From joh16212 at msn.com Wed Dec 10 12:03:05 2003 From: joh16212 at msn.com (john smith) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:03:05 +0000 Subject: [buug] Newbie help installing FBSD Message-ID: Please I'm trying to install Fre BSD for the first time . Everything went fine ( I think ) Until I tryed to start the Xserver or configure it. I have run the configuration so many times that I am going crazy I don't know what to do now.The problem I have is that when I try to start the X server(GUI) KDE (all of them) but I'm going to refer to KDE because it is my favorite. KDE start loading it looks like it loads ok but as soon I move the mouse everything goes crazy and I lose control of everything. And I can't go pass that. I'm stuck there. Please some one help _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From jan at caustic.org Wed Dec 10 12:26:52 2003 From: jan at caustic.org (f.johan.beisser) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:26:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] Newbie help installing FBSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031210122111.E31605@pogo.caustic.org> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, john smith wrote: > Please I'm trying to install Fre BSD for the first time . Everything > went fine ( I think ) Until I tryed to start the Xserver or configure > it. I have run the configuration so many times that I am going crazy I > don't know what to do now.The problem I have is that when I try to start > the X server(GUI) KDE (all of them) but I'm going to refer to KDE > because it is my favorite. KDE start loading it looks like it loads ok > but as soon I move the mouse everything goes crazy and I lose control of > everything. And I can't go pass that. I'm stuck there. Please some one > help this is really a question for FreeBSD-questions at freebsd.org. 1. to get X up, you need to go through the normal X configuration software. since 4.2.0, X --configure seems to work fine. 2. once you have the X server up (with twm, or some other light wm), and the Xwrapper installed, get KDE to fire up through the normal instructions. the FreeBSD installer does some of this automagically, if you choose to install X. -------/ f. johan beisser /--------------------------------------+ The other day I asked former Yankees pitcher Jim Bouton what he thought of our great victory over Iraq, and he said, "Mohammed Ali versus Mr. Rogers." -- kurt vonnegut, 5.9.03 From john at jjdev.com Wed Dec 10 12:42:14 2003 From: john at jjdev.com (johnd) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:42:14 -0800 Subject: [buug] Newbie help installing FBSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031210204214.GA5914@stang.jjdev.com> in your /etc/X11/XF86Config there is a line that set the mouse protocol you may have the wrong one look for something like Option "Protocol" ... try setting it to a different protocol like maybe IntelliMouse, IMPS/2, or PS/2 On Wed, Dec 10, 2003 at 08:03:05PM +0000, john smith wrote: > Please I'm trying to install Fre BSD for the first time . Everything went > fine ( I think ) Until I tryed to start the Xserver or configure it. I have > run the configuration so many times that I am going crazy I don't know what > to do now.The problem I have is that when I try to start the X server(GUI) > KDE > (all of them) but I'm going to refer to KDE because it is my favorite. KDE > start loading it looks like it loads ok but as soon I move the mouse > everything goes crazy and I lose control of everything. > And I can't go pass that. I'm stuck there. > Please some one help > > _________________________________________________________________ > Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the > FREE McAfee online computer scan! > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug -- Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987) From PSoltani at iitcorporation.com Wed Dec 10 15:23:05 2003 From: PSoltani at iitcorporation.com (Patrick Soltani) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:23:05 -0800 Subject: [buug] Newbie help installing FBSD Message-ID: <38F77311620C9641A1D054FD37AE6580A3ACB3@iitexch01.iitdomain.com> Hi john, I assume you have installed XFree86 software during the CD install. Are you running xf86config to configure or using /stand/sysinstall? BTW, don't know if you are using 4.x or 5.x version, they work slightly differently. Do you have a serial mouse, USB or PS/2 type mouse? Not knowing anything about your system, my suggestion is to disable moused in your /etc/rc.conf file like so: moused_enable="NO" moused_type="NO" you can reboot or just kill the moused. Then copy the following lines into the file .xinitrc exec startkde So one line that says "exec startkde" and the file name is .xinitrc which resides in the home directory of the person you are going to run kde. Mine looks like this: psoltani at fwnat:/home/psoltani $more .xinitrc exec startkde psoltani at fwnat:/home/psoltani $ This usually works and your mouse should work if it is not one of those new dan-fangled one. Post what you get here and I am sure we'll be able to help you fix this ;-). Regards, Patrick Soltani > -----Original Message----- > From: buug-admin at weak.org [mailto:buug-admin at weak.org]On > Behalf Of john > smith > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:03 PM > To: buug at weak.org > Subject: [buug] Newbie help installing FBSD > > > Please I'm trying to install Fre BSD for the first time . > Everything went > fine ( I think ) Until I tryed to start the Xserver or > configure it. I have > run the configuration so many times that I am going crazy I > don't know what > to do now.The problem I have is that when I try to start the > X server(GUI) > KDE > (all of them) but I'm going to refer to KDE because it is my > favorite. KDE > start loading it looks like it loads ok but as soon I move the mouse > everything goes crazy and I lose control of everything. > And I can't go pass that. I'm stuck there. > Please some one help > > _________________________________________________________________ > Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find > out. Run the > FREE McAfee online computer scan! > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From joh16212 at msn.com Thu Dec 11 23:02:40 2003 From: joh16212 at msn.com (john smith) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:02:40 +0000 Subject: [buug] Thanks, Installing FBSD Message-ID: Patrick Soltani , johnd , f.johan.beisser. Thanks for responding to my question . But I couldn't get anything done. All my fault. System Information: Free BSD 5.1 Install with CD's (sysinstall) Installed Xf86 with sysinstall( I installed everything that refer to X11-(XF86),server client,everything Installed all Windows Managers (prefer KDE ) Mouse sp/2 Generic (wheel) Keyboard Generic Video card ( 2 ) 1- Integreded in Motherboard (Intel 815) 2- PNY-Verto-vanta-16MB sdram (nvidia vanta) In the grafic sysinstall configuration of the Xserver I removed the Intel card,and also removed the second monitor , yes it shows two video cards and two monitors . The monitors have a red check mark on them like if something is wrong with the monitos. With the configuration of the video card . like I said I revoded Intel card and the monitor that shows conected to it. And I use the nvidia with the envidia drver that loads automaticaly . But doesn't work. I use the vesa driver too but it doesn't work ( I mean KDE loads OK but when I move the mouse .the pointer desapair or actually it goes to the upper right corner of the screen but when I move the mouse againg ,windows appear and desappear all cryzy and I have to press Alt-Ctrl-Backspace to get out of KDE. I also removed the mouse demon (I think it is-demon)With no mouse KDE loads the same way And I can close all the windows that load up .but after I closed all the windows I get stuck I don't know what to do . I need the mouse to get around in KDE. Patrick, you told me to use a shell command , but I don't know anythig about that ( I want to learn) but I tryed I did: # cd /etc/rc.cof command not found I did # cd /etc OK I did # ls a bunch of files shwed up but not rc.conf Ok guys I hope this info will give you a better idea of my problem . And hopefully you will help me to fix it. Thanks _________________________________________________________________ Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx From tony at tonysweb.com Fri Dec 12 07:58:43 2003 From: tony at tonysweb.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:58:43 -0700 Subject: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system Message-ID: <004801c3c0c8$d2654430$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wfhoney at pacbell.net Fri Dec 12 08:20:32 2003 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:20:32 -0800 Subject: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system In-Reply-To: <004801c3c0c8$d2654430$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> References: <004801c3c0c8$d2654430$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> Message-ID: <3FD9EAD0.3040200@pacbell.net> Tony wrote: > I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine > through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely > from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? Check out VNC... http://www.realvnc.com/winvnc.html From togo at of.net Fri Dec 12 08:28:28 2003 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:28:28 -0800 Subject: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system In-Reply-To: <004801c3c0c8$d2654430$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> References: <004801c3c0c8$d2654430$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> Message-ID: <20031212162828.GA6018@of.net> According to Tony, > I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? we use VNC + putty for windows clients and (linux) X servers Have also used X server implimentations for windows, both xfree86 and hummingbird, but vnc works best for us: - open source - tolerant of disconnection/reconnection - high performance in the following combos vncserver on unix, vncviewer on unix vncserver on unix, vncviewer on windows From togo at of.net Fri Dec 12 08:35:07 2003 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:35:07 -0800 Subject: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system In-Reply-To: <3FD9EAD0.3040200@pacbell.net> References: <004801c3c0c8$d2654430$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> <3FD9EAD0.3040200@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20031212163507.GB6018@of.net> According to Bill Honeycutt, > Tony wrote: > > >I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine > >through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely > >from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > Check out VNC... > > http://www.realvnc.com/winvnc.html I use tightvnc.org instead. Over my DSL line, tightvnc with ... -encodings "tight copyrect CoRRE" ... paints an entire 1500x1100 16-bit screen in 1 sec, while realvnc takes 10 sec. But if you (Tony) are doing this on a LAN only, "raw" encoding is what you want, and either is fine. Also, in that case, you won't need putty either (putty gives you ssh tunnelling). A tip: when using vnc, avoid patterned wallpapers and gradients for highest performance. I use blackbox with "Minimal" style. From bferrell at baywinds.org Fri Dec 12 08:10:24 2003 From: bferrell at baywinds.org (Bruce Ferrell) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:10:24 -0800 Subject: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system In-Reply-To: <004801c3c0c8$d2654430$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> References: <004801c3c0c8$d2654430$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> Message-ID: <3FD9E870.2030405@baywinds.org> sure. Install cygwin's xfree component on the XP box and kick your X applications back to that display. Or you could spend a whole bunch of money and get a commercial X server for your XP box. I prefer the cygwin solution Tony wrote: > I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine > through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely > from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > From john at jjdev.com Fri Dec 12 10:42:40 2003 From: john at jjdev.com (johnd) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:42:40 -0800 Subject: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system In-Reply-To: <004801c3c0c8$d2654430$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> References: <004801c3c0c8$d2654430$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> Message-ID: <20031212184240.GB9532@stang.jjdev.com> if you install cygwin and select X and use ssh make sure you have your sshd config option set to X11Forwarding yes and when you ssh over there use the -X flag or make sure your ssh client config file is set to do it On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 08:58:43AM -0700, Tony wrote: > I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > -- Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987) From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 12 12:39:50 2003 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:39:50 -0800 Subject: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system In-Reply-To: <3FD9E870.2030405@baywinds.org> References: <004801c3c0c8$d2654430$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> <3FD9E870.2030405@baywinds.org> Message-ID: <20031212203949.GZ9850@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bruce Ferrell (bferrell at baywinds.org): > sure. Install cygwin's xfree component on the XP box and kick your X > applications back to that display. > > Or you could spend a whole bunch of money and get a commercial X server > for your XP box. I prefer the cygwin solution The Cygwin XFree86 port for legacy Win32 systems has reputedly gotten quite good. A list of options believed to be exhaustive can be found at link "X Servers for Win32" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Legacy_Microsoft . But honestly, it seems to me that our correspondent is solving the wrong problem. It'd be so much nicer to use a nice *BSD or Linux X11 desktop system as one's console, and get to remotely located legacy Win32 boxes as required via VNC / RFB or rdesktop / RDP 4. Details at the link "VNC and Similar" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Legacy_Microsoft . -- Cheers, * Contributing Editor, Linux Gazette * Rick Moen -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- rick at linuxmafia.com From tony at tonysweb.com Sat Dec 13 13:14:31 2003 From: tony at tonysweb.com (Tony) Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:14:31 -0700 Subject: [buug] Re: Buug digest, Vol 1 #576 - 7 msgs References: <20031213153824.6260.39281.Mailman@weak.org> Message-ID: <000501c3c1be$1f56e000$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> I installed Cygwin and it works pretty good on my XP box. However, When I ssh over to my BSD box I am still getting the same issus as I was when I was using putty. It starts to load with a message "could not init font element path /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/speedo/, removing from list!" And just hangs. However the Xserver does start up on my XP Box. and does not get sent to my remote system. I do not get this error starting X locally on either box. Anybody see this before. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:38 AM Subject: Buug digest, Vol 1 #576 - 7 msgs > Send Buug mailing list submissions to > buug at weak.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > buug-request at weak.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > buug-admin at weak.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Buug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. runing X remotely on an XP system (Tony) > 2. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system (Bill Honeycutt) > 3. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system (Tony Godshall) > 4. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system (Tony Godshall) > 5. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system (Bruce Ferrell) > 6. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system (johnd) > 7. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system (Rick Moen) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > From: "Tony" > To: > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:58:43 -0700 > Subject: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3C08E.253FE7E0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine = > through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely = > from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3C08E.253FE7E0 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > > > >
I have a small network at home.  I = > can connect=20 > to my freeBSD system fine through SSH or telnet.  however I cannot = > run any=20 > of my X apps remotely from my XP system.  Is there a way to do = > > this?
>
 
>
 
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3C08E.253FE7E0-- > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:20:32 -0800 > From: Bill Honeycutt > CC: buug at weak.org > Subject: Re: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system > > Tony wrote: > > > I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine > > through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely > > from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > Check out VNC... > > http://www.realvnc.com/winvnc.html > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:28:28 -0800 > From: Tony Godshall > To: Tony > Cc: buug at weak.org > Subject: Re: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system > > According to Tony, > > I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > we use VNC + putty for windows clients and (linux) X servers > > Have also used X server implimentations for windows, both xfree86 > and hummingbird, but vnc works best for us: > > - open source > > - tolerant of disconnection/reconnection > > - high performance in the following combos > > vncserver on unix, vncviewer on unix > vncserver on unix, vncviewer on windows > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:35:07 -0800 > From: Tony Godshall > To: Tony , Bill Honeycutt > Cc: buug at weak.org > Subject: Re: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system > > According to Bill Honeycutt, > > Tony wrote: > > > > >I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine > > >through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely > > >from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > > > Check out VNC... > > > > http://www.realvnc.com/winvnc.html > > I use tightvnc.org instead. Over my DSL line, tightvnc with ... > > -encodings "tight copyrect CoRRE" > > ... paints an entire 1500x1100 16-bit screen in 1 sec, while realvnc > takes 10 sec. > > But if you (Tony) are doing this on a LAN only, "raw" encoding > is what you want, and either is fine. Also, in that case, > you won't need putty either (putty gives you ssh tunnelling). > > A tip: when using vnc, avoid patterned wallpapers and > gradients for highest performance. I use blackbox with > "Minimal" style. > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:10:24 -0800 > From: Bruce Ferrell > To: Tony > CC: buug at weak.org > Subject: Re: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system > > sure. Install cygwin's xfree component on the XP box and kick your X > applications back to that display. > > Or you could spend a whole bunch of money and get a commercial X server > for your XP box. I prefer the cygwin solution > > Tony wrote: > > I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine > > through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely > > from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:42:40 -0800 > From: johnd > To: Tony > Cc: buug at weak.org > Subject: Re: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system > > if you install cygwin and select X and use ssh make sure you have your sshd > config option set to X11Forwarding yes > > and when you ssh over there use the -X flag or make sure your ssh client > config file is set to do it > > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 08:58:43AM -0700, Tony wrote: > > I have a small network at home. I can connect to my freeBSD system fine through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of my X apps remotely from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > > > -- > Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. > --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987) > > > --__--__-- > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:39:50 -0800 > To: buug at weak.org > Subject: Re: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system > From: Rick Moen > > Quoting Bruce Ferrell (bferrell at baywinds.org): > > > sure. Install cygwin's xfree component on the XP box and kick your X > > applications back to that display. > > > > Or you could spend a whole bunch of money and get a commercial X server > > for your XP box. I prefer the cygwin solution > > The Cygwin XFree86 port for legacy Win32 systems has reputedly gotten > quite good. A list of options believed to be exhaustive can be found at > link "X Servers for Win32" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Legacy_Microsoft . > > But honestly, it seems to me that our correspondent is solving the wrong > problem. It'd be so much nicer to use a nice *BSD or Linux X11 desktop > system as one's console, and get to remotely located legacy Win32 boxes > as required via VNC / RFB or rdesktop / RDP 4. Details at the link > "VNC and Similar" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Legacy_Microsoft . > > -- > Cheers, * Contributing Editor, Linux Gazette * > Rick Moen -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- > rick at linuxmafia.com > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > > End of Buug Digest > From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 18:09:51 2003 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 18:09:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] Re: Buug digest, Vol 1 #576 - 7 msgs In-Reply-To: <000501c3c1be$1f56e000$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> Message-ID: <20031215020951.24170.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Tony, Not only have we seen this before...we've seen it a thousand times! X is like a gateway drug though...pretty soon, you're hooked on *nix. Heres your checklist: 1) run X server on your windows box 2) ssh over to the *nix box (you may need to enable ssh X port forwarding if there is a firewall...see your ssh client HELP section..usually "-X" at command line or a checkbox somewhere) 3) check that $DISPLAY points back to your win box 4) run a test app like xclock...does it show up on win box? 5) run your other app (whatever it is) You can ignore the *font* messages...fonts are stored in files, and your X application is telling you that your font path is wacky...so what? there are fonts built-in that work fine. check and doublecheck your $DISPLAY variable. This web page might have more details (I didn't read it, I just googled it): http://www.realvnc.com/pipermail/vnc-list/2001-July/023886.html Bob R. hoping to make it back to a BUUG meeting but always on the wrong side of the bay --- Tony wrote: > I installed Cygwin and it works pretty good on my XP > box. However, When I > ssh over to my BSD box I am still getting the same > issus as I was when I was > using putty. It starts to load with a message > "could not init font element path > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/speedo/, removing > from list!" > > And just hangs. However the Xserver does start up > on my XP Box. and does > not get sent to my remote system. > > I do not get this error starting X locally on either > box. > > Anybody see this before. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:38 AM > Subject: Buug digest, Vol 1 #576 - 7 msgs > > > > Send Buug mailing list submissions to > > buug at weak.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide > Web, visit > > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > > buug-request at weak.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > buug-admin at weak.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Buug digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. runing X remotely on an XP system (Tony) > > 2. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system (Bill > Honeycutt) > > 3. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system (Tony > Godshall) > > 4. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system (Tony > Godshall) > > 5. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system (Bruce > Ferrell) > > 6. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system > (johnd) > > 7. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system (Rick > Moen) > > > > --__--__-- > > > > Message: 1 > > From: "Tony" > > To: > > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:58:43 -0700 > > Subject: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP system > > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3C08E.253FE7E0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > I have a small network at home. I can connect to > my freeBSD system fine = > > through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any > of my X apps remotely = > > from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3C08E.253FE7E0 > > Content-Type: text/html; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > Transitional//EN"> > > > > content=3D"text/html; = > > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > name=3DGENERATOR> > > > > > > > >
I have a small > network at home.  I = > > can connect=20 > > to my freeBSD system fine through SSH or > telnet.  however I cannot = > > run any=20 > > of my X apps remotely from my XP > system.  Is there a way to do = > > > > this?
> >
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> > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3C08E.253FE7E0-- > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:20:32 -0800 > > From: Bill Honeycutt > > CC: buug at weak.org > > Subject: Re: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP > system > > > > Tony wrote: > > > > > I have a small network at home. I can connect > to my freeBSD system fine > > > through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any > of my X apps remotely > > > from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > > > Check out VNC... > > > > http://www.realvnc.com/winvnc.html > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:28:28 -0800 > > From: Tony Godshall > > To: Tony > > Cc: buug at weak.org > > Subject: Re: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP > system > > > > According to Tony, > > > I have a small network at home. I can connect > to my freeBSD system fine > through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run any of > my X apps remotely from > my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > > > we use VNC + putty for windows clients and (linux) > X servers > > > > Have also used X server implimentations for > windows, both xfree86 > > and hummingbird, but vnc works best for us: > > > > - open source > > > > - tolerant of disconnection/reconnection > > > > - high performance in the following combos > > > > vncserver on unix, vncviewer on unix > > vncserver on unix, vncviewer on windows > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:35:07 -0800 > > From: Tony Godshall > > To: Tony , Bill Honeycutt > > > Cc: buug at weak.org > > Subject: Re: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP > system > > > > According to Bill Honeycutt, > > > Tony wrote: > > > > > > >I have a small network at home. I can connect > to my freeBSD system > fine > > > >through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run > any of my X apps remotely > > > >from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > > > > > Check out VNC... > > > > > > http://www.realvnc.com/winvnc.html > > > > I use tightvnc.org instead. Over my DSL line, > tightvnc with ... > > > > -encodings "tight copyrect CoRRE" > === message truncated === ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Exit Code Incorporated cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 22:04:30 2003 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:04:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] Re: Buug digest, Vol 1 #576 - 7 msgs - Issue resolved In-Reply-To: <000c01c3c2c6$53873970$0701a8c0@TONYSWEB.COM> Message-ID: <20031215060430.38508.qmail@web13811.mail.yahoo.com> No problem dude. My wife hates it when I can't find her X server. Bob R. --- Tony wrote: > Thank you Bob. Issue resolved. I was forgetting to > start the X Server on > my XP Box. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Read" > To: "Tony" > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 7:09 PM > Subject: Re: [buug] Re: Buug digest, Vol 1 #576 - 7 > msgs > > > > Hi Tony, > > Not only have we seen this before...we've seen it > a > > thousand times! X is like a gateway drug > > though...pretty soon, you're hooked on *nix. > > > > Heres your checklist: > > > > 1) run X server on your windows box > > 2) ssh over to the *nix box (you may need to > enable > > ssh X port forwarding if there is a firewall...see > > your ssh client HELP section..usually "-X" at > command > > line or a checkbox somewhere) > > 3) check that $DISPLAY points back to your win > box > > 4) run a test app like xclock...does it show up > on > > win box? > > 5) run your other app (whatever it is) > > > > You can ignore the *font* messages...fonts are > stored > > in files, and your X application is telling you > that > > your font path is wacky...so what? there are > fonts > > built-in that work fine. > > > > check and doublecheck your $DISPLAY variable. > This > > web page might have more details (I didn't read > it, I > > just googled it): > > > > > http://www.realvnc.com/pipermail/vnc-list/2001-July/023886.html > > > > Bob R. > > hoping to make it back to a BUUG meeting but > always on > > the wrong side of the bay > > > > > > --- Tony wrote: > > > I installed Cygwin and it works pretty good on > my XP > > > box. However, When I > > > ssh over to my BSD box I am still getting the > same > > > issus as I was when I was > > > using putty. It starts to load with a message > > > "could not init font element path > > > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/speedo/, removing > > > from list!" > > > > > > And just hangs. However the Xserver does start > up > > > on my XP Box. and does > > > not get sent to my remote system. > > > > > > I do not get this error starting X locally on > either > > > box. > > > > > > Anybody see this before. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:38 AM > > > Subject: Buug digest, Vol 1 #576 - 7 msgs > > > > > > > > > > Send Buug mailing list submissions to > > > > buug at weak.org > > > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide > > > Web, visit > > > > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or > body > > > 'help' to > > > > buug-request at weak.org > > > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > > buug-admin at weak.org > > > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line > so it > > > is more specific > > > > than "Re: Contents of Buug digest..." > > > > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > > > 1. runing X remotely on an XP system (Tony) > > > > 2. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system > (Bill > > > Honeycutt) > > > > 3. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system > (Tony > > > Godshall) > > > > 4. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system > (Tony > > > Godshall) > > > > 5. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system > (Bruce > > > Ferrell) > > > > 6. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system > > > (johnd) > > > > 7. Re: runing X remotely on an XP system > (Rick > > > Moen) > > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > > From: "Tony" > > > > To: > > > > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:58:43 -0700 > > > > Subject: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP > system > > > > > > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3C08E.253FE7E0 > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > > > I have a small network at home. I can connect > to > > > my freeBSD system fine = > > > > through SSH or telnet. however I cannot run > any > > > of my X apps remotely = > > > > from my XP system. Is there a way to do this? > > > > > > > > > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3C08E.253FE7E0 > > > > Content-Type: text/html; > > > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > > > > > Transitional//EN"> > > > > > > > > > > content=3D"text/html; = > > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > > > > > name=3DGENERATOR> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
I have a > small > > > network at home.  I = > > > > can connect=20 > > > > to my freeBSD system fine through SSH or > > > telnet.  however I cannot = > > > > run any=20 > > > > of my X apps remotely from my XP > > > system.  Is there a way to do = > > > > > > > > this?
> > > >
> > size=3D2> 
> > > >
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> > > > > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3C08E.253FE7E0-- > > > > > > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:20:32 -0800 > > > > From: Bill Honeycutt > > > > CC: buug at weak.org > > > > Subject: Re: [buug] runing X remotely on an XP > > > system > > > > > > > > Tony wrote: > > > > > > > > > I have a small network at home. I can > connect > === message truncated === ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Exit Code Incorporated cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From rubinson at email.arizona.edu Mon Dec 15 10:11:13 2003 From: rubinson at email.arizona.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:11:13 -0700 Subject: [buug] Tracking down lockups? Message-ID: <20031215181113.GC824@wagner> Hi all, My notebook's started experiencing "seemingly" random lockups where, every so often, X (keyboard and mouse) will freeze for a few seconds. I'm looking for suggestions on how to track down the problem. A review of the system logs doesn't reveal anything unusual. Where else should I be looking? Or is there something specific that I should be looking for that I might be missing? I'm not really sure when this started happening. A couple of weeks ago, perhaps. Unfortunately, in that time I've installed a new patch to gpm, a new module for my wireless card, and, of course, a number of package upgrades have come in from Debian. I do seem to notice this behavior more often when Mozilla-Firebird is running but that may just be my perception. Before I start disabling modules and daemons and trying to track down the cause by the process of elimination, I'm wondering if anyone might be able to provides some hints and/or techniques for tracking down such a problem? Thanks, Claude From bayard at newsguy.com Mon Dec 15 10:22:00 2003 From: bayard at newsguy.com (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 15 Dec 2003 10:22:00 -0800 Subject: [buug] Tracking down lockups? In-Reply-To: <20031215181113.GC824@wagner> References: <20031215181113.GC824@wagner> Message-ID: <871xr6aqlz.fsf@newsguy.com> Claude> Hi all, My notebook's started experiencing "seemingly" random Claude> lockups where, every so often, X (keyboard and mouse) will Claude> freeze for a few seconds. I'm looking for suggestions on how to Claude> track down the problem. A review of the system logs doesn't Claude> reveal anything unusual. Where else should I be looking? Or is Claude> there something specific that I should be looking for that I Claude> might be missing? Claude> I'm not really sure when this started happening. A couple of Claude> weeks ago, perhaps. Unfortunately, in that time I've installed Claude> a new patch to gpm, a new module for my wireless card, and, of Claude> course, a number of package upgrades have come in from Debian. Claude> I do seem to notice this behavior more often when Claude> Mozilla-Firebird is running but that may just be my perception. I bet it's gpm. Try disabling it and reconfiguring X accordingly (ie. switch to the real mouse device instead of /dev/gpminfo or whatever the repeater pipe is). -- Nothing can be explained to a stone. Or to a stoned person, either. From PSoltani at iitcorporation.com Mon Dec 15 11:19:24 2003 From: PSoltani at iitcorporation.com (Patrick Soltani) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:19:24 -0800 Subject: [buug] Thanks, Installing FBSD Message-ID: <38F77311620C9641A1D054FD37AE6580A3ACB6@iitexch01.iitdomain.com> Hi john, Ok, you have 2 video cards one built in the other maybe PCI or AGP. In any event, your best course of trouble shooting is to disable the builtin video card via BIOS. If the machine is booting and showing you the screen after disabling the builtin video, then we can do the following: - edit the /etc/rc.conf file, by issuing "vi /etc/rc.conf". No quotes tho, and add the following 2 lines: moused_enable="NO" moused_type="NO" OR if you are not familiar with navigating vi, then do the following at the bash or sh prompt: echo 'moused_enable="NO"' >> /etc/rc.conf echo 'moused_type="NO"' >> /etc/rc.conf which will append 2 lines to your /etc/rc.conf file. The purpose is to disable your moused from starting up and see if the xfree can use it's own driver and mouse support. Reboot the machine to do the following command as root: ps -waxu | grep -i moused If no moused process running then start KDE. I assume you already have a file in your home directory called .xinitrc and the content of the file should be: "exec startkde" with no quote. Again you can create the file like this: echo 'exec startkde' > /home/psoltani/.xinitrc Replace the /home/psoltani/ with the name of the user you are trying to run the kde on. lastly, here is my setting for the mouse: Section "InputDevice" # Identifier and driver Identifier "Mouse1" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "Auto" Option "Device" "/dev/psm0" Option "Buttons" "5" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" I have an Intellimouse, optical Microsoft mouse and works great with wheel scrolling , etc. The file you need to compare the above with is /etc/XF86Config. In your /etc/XF86Config you must have some setting like the above. Regards, Patrick Soltani. > > Free BSD 5.1 > Install with CD's (sysinstall) > Installed Xf86 with sysinstall( I installed everything that refer to > X11-(XF86),server client,everything > Installed all Windows Managers (prefer KDE ) > Mouse sp/2 Generic (wheel) > Keyboard Generic > Video card ( 2 ) 1- Integreded in Motherboard (Intel 815) > 2- PNY-Verto-vanta-16MB sdram (nvidia vanta) > In the grafic sysinstall configuration of the Xserver I > removed the Intel > card,and also removed the second monitor , yes it shows two > video cards and > two monitors . The monitors have a red check mark on them > like if something > is wrong with the monitos. > With the configuration of the video card . like I said I > revoded Intel card > and the monitor that shows conected to it. And I use the > nvidia with the > envidia drver that loads automaticaly . But doesn't work. I > use the vesa > driver too but it doesn't work ( I mean KDE loads OK but > when I move the > mouse .the pointer desapair or actually it goes to the upper > right corner of > the screen > but when I move the mouse againg ,windows appear and > desappear all cryzy and > I have to press Alt-Ctrl-Backspace to get out of KDE. > I also removed the mouse demon (I think it is-demon)With no > mouse KDE loads > the same way And I can close all the windows that load up > .but after I > closed all the windows I get stuck I don't know what to do . > I need the > mouse to get around in KDE. > > Patrick, you told me to use a shell command , but I don't > know anythig about > that ( I want to learn) > but I tryed I did: # cd /etc/rc.cof command not found > I did # cd /etc OK > I did # ls a bunch of > files shwed up but > not rc.conf > > Ok guys I hope this info will give you a better idea of my > problem . And > hopefully you will help me to fix it. > > > Thanks > > _________________________________________________________________ > Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. > http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 16:44:03 2003 From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:44:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [buug] Tracking down lockups? In-Reply-To: <20031215181113.GC824@wagner> Message-ID: <20031216004403.47101.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> Claude, Don't worry about the slowdown--its the built-in "moment of Zen". Use those extra seconds to "think outside the browser" and focus in on the true meaning of life. Bob --- Claude Rubinson wrote: > Hi all, > > My notebook's started experiencing "seemingly" > random lockups where, > every so often, X (keyboard and mouse) will freeze > for a few seconds. > I'm looking for suggestions on how to track down the > problem. A > review of the system logs doesn't reveal anything > unusual. Where else > should I be looking? Or is there something specific > that I should be > looking for that I might be missing? > > I'm not really sure when this started happening. A > couple of weeks > ago, perhaps. Unfortunately, in that time I've > installed a new patch > to gpm, a new module for my wireless card, and, of > course, a number of > package upgrades have come in from Debian. I do > seem to notice this > behavior more often when Mozilla-Firebird is running > but that may just > be my perception. > > Before I start disabling modules and daemons and > trying to track down > the cause by the process of elimination, I'm > wondering if anyone might > be able to provides some hints and/or techniques for > tracking down > such a problem? > > Thanks, > > Claude > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug ===== ----------------------------------------- Bob Read Exit Code Incorporated cell (510)-703-1634 unixjavabob at yahoo.com ----------------------------------------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From rubinson at email.arizona.edu Mon Dec 15 16:50:24 2003 From: rubinson at email.arizona.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:50:24 -0700 Subject: [buug] Tracking down lockups? In-Reply-To: <20031216004403.47101.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031215181113.GC824@wagner> <20031216004403.47101.qmail@web13806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20031216005024.GD824@wagner> On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 04:44:03PM -0800, Bob Read wrote: > Don't worry about the slowdown--its the built-in "moment of Zen". Hrm. I don't think it's working correctly. I always end up frustrated. Who can I submit a bug report to? Claude From mp at rawbw.com Tue Dec 16 09:57:22 2003 From: mp at rawbw.com (Michael Paoli) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:57:22 -0800 Subject: [buug] Debian 3.0r2 i386 Binary-1 & Knoppix CDs Message-ID: <1071597442.3fdf4782421a9@webmail.rawbw.com> LINUX (Debian/Knoppix) CDs If anyone's interested in these CDs: Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 r2 "Woody" - Official i386 Binary-1 CD KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19-EN I can have some copies available (modest quantities) on CD-RW media with jewel or slim-jewel cases for $2.00 USD each at the 2003-12-18 BUUG meeting. Dropping me a courtesy e-mail note expressing specific interest and desired quantity(/ies) preferably at least 4 hours prior to the meeting (meeting starts at 7pm, so that would be before 3pm) would help me in anticipating any specific demand. I may also still have some Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 r1 "Woody" - Official i386 Binary-1 CDs at that time, but I'll be phasing them out in favor of r2. Random notes/references: I'm not offering the full Debian CD set presently, just the first i386 CD (enough to get a fairly useful installation done, anyway). CD-RW - mileage/reliability/readability might vary depending on drive type (I'm not sure how well they work, particularly in ancient CD-ROM drives); CD-R? ... I haven't bought any CD-R media yet, ... you're going to want "Sarge" or something else on there after a while anyway, aren't you? :-) Oh, ... I also tend to write using overhead transparency ink on the top of the CD-RWs - this makes it very easy to wipe off (water soluble) to relabel ... but can also smear off easily with handling (but you only place your fingers on the edges and/or center hub hole anyway, right?). From jammer at weak.org Fri Dec 19 09:54:15 2003 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 09:54:15 -0800 Subject: [buug] [msurkan@windows.microsoft.com: posting to Linux mail list] Message-ID: <20031219175415.GA14513@weak.org> Hohohoho! Anyone interested in giving "the man" a piece of their mind? -Jon ----- Forwarded message from Michael Surkan ----- Subject: posting to Linux mail list Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:04:20 -0800 From: "Michael Surkan" To: I am a program manager in the Microsoft networking group, doing some research around how we can improve our operating systems. My goal is to help us identify capabilities, improvements, and features that Microsoft should be focusing on to help our customers over the next 5 years or so. I am particularly interested in hearing from Linux users, and get their input about what they feel should be priorities. I was wondering if you would mind if I posted a message on your Linux mailing list (buug at weak.org) asking for feedback? I want to ask for people to e-mail me directly if they would be interested in taking an on-line survey I have put together (sorry, I don't want to post the survey URL directly to the public). If you don't feel this is an appropriate use of your list, that's fine. Of course, I am always eager to hear your thoughts if you wanted to share them. :-) Thanks, Michael Surkan P.S. If it's ok for me to post to your distribution list, what is the best way I should do that? Is there an e-mail address you recommend I use? http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug ----- End forwarded message ----- From rubinson at email.arizona.edu Sat Dec 20 19:49:35 2003 From: rubinson at email.arizona.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:49:35 -0700 Subject: [buug] Tracking down lockups? In-Reply-To: <871xr6aqlz.fsf@newsguy.com> References: <20031215181113.GC824@wagner> <871xr6aqlz.fsf@newsguy.com> Message-ID: <20031221034935.GA14266@wagner> On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 10:22:00AM -0800, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > Claude> Hi all, My notebook's started experiencing "seemingly" random > Claude> lockups where, every so often, X (keyboard and mouse) will > Claude> freeze for a few seconds. > > I bet it's gpm. Try disabling it and reconfiguring X accordingly > (ie. switch to the real mouse device instead of /dev/gpminfo or whatever > the repeater pipe is). Well, after a few days of running without gpm, it looks like you're correct. (Which is a pain in the butt because it was the patched version of gpm that was permitting me to enable both the trackpoint and the trackpad simultaneously. Ahh well, having a profusion of pointing devices available would have just spoiled me anyway...) Thanks. Claude From john at jjdev.com Tue Dec 23 17:31:59 2003 From: john at jjdev.com (johnd) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:31:59 -0800 Subject: [buug] ls only to show directories Message-ID: <20031224013159.GA3877@stang.jjdev.com> I saw someone do a command to just show directories with a really short command only using ls... not using grep or awk anyone know how to do this? -- Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987) From PSoltani at iitcorporation.com Tue Dec 23 17:46:16 2003 From: PSoltani at iitcorporation.com (Patrick Soltani) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:46:16 -0800 Subject: [buug] ls only to show directories Message-ID: <38F77311620C9641A1D054FD37AE6580A33B3D@iitexch01.iitdomain.com> Try this: ls -ld */ Try "ls -d */" for even shorter names. The magic is "/" at the end of the command ;-). Regards, Patrick Soltani. > -----Original Message----- > From: buug-admin at weak.org [mailto:buug-admin at weak.org]On > Behalf Of johnd > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 5:32 PM > To: buug at weak.org > Subject: [buug] ls only to show directories > > > I saw someone do a command to just show directories with a > really short command > only using ls... > > not using grep or awk > > anyone know how to do this? > > > > -- > Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. > --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987) > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug >