Thu Sep 5 13:28:10 2002 From: hedges at ucsd.edu (Mark Hedges) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] attachments through majordomo? In-Reply-To: <86k7m1w0zv.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: `pine` wraps everything nicely to an xterm. --mark-- On 4 Sep 2002, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > By the way: I am trying to help, but as others have already said, the > unwrapped lines are irritating. If Eudora can't do this for you, > how about switching to a mail program that can? Though in my > experience Eudora is among the better PC clients, and should have this > simple feature. > From itz at speakeasy.org Thu Sep 5 13:33:08 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 05 Sep 2002 13:33:08 -0700 Subject: [buug] c++ book recommendation Message-ID: <86u1l4dvnf.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Does anyone know of a book that covers the _entire_ C++ standard library (STL _and_ strings _and_ utils like auto_ptr) in a readable (not necessarily complete) way? -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From jeremy at nirvani.net Thu Sep 5 13:43:40 2002 From: jeremy at nirvani.net (Jeremy Brand, B.S.) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] c++ book recommendation In-Reply-To: <86u1l4dvnf.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: Thus spake Ian Zimmerman: > Does anyone know of a book that covers the _entire_ C++ standard > library (STL _and_ strings _and_ utils like auto_ptr) in a readable > (not necessarily complete) way? I would have to recommend "The C++ Programming Language" by Bjarne Stroustrup. I don't know anyone that would know more about C++ than him ;) I had the 1st edition, and it had lots of detail and was very readable (for me). Amazon link if interested... 3rd edition http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201700735 Jeremy From itz at speakeasy.org Thu Sep 5 13:47:21 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 05 Sep 2002 13:47:21 -0700 Subject: [buug] attachments through majordomo? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86ptvsduzq.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> itz> By the way: I am trying to help, but as others have already said, itz> the unwrapped lines are irritating. If Eudora can't do this for itz> you, how about switching to a mail program that can? Though in itz> my experience Eudora is among the better PC clients, and should itz> have this simple feature. Mark> `pine` wraps everything nicely to an xterm. I can do that in my client too, in fact I can set it up depeding on the list I'm reading. But in a computing-related list people will sometimes post code, which will get mangled by auto-wrapping on the reader end. AFAIK this was part of the rationale for the original Usenet convention of writer-end wrapping. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From itz at speakeasy.org Thu Sep 5 13:50:15 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 05 Sep 2002 13:50:15 -0700 Subject: [buug] c++ book recommendation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86lm6gduuw.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> itz> Does anyone know of a book that covers the _entire_ C++ standard itz> library (STL _and_ strings _and_ utils like auto_ptr) in a itz> readable (not necessarily complete) way? Jeremy> I would have to recommend "The C++ Programming Language" by Jeremy> Bjarne Stroustrup. I don't know anyone that would know more Jeremy> about C++ than him ;) I had the 1st edition, and it had lots Jeremy> of detail and was very readable (for me). I had the _second_ edition, and that was out long before the library was standardized, so it could not have possibly been covered. :-P -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Sep 5 13:54:56 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:54:56 -0700 Subject: [buug] Linux SCSI Controller Support In-Reply-To: <20020905174328.49659.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020905174328.49659.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020905205456.GU12787@linuxmafia.com> Quoting HD (billoomal at yahoo.com): > On one of my boxes, I have a NCL 300R scsi controller. Wow. An NCL America card. I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but that is an extremely unusual and exotic card. I don't think you're going to have any luck. -- Cheers, "By reading this sentence, you agree to be bound by the Rick Moen terms of the Internet Protocol, version 4, or, at your rick at linuxmafia.com option, any later version." -- Seth David Schoen From sobolak at myrealbox.com Thu Sep 5 14:04:30 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 16:04:30 -0500 Subject: [buug] c++ book recommendation Message-ID: <1031259870.6df6e940sobolak@myrealbox.com> itz> Does anyone know of a book that covers the _entire_ C++ standard itz> library (STL _and_ strings _and_ utils like auto_ptr) in a itz> readable (not necessarily complete) way? Google for Al Williams. He writes the C++ columns for Dr. Dobb's and might have done a book review. Or you might poke around their book reviews. Bruce Eckel might have something for you too, though this might be aimed too closely at the beginner: http://64.78.49.204/ brian -- Brian Sobolak http://www.planetshwoop.com/ sobolak at myrealbox.com From jeremy at nirvani.net Thu Sep 5 14:05:25 2002 From: jeremy at nirvani.net (Jeremy Brand, B.S.) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 14:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] c++ book recommendation In-Reply-To: <86lm6gduuw.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: Thus spake Ian Zimmerman: > itz> Does anyone know of a book that covers the _entire_ C++ standard > itz> library (STL _and_ strings _and_ utils like auto_ptr) in a > itz> readable (not necessarily complete) way? > > Jeremy> I would have to recommend "The C++ Programming Language" by > Jeremy> Bjarne Stroustrup. I don't know anyone that would know more > Jeremy> about C++ than him ;) I had the 1st edition, and it had lots > Jeremy> of detail and was very readable (for me). > > I had the _second_ edition, and that was out long before the library > was standardized, so it could not have possibly been covered. This is why I send the link to the 3rd edition. :-P To quote Amazon.com: "In this brand-new third edition of The C++ Programming Language, author Bjarne Stroustrup, the creator of C++, presents the full specification for ---------------------- the C++ language and standard library, a spec that will soon become the ------------------------------------- joint ISO/ANSI C++ standard." :) Jeremy From sobolak at myrealbox.com Thu Sep 5 14:18:45 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 16:18:45 -0500 Subject: [buug] Book suggestion (mildly off-topic) Message-ID: <1031260725.6df6e940sobolak@myrealbox.com> hi While flying yesterday, I read a very neat and thought-provoking book I thought I'd share with the group. "Small Pieces Loosely Joined" goes beyond looking at internet communications (he uses web to mean email, IM, usenet, www) to discuss what the Internet is, what it means to us, and investigates why we like it so much. His conclusion-that the Web embraces our irrationality as humans instead of the enlightened, rational selves that we often expect-is wonderful. While getting there, he goes down lots of side tracks of technology (how much data is on the Internet backbone at any one second?), philosophy, language, buying cars, being a parent, and many others. Very cool. You can read some of it online at http://www.smallpieces.com/. The chapter "Knowledge" is particularly good, though unfortunately not available online. Anyway, if you're tired of grinding through the latest about the BEEP protocol, Java Beehives in a Nutshell, or any other technology book, this one is a refreshing break. brian -- Brian Sobolak http://www.planetshwoop.com/ sobolak at myrealbox.com From ms at formulae.org Thu Sep 5 15:50:16 2002 From: ms at formulae.org (Michael Salmon) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:50:16 -0700 Subject: [buug] c++ book recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <86lm6gduuw.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20020905155016.A6030@formulae.org> On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 02:05:25PM -0700, Jeremy Brand, B.S. wrote: > Thus spake Ian Zimmerman: > > > itz> Does anyone know of a book that covers the _entire_ C++ standard > > itz> library (STL _and_ strings _and_ utils like auto_ptr) in a > > itz> readable (not necessarily complete) way? > > > > Jeremy> I would have to recommend "The C++ Programming Language" by > > Jeremy> Bjarne Stroustrup. I don't know anyone that would know more > > Jeremy> about C++ than him ;) I had the 1st edition, and it had lots > > Jeremy> of detail and was very readable (for me). > > > > I had the _second_ edition, and that was out long before the library > > was standardized, so it could not have possibly been covered. > > This is why I send the link to the 3rd edition. :-P > > To quote Amazon.com: > "In this brand-new third edition of The C++ Programming Language, author > Bjarne Stroustrup, the creator of C++, presents the full specification for > ---------------------- > the C++ language and standard library, a spec that will soon become the > ------------------------------------- > joint ISO/ANSI C++ standard." I agree. If you know how to program already then the book by B. Stroustrup is the way to go. Think of it as the Camel book for c++, except minus the humour and written for an even worse language then perl (amazingly it is possible to have a worse language then perl). Also, www.accu.org (association of c and c++ users) has a great book review section. > :) > Jeremy ms From billoomal at yahoo.com Thu Sep 5 15:53:05 2002 From: billoomal at yahoo.com (HD) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:53:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Linux SCSI Controller Support In-Reply-To: <20020905222550.GZ12787@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020905225305.25534.qmail@web13001.mail.yahoo.com> > > Wow. An NCL America card. I'm sorry to have to > > tell you this, but that > > is an extremely unusual and exotic card. I don't > > think you're going to > > have any luck. Bummer :( I was really looking forward to bringing that box back to life, and I have four devices for it too. Two drives and a writer and a cd-rom. So there is no way absolutely, that it can be treated as some generic vanilla card?? As for the card, do you think some collector may want it ;) Cheers! HD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Sep 5 16:07:28 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:07:28 -0700 Subject: [buug] Linux SCSI Controller Support In-Reply-To: <20020905225305.25534.qmail@web13001.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020905222550.GZ12787@linuxmafia.com> <20020905225305.25534.qmail@web13001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020905230728.GB12787@linuxmafia.com> Quoting HD (billoomal at yahoo.com): > I was really looking forward to bringing that box back to life, and I > have four devices for it too. Two drives and a writer and a cd-rom. > So there is no way absolutely, that it can be treated as some generic > vanilla card?? Not to the best of my ability to tell. You could of course construct a Linux system with that as a secondary host adapter, and then keep trying "modprobe" of various SCSI driver modules, to see if one suddenly works (because your card's chipset happened to be a clone of the one the driver was for). > As for the card, do you think some collector may want it ;) Stranger things have happened. Speaking for myself, I make a point of putting bizarre and problematic hardware firmly in the rubbish bin: Even giving it away raises the risk of its recipient coming back to you for help. -- Resize your browser so the following line touches both margins!
Best Regards, Rick Moen, rick at linuxmafia.com From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Sep 5 16:30:24 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:30:24 -0700 Subject: [buug] attachments through majordomo? In-Reply-To: <86k7m1w0zv.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020904140305.027e36c0@mail.mindspring.com> <86k7m1w0zv.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20020905233024.GC12787@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ian Zimmerman (itz at speakeasy.org): > By the way: I am trying to help, but as others have already said, the > unwrapped lines are irritating. If Eudora can't do this for you, > how about switching to a mail program that can? Though in my > experience Eudora is among the better PC clients, and should have this > simple feature. There's a solution for almost all common MUAs; you just have to find it. Here's one place that covers almost everything: http://expita.com/nomime.html Although the page concentrates on how to disable HTML and MIME quoted-printable or multipart-alternative message composition, it's a start -- and readers will likely find line-length settings in the places detailed there. -- Cheers, "Send a policeman, and have it arrested." Rick Moen -- Otto von Bismarck, when asked what he rick at linuxmafia.com would do if the British Army landed. From evans at ncseweb.org Fri Sep 6 12:39:18 2002 From: evans at ncseweb.org (Skip Evans) Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:39:18 -0700 Subject: [buug] DAT drive recommendations? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020906123826.01326de0@mail.mindspring.com> Hi All, At last night's boisterous meeting of the Buggers someone recommended a DAT drive for a backup device. Anyone have any brands they'd recommend to use with a BSD box? Skip Evans Network Project Director National Center for Science Education 420 40th St, Suite 2 Oakland, CA 94609 510-601-7203 510-601-7204 (fax) 800-290-6006 evans at ncseweb.org http://www.ncseweb.org NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. To sign up send: subscribe ncse your at email.address to: majordomo at inia.cls.org From evans at ncseweb.org Fri Sep 6 15:09:06 2002 From: evans at ncseweb.org (Skip Evans) Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:09:06 -0700 Subject: [buug] Musical default gateways Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020906144833.02837fa0@mail.mindspring.com> Here's a weird one, Last night at the BUUG meeting I showed a couple of people an odd thing going on on my BSD box. Our network has a Flowpoint 2200 as the first thing coming from Earthlink. That in turn connects to a Linksys router. My BSD box comes off the Flowpoint; it is not connected directly to the Linksys. In the file rc.comf I have a line that reads: defaultrouter="66.47.51.73" As I understand the manual, this value will be used for the gateway at startup. It's been working fine for a few weeks, but yesterday a friend who is doing some work on the box called and said he could no longer access the box. I did a netstat -r and it told me the default gateway was set to 192.168.1.1 ... The IP address of the Linksys. Today I did the following commands to fix it: route delete default route add default 66.47.51.37 When I did a netsat -r it showed be the .37 value as the default gateway. I even rebooted the machine to see what it would come up with, and it came up with the .37 value. Then in the middle of the day today, my friend calls up and says he can't get at the box again and lo and behold, the Linksys IP was again the default gateway. The machine had not been restarted, and, in fact, no one had done anything to it beyond my setting the gateway to the proper value. I've grepped the /etc directory for any reference to the Linksys IP, but it comes up with nothing. Anyone have any idea what is happening here? Thanks! Skip Evans Network Project Director National Center for Science Education 420 40th St, Suite 2 Oakland, CA 94609 510-601-7203 510-601-7204 (fax) 800-290-6006 evans at ncseweb.org http://www.ncseweb.org NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. To sign up send: subscribe ncse your at email.address to: majordomo at inia.cls.org From itz at speakeasy.org Fri Sep 6 21:10:42 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 06 Sep 2002 21:10:42 -0700 Subject: [buug] c++ book recommendation In-Reply-To: <1031259870.6df6e940sobolak@myrealbox.com> References: <1031259870.6df6e940sobolak@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <86fzwmfni5.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> itz> Does anyone know of a book that covers the _entire_ C++ standard itz> library (STL _and_ strings _and_ utils like auto_ptr) in a itz> readable (not necessarily complete) way? As I predicted at the meeting, I found what I was looking for on the Web: ftp://ftp.rug.nl/contrib/frank/documents/cplusplus.annotations though it took me half a day to find the first bug in it. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From bferrell at baywinds.org Sat Sep 7 08:21:28 2002 From: bferrell at baywinds.org (Bruce Ferrell) Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 08:21:28 -0700 Subject: [buug] Musical default gateways References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020906144833.02837fa0@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3D7A1978.8040707@baywinds.org> You didn't mention it, but I'm betting your network config comes from DHCP. If so, when the address lease expires and your box requests a renewal, the linksys answers and reconfigures your network settings... Just a guess Skip Evans wrote: > Here's a weird one, > > Last night at the BUUG meeting I showed a couple of > people an odd thing going on on my BSD box. > > Our network has a Flowpoint 2200 as the first thing coming from Earthlink. > That in turn connects to a Linksys router. My BSD box comes > off the Flowpoint; it is not connected directly to the Linksys. > > In the file rc.comf I have a line that reads: > defaultrouter="66.47.51.73" > > As I understand the manual, this value will be used for the gateway at > startup. > > It's been working fine for a few weeks, but yesterday > a friend who is doing some work on the box called > and said he could no longer access the box. I did > a netstat -r and it told me the default gateway was > set to 192.168.1.1 ... The IP address of the Linksys. > > Today I did the following commands to fix it: > route delete default > route add default 66.47.51.37 > > When I did a netsat -r it showed be the .37 > value as the default gateway. I even rebooted > the machine to see what it would come up with, > and it came up with the .37 value. > > Then in the middle of the day today, my friend calls > up and says he can't get at the box again and lo and > behold, the Linksys IP was again the default gateway. > > The machine had not been restarted, and, in fact, no one > had done anything to it beyond my setting the gateway to > the proper value. > > I've grepped the /etc directory for any reference to the Linksys > IP, but it comes up with nothing. > > Anyone have any idea what is happening here? > > Thanks! > > > > > Skip Evans > Network Project Director > National Center for Science Education > 420 40th St, Suite 2 > Oakland, CA 94609 > 510-601-7203 > 510-601-7204 (fax) > 800-290-6006 > evans at ncseweb.org > http://www.ncseweb.org > > NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. > > To sign up send: > subscribe ncse your at email.address > to: majordomo at inia.cls.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > From bferrell at baywinds.org Sat Sep 7 08:23:48 2002 From: bferrell at baywinds.org (Bruce Ferrell) Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 08:23:48 -0700 Subject: [buug] DAT drive recommendations? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020906123826.01326de0@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3D7A1A04.6010809@baywinds.org> I like HP drives. Depending on how much capacity, you can most likely find what you need on ebay for very little dollars. Oh, and stay away from seagate drives. They look just like HP drives, but inside they're junk. Skip Evans wrote: > Hi All, > > At last night's boisterous meeting of the Buggers someone recommended a DAT drive for a backup device. Anyone have any brands they'd recommend to use with a BSD box? > > > Skip Evans > Network Project Director > National Center for Science Education > 420 40th St, Suite 2 > Oakland, CA 94609 > 510-601-7203 > 510-601-7204 (fax) > 800-290-6006 > evans at ncseweb.org > http://www.ncseweb.org > > NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. > > To sign up send: > subscribe ncse your at email.address > to: majordomo at inia.cls.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > From sobolak at myrealbox.com Sun Sep 8 23:59:08 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 23:59:08 -0700 Subject: [buug] Terminal preferences in MacOSX Message-ID: <892634618.20020908235908@myrealbox.com> hi Anyone know how to change the default term color in the Terminal in OSX? The black and white that ships with it is getting on my nerves. (Hoping it's easy to find and I've just overlooked it) brian -- Got work? http://www.planetshwoop.com/resume/ This is how I think: http://www.planetshwoop.com/blog/ Brian Sobolak sobolak at myrealbox.com From kkeller at speakeasy.net Sun Sep 8 21:53:52 2002 From: kkeller at speakeasy.net (Keith Keller) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 21:53:52 -0700 Subject: [buug] Terminal preferences in MacOSX In-Reply-To: <892634618.20020908235908@myrealbox.com> References: <892634618.20020908235908@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20020909045352.GA32495@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 11:59:08PM -0700, Brian Sobolak wrote: > Anyone know how to change the default term color in the Terminal in > OSX? The black and white that ships with it is getting on my nerves. Terminal->Preferences->Text and Colors > (Hoping it's easy to find and I've just overlooked it) A-yup. :) - -- keith kkeller at speakeasy.net public key: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/kkeller/kkeller.asc alt.os.linux.slackware FAQ: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/perl/fom -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj18KV0ACgkQhVcNCxZ5ID8xnwCfd/2vKAFb4oIcw3JWYhQCZtgl mjUAnR/G4x47LNNXIhITetQnPrPihQdq =dFEg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From john at jjdev.com Sun Sep 8 22:04:41 2002 From: john at jjdev.com (John de la Garza) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 22:04:41 -0700 Subject: [buug] Terminal preferences in MacOSX In-Reply-To: <892634618.20020908235908@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: Try going to the prefs then selecting Window Settings, then change the scrollable thing at the top to go to Color. I've just started using Mac OS X myself... On Sunday, September 8, 2002, at 11:59 PM, Brian Sobolak wrote: > hi > > Anyone know how to change the default term color in the Terminal in > OSX? The black and white that ships with it is getting on my nerves. > > (Hoping it's easy to find and I've just overlooked it) > > brian > > > -- > Got work? http://www.planetshwoop.com/resume/ > This is how I think: http://www.planetshwoop.com/blog/ > Brian Sobolak sobolak at myrealbox.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug From pong at taft.org Mon Sep 9 11:12:41 2002 From: pong at taft.org (Pong-TC) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 11:12:41 -0700 Subject: [buug] ftp in shell script Message-ID: Hello All I am very new with UNIX. I am trying to include ftp commands in my shell script, but it is not successful yet. I want to ftp and grab files from another host, and then run other commands in the script file. I have commands in my script file as follows: Other commands. .... .... ftp hostname loginname password cd regs: get stufile.bcf bye other commands... .... The problem is that it always asks me to put my login and password. It didn't automatically go through as I wish. Can anyone please help? Thank you. Pong From atporter at primate.net Mon Sep 9 11:13:35 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 11:13:35 -0700 Subject: [buug] ftp in shell script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020909181335.GA22104@primate.net> On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 11:12:41AM -0700, Pong-TC wrote: > Hello All > > I am very new with UNIX. I am trying to include ftp commands in my shell > script, but it is not successful yet. I want to ftp and grab files from > another host, and then run other commands in the script file. I have > commands in my script file as follows: > Other commands. > [snip] > The problem is that it always asks me to put my login and password. It > didn't automatically go through as I wish. Can anyone please help? Check out NcFTP. I frequently use ncftpget and ncftpput for doing what you're talking about. Many linux dists come with ncftp by default. From pong at taft.org Mon Sep 9 11:25:47 2002 From: pong at taft.org (Pong-TC) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 11:25:47 -0700 Subject: [buug] ftp in shell script In-Reply-To: <20020909181335.GA22104@primate.net> References: <20020909181335.GA22104@primate.net> Message-ID: Thank you for your help, but I am using FreeBSD. There is no ncftp command in FreeBSD. Pong From atporter at primate.net Mon Sep 9 11:28:25 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 11:28:25 -0700 Subject: [buug] ftp in shell script In-Reply-To: References: <20020909181335.GA22104@primate.net> Message-ID: <20020909182825.GB22104@primate.net> On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 11:25:47AM -0700, Pong-TC wrote: > Thank you for your help, but I am using FreeBSD. There is no ncftp > command in FreeBSD. It's freeware and in ports. Or check http://www.ncftp.com/ncftp/. From jan at caustic.org Mon Sep 9 11:29:08 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 11:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] ftp in shell script In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020909112640.U45362-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Pong-TC wrote: > Thank you for your help, but I am using FreeBSD. There is no ncftp > command in FreeBSD. if you're just grabbing files, freebsd has "fetch(1)", which will happily grab files from various places. it does anonymous only, though. from ports, you can install ncftp, wget, and other similar commands. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From nick at zork.net Mon Sep 9 11:30:04 2002 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 11:30:04 -0700 Subject: [buug] ftp in shell script In-Reply-To: References: <20020909181335.GA22104@primate.net> Message-ID: <20020909183004.GA12573@zork.net> begin Pong-TC quotation: > Thank you for your help, but I am using FreeBSD. There is no ncftp > command in FreeBSD. Look in the ports. -- Jack Valenti is to the American film viewer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone. -- http://cryptome.org/hrcw-hear.htm (search for "Boston") From itz at speakeasy.org Mon Sep 9 12:10:02 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 09 Sep 2002 12:10:02 -0700 Subject: [buug] announce: xcolorsel-gtk Message-ID: <86admrt1x1.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> As my first gtk program, I wrote a replacement for xcolorsel, which I maintain for Debian. I didn't really like the original program and wanted to get rid of it, but I could find nothing that provided equivalent functionality. Now that xcolorsel-gtk exists, the original xcolorsel can be retired, I hope. I fill file a formal ITO soon. There are still a few rough edges in the GUI, as can be expected from a novice. Gtk experts in the audience are invited to suggest improvements. One thing I know about: the text entry control should get input focus at entry do dialogs. How? The path of the rgb.txt file should probably be selectable at runtime, rather than compiled in. Also, a manpage needs to be written, but that will be quite simple for this kind of program. It can be found here: http://www.speakeasy.net/~itz/hacks/xcolorsel-gtk-0.9.0.tar.gz -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From itz at speakeasy.org Mon Sep 9 12:21:59 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 09 Sep 2002 12:21:59 -0700 Subject: [buug] ftp in shell script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8665xft1d4.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Pong-TC> Hello All I am very new with UNIX. I am trying to include Pong-TC> ftp commands in my shell script, but it is not successful Pong-TC> yet. I want to ftp and grab files from another host, and Pong-TC> then run other commands in the script file. Pong-TC> The problem is that it always asks me to put my login and Pong-TC> password. It didn't automatically go through as I wish. Can Pong-TC> anyone please help? There are many answers to this. One is a more featureful ftp client, as others have suggested. But even the stock ftp client (at least the one that has been in every Linux distribution for a decade :) can use a .netrc file in your home directory to look up the password. "man ftp" should explain the format. A more general solution is to write an Expect script. In fact the Expect distribution comes with many example scripts, some of which do exactly this, and much more. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Mon Sep 9 12:40:02 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:40:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [buug] Printing mailing labels and forms? Message-ID: Two (possibly related) questions: I need to be able to print (1) mailing labels and (2) directly onto a preprinted form. I've searched through both _Unix Power Tools_, Freshmeat, and Google but haven't been able to find anything suitable (part of the problem with point 2 is that I'm not sure exactly what I'm searching for). As to mailing labels, I did find a Perl module (PostScript::MailLabels) that seems fairly nice, but there's no documentation and I'm not grokking the source. I'm thinking that I can probably hack something together using PSUtils but I'm also thinking that something else has already got to be out there. (I should also note that the labels that I'll be printing on already have a logo and address printed on them, so whatever solution I use will need to be flexible enough to permit some customization. I mention this because I did find one Gnome-based product which assumes blank labels.) Second issue: I've got some blank forms that I need to print directly onto. I've never read anything about this, but I know that people do it all the time. Could someone point me towards some links or provide some search terms? I'm not even sure what I should be searching Google for. Thanks, Claude From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Mon Sep 9 12:50:24 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [buug] ftp in shell script In-Reply-To: <8665xft1d4.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: > Pong-TC> The problem is that it always asks me to put my login and > Pong-TC> password. It didn't automatically go through as I wish. Can > Pong-TC> anyone please help? If you have an account on the remote machine, one option would be use ssh/scp with public key authentication. Basically, you scp your public key over to the remote machine and place it in .ssh/authorized_keys. Assuming that public key authentication is permitted on the remote server, you'll then be able to ssh/scp without entering your password. see the ssh man page for details. Claude From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Mon Sep 9 15:08:53 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Printing mailing labels and forms? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020909220853.53577.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> Hey Claude, Could "Star Office" or some other microsoft word knock-off for linux be able to print mailing labels (though the last time I used star office was 2 years ago so I can't say for sure...a quick visit to the sun site shows that star office isn't even free anymore) I was bored, so I did some searches like "linux mailing labels", etc, etc on yahoo and redhat.com: I found an awk solution that you might not have found: http://www.linuxselfhelp.com/gnu/gawk/html_chapter/gawk_15.html#SEC203 And then I found the stuff you already found: http://oplnk.net/~ajackson/software/maillabels/ http://snaught.com/glabels/ Also, if you like to program, your printer is an HP, and the "lp" command works, you could embed "PCL" commands in the text, either inline with sed and some pipes, or directly into a file, using vi/emacs. Sounds crufty, I know, but actually if you wrote a program to do this, the program would be very clean (you can stuff the wacky PCL strings into vars like "$LINEFEED"), and debugging is a snap (you are sending bytes directly to the printer, so you can debug any problem by "dividing and conquering"). Maybe there's a PCL perl module or C-library or something out there already... Here's the hp PCL homepage, have at it if you dare: http://www.hp.com/cposupport/printers/support_doc/bpl02705.html --- Claude Rubinson wrote: > Two (possibly related) questions: > > I need to be able to print (1) mailing labels and > (2) directly onto a > preprinted form. I've searched through both _Unix > Power Tools_, > Freshmeat, and Google but haven't been able to find > anything suitable > (part of the problem with point 2 is that I'm not > sure exactly what I'm > searching for). > > As to mailing labels, I did find a Perl module > (PostScript::MailLabels) > that seems fairly nice, but there's no documentation > and I'm not grokking > the source. I'm thinking that I can probably hack > something together > using PSUtils but I'm also thinking that something > else has already got to > be out there. (I should also note that the labels > that I'll be printing > on already have a logo and address printed on them, > so whatever solution I > use will need to be flexible enough to permit some > customization. I > mention this because I did find one Gnome-based > product which assumes > blank labels.) > > Second issue: I've got some blank forms that I need > to print directly > onto. I've never read anything about this, but I > know that people do it > all the time. Could someone point me towards some > links or provide some > search terms? I'm not even sure what I should be > searching Google for. > > Thanks, > > Claude > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From nick at zork.net Mon Sep 9 15:45:23 2002 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:45:23 -0700 Subject: [buug] ftp in shell script In-Reply-To: References: <8665xft1d4.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20020909224523.GL12573@zork.net> begin Claude Rubinson quotation: > > Pong-TC> The problem is that it always asks me to put my login and > > Pong-TC> password. It didn't automatically go through as I wish. Can > > Pong-TC> anyone please help? > > If you have an account on the remote machine, one option would be > use ssh/scp with public key authentication. Basically, you scp your > public key over to the remote machine and place it in > .ssh/authorized_keys. Assuming that public key authentication is > permitted on the remote server, you'll then be able to ssh/scp > without entering your password. see the ssh man page for details. Here's an old explanation of how to do it with rsync (which is superior in every concievable way to scp): http://zork.net/pipermail/crackmonkey/2001q1/016273.html The nearly two-year-old offer at the end is extended further to this list. -- Jack Valenti is to the American film viewer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone. -- http://cryptome.org/hrcw-hear.htm (search for "Boston") From sobolak at myrealbox.com Mon Sep 9 16:21:15 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 18:21:15 -0500 Subject: [buug] DNS help: tricking my network Message-ID: <1031613675.c39fcec0sobolak@myrealbox.com> Hi I've got the DSL working with a static IP. This IP is assigned to my Netgear firewall router, with ports punched open for HTTP, SSH, and DNS. The ports are all forwarded to my FreeBSD box. The problem is that when I try to access URLs that contain the domain I host I get an error. The DNS server answers with the IP address from the public internet. When the browser (for example) then tries to access this IP, the firewall answers. Since the firewall is smart (sort of), it never routes the traffic to the public interface, and it never actually goes to the webserver. I just get an error. This usually isn't a problem - I just use the hostname or the private IP. But some new software I installed uses fully qualified domains (e.g. www.planetshwoop.com/cgi-bin/foo.cgi instead of just /cgi-bing/foo.cgi) and it's causing a lot of frustration. Can I set up the DNS server on my BSD box so that if it receives requests for domains that it hosts from the internal network it will give a different answer than requests from outside the private network? brian -- Brian Sobolak http://www.planetshwoop.com/ sobolak at myrealbox.com From itz at speakeasy.org Mon Sep 9 16:27:46 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 09 Sep 2002 16:27:46 -0700 Subject: [buug] Printing mailing labels and forms? In-Reply-To: <20020909220853.53577.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020909220853.53577.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <86k7luspzh.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Bob> Also, if you like to program, your printer is an HP, and the "lp" Bob> command works, you could embed "PCL" commands in the text, either Bob> inline with sed and some pipes, or directly into a file, using Bob> vi/emacs. Hmmmph, if dropping to this level is really necessary, I'd prefer PostScript + ghostscript. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From itz at speakeasy.org Mon Sep 9 16:36:03 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 09 Sep 2002 16:36:03 -0700 Subject: [buug] DNS help: tricking my network In-Reply-To: <1031613675.c39fcec0sobolak@myrealbox.com> References: <1031613675.c39fcec0sobolak@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <86fzwisplo.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Brian> Can I set up the DNS server on my BSD box so that if it Brian> receives requests for domains that it hosts from the internal Brian> network it will give a different answer than requests from Brian> outside the private network? Not that I know, with BIND 8. You could run a second nameserver only for internal use. Or maybe just add the relevant domainnames to your /etc/hosts, and configure nsswitch to consult /etc/hosts before DNS. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From jan at caustic.org Mon Sep 9 16:41:58 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 16:41:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] DNS help: tricking my network In-Reply-To: <86fzwisplo.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20020909163946.Y45362-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On 9 Sep 2002, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > Not that I know, with BIND 8. you can't, in bind 8. not without specifying it a little different. > You could run a second nameserver only for internal use. > Or maybe just add the relevant domainnames to your /etc/hosts, and > configure nsswitch to consult /etc/hosts before DNS. nsswitch is a linux/solarisism. in freebsd, you've got /etc/host.conf. in NetBSD/OpenBSD you have a lookup field in /etc/resolv.conf. lookup file bind for example. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From jan at caustic.org Mon Sep 9 16:47:52 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 16:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] DNS help: tricking my network In-Reply-To: <20020909163946.Y45362-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20020909164252.M45362-100000@pogo.caustic.org> it's bad form to respond to yourself.. but.. On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, f.johan.beisser wrote: > you can't, in bind 8. not without specifying it a little different. i should be more clear. you can specify "internal" names. for example: foo.example.com has an internal name of foo.int.example.com when you look up foo.example.com, it resolves to 12.34.56.78. when you look up foo.int.example.com, it resolves to 10.0.0.78. in bind9, you have the option of "views" which can limit what external and internal machines can see through the DNS. so, foo.example.com from my side is 12.34.56.78, but to you it's 10.0.0.78. i don't know much more about this though. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From jammer at weak.org Mon Sep 9 17:09:45 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:09:45 -0700 Subject: [buug] DNS help: tricking my network In-Reply-To: <86fzwisplo.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> References: <1031613675.c39fcec0sobolak@myrealbox.com> <86fzwisplo.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20020910000945.GQ1640@weak.org> On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 04:36:03PM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > You could run a second nameserver only for internal use. This is what I do. Boy was it a pain to setup in Debian, though. Especially with DHCP-DNS. -Jon From atporter at primate.net Mon Sep 9 17:20:35 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:20:35 -0700 Subject: [buug] DNS help: tricking my network In-Reply-To: <1031613675.c39fcec0sobolak@myrealbox.com> References: <1031613675.c39fcec0sobolak@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20020910002035.GF22104@primate.net> On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 06:21:15PM -0500, Brian Sobolak wrote: > I've got the DSL working with a static IP. This IP is > assigned to my Netgear firewall router, with ports > punched open for HTTP, SSH, and DNS. The ports are > all forwarded to my FreeBSD box. Ok, ObDisclaimer: I have not tried this. What happens if you add an additional interface on your FreeBSD box with the public/static ip and then add a route on your client(s) or perhaps your dhcp config pointing the public ip at the FreeBSD box? From itz at speakeasy.org Mon Sep 9 20:57:28 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 09 Sep 2002 20:57:28 -0700 Subject: [buug] wrestling Message-ID: <86hegywl7b.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Prompted by a topic discussed in the last meeting and general life's setbacks, I did a Google search on myself. It made my day :) http://www.kutztown.edu/activities/athletics/stats/9899/wrestle.html -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From jammer at weak.org Mon Sep 9 21:03:43 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:03:43 -0700 Subject: [buug] wrestling In-Reply-To: <86hegywl7b.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> References: <86hegywl7b.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20020910040343.GA13791@weak.org> On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 08:57:28PM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > Prompted by a topic discussed in the last meeting and general life's > setbacks, I did a Google search on myself. It made my day :) > > http://www.kutztown.edu/activities/athletics/stats/9899/wrestle.html Not quite as bad as http://www.jonmcclintock.com/ but still humorous... -Jon From kkeller at speakeasy.net Mon Sep 9 21:13:32 2002 From: kkeller at speakeasy.net (Keith Keller) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:13:32 -0700 Subject: [buug] DNS help: tricking my network In-Reply-To: <1031613675.c39fcec0sobolak@myrealbox.com> References: <1031613675.c39fcec0sobolak@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20020910041332.GA7209@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 06:21:15PM -0500, Brian Sobolak wrote: > Can I set up the DNS server on my BSD box so that if > it receives requests for domains that it hosts from > the internal network it will give a different answer > than requests from outside the private network? Yes--it's easy with BIND 9, more difficult (though possible) with BIND 8. Here's part of my named.conf file: acl "inside" { 192.168.1/24; }; view "inside" { match-clients { "inside"; }; recursion yes; zone "wombat.san-francisco.ca.us" IN { type master; file "wombat.san-francisco.ca.us-inside"; allow-update { none; }; }; }; view "outside" { match-clients { any; }; recursion no; zone "wombat.san-francisco.ca.us" IN { type master; file "wombat.san-francisco.ca.us"; allow-update { none; }; }; }; The first matching view is applied to a query, so the inside view is applied to your home network, and the outside view to everyone else. The -inside zone file should use your internal addresses instead of your official internet IPs. - -- keith kkeller at speakeasy.net public key: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/kkeller/kkeller.asc alt.os.linux.slackware FAQ: http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/perl/fom -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj19cWsACgkQhVcNCxZ5ID+7iwCfaShdTTYgMTT+8oPGYciH8YEI w2AAn34QJUa+jpDY5MNBQNv0pf4aU33X =0sNb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From atporter at primate.net Tue Sep 10 00:47:00 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 00:47:00 -0700 Subject: [buug] wrestling In-Reply-To: <86hegywl7b.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> References: <86hegywl7b.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20020910074700.GI22104@primate.net> On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 08:57:28PM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > Prompted by a topic discussed in the last meeting and general life's > setbacks, I did a Google search on myself. It made my day :) For those who missed us in MeatSpace the discussion was on Google and the possibility of {current,prospective,past} employers checking the "public record" on you. From john at jjdev.com Tue Sep 10 01:15:23 2002 From: john at jjdev.com (John de la Garza) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:15:23 -0700 Subject: [buug] OS X terminal In-Reply-To: <20020910040343.GA13791@weak.org> Message-ID: <74566C36-C495-11D6-82A5-000393C0EF50@jjdev.com> This is for the guy who was asking about the terminal settings in OS X. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lunixmacosx/chapter/ch04.html also take a look at http://macdevcenter.com/ From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Tue Sep 10 00:48:07 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 03:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [buug] Printing mailing labels and forms? In-Reply-To: <20020909220853.53577.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Bob Read wrote: > Hey Claude, > Could "Star Office" or some other microsoft word > knock-off for linux be able to print mailing labels > (though the last time I used star office was 2 years > ago so I can't say for sure...a quick visit to the sun > site shows that star office isn't even free anymore) I've got OpenOffice (which is what StarOffice is now based off of), but it's like pulling teeth to get OO to do the simplest things so I didn't even try it. Brian suggested looking into KOffice or AbiWord, so I might do that. As it turns out, having a label with a pre-printed logo is decidedly non-standard. The standard "Avery" program (they're the guys who make all the address labels) assumes a blank label. After call a few different copy shops, the best that they could come up with was a complicated 'scan-mask-print' process. Time consuming and expensive. Fortunately, my girlfriend saved the day and brought home an antique device which she called a "typewriter." It's kind of bizarre -- you don't actually print anything. When you type on the keys, a little hammer strikes the paper directly. The cool thing is, you can precisely position where you're going to "print." Worked perfectly. I can't believe that these things haven't caught on. > I found an awk solution that you might not have found: > http://www.linuxselfhelp.com/gnu/gawk/html_chapter/gawk_15.html#SEC203 D'oh! I've been reading that book (I love awk) -- just hadn't gotten to that part yet. I'll look into it, it may be a good solution. (Also, now that I've got the immediate issue resolved, I can spend more time trying to understand the Perl module; it seems pretty powerful). > Also, if you like to program, your printer is an > HP, and the "lp" command works, you could embed "PCL" > commands in the text, either inline with sed and some > pipes, or directly into a file, using vi/emacs. > Sounds crufty, I know, but actually if you wrote a > program to do this, the program would be very clean > (you can stuff the wacky PCL strings into vars like > "$LINEFEED"), and debugging is a snap (you are sending > bytes directly to the printer, so you can debug any > problem by "dividing and conquering"). I actually have a a Lexmark that speaks PostScript natively, so I've been considering diving into PostScript to attack this issue. (More out of curiosity than necessity, now that I've discovered the typewriter.) Basically, what I'm looking for is arbitary, precise positioning of print. Assuming that one's printer is correctly calibrated, I wouldn't think that this would be difficult. As an aside, can anyone recommend a text on learning PostScript? Browsing through Amazon.com, there appear to be a ton. Claude From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Tue Sep 10 10:33:02 2002 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] wrestling In-Reply-To: <20020910040343.GA13791@weak.org> Message-ID: <20020910173302.41104.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> Ian, You might be proud of your 3-11 record, but frankly, I'm ashamed. Why don't you at least TRY to get to .500? Or at least starve yourself down to the next weight class? Show some initiative! If you don't commit yourself, you're going to eat shit. Jon, Your sad devotion to that ancient religion hasn't allowed you to conjure up those stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to discover the princess' whereabouts..AAACCK! Enough! This bickering is pointless! Vader--release him! As you wish. Bob --- Jon McClintock wrote: > On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 08:57:28PM -0700, Ian > Zimmerman wrote: > > > > Prompted by a topic discussed in the last meeting > and general life's > > setbacks, I did a Google search on myself. It > made my day :) > > > > > http://www.kutztown.edu/activities/athletics/stats/9899/wrestle.html > > Not quite as bad as http://www.jonmcclintock.com/ > but still humorous... > > -Jon > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Senior Unix Administrator/DBA/Programmer cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute From itz at speakeasy.org Tue Sep 10 11:22:53 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 10 Sep 2002 11:22:53 -0700 Subject: [buug] DNS help: tricking my network In-Reply-To: <20020909163946.Y45362-100000@pogo.caustic.org> References: <20020909163946.Y45362-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <86elc1aema.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> jan> nsswitch is a linux/solarisism. Acutally linux has both nsswitch.conf and host.conf. The first is used by the wrapper routines in libc (gethostbyname etc.), the second by the lower-level resolver library (res_*). Apparently this means that with the most common configuration /etc/hosts is searched twice, once by each level. Bizarre? Yes. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From billoomal at yahoo.com Tue Sep 10 23:07:54 2002 From: billoomal at yahoo.com (HD) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Refresh rates and LT win(not)modems Message-ID: <20020911060754.62861.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com> So two things. First I am ecstatic, that I finally got the LT winmodem on my box to prove useful, and managed to compile the driver, and dial up, etc. It actually works. Just wanted to share that with someone :) The second one is a question regarding my monitor settings. I am running RH 7.0 with 2.2.16, and I noticed today that there is a horizontal line continually moving upwards on my monitor. I am guessing it has something to do with my refresh rate settings. How do I check what this is set at, and how do I alter it? Or is this due to something else? Cheers! HD __________________________________________________ Yahoo! - We Remember 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Sep 11 00:52:18 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 00:52:18 -0700 Subject: [buug] Refresh rates and LT win(not)modems In-Reply-To: <20020911060754.62861.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020911060754.62861.qmail@web13008.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020911075218.GA12787@linuxmafia.com> Quoting HD (billoomal at yahoo.com): > I am running RH 7.0 with 2.2.16, and I noticed today that there is a > horizontal line continually moving upwards on my monitor. I am > guessing it has something to do with my refresh rate settings. How do > I check what this is set at, and how do I alter it? Or is this due to > something else? It's entirely possible that changing your refresh rate might get rid of that line. One way to check on your X Window Systems settings in Red Hat 7.0, and optionally fiddle with them, is using Xconfigurator. Xconfigurator is a graphical[1] utility written by Red Hat Software, and will let you check, among other things, the "Horizontal Sync" and "Vertical Sync" limits you've specified as allegedly the outside limits of what your monitor will do. This is on the "Monitor Configuration" screen. The next screen is "X Configuration". To more finely adjust X setup, select the "Customize X Configuration" button, which takes you to the "Customize X Configuration" screen, where you can pick when colour depths and resolutions the X server will try. There's a "Test the configuration" button, which may be useful. Any changes at the end get written to the /etc/X11/XF86Config file, which you may wish to study, although it's verbose and a bit of a mess. Clue: The bottom-most section is the one that pulls everything together. Items mentioned in it get defined in preceding sections. RH 7.0 was rather early in the awkward transition from XFree86 3.3.x to 4.x. Accordingly, one problem I'm having giving you advice I'm sure you can use is that I have no way of knowing which series of X11 servers and associated software you're using. One way you can get useful debugging information is to (1) kill X11 completely. If you're having difficulty doing this any other way, try "telinit 3" as the root user. (2) Do "X > xerrors 2>&1", which will start up a "bare" X11 server, with no window manager. (You'll see just a mottled screen with a mouse pointer.) Kill the X server, by pressing Ctrl-Alt-Bkspc. Now, you have the full set of X-server error messages and other output captured to file "xerrors", for your study. Read it, to see how the X server decides what video settings to use, and compare it against the contents of /etc/X11/XF86Config . [1] Actually, it also runs in console mode. The screens are slightly different from those I've described, but not much. -- Cheers, "This is mad, egotistical, sick, twisted, and stretches the bounds of Rick Moen good taste right off the tongue, past the uvula, and down around rick at linuxmafia.com the duodenum. It has other merits, but that should indicate positive interest." -- The Cube, http://www.forum3000.org/ From evans at ncseweb.org Tue Sep 17 16:41:21 2002 From: evans at ncseweb.org (Skip Evans) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:41:21 -0700 Subject: [buug] dhclient.conf file? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020917163849.02945bd0@mail.mindspring.com> I have a BSD box connect to a small network of XP machines that uses a Linksys router as a switch. The BSD box has a static IP address and domain name, hence, a static gateway outside our network. What is happening is the BSD box keeps accepting the Linksys IP address and replacing the gateway. I found the file dhclient.conf and it has a command called 'reject ' that I understood to mean that the BSD box would ignore anything sent from the Linksys, but it doesn't seem to work. Anyone have any ideas? Skip Evans Network Project Director National Center for Science Education 420 40th St, Suite 2 Oakland, CA 94609 510-601-7203 Ext. 308 510-601-7204 (fax) 800-290-6006 evans at ncseweb.org http://www.ncseweb.org NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list. Please note that this is NOT a discussion list. You cannot post messages for members to receive. We use this list to broadcast news about the creationism/evolution issue to interested parties. To sign up send: subscribe ncse your at email.address to: majordomo at inia.cls.org From jammer at weak.org Tue Sep 17 17:55:05 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:55:05 -0700 Subject: [buug] dhclient.conf file? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020917163849.02945bd0@mail.mindspring.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020917163849.02945bd0@mail.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <20020918005504.GD3849@weak.org> On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 04:41:21PM -0700, Skip Evans wrote: > I have a BSD box connect to a small network of XP machines > that uses a Linksys router as a switch. The BSD box has a static > IP address and domain name, hence, a static gateway outside > our network. > > What is happening is the BSD box keeps accepting the Linksys > IP address and replacing the gateway. > > I found the file dhclient.conf and it has a command called > 'reject ' that I understood to mean that the BSD > box would ignore anything sent from the Linksys, but it > doesn't seem to work. > > Anyone have any ideas? If the BSD system has a static IP address, then why is it running dhclient in the first place? Why not just remove dhclient altogether? -Jon From sobolak at myrealbox.com Wed Sep 18 15:46:18 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 17:46:18 -0500 Subject: [buug] chat: Sun to sell linux desktops? Message-ID: <1032389178.5741f2a0sobolak@myrealbox.com> I think it's odd that Sun frequently defines itself as being "not Microsoft" instead of trying to say "We are..." However, if their plan succeeds to sell Linux desktops, then we'll actually see working Unix desktops after 30+ years of development. First Apple, then Sun... I'm interested to see how this one pans out. Frankly, I'd buy a Linux box from Sun if the price isn't through the roof. link: What hath Linux wrought? brian -- Brian Sobolak http://www.planetshwoop.com/ sobolak at myrealbox.com From itz at speakeasy.org Wed Sep 18 16:06:14 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 18 Sep 2002 16:06:14 -0700 Subject: [buug] chat: Sun to sell linux desktops? In-Reply-To: <1032389178.5741f2a0sobolak@myrealbox.com> References: <1032389178.5741f2a0sobolak@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <86vg52j3tl.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Brian> However, if their plan succeeds to sell Linux desktops, then Brian> we'll actually see working Unix desktops after 30+ years of Brian> development. First Apple, then Sun... There was the AT&T "Unix PC", based on their own 3b2 chip IIRC. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From wfhoney at pacbell.net Wed Sep 18 16:08:25 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:08:25 -0700 Subject: [buug] Blocking sendmail Message-ID: <3D890769.FA29AACB@pacbell.net> Before the catcalls start, let me say that I know that I shouldn't have sendmail running when I should be using one of the many perfectly good substitutes. But I have is running on one machine. I filter packets such that only localhost can connect, all others packets are rejected. So imagine my surprise to see the following in my process status output: > ps ax > >... stuff deleted... > > 2896 ? S 0:00 sendmain: ./g8G7DAJ26233 gateway4.worldnet.att.net: > Yikes!! All packets from both the localnet and DMZ are disallowed, so the question becomes, "has someone found an innovative way to use my sendmail daemon?" Thanks in advance! Bill From wfhoney at pacbell.net Wed Sep 18 16:14:33 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:14:33 -0700 Subject: [buug] Learning to cut and paste Message-ID: <3D8908D9.A896AC5D@pacbell.net> NOTE: Sorry, I should have proof read this before sending. What I meant to say was: Before the catcalls start, let me say that I know that I shouldn't have sendmail running...that I should be using one of the many perfectly good substitutes. But in truth, I have it running on one machine. I filter packets so that only localhost can connect, all others packets are rejected. Imagine my surprise to see the following in my process status output: ps ax ... stuff deleted... 2896 ? S 0:00 sendmain: ./g8G7DAJ26233 gateway4.worldnet.att.net: Yikes!! All packets from both the localnet and DMZ are disallowed, so the question becomes, "has someone found an innovative way to use my sendmail daemon?" Thanks in advance! Bill From alex at myzona.net Wed Sep 18 16:21:46 2002 From: alex at myzona.net (Alex M) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:21:46 -0700 Subject: [buug] Learning to cut and paste References: <3D8908D9.A896AC5D@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <000801c25f6a$29999ba0$83a7fea9@kronos> Is it a typo there? sendmain? What packet filtering software are you using? Perhaps the rule is incorrectly set up. Another reason for such behavior might be that it is one of the users on the local machine trying to send mail outside. Regards, Alex M. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Honeycutt" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 4:14 PM Subject: [buug] Learning to cut and paste > NOTE: Sorry, I should have proof read this before sending. What I meant > to say was: > > > Before the catcalls start, let me say that I know that I shouldn't have > sendmail running...that I should be using one of the many perfectly good > substitutes. > > But in truth, I have it running on one machine. I filter packets so > that only > localhost can connect, all others packets are rejected. Imagine my > surprise to see the following in my process status output: > > ps ax > > ... stuff deleted... > > 2896 ? S 0:00 sendmain: ./g8G7DAJ26233 gateway4.worldnet.att.net: > > > Yikes!! All packets from both the localnet and DMZ are disallowed, so > the question becomes, "has someone found an innovative way to use my > sendmail daemon?" > > Thanks in advance! > > Bill > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From jan at caustic.org Wed Sep 18 16:24:54 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Blocking sendmail In-Reply-To: <3D890769.FA29AACB@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20020918161156.L67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Bill Honeycutt wrote: > Before the catcalls start, let me say that I know that I shouldn't have > sendmail running when I should be using one of the many perfectly good > substitutes. why substitute? i run sendmail, have for the last few years. i've found it to be very very good. > But I have is running on one machine. I filter packets such that only > localhost can connect, all others packets are rejected. So imagine my > surprise to see the following in my process status output: > > > ps ax > > > >... stuff deleted... > > > > 2896 ? S 0:00 sendmain: ./g8G7DAJ26233 gateway4.worldnet.att.net: > > odd. what do your firewall rules say? blaming sendmail for something like this is kind of foolish, it might be a bad configuration after all. > Yikes!! All packets from both the localnet and DMZ are disallowed, so > the question becomes, "has someone found an innovative way to use my > sendmail daemon?" probably not. you'd need to check the sendmail config file, and go through /var/spool/mqueue. take a look at the mail headers and body. > Thanks in advance! change your cf file to only handle local mail. take a look at the (now standard) localhost.cf file in a few different BSD distributions. http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/src/gnu/usr.sbin/sendmail/cf/cf/openbsd-localhost.mc?rev=1.4&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup so, generate the localhost.cf file from the mc with m4, and away you go. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Sep 18 16:27:11 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:27:11 -0700 Subject: [buug] chat: Sun to sell linux desktops? In-Reply-To: <86vg52j3tl.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> References: <1032389178.5741f2a0sobolak@myrealbox.com> <86vg52j3tl.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20020918232711.GS15786@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ian Zimmerman (itz at speakeasy.org): > There was the AT&T "Unix PC", based on their own 3b2 chip IIRC. 'Long as we're delving into Unix history, I vaguely recall that the AT&T / Olivetti Unix PC was scooped by an x86 PC hardware company in the UK. Name started with "E". It didn't last long, and they tried hard to conceal the Unix underpinnings, for marketing reasons. -- Cheers, Live Faust, die Jung. Rick Moen rick at linuxmafia.com From wfhoney at pacbell.net Wed Sep 18 16:32:24 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:32:24 -0700 Subject: [buug] Learning to cut and paste References: <3D8908D9.A896AC5D@pacbell.net> <000801c25f6a$29999ba0$83a7fea9@kronos> Message-ID: <3D890D08.40409B95@pacbell.net> I believe packet filtering is working as it should. Lots of packets are filtered out as they try to reach port 25 from the outside world. Alex M wrote: > > Is it a typo there? sendmain? > What packet filtering software are you using? Perhaps the rule is > incorrectly set up. > > Another reason for such behavior might be that it is one of the users on the > local machine trying to send mail outside. > > Regards, > Alex M. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Honeycutt" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 4:14 PM > Subject: [buug] Learning to cut and paste > > > NOTE: Sorry, I should have proof read this before sending. What I meant > > to say was: > > > > > > Before the catcalls start, let me say that I know that I shouldn't have > > sendmail running...that I should be using one of the many perfectly good > > substitutes. > > > > But in truth, I have it running on one machine. I filter packets so > > that only > > localhost can connect, all others packets are rejected. Imagine my > > surprise to see the following in my process status output: > > > > ps ax > > > > ... stuff deleted... > > > > 2896 ? S 0:00 sendmain: ./g8G7DAJ26233 gateway4.worldnet.att.net: > > > > > > Yikes!! All packets from both the localnet and DMZ are disallowed, so > > the question becomes, "has someone found an innovative way to use my > > sendmail daemon?" > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > > Buug mailing list > > Buug at weak.org > > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > From atporter at primate.net Wed Sep 18 16:38:00 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:38:00 -0700 Subject: [buug] chat: Sun to sell linux desktops? In-Reply-To: <86vg52j3tl.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> References: <1032389178.5741f2a0sobolak@myrealbox.com> <86vg52j3tl.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20020918233800.GC12765@primate.net> On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 04:06:14PM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > Brian> However, if their plan succeeds to sell Linux desktops, then > Brian> we'll actually see working Unix desktops after 30+ years of > Brian> development. First Apple, then Sun... > > There was the AT&T "Unix PC", based on their own 3b2 chip IIRC. The AT&T PWS (personal workstation). Actually had one for a while, ahh the memories :). AT&T also sold a 386 unix box the 6300PWS if I'm remembering right. From wfhoney at pacbell.net Wed Sep 18 16:38:44 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:38:44 -0700 Subject: [buug] Learning to cut and paste References: <3D8908D9.A896AC5D@pacbell.net> <000801c25f6a$29999ba0$83a7fea9@kronos> Message-ID: <3D890E84.85EABB32@pacbell.net> Alex M wrote: > > Is it a typo there? sendmain? > > > ps ax > > > > ... stuff deleted... > > > > 2896 ? S 0:00 sendmain: ./g8G7DAJ26233 gateway4.worldnet.att.net: Yes, Alex, I was typing the line from ps...which brings up a second question: My gpm seems to not be cutting and pasting :-< I think that during installation I picked "3 button mouse" when in reality I should have selected "two button with 3 button emulation". I can highlight text, but it doesn't reach the buffer when I click two buttons simultaneously. Any suggestions would be appreciated. From itz at speakeasy.org Wed Sep 18 16:51:05 2002 From: itz at speakeasy.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 18 Sep 2002 16:51:05 -0700 Subject: [buug] Learning to cut and paste In-Reply-To: <3D890E84.85EABB32@pacbell.net> References: <3D8908D9.A896AC5D@pacbell.net> <000801c25f6a$29999ba0$83a7fea9@kronos> <3D890E84.85EABB32@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <86fzw67t7a.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Bill> My gpm seems to not be cutting and pasting :-< I think that Bill> during installation I picked "3 button mouse" when in reality I Bill> should have selected "two button with 3 button emulation". Bill> I can highlight text, but it doesn't reach the buffer when I Bill> click two buttons simultaneously. Any reason not to actually get a 3-button mouse? The emulation really stinks, you'll give yourself a carpal syndrome quite fast. And a lot of programs use 3 buttons in an essential way under X. I don't know if that matters to you, of course. -- Ian Zimmerman, Oakland, California, U.S.A. GPG: 433BA087 9C0F 194F 203A 63F7 B1B8 6E5A 8CA3 27DB 433B A087 EngSoc adopts market economy: cheap is wasteful, efficient is expensive. From wfhoney at pacbell.net Wed Sep 18 17:08:43 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 17:08:43 -0700 Subject: [buug] Learning to cut and paste References: <3D8908D9.A896AC5D@pacbell.net> <000801c25f6a$29999ba0$83a7fea9@kronos> <3D890E84.85EABB32@pacbell.net> <86fzw67t7a.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <3D89158B.C990B80D@pacbell.net> Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > Bill> I can highlight text, but it doesn't reach the buffer when I > Bill> click two buttons simultaneously. > > Any reason not to actually get a 3-button mouse? The emulation really > stinks, you'll give yourself a carpal syndrome quite fast. > > And a lot of programs use 3 buttons in an essential way under X. I > don't know if that matters to you, of course. Perhaps you're right...I usually capture my mice in the wild, but a tame 3-button mouse might be the answer!!! From wfhoney at pacbell.net Wed Sep 18 17:10:29 2002 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 17:10:29 -0700 Subject: [buug] Blocking sendmail References: <20020918161156.L67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <3D8915F5.CDD61536@pacbell.net> "f.johan.beisser" wrote: > > change your cf file to only handle local mail. take a look at the (now > standard) localhost.cf file in a few different BSD distributions. > > http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/src/gnu/usr.sbin/sendmail/cf/cf/openbsd-localhost.mc?rev=1.4&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup > > so, generate the localhost.cf file from the mc with m4, and away you go. I'll check this out, Johan. Thanks! From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Sep 18 18:56:54 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:56:54 -0700 Subject: [buug] Learning to cut and paste In-Reply-To: <86fzw67t7a.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> References: <3D8908D9.A896AC5D@pacbell.net> <000801c25f6a$29999ba0$83a7fea9@kronos> <3D890E84.85EABB32@pacbell.net> <86fzw67t7a.fsf@kronstadt.homeunix.net> Message-ID: <20020919015654.GY15786@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ian Zimmerman (itz at speakeasy.org): > Any reason not to actually get a 3-button mouse? Epoxying on that third button really sucks. From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Sep 18 19:05:02 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:05:02 -0700 Subject: [buug] Blocking sendmail In-Reply-To: <20020918161156.L67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> References: <3D890769.FA29AACB@pacbell.net> <20020918161156.L67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20020919020502.GZ15786@linuxmafia.com> Quoting f.johan.beisser (jan at caustic.org): > why substitute? > > i run sendmail, have for the last few years. i've found it to be very very > good. It's pretty good, indeed -- and one can make an excellent argument for sticking with what works, and what you know. See also: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/muas -- Cheers, "I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate Rick Moen those who do. And, for the people who like country music, rick at linuxmafia.com denigrate means 'put down'." -- Bob Newhart From jan at caustic.org Wed Sep 18 19:25:28 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] Blocking sendmail In-Reply-To: <20020919020502.GZ15786@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020918192156.O67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Rick Moen wrote: > It's pretty good, indeed -- and one can make an excellent argument for > sticking with what works, and what you know. true, and agreed. since i happen (heh) to know a few of the sendmail developers, this is fairly easy for me to deal with. it also helps that i can read/understand the m4 macros (for the most part), and have been able to decypher the sendmail.cf. after 6 years of adminning my own machines, and switching between postfix, sendmail, and qmail, i've finally settled on sendmail. i don't have a good reason to change, and so far no one person has been able to give me a good arguement to change. > See also: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/muas i've generally enjoyed reading your rants and raves, rick. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From atporter at primate.net Thu Sep 19 13:06:07 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:06:07 -0700 Subject: [buug] GPG Keysigning Message-ID: <20020919200607.GE22271@primate.net> I'll be bringing copies of my GPG fingerprint again tonight (and to every future meeting I imagine), just in case there's anyone besides Ian who's interested in signing keys. If you're curious, but don't know what I'm talking about: http://www.cryptnet.net/fdp/crypto/gpg-party.html From jan at caustic.org Thu Sep 19 13:08:51 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] GPG Keysigning In-Reply-To: <20020919200607.GE22271@primate.net> Message-ID: <20020919130813.Q67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Aaron T Porter wrote: > I'll be bringing copies of my GPG fingerprint again tonight (and > to every future meeting I imagine), just in case there's anyone besides > Ian who's interested in signing keys. If you're curious, but don't know > what I'm talking about: one of these days i'll have to make one of the meetings. maybe once i have a fully functioning vehicle again. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From jammer at weak.org Thu Sep 19 13:23:45 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:23:45 -0700 Subject: [buug] GPG Keysigning In-Reply-To: <20020919130813.Q67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> References: <20020919200607.GE22271@primate.net> <20020919130813.Q67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20020919202345.GC2837@weak.org> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 01:08:51PM -0700, f.johan.beisser wrote: > On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Aaron T Porter wrote: > > > I'll be bringing copies of my GPG fingerprint again tonight (and > > to every future meeting I imagine), just in case there's anyone besides > > Ian who's interested in signing keys. If you're curious, but don't know > > what I'm talking about: > > one of these days i'll have to make one of the meetings. > > maybe once i have a fully functioning vehicle again. The meetings are conveniently held 2 blocks from the downtown Berkeley BART station, if you're not mass-transit averse... -Jon From nick at zork.net Thu Sep 19 13:25:51 2002 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:25:51 -0700 Subject: [buug] Blocking sendmail In-Reply-To: <20020919020502.GZ15786@linuxmafia.com> References: <3D890769.FA29AACB@pacbell.net> <20020918161156.L67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20020919020502.GZ15786@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20020919202551.GN25377@zork.net> begin Rick Moen Lives Three Hours from Nowhere quotation: > See also: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/muas The requested URL /~rick/linux-info/muas was not found on this server. From nick at zork.net Thu Sep 19 13:30:23 2002 From: nick at zork.net (Nick Moffitt) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:30:23 -0700 Subject: [buug] Blocking sendmail In-Reply-To: <20020919202551.GN25377@zork.net> References: <3D890769.FA29AACB@pacbell.net> <20020918161156.L67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20020919020502.GZ15786@linuxmafia.com> <20020919202551.GN25377@zork.net> Message-ID: <20020919203023.GO25377@zork.net> begin Nick Moffitt quotation: > The requested URL /~rick/linux-info/muas was not found on this server. Thinking in context, I realized that you meant: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/mtas You even made that typo at the top of the above article. Easy enough to do. I always find that the argument about qmail and the FHS is amusing, as qmail is *proprietary software* and thus belongs in its own tree inside /opt. Thus the "everything under /var/qmail" complaint should really be resolved with "everything under /opt/qmail". After all, that's where the FHS says third-party proprietary vendor packages should *go*. From jzitt at josephzitt.com Thu Sep 19 13:50:01 2002 From: jzitt at josephzitt.com (Joseph Zitt) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:50:01 -0700 Subject: [buug] GPG Keysigning In-Reply-To: <20020919200607.GE22271@primate.net> References: <20020919200607.GE22271@primate.net> Message-ID: <20020919135001.2f15a5e6.jzitt@josephzitt.com> On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:06:07 -0700 Aaron T Porter wrote: > > I'll be bringing copies of my GPG fingerprint again tonight (and > to every future meeting I imagine), just in case there's anyone > besides Ian who's interested in signing keys. If you're curious, but > don't know what I'm talking about: > > http://www.cryptnet.net/fdp/crypto/gpg-party.html I hope to come to this, and have been reading the gpg-party.html document. It says to upload the key to a keyserver, but I'm not clear as to the address of the appropriate keyserver. And should I email the fingerprint to someone, or just physically bring it with me? -- | josephzitt at josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | From jan at caustic.org Thu Sep 19 14:02:17 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] GPG Keysigning In-Reply-To: <20020919202345.GC2837@weak.org> Message-ID: <20020919140000.T67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Jon McClintock wrote: > The meetings are conveniently held 2 blocks from the downtown Berkeley > BART station, if you're not mass-transit averse... true. the real issue is getting the vehicles fixed. i'm pulling more of the engine out of the car tonight. eventually, i'll have it rebuilt and working again. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From atporter at primate.net Thu Sep 19 14:20:33 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:20:33 -0700 Subject: [buug] GPG Keysigning In-Reply-To: <20020919135001.2f15a5e6.jzitt@josephzitt.com> References: <20020919200607.GE22271@primate.net> <20020919135001.2f15a5e6.jzitt@josephzitt.com> Message-ID: <20020919212033.GF22271@primate.net> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 01:50:01PM -0700, Joseph Zitt wrote: > I hope to come to this, and have been reading the gpg-party.html > document. It says to upload the key to a keyserver, but I'm not clear > as to the address of the appropriate keyserver. And should I email the > fingerprint to someone, or just physically bring it with me? My .gnupg/options file has the line: keyserver wwwkeys.us.pgp.net So after having made my key, I do: $ gpg --list-secret /home/atporter/.gnupg/secring.gpg --------------------------------- sec 1024D/06AA8E37 2002-08-09 Aaron T Porter ssb 2048g/E03C3ABA 2002-08-09 Which shows me that my keyID is "06AA8E37". So then I do this to send the key to the keyserver. $ gpg --send-keys 06AA8E37 You should send your key to the keyserver, and then take the fingerprint. You *must* bring a copy of your fingerprint with you (if you're really nice, a copy for everyone that you expect to sign your key) but in a pinch pen & paper work too. You get your fingerprint by doing this, you should bring/copy both the "pub" line and the "Key fingerprint" line. $ gpg --fingerprint 06AA8E37 pub 1024D/06AA8E37 2002-08-09 Aaron T Porter Key fingerprint = 3963 8381 4B94 BD51 6F29 80E5 64B0 7250 06AA 8E37 sub 2048g/E03C3ABA 2002-08-09 When you get home, you'll want to pull down all the keys that you are planning to sign: $ gpg --recv-key 06AA8E37 Then you'll do a --fingerprint and double check the values against the ones you were shown at the meeting. If they match, you can go ahead and sign the key: $ gpg --edit 06AA8E37 pub 1024D/06AA8E37 created: 2002-08-09 expires: never trust: u/u sub 2048g/E03C3ABA created: 2002-08-09 expires: never (1). Aaron T Porter Command> sign Command> save From sobolak at myrealbox.com Thu Sep 19 14:37:53 2002 From: sobolak at myrealbox.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:37:53 -0500 Subject: [buug] GPG Keysigning Message-ID: <1032471473.36481c00sobolak@myrealbox.com> Aaron wrote: >So after having made my key, I do: Call me St. Thomas, but this seems awfully complicated. Not for Sysadmin types, but for humans. The hope that normal users will ever be able to exchange email securely seems so distant. brian -- Brian Sobolak http://www.planetshwoop.com/ sobolak at myrealbox.com From atporter at primate.net Thu Sep 19 14:42:29 2002 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:42:29 -0700 Subject: [buug] GPG Keysigning In-Reply-To: <1032471473.36481c00sobolak@myrealbox.com> References: <1032471473.36481c00sobolak@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20020919214229.GH22271@primate.net> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 04:37:53PM -0500, Brian Sobolak wrote: > Call me St. Thomas, but this seems awfully > complicated. Not for Sysadmin types, but for humans. > > The hope that normal users will ever be able to > exchange email securely seems so distant. Security is easy, I can encrypt away all day but how do I know that I'm actually using the key of the person on the far end? It would be trivial to write up a quick perl/visual basic/java script that would generate a key and send it to a public keyserver. Also quite trivial to hack your MTA to poll for a public key before sending out mail, but how do you know you're getting a valid key? Trust is the hard part, encryption is easy. From jammer at weak.org Thu Sep 19 14:42:40 2002 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:42:40 -0700 Subject: [buug] GPG Keysigning In-Reply-To: <1032471473.36481c00sobolak@myrealbox.com> References: <1032471473.36481c00sobolak@myrealbox.com> Message-ID: <20020919214240.GD2837@weak.org> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 04:37:53PM -0500, Brian Sobolak wrote: > > Aaron wrote: > >So after having made my key, I do: > > Call me St. Thomas, but this seems awfully > complicated. Not for Sysadmin types, but for humans. > > The hope that normal users will ever be able to > exchange email securely seems so distant. Trust is complicated. -Jon From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Sep 19 16:14:31 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:14:31 -0700 Subject: [buug] Blocking sendmail In-Reply-To: <20020919203023.GO25377@zork.net> References: <3D890769.FA29AACB@pacbell.net> <20020918161156.L67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> <20020919020502.GZ15786@linuxmafia.com> <20020919202551.GN25377@zork.net> <20020919203023.GO25377@zork.net> Message-ID: <20020919231430.GQ15786@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Nick Moffitt (nick at zork.net): > Thinking in context, I realized that you meant: > http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/mtas > > You even made that typo at the top of the above article. Easy enough > to do. Yeah, I was either half-asleep, a dumbass, or both. Thanks for the post, as I was just about to post here about having changed the filename -- plus correcting various errors within, and adding a few things (probably most of those after you read it). I decided to restrict polemics entirely to the footnotes, etc. > I always find that the argument about qmail and the FHS is amusing, as > qmail is *proprietary software* and thus belongs in its own tree > inside /opt. Thus the "everything under /var/qmail" complaint should > really be resolved with "everything under /opt/qmail". After all, > that's where the FHS says third-party proprietary vendor packages > should *go*. Of course, Dan wants to argue with the entire world about _that_, too. It's all part of the noisy and protracted birth process for djbnix, I guess. -- Cheers, If C gives you enough rope to hang yourself, then C++ give you enough Rick Moen to bind and gag your neighbourhood, rig the sails on a small ship, rick at linuxmafia.com and still have enough to hang yourself from the yardarm. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Sep 19 19:47:45 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 19:47:45 -0700 Subject: [buug] GPG Keysigning In-Reply-To: <20020919135001.2f15a5e6.jzitt@josephzitt.com> References: <20020919200607.GE22271@primate.net> <20020919135001.2f15a5e6.jzitt@josephzitt.com> Message-ID: <20020920024745.GA27180@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Joseph Zitt (jzitt at josephzitt.com): > I hope to come to this, and have been reading the gpg-party.html > document. It says to upload the key to a keyserver, but I'm not clear > as to the address of the appropriate keyserver. All the keyservers propagate new keys to one another. So, any of them will do. I tend to use dtype.org (Drew Streib's). -- Cheers, Always remember: Clones are people two! Rick Moen rick at linuxmafia.com From jzitt at josephzitt.com Thu Sep 19 21:43:15 2002 From: jzitt at josephzitt.com (Joseph Zitt) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:43:15 -0700 Subject: [buug] GPG Keysigning In-Reply-To: <20020919212033.GF22271@primate.net> References: <20020919200607.GE22271@primate.net> <20020919135001.2f15a5e6.jzitt@josephzitt.com> <20020919212033.GF22271@primate.net> Message-ID: <20020919214315.39d496b9.jzitt@josephzitt.com> OK, I've now signed and resent the three keys I received at the meeting. Thanks for the help! On Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:20:33 -0700 Aaron T Porter wrote: > On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 01:50:01PM -0700, Joseph Zitt wrote: > > > I hope to come to this, and have been reading the gpg-party.html > > document. It says to upload the key to a keyserver, but I'm not > > clear as to the address of the appropriate keyserver. And should I > > email the fingerprint to someone, or just physically bring it with > > me? > > My .gnupg/options file has the line: > keyserver wwwkeys.us.pgp.net > > So after having made my key, I do: > $ gpg --list-secret > /home/atporter/.gnupg/secring.gpg > --------------------------------- > sec 1024D/06AA8E37 2002-08-09 Aaron T Porter > ssb 2048g/E03C3ABA 2002-08-09 > > Which shows me that my keyID is "06AA8E37". So then I do this to > send the key to the keyserver. > > $ gpg --send-keys 06AA8E37 > > You should send your key to the keyserver, and then take the > fingerprint. You *must* bring a copy of your fingerprint with you (if > you're really nice, a copy for everyone that you expect to sign your > key) but in a pinch pen & paper work too. You get your fingerprint by > doing this, you should bring/copy both the "pub" line and the "Key > fingerprint" line. > > $ gpg --fingerprint 06AA8E37 > pub 1024D/06AA8E37 2002-08-09 Aaron T Porter > Key fingerprint = 3963 8381 4B94 BD51 6F29 80E5 64B0 7250 06AA > 8E37 > sub 2048g/E03C3ABA 2002-08-09 > > > When you get home, you'll want to pull down all the keys that > you > are planning to sign: > > $ gpg --recv-key 06AA8E37 > > Then you'll do a --fingerprint and double check the values > against > the ones you were shown at the meeting. If they match, you can go > ahead and sign the key: > > $ gpg --edit 06AA8E37 > > pub 1024D/06AA8E37 created: 2002-08-09 expires: never trust: > u/u sub 2048g/E03C3ABA created: 2002-08-09 expires: never > (1). Aaron T Porter > > Command> sign > > > > Command> save > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug -- | josephzitt at josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | From hedges at ucsd.edu Wed Sep 25 16:11:47 2002 From: hedges at ucsd.edu (Mark Hedges) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 16:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] selinux? Message-ID: Just wondering if anyone dug into NSA's selinux mandatory access control system yet and whether or not anyone thinks it's worthwhile, better served by other packages, a vast conspiracy, or what. --m-- From jan at caustic.org Wed Sep 25 17:31:41 2002 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [buug] selinux? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020925172026.X67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Mark Hedges wrote: > Just wondering if anyone dug into NSA's selinux mandatory > access control system yet and whether or not anyone thinks it's > worthwhile, better served by other packages, a vast conspiracy, > or what. --m-- selinux isn't to bad. if you need ACLs, and compartmentalisation. outside of that, it's not all that interesting or useful. on the other hand, it's a good implementation of a compartmentalised OS, insuring that one user can't abuse another, nor access information they're not supposed to.. and this includes root (root is a user, after all). a related project that i know of, is TrustedBSD[0] (some of the features are included in FreeBSD-CURRENT). It's not exactly the same as NSA's SELinux, and doesn't intend to be. [0] http://www.trustedbsd.org -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Sep 27 07:39:56 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 07:39:56 -0700 Subject: [buug] CABAL installfest, tomorrow (Sat. Sept 28) Message-ID: <20020927143956.GB6134@linuxmafia.com> _This_ Saturday, 10-4, CABAL and BALUG will have another Linux / BSD installfest at the Robert Austin Show inside the Oakland Convention Center. Join us as event staff, and you can get into the RobAusCo (which is a big indoor fleamarket for new hardware/software goods). Details: http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/installfest/ (Write me off-list if you want to help staff our table.) You don't have to need help. You're welcome to just come and hang out, and chat. _Or_ you can come to the regular 4th-Saturday CABAL meeting afterwards, starting 6 PM in Menlo Park (http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/). We'll probably run the BBQ, as usual. CABAL meetings are relaxed and comfortable compared to the RobAusCo computer shows, and you're _still_ welcome to bring your machines along and work on them or install your choice of Linux/BSD distributions on them. I always bring along my large collection of Linux and BSD CD-ROMs, which people are welcome to duplicate using _their_ blank CDRs on my CD burner. The full list of available offerings is at http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/installfest/#distros Here are some recent additions. (Sorry, RH 8.0 doesn't become available until Monday morning.) o Linux-Mandrake 9.0 (3 disks) -- most-popular desktop distro. o Lycoris Desktop/LX beta (build 51) -- another popular desktop distribution. 2 disks, not including CD#2 = source code. o Libranet 2.7 beta (2 disks) -- my TOP recommendations for a desktop system: A Debian 3.0 variant w/easy installer, graphical admin tools, the whole candy store of desktop apps, Real Player / Flash plug-ins, etc. Latest GNOME & KDE, Opera 6.0, etc. Extensive hardware autodetection (sound, USB, printers...). This beta is no i longer available on the Net: They want you to buy the 2.7 release-version boxed set. o CRUX 0.94 -- Lightweight, 686-optimised distribution w/BSD init and a BSD-style "ports" system for updating/adding software. http://www.crux.nu/ o Vermillion 7.1.1 and 7.3.1 alpha9 (3 disks, each) -- Michael Jennings is continuing to maintain what used to be called Red Hat with VA Linux Enhancements (RH-VALE). It's best understood as RH with much improved quality control and better hardware support. Often, Vermillion/RH-VALE will install on systems that hang RH. (Vermillion "alpha" versions tend to be very reliable.) o Borland Kylix 3.0 Open Edition -- This is Borland's Delphi (Object Pascal) and C++ kit, ported to Linux. Licence of the Open Edition permits creation of only GPLed code. If you want to issue proprietary binaries, you'll have to buy the full Kylix boxed set. Clever, eh? o SOT Office 2002 -- Variant form of OpenOffice.org from SOT Finnish Software Engineering Ltd., adding improved spelling checker and hyphenation dictionaries, templates, enhanced on-line help, and PDF manual. Also available in a boxed set with commercial support. The UnitedLinux beta3 images are out (3 disks, disk 3 being source code only), but ftp sites are so hammered that I'm very unlikely to finish getting them by tomorrow. Which is a pity because it sounds interesting. Reportedly, it most closely resembles SuSE 8.1, including use of YaST2. 'Hope to see you on Saturday! -- Cheers, There are only 10 types of people in this world -- Rick Moen those who understand binary arithmetic and those who don't. rick at linuxmafia.com From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Sep 27 13:53:28 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:53:28 -0700 Subject: [buug] Installfest follow-up Message-ID: <20020927205328.GP19163@linuxmafia.com> I forgot to mention that the Robert Austin Company, which runs the computer shows at which we have installfests, charges $8 admission at the door, _but_ you can get around that if you get a coupon mailed to you from a Web form on their site: http://www.robertaustin.com/ From webmaster at hawaiidakine.com Fri Sep 27 15:32:23 2002 From: webmaster at hawaiidakine.com (al plant) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:32:23 -1000 Subject: [buug] Scanner and zip help... Message-ID: <3D94DC77.333EC3@hawaiidakine.com> Help for some older stuff.... Has anyone had experience in running a Cannon ISA Connected Scanner IX 4015 on Linux or (Unix) FreeBSD platforms? I want to eliminate another windows 98 box that keeps crashing even though it is only running a scanner and zip drive backup. Any pointers to how two's or personal experience appreciated. Aloha! Al Plant - Webmaster http://hawaiidakine.com Providing FAST DSL Service for $28.00 /mo. Member Small Business Hawaii. Running FreeBSD 4.5 UNIX & Caldera Linux 2.4 & RedHat 7.2 Support OPEN SOURCE in Business Computing. Phone 808-622-0043 From robert at namodn.com Sat Sep 28 17:59:43 2002 From: robert at namodn.com (Rob Helmer) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 17:59:43 -0700 Subject: [buug] selinux? In-Reply-To: <20020925172026.X67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org>; from jan@caustic.org on Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 05:31:41PM -0700 References: <20020925172026.X67581-100000@pogo.caustic.org> Message-ID: <20020928175943.C2520@namodn.com> Hello, I find SELinux interesting and useful, because I've already explored User Mode Linux, firewalls, and intrusion detection systems and I don't feel that this is enough ( I've been pretty impressed with User Mode Linux though as far as compartmentalization goes... I'll probably end up using SELinux in addition to the above ). Mandatory Access Controls are pretty cool. MACs can remove the need to have an all-powerful super-user by segmenting access to various system calls ( among other things ). Trusted Solaris doesn't have an accessable root account IIRC ( not sure if the kernel doesn't support a superuser, or if the account is disabled. I hope it's the former ). That's much better than the current "user vs. root" security model people rely on. Usually, root is too powerful and the user is not powerful enough, so people circumvent the system using SetUID scripts or sudo. Here are some comparisons and contrasts between SELinux and TrustedBSD ( and other systems ) : http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/doc/freenix01/node19.html Small example - if I want to start a webserver on port 80 in a Unix system, I need to start the app as root, as root can bind to ports lower than 1024 but can also do things like load/remove kernel modules and tamper with all areas of the file system. I usually use "sudo" nowadays when I want to give scripts or users access to perform actions like this, but it becomes cumbersome when you have a large enough multi-user system and dangerous if you aren't careful about the scripts you write for users ( see all the security exploits on badly written Perl CGIs for instance, same concept. Of course, if you don't run your webserver as root and don't allow the webserver user to write to the files it is serving, someone exploiting a CGI isn't so bad, but not using the available security mechanisms is a different ( and more permanent ) problem. SELinux is alot better than sudo in that it puts the restrictions directly between user space and the system calls, rather than the admittedly roundabout way you have to go with sudo. I'll leave it as an exercize to the reader to compare and contrast starting Apache as root ( via sudo ) or doing it this way : http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/list-archive/2559.html HTH, Rob Helmer P.S. - if you are running Debian, there's a quick way to get up and running on SELinux in Woody or Sid - http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2002/debian-devel-200209/msg01568.html On Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 05:31:41PM -0700, f.johan.beisser wrote: > On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Mark Hedges wrote: > > > Just wondering if anyone dug into NSA's selinux mandatory > > access control system yet and whether or not anyone thinks it's > > worthwhile, better served by other packages, a vast conspiracy, > > or what. --m-- > > selinux isn't to bad. if you need ACLs, and compartmentalisation. outside > of that, it's not all that interesting or useful. on the other hand, it's > a good implementation of a compartmentalised OS, insuring that one user > can't abuse another, nor access information they're not supposed to.. and > this includes root (root is a user, after all). > > a related project that i know of, is TrustedBSD[0] (some of the features > are included in FreeBSD-CURRENT). It's not exactly the same as NSA's > SELinux, and doesn't intend to be. > > [0] http://www.trustedbsd.org > > -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ > http://caustic.org/~jan jan at caustic.org > "John Ashcroft is really just the reanimated corpse > of J. Edgar Hoover." -- Tim Triche > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu Mon Sep 30 00:29:27 2002 From: cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 03:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [buug] Penguin mints Message-ID: For the Linux-lover who needs a pick-me-up... I just discovered that Andronico's sells "Penguin Caffeinated Peppermints." These are the same mints that are sold by Copyleft (http://www.copyleft.net/item.phtml?dynamic=1&referer=%2Fcategory.phtml%3Fpage%3Dcategory_other.phtml&page=product_838_front.phtml). According to the back of the box, "3 penguins are the caffeine equivalent of 1 cola beverage." Bet you didn't know that. Perhaps best of all is another note on the tin: "Confused? 1-800-882-5615." I expect that I'll be calling that number a lot (maybe they can help me find a job.) Claude From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Sep 30 01:09:44 2002 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:09:44 -0700 Subject: [buug] Penguin mints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020930080943.GL19163@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Claude Rubinson (cmsclaud at arches.uga.edu): > For the Linux-lover who needs a pick-me-up... I just discovered that > Andronico's sells "Penguin Caffeinated Peppermints." These are the same > mints that are sold by Copyleft > (http://www.copyleft.net/item.phtml?dynamic=1&referer=%2Fcategory.phtml%3Fpage%3Dcategory_other.phtml&page=product_838_front.phtml). > > According to the back of the box, "3 penguins are the caffeine equivalent > of 1 cola beverage." Bet you didn't know that. I wasn't fully aware of that on January 31, 2001, when I was head of one of the two teams playing in Nick Petreley's "Golden Penguin Bowl" quiz show at LinuxWorld Expo in NYC. That morning, I absent-mindedly ate half a tin of Penguin mints. I believe the competition was at 11 AM, and my team aced it, thanks in large part to, my um, enhanced reaction time. 'Course, I also didn't sleep for the following two nights. -- Cheers, "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first Rick Moen woman she meets, and then teams up with three complete strangers rick at linuxmafia.com to kill again." -- Rick Polito's That TV Guy column, describing the movie _The Wizard of Oz_