From john at jjdev.com Wed Oct 1 12:53:17 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:53:17 -0700
Subject: [buug] squid over commercial proxy server
Message-ID: <20031001195317.GA20963@stang.jjdev.com>
Does anyone have any references to any articles that would help
me to convince the IT group where I work to go with squid over a commercial
proxy solution?
The only arguments I can come up with are cost and extensibility.
I can't really say squid will be more reliable or faster than something
else because I really have no experience with anything else.
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From brian at planetshwoop.com Wed Oct 1 13:33:10 2003
From: brian at planetshwoop.com (Brian Sobolak)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:33:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [buug] squid over commercial proxy server
In-Reply-To: <20031001195317.GA20963@stang.jjdev.com>
References: <20031001195317.GA20963@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID: <48659.63.73.213.5.1065040390.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
I'm not sure how much weight this carries, but having the source means you
can fix problems yourself, if you have the skills.
I know that my firm has very, very stringent security requirements. We
use squid. I'm sure other examples abound of commercial companies using
squid over closed-source solutions.
brian
johnd said:
> Does anyone have any references to any articles that would help
> me to convince the IT group where I work to go with squid over a
> commercial
> proxy solution?
>
> The only arguments I can come up with are cost and extensibility.
>
> I can't really say squid will be more reliable or faster than something
> else because I really have no experience with anything else.
>
>
>
> --
> Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>
>
--
Brian Sobolak
http://www.planetshwoop.com/
From john at jjdev.com Wed Oct 1 15:59:15 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:59:15 -0700
Subject: [buug] squid over commercial proxy server
In-Reply-To: <48659.63.73.213.5.1065040390.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
References: <20031001195317.GA20963@stang.jjdev.com> <48659.63.73.213.5.1065040390.squirrel@webmail.psys.org>
Message-ID: <20031001225915.GA21174@stang.jjdev.com>
Yea, that's part of what I meant by extensibility, and I think that it
carries a lot of weight.
On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 03:33:10PM -0500, Brian Sobolak wrote:
>
> I'm not sure how much weight this carries, but having the source means you
> can fix problems yourself, if you have the skills.
>
> I know that my firm has very, very stringent security requirements. We
> use squid. I'm sure other examples abound of commercial companies using
> squid over closed-source solutions.
>
> brian
>
> johnd said:
> > Does anyone have any references to any articles that would help
> > me to convince the IT group where I work to go with squid over a
> > commercial
> > proxy solution?
> >
> > The only arguments I can come up with are cost and extensibility.
> >
> > I can't really say squid will be more reliable or faster than something
> > else because I really have no experience with anything else.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> > --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Buug mailing list
> > Buug at weak.org
> > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Brian Sobolak
> http://www.planetshwoop.com/
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Wed Oct 1 17:40:05 2003
From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:40:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] squid over commercial proxy server
In-Reply-To: <20031001225915.GA21174@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID: <20031002004005.43009.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>
Here's one: all these viruses going around that
require rebooting windows boxes would not affect a
squid/linux install...your proxy should never go down,
and linux/squid gives you that reliability.
You could argue that squid is similar to apache from
managerial/admin standpoints. Which may help or hurt
depending on who you're talking to (for example, if
they are biased towards IIS).
If you end up buying a commercial proxy server, it
might be fun to covertly install squid and run a few
machines through it, do some head-to-head testing,
etc, etc.
It is quite common and useful for the "admins" to have
totally redundant networks, connections, proxies, etc,
etc to the ones used by "users". Once in a while,
these redundant systems save some manager's ass and
then they are extremely grateful.
Later,
Bob
--- johnd wrote:
> Yea, that's part of what I meant by extensibility,
> and I think that it
> carries a lot of weight.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 03:33:10PM -0500, Brian
> Sobolak wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure how much weight this carries, but
> having the source means you
> > can fix problems yourself, if you have the skills.
> >
> > I know that my firm has very, very stringent
> security requirements. We
> > use squid. I'm sure other examples abound of
> commercial companies using
> > squid over closed-source solutions.
> >
> > brian
> >
> > johnd said:
> > > Does anyone have any references to any articles
> that would help
> > > me to convince the IT group where I work to go
> with squid over a
> > > commercial
> > > proxy solution?
> > >
> > > The only arguments I can come up with are cost
> and extensibility.
> > >
> > > I can't really say squid will be more reliable
> or faster than something
> > > else because I really have no experience with
> anything else.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Those who do not understand Unix are condemned
> to reinvent it, poorly.
> > > --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November
> 1987)
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Buug mailing list
> > > Buug at weak.org
> > > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Brian Sobolak
> > http://www.planetshwoop.com/
>
> --
> Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to
> reinvent it, poorly.
> --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
=====
-----------------------------------------
Bob Read
Exit Code Incorporated
cell (510)-703-1634
unixjavabob at yahoo.com
-----------------------------------------
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
From panky92 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 2 07:32:37 2003
From: panky92 at yahoo.com (Pankaj Kumar)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 07:32:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] using contol characters to print continuous vertical lines etc on dumb terminals.
Message-ID: <20031002143237.19830.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com>
Hi,
In our college, we used to use control characters to make a square on our dumb
terminals, a full square with continuous lines. But i have forgotten the
characters to use to print continous (un broken horintal and vertical lines).
These characters can also be used to print various other characters like heart
etc.
I guess, you got to change the mode of the keyboard (through some command) and
then you get into a different and secret world of keyboard.
Kindly let me know if any of you guys understand my gibberish and you nod at it
:-). Anybody with more knowledge on this, pls mail me back.
Thanks,
Pankaj
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
From bayard at newsguy.com Thu Oct 2 10:46:14 2003
From: bayard at newsguy.com (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: 02 Oct 2003 10:46:14 -0700
Subject: [buug] using contol characters to print continuous vertical lines etc on dumb terminals.
In-Reply-To: <20031002143237.19830.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031002143237.19830.qmail@web20601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87k77nv8gp.fsf@newsguy.com>
Pankaj> Hi, In our college, we used to use control characters to make
Pankaj> a square on our dumb terminals, a full square with continuous
Pankaj> lines. But i have forgotten the characters to use to print
Pankaj> continous (un broken horintal and vertical lines). These
Pankaj> characters can also be used to print various other characters
Pankaj> like heart etc.
Pankaj> I guess, you got to change the mode of the keyboard (through
Pankaj> some command) and then you get into a different and secret
Pankaj> world of keyboard.
Get the O'Reilly book on termcap/terminfo and look up "Alternate
Character Sets".
--
Wer Schoenheit angeschaut mit Augen, hat dem Tode schon Anheim gegeben.
Von Platen.
From john at jjdev.com Thu Oct 2 17:44:08 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:44:08 -0700
Subject: [buug] html not used right
Message-ID: <20031003004408.GA23270@stang.jjdev.com>
It seems like more and more sights
(ie: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-bash.html)
have their html formatted so that the lines wont wrap.
When I first learned of html, I thought it was cool how the browser would
render it in a nice way. Now it seems like the browser's ability
to format the html so that you don't need to scroll right and left (if you
for what ever reason can't fit the width in your browser)
Even respectable sights seem to be doing this. Does anyone else feel
that this is lame and getting away from what html was designed for? I
used to think the guys who made the site didn't know what they were doing,
but know realize if they didn't know what they were doing it would be
rendering correctly. I see that they must go slightly out of there
way to make it not let the browser render the html.
just wondering if anyone else feels this way...
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From bayard at newsguy.com Thu Oct 2 18:11:03 2003
From: bayard at newsguy.com (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: 02 Oct 2003 18:11:03 -0700
Subject: [buug] html not used right
In-Reply-To: <20031003004408.GA23270@stang.jjdev.com>
References: <20031003004408.GA23270@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID: <87ad8jnn14.fsf@newsguy.com>
john> their html formatted so that the lines wont wrap.
john> just wondering if anyone else feels this way...
Of course, but HTML is going away (in favor of XML). In XML, they'll
have to define the DTD or schema to allow such tricks, so they'll by
definition know what they are doing.
--
Wer Schoenheit angeschaut mit Augen, hat dem Tode schon Anheim gegeben.
Von Platen.
From holiver at ieee-occs.org Mon Oct 6 00:09:21 2003
From: holiver at ieee-occs.org (James F. Lu - Publicity Chair)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 00:09:21 -0700
Subject: [buug] IEEE COSST Symposium
Message-ID: <024701c38bd8$c63b7cd0$0200a8c0@FLUFFY>
=======================================================
Coast Open Source Software Technology (COSST) Symposium
by
IEEE Computer Society - Orange County Chapter
=======================================================
WHAT: Applying Open Source Web Technologies COSST Symposium
WHEN: Saturday Oct. 18. 9am-6pm
WHERE: Jazz Semiconductor auditorium, Conexant Systems
Overview
--------
Our technical focus will be on using LAMP and Java open-source technologies.
The LAMP acronym is used to describe a typical open-source platform "stack"
for web applications:
* Linux operating system
* Apache web server
* MySQL/PostgreSQL databases
* Perl/PHP/Python languages
The symposium will open with foundation talks providing an overview of
open-source software and Linux as an open-source web application platform. A
series of application-tier talks will provide insight from the point of view
of widely used web application development languages: Perl, PHP, Python, and
Java. The final session will be an experience panel, which will provide an
opportunity for experience reports from actual development projects to
illustrate real-life problems and opportunities of OSS.
Target Audience
---------------
The target audience for the symposium is professional software engineers and
technical management. The audience is expected to have a diverse background
involving many operating systems and languages, with experience in software
system development for a variety of industrial, military and commercial
purposes. Attendees will include experienced professionals who have had
little or no exposure with open-source software and are looking for a good
introduction.
Symposium Goals
---------------
The goal of the symposium is to provide participants with a high-level,
technically sophisticated overview of major open source software (OSS)
technologies for
web application development. The symposium will provide information about
technology, resources, and supporting tools and processes of the OSS
community. The attendee will take away from the symposium a basic
understanding of the available technologies, information about how to
acquire and learn more about the various packages, and insight that will
enable them to make informed decisions about using and deploying specific
OSS technology in web applications.
The technical sessions will address:
* overview - what is it, what does it do, what problems does it solve
* key features - description of key features with short examples
* application examples - a few simple examples of doing something useful or
where/how to apply the technology
* applicability - when should you use it? [or when not!]
* resources - where to get it, who maintains it, where
to find help, documentation, assistance, mailing lists
Sessions
--------
9:00 Symposium Welcome
9:10 Introduction to open-source software
Walt Scacchi
Sr Research Scientist. UCI Institute of Software Research
10:00 Linux and OSS in Enterprise Development
Bill Hilf
Sr Architect and Linux Technical Leader. IBM
11:00 Web Application Development with Perl
Eric Hammond
Director of Technology. Rent.com
12:00 Lunch (Included for paid registrants)
1:OO Introduction to PHP and PEAR
Jesus Castagnetto
Co-author of "Professional PHP Programming" (Wrox Press)
2:00 Python-Powered Web Application Development
Chuck Esterbrook
Software Consultant and Creator of Webware for Python
3:00 Mid-afternoon break
3:15 Java OSS Web Technologies
Dave Ford
Java Consultant and Trainer. SmartSoft.
4:15 Experiences in OSS Web Application Development Panel
Facilitated by Prakash Malani
Principal Software Engineer. eBuilt.com
5:15 Closing
Closing remarks and symposium wrapup.
Cost and Registration
---------------------
Your registration fees will be discounted according to your IEEE and/or
Computer Society membership, as shown below:
Standard $75
IEEE Member $60
IEEE Student Member $30
Student $45
You may register online at
https://www.regonline.com/Checkin.asp?EventId=9769
If you are one of the first 75 paid registrants, you will get a chance to
win one of two Oreilly's "Linux Server CD Bookshelf" (retail value:
$119.95), or one of many other LAMP related Oreilly reference books.
COSST Volunteers will get in free. There may also be T-Shirts. To volunteer,
contact Sebastian: seguti at ics.uci.edu or call 1-949-509-9628
Direction
---------------------
Conexant Systems-Jazz Semiconductor
4321 Jamboree Road
Newport Beach, CA 92660
A map of the area may be found at
http://www.jazzsemi.com/docs/jazz-directions.pdf
For more information, please visit us at http://cosst.ieee-occs.org or call
Toll Free 1-888-548-1969
-------------- next part --------------
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From john at jjdev.com Tue Oct 7 13:32:48 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:32:48 -0700
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
Message-ID: <20031007203248.GA30409@stang.jjdev.com>
does anyone know of a cisco router emulator that will run on linux?
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Tue Oct 7 14:13:26 2003
From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:13:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
In-Reply-To: <20031007203248.GA30409@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID: <20031007211326.59423.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Do you mean an IOS emulator? or IOS for x86?
linux already has router capabilities built-in.
I think there's a company in China that will sell you
the emulator, ha ha!
Bob
--- johnd wrote:
> does anyone know of a cisco router emulator that
> will run on linux?
>
>
> --
> Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to
> reinvent it, poorly.
> --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
=====
-----------------------------------------
Bob Read
Exit Code Incorporated
cell (510)-703-1634
unixjavabob at yahoo.com
-----------------------------------------
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
From john at jjdev.com Tue Oct 7 14:56:51 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:56:51 -0700
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
In-Reply-To: <20031007211326.59423.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031007203248.GA30409@stang.jjdev.com> <20031007211326.59423.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031007215651.GA30607@stang.jjdev.com>
I'm not very familiar with IOS. I need this emulator for learning. I'm
not going to be building a router for the sake of routing. I just am trying
to learn how to use a cisco router. I'm taking a class that is preparing me
for the CCNA and CCNP certs. It's mostly hands on and we they bring hardware
for us to play with. I'd just like something I could do outside of class to
practice with.
They offer us some emulator software but it requires windows. I don't have
access to a windows box at my home so I need something that I can use on
linux or Mac OS X.
On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 02:13:26PM -0700, Bob Read wrote:
> Do you mean an IOS emulator? or IOS for x86?
> linux already has router capabilities built-in.
>
> I think there's a company in China that will sell you
> the emulator, ha ha!
>
> Bob
From unix at theunixman.com Tue Oct 7 15:11:17 2003
From: unix at theunixman.com (Evan Cofsky)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:11:17 +0000
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
In-Reply-To: <20031007211326.59423.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031007203248.GA30409@stang.jjdev.com> <20031007211326.59423.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031007221117.GY7728@valinor.arda.theunixman.com>
> I think there's a company in China that will sell you
> the emulator, ha ha!
Actually, the company was founded by a Japanese person, and is called
Zebra. It is available from http://zebra.org. I use it for a few
ISPs to do their BGP, and use a firewall script I wrote to do
firewalling and shaping. Zebra is pretty neat, and even has a "Cisco"
mode.
--
Evan Cofsky, President, CEO The UNIX Man
From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Tue Oct 7 15:32:51 2003
From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:32:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
In-Reply-To: <20031007221117.GY7728@valinor.arda.theunixman.com>
Message-ID: <20031007223251.33454.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
No, it's definitely a chinese company:
http://www.bm.com.np/bm/news/international.php?newsid=1053
only kidding though. What OS(s) do you run zebra on?
Bob R.
--- Evan Cofsky wrote:
> > I think there's a company in China that will sell
> you
> > the emulator, ha ha!
>
> Actually, the company was founded by a Japanese
> person, and is called
> Zebra. It is available from http://zebra.org. I
> use it for a few
> ISPs to do their BGP, and use a firewall script I
> wrote to do
> firewalling and shaping. Zebra is pretty neat, and
> even has a "Cisco"
> mode.
>
> --
> Evan Cofsky, President, CEO The UNIX Man
>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
=====
-----------------------------------------
Bob Read
Exit Code Incorporated
cell (510)-703-1634
unixjavabob at yahoo.com
-----------------------------------------
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Tue Oct 7 15:40:37 2003
From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:40:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
In-Reply-To: <20031007215651.GA30607@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID: <20031007224037.76576.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
I recommend buying your own routers, for cheap, on
craigslist or ebay, and playing with them in a lab at
home:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050958183&category=176
How else can you learn the wonderful world of IOS? I
gotta warn you, though, I'm always saying stuff like
this to my wife:
mo s pl ?
And then she says:
no I ha a he
--- johnd wrote:
> I'm not very familiar with IOS. I need this
> emulator for learning. I'm
> not going to be building a router for the sake of
> routing. I just am trying
> to learn how to use a cisco router. I'm taking a
> class that is preparing me
> for the CCNA and CCNP certs. It's mostly hands on
> and we they bring hardware
> for us to play with. I'd just like something I
> could do outside of class to
> practice with.
>
> They offer us some emulator software but it requires
> windows. I don't have
> access to a windows box at my home so I need
> something that I can use on
> linux or Mac OS X.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 02:13:26PM -0700, Bob Read
> wrote:
> > Do you mean an IOS emulator? or IOS for x86?
> > linux already has router capabilities built-in.
> >
> > I think there's a company in China that will sell
> you
> > the emulator, ha ha!
> >
> > Bob
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
=====
-----------------------------------------
Bob Read
Exit Code Incorporated
cell (510)-703-1634
unixjavabob at yahoo.com
-----------------------------------------
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
From unix at theunixman.com Tue Oct 7 16:02:59 2003
From: unix at theunixman.com (Evan Cofsky)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:02:59 +0000
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
In-Reply-To: <20031007223251.33454.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031007221117.GY7728@valinor.arda.theunixman.com> <20031007223251.33454.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031007230259.GA7728@valinor.arda.theunixman.com>
On 10/07 15:32, Bob Read wrote:
> No, it's definitely a chinese company:
>
> http://www.bm.com.np/bm/news/international.php?newsid=1053
Didn't know about them.
>
> only kidding though. What OS(s) do you run zebra on?
Currently on Linux, both Gentoo and Slackware, but with a custom
kernel build (2.6.0, of course). No sense in playing it safe.
--
Evan Cofsky, President, CEO The UNIX Man
From john at jjdev.com Tue Oct 7 16:02:34 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:02:34 -0700
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
In-Reply-To: <20031007224037.76576.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031007215651.GA30607@stang.jjdev.com> <20031007224037.76576.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031007230234.GB1238@stang.jjdev.com>
On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 03:40:37PM -0700, Bob Read wrote:
> I recommend buying your own routers, for cheap, on
> craigslist or ebay, and playing with them in a lab at
> home:
>
I didn't realize they were so cheap, I think I wil buy one. I want
make sure what ever kind I buy is the same kind I need to know about to pass
the CCNA/P tests.
From what I understood in class there are more than one type of router.
Once I figure out what I need, I will consider getting a used router.
I've already looked at zebra. I didn't realize it could be used to emulate
a cisco router.
From unix at theunixman.com Tue Oct 7 16:27:22 2003
From: unix at theunixman.com (Evan Cofsky)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:27:22 +0000
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
In-Reply-To: <20031007230234.GB1238@stang.jjdev.com>
References: <20031007215651.GA30607@stang.jjdev.com> <20031007224037.76576.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com> <20031007230234.GB1238@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID: <20031007232722.GC7728@valinor.arda.theunixman.com>
> I didn't realize they were so cheap, I think I wil buy one. I want
> make sure what ever kind I buy is the same kind I need to know about to pass
> the CCNA/P tests.
Different Cisco routers have different capabilities, as do different
IOS versions. And different IOS versions have different ways of doing
the same things.
> From what I understood in class there are more than one type of router.
There are many.
> Once I figure out what I need, I will consider getting a used router.
You can get cheap 1700s and 2500s which will do the standard VPN and
BGP.
> I've already looked at zebra. I didn't realize it could be used to emulate
> a cisco router.
It has an IOS compatibility mode which is useful for taking IOS
configurations and running them on Zebra routers. It's not an exact
duplicate, but it is enough to get the feel for how the IOS commands
work.
--
Evan Cofsky, President, CEO The UNIX Man
From evan at theunixman.com Tue Oct 7 15:59:06 2003
From: evan at theunixman.com (Evan Cofsky)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:59:06 +0000
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
In-Reply-To: <20031007223251.33454.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031007221117.GY7728@valinor.arda.theunixman.com> <20031007223251.33454.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031007225906.GZ7728@valinor.arda.theunixman.com>
On 10/07 15:32, Bob Read wrote:
> No, it's definitely a chinese company:
>
> http://www.bm.com.np/bm/news/international.php?newsid=1053
Didn't know about them.
>
> only kidding though. What OS(s) do you run zebra on?
Currently on Linux, both Gentoo and Slackware, but with a custom
kernel build (2.6.0, of course). No sense in playing it safe.
--
Evan Cofsky, President, CEO The UNIX Man
From psoltani at ultradns.com Wed Oct 8 09:37:56 2003
From: psoltani at ultradns.com (Patrick Soltani)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:37:56 -0700
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
Message-ID: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAFCF32F3@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com>
take a look at "zebra" which is not being actively developed anymore and it's branched off cousin which is being actively developed:
http://www.quagga.net/
It's a full routing daemon and uses almost identical syntax and mechanism as Cisco IOS command line.
Regards,
Patrick Soltani.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: johnd [mailto:john at jjdev.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 1:33 PM
>To: buug at weak.org
>Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
>
>
>does anyone know of a cisco router emulator that will run on linux?
>
>
>--
>Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
>
>_______________________________________________
>Buug mailing list
>Buug at weak.org
>http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>
From john at jjdev.com Wed Oct 8 10:14:03 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:14:03 -0700
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
In-Reply-To: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAFCF32F3@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com>
References: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAFCF32F3@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com>
Message-ID: <20031008171403.GA2405@stang.jjdev.com>
On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 09:37:56AM -0700, Patrick Soltani wrote:
> take a look at "zebra" which is not being actively developed anymore and it's branched off cousin which is being actively developed:
>
> http://www.quagga.net/
>
> It's a full routing daemon and uses almost identical syntax and mechanism as Cisco IOS command line.
the thing is I need identical syntax not amlmost identical because I am
trying to learn enough to pass some of the cisco certification tests
I'm thinking my best bet is going to be to get a used router to play
with
From psoltani at ultradns.com Wed Oct 8 10:44:09 2003
From: psoltani at ultradns.com (Patrick Soltani)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:44:09 -0700
Subject: [buug] cisco emulator
Message-ID: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAFDDF7B1@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com>
>
>the thing is I need identical syntax not amlmost identical because I am
>trying to learn enough to pass some of the cisco certification tests
>
>I'm thinking my best bet is going to be to get a used router to play
>with
>
Yeah, I agree a chipo 2500 router should do it, however, I promise you when you get your ccna/ccnp/etc and work on some gear in production, you'd be cussing IOS and cisco why it doesn't work the way you learned it from their books/gears/etc ;-).
Also note that software routers specially quagga is designed to be "very similar" to IOS and in fact, if you understand the IOS syntax, Quagga feels right at home. Specially when you add to the mix your OS skills, it's an unbeatable combination.
Not only you do routing, but also having tools available to you to debug/probe/troubleshoot almost any aspect of the routing.
Good luck!
Patrick Soltani.
From john at jjdev.com Sun Oct 12 18:54:36 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:54:36 -0700
Subject: [buug] mac os x serial program
Message-ID: <20031013015436.GA3619@stang.jjdev.com>
Anyone have any experience talking to a cisco router with a mac running os x?
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From wu at ecst.csuchico.edu Tue Oct 14 09:30:44 2003
From: wu at ecst.csuchico.edu (Allan J. Wu)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:30:44 -0700
Subject: [buug] RE: mac os x serial program
References: <20031013143817.19962.68644.Mailman@weak.org>
Message-ID: <000d01c39270$8491dc90$6401a8c0@sony>
Hi John, there is a program called "Terminal".
It's in folder Macintosh HD/Application/Utilities.
Once you start it, click its icon in your Dock, hold it down for a second, then choose "Keep in Dock". So that you easily start it via your Dock next time.
Hope this will help.
Allan
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:54:36 -0700
From: johnd
To: buug at weak.org
Subject: [buug] mac os x serial program
Anyone have any experience talking to a cisco router with a mac running os x?
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
--__--__--
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From john at jjdev.com Tue Oct 14 10:07:50 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:07:50 -0700
Subject: [buug] RE: mac os x serial program
In-Reply-To: <000d01c39270$8491dc90$6401a8c0@sony>
References: <20031013143817.19962.68644.Mailman@weak.org> <000d01c39270$8491dc90$6401a8c0@sony>
Message-ID: <20031014170750.GB6008@stang.jjdev.com>
I use terminal all the time. I need to set up a cisco router out of the box.
I can't yet telnet in so I need to connect through the cisco console with
a serial cable.
I've built minicom but can't get it to talk to my usb port. I don't see
a device file for the usb port.
On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 09:30:44AM -0700, Allan J. Wu wrote:
> Hi John, there is a program called "Terminal".
> It's in folder Macintosh HD/Application/Utilities.
> Once you start it, click its icon in your Dock, hold it down for a second, then choose "Keep in Dock". So that you easily start it via your Dock next time.
> Hope this will help.
>
> Allan
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:54:36 -0700
> From: johnd
> To: buug at weak.org
> Subject: [buug] mac os x serial program
>
> Anyone have any experience talking to a cisco router with a mac running os x?
>
>
> --
> Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
>
>
>
> --__--__--
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From john at jjdev.com Tue Oct 14 10:15:08 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:15:08 -0700
Subject: [buug] squid
Message-ID: <20031014171508.GC6008@stang.jjdev.com>
anyone familiar with squid? I am having a hard time understanding
how to configure it.
for one thing
the online docs say:
------------------------
Example 6-8. Filtering out unwanted destination sites
acl badDomains dstdomain adomain.example
acl badIPs dst 10.255.1.2
http_access deny badlist
http_access deny badIPs
http_access allow myNet
http_access deny all
------------------------
this seems to be a typo. badlist is undefined.
I changed badDomains to badlist and it works...just makes me wonder.
my goal is to have it so I have a list of domains that squid will proxy to
I guess I'm not understanding what a ACL is all about.
I was able to put this at the end of the default file:
acl myNet src 192.168.165.0
acl badlist dstdomain jjdev.com
acl badIPs dst 66.74.136.240
http_access deny badlist
http_access deny badIPs
http_access allow myNet
http_access deny all
it does the opposite of what I want kind of...It only filters domains listed.
I want to filter all and only allow listed domains.
I thought I could just flip it around to:
like allow badlist and badIPs (I'd probably change the name to good) and denyall
but it doesn't work...any ideas?
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From john at jjdev.com Tue Oct 14 12:26:07 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:26:07 -0700
Subject: [buug] squid
In-Reply-To:
References: <20031014171508.GC6008@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID: <20031014192607.GA6297@stang.jjdev.com>
thanks, I got it to do what I need
I had the acl upside down
On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 12:25:20PM -0700, James Howard wrote:
> John,
>
> The default squid.conf file is very well commented. Check out the tagged
> acl section for the conventions allowed for host specification. Note, IP's
> and networks need to specified with subnet mask (either long or short form
> will do). If a domain name is instead given, it will be resolved by
> reverse lookup.
>
> src and srcdomain refer to the client which makes the url request to the
> proxy server. dst and dstdomain refer to the url request itself.
>
> acl myNet src 192.168.165.0
> > fix this by adding subnet mask
> acl badlist dstdomain jjdev.com
> > needs leading dot assuming jjdev.com is many hosts
> acl badIPs dst 66.74.136.240
> > needs subnet mask
>
> acls can be additive...
>
> acl badguys dstdomain .doubleclick.com
> acl badguys dstdomain .fastclick.com
> acl badguys dst 192.168.1.0/24
>
> all specify what "badguys" matches.
>
> As for access...
>
> http_access deny badlist
> > request for url's specified in badlist will not be served, regardless
> of where they come from.
> http_access deny badIPs
> > same here.
> http_access allow myNet
> > allow requests from my net
> http_access deny all
> > deny everything that hasn't been matched...
>
> On that last note, realize that access works on a first match basis. Once
> a match is found, we exit the chain.
>
> -Jim
From john at jjdev.com Wed Oct 15 10:37:14 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:37:14 -0700
Subject: [buug] squid and virus detection
Message-ID: <20031015173714.GA7807@stang.jjdev.com>
Sorry if this is a repeat post, I'm not sure if I sent this and didn't
see it in my sent or deleted mails...
Anyone know of any tools to let squid scan for viruses? Management here
thinks that we need to protect our clients from viruses by having
squid check all outgoing stuff.
We use squid to let certain computers POST to computers outside our company.
I was told there is a protocol called ICAP that does something like this.
I was also told that symantec has a plug in or something for squid, but
didn't see anything like this when searching.
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From skip at ncseweb.org Wed Oct 15 14:46:08 2003
From: skip at ncseweb.org (Skip Evans)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:46:08 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 to XP
Message-ID: <3F8DC020.2080408@ncseweb.org>
Hey all,
I got a Redhat 9 install going, and so far things look good. I'm using
the OpenOffice stuff, and a Wine install to run a couple of MS apps
I need as well.
The only problem I'm having is when I try and write through Samba
to an XP machine we use as a central respository. Going through
some discussion threads of similar problems have not given me the
answer.
I have set up a user on the XP machine with the same user name
and password on the XP machine, and have an entry in fstab:
//server/c /mnt/XPserver smbfs username=skip,password=****
But I cannot write to the XP machine. I typically get an error message
that says the directory I am trying to write to is set to read only.
However, I have changed all the settings I can find in the XP's
control panel to allow full access to this user, but to no avail.
I can write to the XP machine if I sign into the Linux machine
as root, but this was just a test; obviously I don't want to log in as
root all the time. However, I guess it's a clue of sorts, but not one that
rings my bell.
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks!
--
Skip Evans
Network Project Director
National Center for Science Education
420 40th St, Suite 2
Oakland, CA 94609
510-601-7203 Ext. 308
510-601-7204 (fax)
800-290-6006
evans at ncseweb.org
http://www.ncseweb.org
NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list.
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From atporter at primate.net Wed Oct 15 15:06:21 2003
From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:06:21 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 to XP
In-Reply-To: <3F8DC020.2080408@ncseweb.org>
References: <3F8DC020.2080408@ncseweb.org>
Message-ID: <20031015220621.GF6926@primate.net>
On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 02:46:08PM -0700, Skip Evans wrote:
> //server/c /mnt/XPserver smbfs username=skip,password=****
>
> I can write to the XP machine if I sign into the Linux machine
> as root, but this was just a test; obviously I don't want to log in as
> root all the time. However, I guess it's a clue of sorts, but not one that
> rings my bell.
Try adding uid=(uid of user skip) after the password option.
From atporter at primate.net Wed Oct 15 15:07:21 2003
From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron T Porter)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:07:21 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 to XP
In-Reply-To: <20031015220621.GF6926@primate.net>
References: <3F8DC020.2080408@ncseweb.org> <20031015220621.GF6926@primate.net>
Message-ID: <20031015220721.GG6926@primate.net>
On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 03:06:21PM -0700, Aaron T Porter wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 02:46:08PM -0700, Skip Evans wrote:
> > //server/c /mnt/XPserver smbfs username=skip,password=****
> >
> > I can write to the XP machine if I sign into the Linux machine
> > as root, but this was just a test; obviously I don't want to log in as
> > root all the time. However, I guess it's a clue of sorts, but not one that
> > rings my bell.
>
> Try adding uid=(uid of user skip) after the password option.
Acutally, it looks like adding uid=skip should work too.
From dave at mikamyla.com Wed Oct 15 15:11:44 2003
From: dave at mikamyla.com (Dave Barry)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:11:44 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 to XP
In-Reply-To: <3F8DC020.2080408@ncseweb.org>
References: <3F8DC020.2080408@ncseweb.org>
Message-ID: <20031015221144.GA20063@mikamyla.com>
Quothe Skip Evans , on Wed, Oct 15, 2003:
> I have set up a user on the XP machine with the same user name
> and password on the XP machine, and have an entry in fstab:
>
> //server/c /mnt/XPserver smbfs username=skip,password=****
>
> But I cannot write to the XP machine. I typically get an error message
> that says the directory I am trying to write to is set to read only.
> However, I have changed all the settings I can find in the XP's
> control panel to allow full access to this user, but to no avail.
>
> I can write to the XP machine if I sign into the Linux machine
> as root, but this was just a test; obviously I don't want to log in as
> root all the time. However, I guess it's a clue of sorts, but not one that
> rings my bell.
>
It is a clue indeed, the directory may not have proper permissions for
the 'skip' user. Try mounting the share with uid=skip, or gid=staff
(i'm not sure what Redhat 9 uses for a standard user group)
You can verify this is the case by looking at the permissions on
/mnt/XPserver (on the Redhat machine), my guess is that is that the
directory is owned by root, and denies write access to others.
--
Fuck the constitution!
Are we part of the solution, or part of the pollution?
From jzitt at josephzitt.com Wed Oct 15 23:56:26 2003
From: jzitt at josephzitt.com (Joseph Zitt)
Date: 15 Oct 2003 23:56:26 -0700
Subject: [buug] Perl question
Message-ID: <1066287385.2048.14.camel@aleph.josephzitt.com>
Hi, all. I'm in the process of helping to put together a "lost pets" Web
site for a friend's daughter, adapting an open-source classified ads
package to do so.
One bit of coding is eluding me, since my Perl is rusty: The code
frequently deals with an array of information, loading and unloading it
with lines such as
($email,$itemcategory,$subject,$adtype,$picurl,$adindex,$descrip,$datenum) = split(/###/,$pre);
This list appears 39 times throughout the code, and, once I change it to
appropriate fields, I'd like to just deal with it once and refer to it
the other times, rather than having 39 unrelated places for it to break.
Is there a good way to do this?
I have a feeling it's a well-known issue with a "D'oh!"-level solution,
but it's been eluding me. Any clues?
From harpo at thebackrow.net Thu Oct 16 00:05:21 2003
From: harpo at thebackrow.net (Will Lowe)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:05:21 -0700
Subject: [buug] Perl question
In-Reply-To: <1066287385.2048.14.camel@aleph.josephzitt.com>
References: <1066287385.2048.14.camel@aleph.josephzitt.com>
Message-ID: <20031016070521.GA17076@thebackrow.net>
I'm not sure I understand your question.
> ($email,$itemcategory,$subject,$adtype,$picurl,$adindex,$descrip,$datenum) = split(/###/,$pre);
Something like
my @array = split(/###/, $pre);
Or do you want a function to repeat this line of code ... in which
case I suggest:
sub getdata( $ ) {
my $input = shift;
my @array = split(/###/, $input);
return @array;
}
Which would be used like this:
my @array = getdata($pre);
--
thanks,
Will
From brian at dessent.net Thu Oct 16 03:09:22 2003
From: brian at dessent.net (Brian Dessent)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:09:22 -0700
Subject: [buug] Perl question
References: <1066287385.2048.14.camel@aleph.josephzitt.com>
Message-ID: <3F8E6E52.9C3850F8@dessent.net>
Joseph Zitt wrote:
($email,$itemcategory,$subject,$adtype,$picurl,$adindex,$descrip,$datenum)
= split(/###/,$pre);
>
> This list appears 39 times throughout the code, and, once I change it to
> appropriate fields, I'd like to just deal with it once and refer to it
> the other times, rather than having 39 unrelated places for it to break.
> Is there a good way to do this?
Two ways come to mind, besides the obvious solution of using an array
and referencing fields by the index number (which is probably quite ugly
to maintain.)
The first would be something like:
use constant VARNAMES =>
'($email,$itemcategory,$subject,$adtype,$picurl,$adindex,$descrip,$datenum)';
# this line may be wrapped by email program
and then
eval VARNAMES . ' = split(/###/, $pre)';
The second (and probably better) way would be to just use an associative
array (hash):
sub parse_fields {
my $pre = shift;
my @fields = split(/###/, $pre);
my $href = {};
$href->{$_} = shift @fields foreach( qw{email itemcategory subject
adtype picurl adindex descrip datenum} );
return $href;
}
and then
my $foo = parse_fields($pre);
print "email address is $foo->{email}, subject is $foo->{subject}";
Brian
From jim at calico.homeip.net Tue Oct 14 12:25:20 2003
From: jim at calico.homeip.net (James Howard)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:25:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] squid
In-Reply-To: <20031014171508.GC6008@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID:
John,
The default squid.conf file is very well commented. Check out the tagged
acl section for the conventions allowed for host specification. Note, IP's
and networks need to specified with subnet mask (either long or short form
will do). If a domain name is instead given, it will be resolved by
reverse lookup.
src and srcdomain refer to the client which makes the url request to the
proxy server. dst and dstdomain refer to the url request itself.
acl myNet src 192.168.165.0
> fix this by adding subnet mask
acl badlist dstdomain jjdev.com
> needs leading dot assuming jjdev.com is many hosts
acl badIPs dst 66.74.136.240
> needs subnet mask
acls can be additive...
acl badguys dstdomain .doubleclick.com
acl badguys dstdomain .fastclick.com
acl badguys dst 192.168.1.0/24
all specify what "badguys" matches.
As for access...
http_access deny badlist
> request for url's specified in badlist will not be served, regardless
of where they come from.
http_access deny badIPs
> same here.
http_access allow myNet
> allow requests from my net
http_access deny all
> deny everything that hasn't been matched...
On that last note, realize that access works on a first match basis. Once
a match is found, we exit the chain.
-Jim
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, johnd wrote:
> anyone familiar with squid? I am having a hard time understanding
> how to configure it.
>
> for one thing
>
> the online docs say:
> ------------------------
> Example 6-8. Filtering out unwanted destination sites
>
> acl badDomains dstdomain adomain.example
> acl badIPs dst 10.255.1.2
> http_access deny badlist
> http_access deny badIPs
> http_access allow myNet
> http_access deny all
>
>
> ------------------------
>
> this seems to be a typo. badlist is undefined.
>
> I changed badDomains to badlist and it works...just makes me wonder.
>
>
> my goal is to have it so I have a list of domains that squid will proxy to
>
> I guess I'm not understanding what a ACL is all about.
>
> I was able to put this at the end of the default file:
>
> acl myNet src 192.168.165.0
> acl badlist dstdomain jjdev.com
> acl badIPs dst 66.74.136.240
> http_access deny badlist
> http_access deny badIPs
> http_access allow myNet
> http_access deny all
>
>
> it does the opposite of what I want kind of...It only filters domains listed.
>
> I want to filter all and only allow listed domains.
>
> I thought I could just flip it around to:
>
> like allow badlist and badIPs (I'd probably change the name to good) and denyall
>
> but it doesn't work...any ideas?
>
>
>
From jzitt at josephzitt.com Thu Oct 16 16:23:43 2003
From: jzitt at josephzitt.com (Joseph Zitt)
Date: 16 Oct 2003 16:23:43 -0700
Subject: [buug] Perl question
In-Reply-To: <3F8E6E52.9C3850F8@dessent.net>
References: <1066287385.2048.14.camel@aleph.josephzitt.com>
<3F8E6E52.9C3850F8@dessent.net>
Message-ID: <1066346623.1711.8.camel@aleph.josephzitt.com>
On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 03:09, Brian Dessent wrote:
> Joseph Zitt wrote:
>
> ($email,$itemcategory,$subject,$adtype,$picurl,$adindex,$descrip,$datenum)
> = split(/###/,$pre);
> >
> > This list appears 39 times throughout the code, and, once I change it to
> > appropriate fields, I'd like to just deal with it once and refer to it
> > the other times, rather than having 39 unrelated places for it to break.
> > Is there a good way to do this?
[snip]
> The second (and probably better) way would be to just use an associative
> array (hash):
>
> sub parse_fields {
> my $pre = shift;
> my @fields = split(/###/, $pre);
> my $href = {};
>
> $href->{$_} = shift @fields foreach( qw{email itemcategory subject
> adtype picurl adindex descrip datenum} );
>
> return $href;
> }
>
> and then
>
> my $foo = parse_fields($pre);
> print "email address is $foo->{email}, subject is $foo->{subject}";
Ah! This is just the thing I was looking for. Thanks! I had a feeling
that it would involve a hash, but that "$href->{$_}" syntax was eluding
me.
From skip at ncseweb.org Mon Oct 20 14:55:05 2003
From: skip at ncseweb.org (Skip Evans)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:55:05 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
Message-ID: <3F9459B9.2060108@ncseweb.org>
Hey all,
I've got a Redhat 9 install up and working good on a machine that
used to run Windows XP. Everything works very good, including
Wine running a few MS apps. But if I leave the machine alone for
say 5 or 10 minutes, I typically come back to, instead of the
screen saver, just a blank screen that won't wake up by keyboard
or mouse activity. I've tried to narrow it down to one or two
apps, maybe the MS stuff for example, but haven't really come up
with anything.
I've turned off all power management functions I can find in the
bios, and scoured Redhat discussion boards for anyone with a
similar problem, but haven't found anything yet.
Any ideas?
--
Skip Evans
Network Project Director
National Center for Science Education
420 40th St, Suite 2
Oakland, CA 94609
510-601-7203 Ext. 308
510-601-7204 (fax)
800-290-6006
evans at ncseweb.org
http://www.ncseweb.org
NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list.
Please note that this is NOT a discussion
list. You cannot post messages for members
to receive. We use this list to broadcast
news about the creationism/evolution issue
to interested parties.
To sign up send:
subscribe ncse your at email.address.here
to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
To unsubscribe send:
unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here
to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
From john at jjdev.com Mon Oct 20 15:30:13 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:30:13 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
In-Reply-To: <3F9459B9.2060108@ncseweb.org>
References: <3F9459B9.2060108@ncseweb.org>
Message-ID: <20031020223013.GA15831@stang.jjdev.com>
what about the power management stuff at the os level?
is that off?
can you still ssh in to it?
also, check if there is anyinfo in the /var/log/messages or whatever
the log file is called.
On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 02:55:05PM -0700, Skip Evans wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I've got a Redhat 9 install up and working good on a machine that
> used to run Windows XP. Everything works very good, including
> Wine running a few MS apps. But if I leave the machine alone for
> say 5 or 10 minutes, I typically come back to, instead of the
> screen saver, just a blank screen that won't wake up by keyboard
> or mouse activity. I've tried to narrow it down to one or two
> apps, maybe the MS stuff for example, but haven't really come up
> with anything.
>
> I've turned off all power management functions I can find in the
> bios, and scoured Redhat discussion boards for anyone with a
> similar problem, but haven't found anything yet.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> --
> Skip Evans
> Network Project Director
> National Center for Science Education
> 420 40th St, Suite 2
> Oakland, CA 94609
> 510-601-7203 Ext. 308
> 510-601-7204 (fax)
> 800-290-6006
> evans at ncseweb.org
> http://www.ncseweb.org
>
> NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list.
> Please note that this is NOT a discussion
> list. You cannot post messages for members
> to receive. We use this list to broadcast
> news about the creationism/evolution issue
> to interested parties.
>
> To sign up send:
> subscribe ncse your at email.address.here
> to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>
> To unsubscribe send:
> unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here
> to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From wfhoney at pacbell.net Mon Oct 20 15:55:28 2003
From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:55:28 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
In-Reply-To: <20031020223013.GA15831@stang.jjdev.com>
References: <3F9459B9.2060108@ncseweb.org> <20031020223013.GA15831@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID: <3F9467E0.3060006@pacbell.net>
I've had similar problems with rh9 until I turned off power management
at the bios level. Reboot and see if you have any power saver options set.
johnd wrote:
>what about the power management stuff at the os level?
>
>
>is that off?
>
>
>can you still ssh in to it?
>
>also, check if there is anyinfo in the /var/log/messages or whatever
>the log file is called.
>
>
>On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 02:55:05PM -0700, Skip Evans wrote:
>
>
>>Hey all,
>>
>>I've got a Redhat 9 install up and working good on a machine that
>>used to run Windows XP. Everything works very good, including
>>Wine running a few MS apps. But if I leave the machine alone for
>>say 5 or 10 minutes, I typically come back to, instead of the
>>screen saver, just a blank screen that won't wake up by keyboard
>>or mouse activity. I've tried to narrow it down to one or two
>>apps, maybe the MS stuff for example, but haven't really come up
>>with anything.
>>
>>I've turned off all power management functions I can find in the
>>bios, and scoured Redhat discussion boards for anyone with a
>>similar problem, but haven't found anything yet.
>>
>>Any ideas?
>>
>>--
>>Skip Evans
>>Network Project Director
>>National Center for Science Education
>>420 40th St, Suite 2
>>Oakland, CA 94609
>>510-601-7203 Ext. 308
>>510-601-7204 (fax)
>>800-290-6006
>>evans at ncseweb.org
>>http://www.ncseweb.org
>>
>>NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list.
>>Please note that this is NOT a discussion
>>list. You cannot post messages for members
>>to receive. We use this list to broadcast
>>news about the creationism/evolution issue
>>to interested parties.
>>
>>To sign up send:
>>subscribe ncse your at email.address.here
>>to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>>
>>To unsubscribe send:
>>unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here
>>to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Buug mailing list
>>Buug at weak.org
>>http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>>
>>
>
>
>
From wfhoney at pacbell.net Mon Oct 20 16:02:25 2003
From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:02:25 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
In-Reply-To: <3F9468B8.7080806@ncseweb.org>
References: <3F9459B9.2060108@ncseweb.org> <20031020223013.GA15831@stang.jjdev.com> <3F9467E0.3060006@pacbell.net> <3F9468B8.7080806@ncseweb.org>
Message-ID: <3F946981.3090304@pacbell.net>
Okay, one last ace in the hole...is the machine trying to access a
screen saver that is not present? I've seen other versions of RH fail
to handle this gracefully.
Skip Evans wrote:
>
>
> Bill Honeycutt wrote:
>
>> I've had similar problems with rh9 until I turned off power
>> management at the bios level. Reboot and see if you have any power
>> saver options set.
>
>
> I've turned off everything I can find relating to power management.
>
> Skip
>
>>
>
From wfhoney at pacbell.net Mon Oct 20 16:28:03 2003
From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:28:03 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
In-Reply-To: <3F946D04.3080603@ncseweb.org>
References: <3F9459B9.2060108@ncseweb.org> <20031020223013.GA15831@stang.jjdev.com> <3F9467E0.3060006@pacbell.net> <3F9468B8.7080806@ncseweb.org> <3F946981.3090304@pacbell.net> <3F946D04.3080603@ncseweb.org>
Message-ID: <3F946F83.4000701@pacbell.net>
John is right, though...if you can still ssh into the machine, or if you
can ctl+alt+backspace out of X, then you haven't hung the machine.
Missing programs could cause problems, though I don't think it would
crash the server. I usually limit my workstation to a single screen
saver which I know works. You could just blank the screen and save a
lot of fuss.
Skip Evans wrote:
>
>
> Bill Honeycutt wrote:
>
>> Okay, one last ace in the hole...is the machine trying to access a
>> screen saver that is not present? I've seen other versions of RH
>> fail to handle this gracefully.
>
>
> Interesting... not sure. It typically does find the screen savers,
> it's got
> bunches of different ones. I guess I can look into that. Do you know
> where they are kept? Perhaps it has a list of them and because one
> or a few are missing it craps out?
>
> Skip
>
From psoltani at ultradns.com Mon Oct 20 16:56:44 2003
From: psoltani at ultradns.com (Patrick Soltani)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:56:44 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
Message-ID: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAFDDF7CD@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com>
I saw good questions by other posters, however, wondered if you do CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE, would it kill the xwindow and go to console prompt or shell prompt?
If yes, you have xwindow/kde/application problem.
If no and it just dies and no keyboard combination will awaken it, then you'll likely having apm problem with power thingy.
One other thing, would it work without the screen saver?
Regards,
Patrick Soltani.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Skip Evans [mailto:skip at ncseweb.org]
>Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 2:55 PM
>To: buug at weak.org
>Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
>
>
>Hey all,
>
>I've got a Redhat 9 install up and working good on a machine that
>used to run Windows XP. Everything works very good, including
>Wine running a few MS apps. But if I leave the machine alone for
>say 5 or 10 minutes, I typically come back to, instead of the
>screen saver, just a blank screen that won't wake up by keyboard
>or mouse activity. I've tried to narrow it down to one or two
>apps, maybe the MS stuff for example, but haven't really come up
>with anything.
>
>I've turned off all power management functions I can find in the
>bios, and scoured Redhat discussion boards for anyone with a
>similar problem, but haven't found anything yet.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>--
>Skip Evans
>Network Project Director
>National Center for Science Education
>420 40th St, Suite 2
>Oakland, CA 94609
>510-601-7203 Ext. 308
>510-601-7204 (fax)
>800-290-6006
>evans at ncseweb.org
>http://www.ncseweb.org
>
>NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list.
>Please note that this is NOT a discussion
>list. You cannot post messages for members
>to receive. We use this list to broadcast
>news about the creationism/evolution issue
>to interested parties.
>
>To sign up send:
>subscribe ncse your at email.address.here
>to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>
>To unsubscribe send:
>unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here
>to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Buug mailing list
>Buug at weak.org
>http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>
From michael1cat at yahoo.com Mon Oct 20 21:40:55 2003
From: michael1cat at yahoo.com (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:40:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
Message-ID: <20031021044055.71112.qmail@web40810.mail.yahoo.com>
After making sure you've got the BIOS power saving stuff disabled (or
at least set to a sufficiently long timeout that you know that's not the
origin of the problem) then you need to look at the OS and installed
software. Check also for similar hardware and OS/software - even if
it's not an exact match, you may find a handy answer or major clue by
searching that way (and Google is your friend - and don't forget to
search Usenet also).
Next, when it goes "comatose", see if you can "wake it up". How one can
"wake up" the system, will vary greatly by hardware. These (particularly
also including laptops) include the following:
+ all keys/keycaps on the keyboard
+ mouse / pointing device
+ "power"/reset buttons/switches (not that some of these may be
multi-purpose, for example a "power" switch may work as sleep / wake up,
reset / power on / power off depending how things are set and how (or
how long) it is pressed
+ other buttons/switches (for example, closing lid/screen and re-opening
will reawaken some laptops)
+ etc.
Along with that, one can also check things such as network response,
wake-on-LAN response, magic keystroke (e.g. Control-Alt-[numeric
plus|numeric minus|Backspace], etc.), etc.
Also note all indicators on the system to try to better determine state
(is it really fully powered off, or is it in a state less than that?).
Look over all processes carefully - make sure you know what they all do.
Be sure to investigate suspicious/probable ones (apm/sleepd/power/...).
Also check all "rootly"(superuserly) stuff that may be launched by
cron/atd and friends (e.g. anacron), and be sure to check all relevant
places for such (some distributions take such actions as enhancing cron
so there's more than one place to look for a superuser cron job) and
follow such scripts/programs down until you're sure you know what they
do (or can be sure they have nothing to do with the problem you're
investigating).
I know I originally had similar problems with another LINUX distribution
on a laptop - through my investigations I found:
+ There were two different "services" (/processes) putting the system to
"sleep"
+ The software was capable of putting the system into at least two
distinct "sleep" modes
+ Of those two modes I encountered, one I could never recover usefully
from, and the other the system *mostly* recovered okay by simply closing
and reopening the display lid.
+ It turns out there were actually three distinct "sleep" modes
available (one of which wasn't available unless suitably configured),
and among hardware vendor and OS vendors (and possibly also BIOS author)
they tended to use at least somewhat inconsistent naming for each of the
three distinct "sleep" modes.
> Message-ID: <3F9459B9.2060108 at ncseweb.org>
> From: Skip Evans
> Reply-To: skip at ncseweb.org
> To: buug at weak.org
> Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
> Sender: buug-admin at weak.org
> List-Post:
> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:55:05 -0700
> Hey all,
> I've got a Redhat 9 install up and working good on a machine that
> used to run Windows XP. Everything works very good, including
> Wine running a few MS apps. But if I leave the machine alone for
> say 5 or 10 minutes, I typically come back to, instead of the
> screen saver, just a blank screen that won't wake up by keyboard
> or mouse activity. I've tried to narrow it down to one or two
> apps, maybe the MS stuff for example, but haven't really come up
> with anything.
> I've turned off all power management functions I can find in the
> bios, and scoured Redhat discussion boards for anyone with a
> similar problem, but haven't found anything yet.
> Any ideas?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
From john at jjdev.com Mon Oct 20 21:58:11 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (John de la Garza)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:58:11 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
In-Reply-To: <3F947404.8080602@ncseweb.org>
Message-ID: <2BADD1AD-0383-11D8-8FF0-000393CB11D4@jjdev.com>
did you do what I said? after that?
also, look towards the end of the system log file if you know what I
mean...
it maybe a file called /var/log/messages
there are other files in the /var/log directory you may find the error
in, too
you can view the file by using the less command
just type less /var/log/messages
you may need to be root
then go get to the end press G (that's just a capital G)
run levels can be read about be doing a google search on unix run levels
it may have a record of was caused the problem
On Monday, October 20, 2003, at 04:47 PM, Skip Evans wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I got this back:
>
> apmd??????????? 0:off?? 1:off?? 2:on??? 3:on??? 4:on??? 5:on??? 6:off
>
> What do "run levels" mean? Sorry, I'm quite a newbie at
> Unix admin stuff.
>
> What is the apmd? and apm?
>
> Skip
>
> johnd wrote:
>
> type this:
>
> chkconfig --list| grep apm
>
>
> and see if it shoes apmd as on or off for your run level (or for all
> the run levels)
>
> you can turn it off completely by doing
>
> chkconfig --level 12345 apmd off
>
>
> that will keep it from starting again...to turn it off now (if it is
> running)(
>
> type
>
> /etc/init.d/apmd stop
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 04:08:39PM -0700, Skip Evans wrote:
>
>
>
> johnd wrote:
>
>
>
> what about the power management stuff at the os level?
>
>
>
>
> At the OS level? Where would I find that?
>
>
>
> can you still ssh in to it?
>
>
>
> Haven't thought of that. Should have, though, because I guess
> I don't really know if the box is really dead or just off somewhere.
> Next time it happens I'll try that.
>
>
>
> also, check if there is anyinfo in the /var/log/messages or whatever
> the log file is called.
>
>
>
> Didn't see anything that jumped out at me.
>
> Skip
>
> --
> Skip Evans
> Network Project Director
> National Center for Science Education
> 420 40th St, Suite 2
> Oakland, CA 94609
> 510-601-7203 Ext. 308
> 510-601-7204 (fax)
> 800-290-6006
> evans at ncseweb.org
> http://www.ncseweb.org
>
> NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list.
> Please note that this is NOT a discussion
> list. You cannot post messages for members
> to receive. We use this list to broadcast
> news about the creationism/evolution issue
> to interested parties.
>
> To sign up send:
> subscribe ncse your at email.address.here
> to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>
> To unsubscribe send:
> unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here
> to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Skip Evans
> Network Project Director
> National Center for Science Education
> 420 40th St, Suite 2
> Oakland, CA 94609
> 510-601-7203 Ext. 308
> 510-601-7204 (fax)
> 800-290-6006
> evans at ncseweb.org
> http://www.ncseweb.org
>
> NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list.
> Please note that this is NOT a discussion
> list. You cannot post messages for members
> to receive. We use this list to broadcast
> news about the creationism/evolution issue
> to interested parties.
>
> To sign up send:
> subscribe ncse your at email.address.here
> to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>
> To unsubscribe send:
> unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here
> to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>
>
From john at jjdev.com Tue Oct 21 11:39:18 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:39:18 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
In-Reply-To: <3F9576A0.90707@ncseweb.org>
References: <2BADD1AD-0383-11D8-8FF0-000393CB11D4@jjdev.com> <3F955E87.4040409@ncseweb.org> <20031021171348.GA17017@stang.jjdev.com> <3F9576A0.90707@ncseweb.org>
Message-ID: <20031021183918.GB17198@stang.jjdev.com>
On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 11:10:40AM -0700, Skip Evans wrote:
> Hey John,
>
> I was downstairs for a little longer this time, came back and it was locked.
> I went to one of the BSD servers and tried to letnet to it, but it
> seemed completely
> dead.
>
> Someone else recommended trying to turn on the apm stuff. That sounds kind
> of weird, though, doesn't it?
>
weird? I thought that was what all of our corrispondense was about? turning
off apm
doesn't' seem weird.
I've seen the apm stuff mess up boxes before
try running the box in runlevel 1 then 2 and see if it is ok
from the command line (as root) type init 1
then let it sit for some time and see if it is stable...
if so, repeat with init 2
From john at jjdev.com Tue Oct 21 12:01:42 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:01:42 -0700
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
In-Reply-To: <3F95820B.1010303@ncseweb.org>
References: <2BADD1AD-0383-11D8-8FF0-000393CB11D4@jjdev.com> <3F955E87.4040409@ncseweb.org> <20031021171348.GA17017@stang.jjdev.com> <3F9576A0.90707@ncseweb.org> <20031021183918.GB17198@stang.jjdev.com> <3F95820B.1010303@ncseweb.org>
Message-ID: <20031021190142.GA17309@stang.jjdev.com>
different run levels run different amounts of things...
Like runlevel 1 is usually single user no networking
like I said earlier, do a search on unix runlevels on google and *read*
about it
On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 11:59:23AM -0700, Skip Evans wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >try running the box in runlevel 1 then 2 and see if it is ok
> >
> >
> Will do. But what exactly are run levels and what does it mean to run
> the box in a run level?
>
> Thanks,
> Skip
>
> >
> >
> >from the command line (as root) type init 1
> >
> >then let it sit for some time and see if it is stable...
> >
> >if so, repeat with init 2
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Skip Evans
> Network Project Director
> National Center for Science Education
> 420 40th St, Suite 2
> Oakland, CA 94609
> 510-601-7203 Ext. 308
> 510-601-7204 (fax)
> 800-290-6006
> evans at ncseweb.org
> http://www.ncseweb.org
>
> NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list.
> Please note that this is NOT a discussion
> list. You cannot post messages for members
> to receive. We use this list to broadcast
> news about the creationism/evolution issue
> to interested parties.
>
> To sign up send:
> subscribe ncse your at email.address.here
> to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>
> To unsubscribe send:
> unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here
> to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
>
>
>
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Tue Oct 21 17:33:22 2003
From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] Redhat 9 comatose problem
In-Reply-To: <20031021190142.GA17309@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID: <20031022003322.2972.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>
Hey Skip,
Run levels are a built-in way of grouping the
processes on a unix machine by "purpose". This
concept goes back to the original greybeards who wrote
unix. You take a machine to different run levels
using the "init" command.
In fact, every time you boot your machine, or issue
the "shutdown" command, you are taking it through the
run levels.
Run-levels have suffered some feature-creep over
the years...you really should grab a book and read
about it such as oreilly's "Essential System
Administration". There are some problems that are
only solvable by switching run levels (you will do it
eventually, so best to learn now).
Bob
--- johnd wrote:
> different run levels run different amounts of
> things...
>
> Like runlevel 1 is usually single user no networking
>
> like I said earlier, do a search on unix runlevels
> on google and *read*
> about it
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 11:59:23AM -0700, Skip Evans
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >try running the box in runlevel 1 then 2 and see
> if it is ok
> > >
> > >
> > Will do. But what exactly are run levels and what
> does it mean to run
> > the box in a run level?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Skip
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >from the command line (as root) type init 1
> > >
> > >then let it sit for some time and see if it is
> stable...
> > >
> > >if so, repeat with init 2
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Skip Evans
> > Network Project Director
> > National Center for Science Education
> > 420 40th St, Suite 2
> > Oakland, CA 94609
> > 510-601-7203 Ext. 308
> > 510-601-7204 (fax)
> > 800-290-6006
> > evans at ncseweb.org
> > http://www.ncseweb.org
> >
> > NCSE now has a one way broadcast news list.
> > Please note that this is NOT a discussion
> > list. You cannot post messages for members
> > to receive. We use this list to broadcast
> > news about the creationism/evolution issue
> > to interested parties.
> >
> > To sign up send:
> > subscribe ncse your at email.address.here
> > to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
> >
> > To unsubscribe send:
> > unsubscribe ncse your at email.address.here
> > to: majordomo at ncseweb2.org
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to
> reinvent it, poorly.
> --Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
=====
-----------------------------------------
Bob Read
Exit Code Incorporated
cell (510)-703-1634
unixjavabob at yahoo.com
-----------------------------------------
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
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From john at jjdev.com Wed Oct 22 11:25:12 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:25:12 -0700
Subject: [buug] gateway
Message-ID: <20031022182512.GA19203@stang.jjdev.com>
Is it ok to define two default gateways?
to me be name 'default gateway' implies one, but I have a box that
has a route to a other lan and needs a route to the internet
so I just added another default gateway and everything works great
just want to make sure this is not a problem
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From jammer at weak.org Wed Oct 22 11:50:21 2003
From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:50:21 -0700
Subject: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <20031022182512.GA19203@stang.jjdev.com>
References: <20031022182512.GA19203@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID: <20031022185021.GA6895@weak.org>
On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 11:25:12AM -0700, johnd wrote:
> Is it ok to define two default gateways?
>
> to me be name 'default gateway' implies one, but I have a box that
> has a route to a other lan and needs a route to the internet
>
> so I just added another default gateway and everything works great
>
> just want to make sure this is not a problem
While it may work, it doesn't really makes sense. Your default gateway
should be the one that is used to connect to networks that aren't
explicitly specified in your routing table.
So, in your routing table, you should have two entries, one specifying
the gateway for the local network, and a second specifying the default
route (the gateway to the Internet).
Take a look at:
http://kernelnewbies.org/documents/ipnetworking/linuxipnetworking.html
Skimming past the bits about the actual Linux implementation, and
focusing on the IP routing bits.
-Jon
From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Wed Oct 22 14:35:25 2003
From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:35:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <20031022185021.GA6895@weak.org>
Message-ID: <20031022213525.95099.qmail@web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
> While it may work, it doesn't really make sense.
As a nerd, I really appreciated this sentence. In
fact, I put it up on my wall. This would be a great
slogan on a BUUG t-shirt....from Jon himself, no
less!!
Bob R.
=====
-----------------------------------------
Bob Read
Exit Code Incorporated
cell (510)-703-1634
unixjavabob at yahoo.com
-----------------------------------------
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
From unixjavabob at yahoo.com Wed Oct 22 14:46:46 2003
From: unixjavabob at yahoo.com (Bob Read)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:46:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Haiku Re: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <20031022185021.GA6895@weak.org>
Message-ID: <20031022214646.55467.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Difficult concepts are best explained via 15th century
Japanese prose:
Two Default Gateways
Lookup finds only first match
Other route unused
--- Jon McClintock wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 11:25:12AM -0700, johnd
> wrote:
> > Is it ok to define two default gateways?
> >
> > to me be name 'default gateway' implies one, but I
> have a box that
> > has a route to a other lan and needs a route to
> the internet
> >
> > so I just added another default gateway and
> everything works great
> >
> > just want to make sure this is not a problem
>
> While it may work, it doesn't really makes sense.
> Your default gateway
> should be the one that is used to connect to
> networks that aren't
> explicitly specified in your routing table.
>
> So, in your routing table, you should have two
> entries, one specifying
> the gateway for the local network, and a second
> specifying the default
> route (the gateway to the Internet).
>
> Take a look at:
>
>
>
http://kernelnewbies.org/documents/ipnetworking/linuxipnetworking.html
>
> Skimming past the bits about the actual Linux
> implementation, and
> focusing on the IP routing bits.
>
> -Jon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
=====
-----------------------------------------
Bob Read
Exit Code Incorporated
cell (510)-703-1634
unixjavabob at yahoo.com
-----------------------------------------
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
From wfhoney at pacbell.net Wed Oct 22 15:22:11 2003
From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:22:11 -0700
Subject: Haiku Re: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <20031022214646.55467.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031022214646.55467.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F970313.3020805@pacbell.net>
Or, the 2-7-5 variant...
pausing
halfway down the list
first default gateway
Bob Read wrote:
>Difficult concepts are best explained via 15th century
>Japanese prose:
>
>Two Default Gateways
>Lookup finds only first match
>Other route unused
>
>
>
>--- Jon McClintock wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 11:25:12AM -0700, johnd
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Is it ok to define two default gateways?
>>>
>>>to me be name 'default gateway' implies one, but I
>>>
>>>
>>have a box that
>>
>>
>>>has a route to a other lan and needs a route to
>>>
>>>
>>the internet
>>
>>
>>>so I just added another default gateway and
>>>
>>>
>>everything works great
>>
>>
>>>just want to make sure this is not a problem
>>>
>>>
>>While it may work, it doesn't really makes sense.
>>Your default gateway
>>should be the one that is used to connect to
>>networks that aren't
>>explicitly specified in your routing table.
>>
>>So, in your routing table, you should have two
>>entries, one specifying
>>the gateway for the local network, and a second
>>specifying the default
>>route (the gateway to the Internet).
>>
>>Take a look at:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>http://kernelnewbies.org/documents/ipnetworking/linuxipnetworking.html
>
>
>>Skimming past the bits about the actual Linux
>>implementation, and
>>focusing on the IP routing bits.
>>
>>-Jon
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Buug mailing list
>>Buug at weak.org
>>http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>>
>>
>
>
>=====
>-----------------------------------------
>Bob Read
>Exit Code Incorporated
>cell (510)-703-1634
>unixjavabob at yahoo.com
>-----------------------------------------
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
>http://shopping.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>Buug mailing list
>Buug at weak.org
>http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>
>
>
From john at jjdev.com Wed Oct 22 16:19:36 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:19:36 -0700
Subject: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <20031022225932.GA13119@of.net>
References: <20031022182512.GA19203@stang.jjdev.com> <20031022225932.GA13119@of.net>
Message-ID: <20031022231936.GA909@stang.jjdev.com>
the purpose is:
there is a box in the far back end behind two firewalls...
it has a default gate way for access to places it needs to go to right now.
I have a box in the DMZ that will act as a gate way for the back end box to go
to a few outside places...
I just have the middle DMZ box with ip_forwarding on and to the back
end box I added a second default gate way so it can go to the outside web
through the middle box.
Seems like it makes sense works good...just wanted some input to see how
people 'normally' do this kind of thing.
On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 03:59:32PM -0700, Tony Godshall wrote:
> According to johnd,
> > Is it ok to define two default gateways?
> >
> > to me be name 'default gateway' implies one, but I have a box that
> > has a route to a other lan and needs a route to the internet
> >
> > so I just added another default gateway and everything works great
> >
> > just want to make sure this is not a problem
>
> If you have two interfaces out of your box, you might
> want to set up a sharing (higher bandwidth) or failover
> setup.
>
> For linux, check Documentation/networking/bonding.txt and
> the ifenslave config tool. According to packages.debian.org,
> ifenslave is a tool to ...
>
> : Attach and detach slave interfaces to a bonding device.
> :
> : This is a tool to attach and detach slave network interfaces
> : to a bonding device. A bonding device will act like a normal
> : Ethernet network device to the kernel, but will send out the
> : packets via the slave devices using a simple round-robin
> : scheduler. This allows for simple load-balancing, identical
> : to "channel bonding" or "trunking" techniques used in
> : switches.
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From bayard at newsguy.com Thu Oct 23 13:00:06 2003
From: bayard at newsguy.com (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: 23 Oct 2003 13:00:06 -0700
Subject: Haiku Re: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <20031022214646.55467.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20031022214646.55467.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87znfrd8s9.fsf@newsguy.com>
Bob> Two Default Gateways
Bob> Lookup finds only first match
Bob> Other route unused
Actually, I have some doubts about this. I think I recall from Stevens'
TCP/IP book that some implementations (BSD? Solaris?) choose one or the
other route in a round-robin fashion.
--
Wer Schoenheit angeschaut mit Augen, hat dem Tode schon Anheim gegeben.
Von Platen.
From jammer at weak.org Thu Oct 23 13:15:04 2003
From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:15:04 -0700
Subject: Haiku Re: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <87znfrd8s9.fsf@newsguy.com>
References: <20031022214646.55467.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com> <87znfrd8s9.fsf@newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20031023201504.GB21345@weak.org>
On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:00:06PM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> Bob> Two Default Gateways
> Bob> Lookup finds only first match
> Bob> Other route unused
>
> Actually, I have some doubts about this. I think I recall from Stevens'
> TCP/IP book that some implementations (BSD? Solaris?) choose one or the
> other route in a round-robin fashion.
Hmm. All I've got handy is TCP/IP Illustrated, Vol2, and I couldn't find
a conclusive answer in a few minute's looking. It seemed to imply that
having two default routes wasn't something that could happen (i.e.,
setting a default route wipes out any existing default route).
I'd be interested to see what the output of `route -n` is on your
system, John.
-Jon
From psoltani at ultradns.com Thu Oct 23 13:20:28 2003
From: psoltani at ultradns.com (Patrick Soltani)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:20:28 -0700
Subject: [buug] gateway
Message-ID: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAFDDF7D7@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com>
Hi,
Please post the "netstat -rn" if you think you have 2 default gateway on a single host on a single network with single subnet mask.
Very likely you have a static route, again "netstat -rn" will tell you exactly how the machine is working ;-).
TCP/IP 101 and the way gateway sees it:
the packet's destination address is "logically Ended" with the subnetmak to determine if the packet belongs to the local net so it won't touch it, or it doesn't belong to the local net and forwards it to its next hop/router that it thinks will have a route.
Making the machine "forwarder" means that it now will pass the packet received on one interface to the other interface which in effect makes it a simplified form of router.
Again to clarify what "works" for you and what is not possible by TCP/IP specs, just post the netstat -rn output and a "traceroute" to a machine outside of your network. We can tell you exactly how the machine is routing or not and what would be the problems with the setup if any ;-).
Regards,
Patrick Soltani.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: johnd [mailto:john at jjdev.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:20 PM
>To: buug at weak.org
>Subject: Re: [buug] gateway
>
>
>the purpose is:
>
>there is a box in the far back end behind two firewalls...
>
>it has a default gate way for access to places it needs to go
>to right now.
>
>I have a box in the DMZ that will act as a gate way for the
>back end box to go
>to a few outside places...
>
>I just have the middle DMZ box with ip_forwarding on and to the back
>end box I added a second default gate way so it can go to the
>outside web
>through the middle box.
>
>Seems like it makes sense works good...just wanted some input
>to see how
>people 'normally' do this kind of thing.
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 03:59:32PM -0700, Tony Godshall wrote:
>> According to johnd,
>> > Is it ok to define two default gateways?
>> >
>> > to me be name 'default gateway' implies one, but I have a box that
>> > has a route to a other lan and needs a route to the internet
>> >
>> > so I just added another default gateway and everything works great
>> >
>> > just want to make sure this is not a problem
>>
>> If you have two interfaces out of your box, you might
>> want to set up a sharing (higher bandwidth) or failover
>> setup.
>>
>> For linux, check Documentation/networking/bonding.txt and
>> the ifenslave config tool. According to packages.debian.org,
>> ifenslave is a tool to ...
>>
>> : Attach and detach slave interfaces to a bonding device.
>> :
>> : This is a tool to attach and detach slave network interfaces
>> : to a bonding device. A bonding device will act like a normal
>> : Ethernet network device to the kernel, but will send out the
>> : packets via the slave devices using a simple round-robin
>> : scheduler. This allows for simple load-balancing, identical
>> : to "channel bonding" or "trunking" techniques used in
>> : switches.
>
>--
>Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
>
>_______________________________________________
>Buug mailing list
>Buug at weak.org
>http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>
From john at jjdev.com Thu Oct 23 13:27:34 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:27:34 -0700
Subject: Haiku Re: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <87znfrd8s9.fsf@newsguy.com>
References: <20031022214646.55467.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com> <87znfrd8s9.fsf@newsguy.com>
Message-ID: <20031023202734.GA2231@stang.jjdev.com>
yea it absolutly doesn't work...
It *seemed* to work. But I realize if I ping somehitn I don't know about
it goes only to the first default gateway (since I made two...)
which makes sense
I've just set static routes to the outside places
On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:00:06PM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
>
> Bob> Two Default Gateways
> Bob> Lookup finds only first match
> Bob> Other route unused
>
> Actually, I have some doubts about this. I think I recall from Stevens'
> TCP/IP book that some implementations (BSD? Solaris?) choose one or the
> other route in a round-robin fashion.
>
> --
> Wer Schoenheit angeschaut mit Augen, hat dem Tode schon Anheim gegeben.
> Von Platen.
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From john at jjdev.com Thu Oct 23 13:29:09 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:29:09 -0700
Subject: Haiku Re: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <20031023201504.GB21345@weak.org>
References: <20031022214646.55467.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com> <87znfrd8s9.fsf@newsguy.com> <20031023201504.GB21345@weak.org>
Message-ID: <20031023202909.GA2244@stang.jjdev.com>
it takes it...
root at ldev:/home/john# route
Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface
localnet * 255.255.254.0 U 0 0 0 eth0
loopback * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo
default 192.168.164.63 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0
default 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0
default 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 1 0 0 eth0
it just tries the first one though
(i'm not saying this is the right thing to do, because it's not)
On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:15:04PM -0700, Jon McClintock wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:00:06PM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> > Bob> Two Default Gateways
> > Bob> Lookup finds only first match
> > Bob> Other route unused
> >
> > Actually, I have some doubts about this. I think I recall from Stevens'
> > TCP/IP book that some implementations (BSD? Solaris?) choose one or the
> > other route in a round-robin fashion.
>
> Hmm. All I've got handy is TCP/IP Illustrated, Vol2, and I couldn't find
> a conclusive answer in a few minute's looking. It seemed to imply that
> having two default routes wasn't something that could happen (i.e.,
> setting a default route wipes out any existing default route).
>
> I'd be interested to see what the output of `route -n` is on your
> system, John.
>
> -Jon
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From john at jjdev.com Thu Oct 23 13:29:54 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:29:54 -0700
Subject: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAFDDF7D7@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com>
References: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAFDDF7D7@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com>
Message-ID: <20031023202954.GB2244@stang.jjdev.com>
On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:20:28PM -0700, Patrick Soltani wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Please post the "netstat -rn" if you think you have 2 default gateway on a single host on a single network with single subnet mask.
> Very likely you have a static route, again "netstat -rn" will tell you exactly how the machine is working ;-).
root at ldev:/home/john# netstat -rn
Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
192.168.164.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.254.0 U 0 0 0 eth0
127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo
0.0.0.0 192.168.164.63 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0
0.0.0.0 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0
0.0.0.0 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0
root at ldev:/home/john#
>
> TCP/IP 101 and the way gateway sees it:
> the packet's destination address is "logically Ended" with the subnetmak to determine if the packet belongs to the local net so it won't touch it, or it doesn't belong to the local net and forwards it to its next hop/router that it thinks will have a route.
>
> Making the machine "forwarder" means that it now will pass the packet received on one interface to the other interface which in effect makes it a simplified form of router.
>
> Again to clarify what "works" for you and what is not possible by TCP/IP specs, just post the netstat -rn output and a "traceroute" to a machine outside of your network. We can tell you exactly how the machine is routing or not and what would be the problems with the setup if any ;-).
>
> Regards,
> Patrick Soltani.
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: johnd [mailto:john at jjdev.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:20 PM
> >To: buug at weak.org
> >Subject: Re: [buug] gateway
> >
> >
> >the purpose is:
> >
> >there is a box in the far back end behind two firewalls...
> >
> >it has a default gate way for access to places it needs to go
> >to right now.
> >
> >I have a box in the DMZ that will act as a gate way for the
> >back end box to go
> >to a few outside places...
> >
> >I just have the middle DMZ box with ip_forwarding on and to the back
> >end box I added a second default gate way so it can go to the
> >outside web
> >through the middle box.
> >
> >Seems like it makes sense works good...just wanted some input
> >to see how
> >people 'normally' do this kind of thing.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 03:59:32PM -0700, Tony Godshall wrote:
> >> According to johnd,
> >> > Is it ok to define two default gateways?
> >> >
> >> > to me be name 'default gateway' implies one, but I have a box that
> >> > has a route to a other lan and needs a route to the internet
> >> >
> >> > so I just added another default gateway and everything works great
> >> >
> >> > just want to make sure this is not a problem
> >>
> >> If you have two interfaces out of your box, you might
> >> want to set up a sharing (higher bandwidth) or failover
> >> setup.
> >>
> >> For linux, check Documentation/networking/bonding.txt and
> >> the ifenslave config tool. According to packages.debian.org,
> >> ifenslave is a tool to ...
> >>
> >> : Attach and detach slave interfaces to a bonding device.
> >> :
> >> : This is a tool to attach and detach slave network interfaces
> >> : to a bonding device. A bonding device will act like a normal
> >> : Ethernet network device to the kernel, but will send out the
> >> : packets via the slave devices using a simple round-robin
> >> : scheduler. This allows for simple load-balancing, identical
> >> : to "channel bonding" or "trunking" techniques used in
> >> : switches.
> >
> >--
> >Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> >--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Buug mailing list
> >Buug at weak.org
> >http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
> >
--
Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
From jammer at weak.org Thu Oct 23 13:41:42 2003
From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:41:42 -0700
Subject: Haiku Re: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <20031023202909.GA2244@stang.jjdev.com>
References: <20031022214646.55467.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com> <87znfrd8s9.fsf@newsguy.com> <20031023201504.GB21345@weak.org> <20031023202909.GA2244@stang.jjdev.com>
Message-ID: <20031023204142.GC21345@weak.org>
On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:29:09PM -0700, johnd wrote:
> it takes it...
>
>
> root at ldev:/home/john# route
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface
> localnet * 255.255.254.0 U 0 0 0 eth0
> loopback * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo
> default 192.168.164.63 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0
> default 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0
> default 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 1 0 0 eth0
Ok. So 192.168.164.63 and 192.168.164.251 are two seperate routers,
right? And one connects to the Internet, and the other connects to an
internal LAN, correct?
What you want to do is have the default route point to the
Internet-connected gateway. Then add a second route, through the other
gateway, with the LAN's network as the destination.
Or, translated:
# route add default gw 192.168.164.XXX
# route add w.x.y.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.164.YYY
Where XXX is the Internet connected gateway, and YYY is the local
gateway, and w.x.y.0 is the network address of the internal network.
-Jon
From john at jjdev.com Thu Oct 23 13:55:47 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:55:47 -0700
Subject: Haiku Re: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <20031023204142.GC21345@weak.org>
References: <20031022214646.55467.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com> <87znfrd8s9.fsf@newsguy.com> <20031023201504.GB21345@weak.org> <20031023202909.GA2244@stang.jjdev.com> <20031023204142.GC21345@weak.org>
Message-ID: <20031023205547.GA2369@stang.jjdev.com>
On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:41:42PM -0700, Jon McClintock wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:29:09PM -0700, johnd wrote:
> > it takes it...
> >
> >
> > root at ldev:/home/john# route
> > Kernel IP routing table
> > Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface
> > localnet * 255.255.254.0 U 0 0 0 eth0
> > loopback * 255.0.0.0 U 0 0 0 lo
> > default 192.168.164.63 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0
> > default 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 eth0
> > default 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 1 0 0 eth0
>
> Ok. So 192.168.164.63 and 192.168.164.251 are two seperate routers,
> right? And one connects to the Internet, and the other connects to an
> internal LAN, correct?
>
> What you want to do is have the default route point to the
> Internet-connected gateway. Then add a second route, through the other
> gateway, with the LAN's network as the destination.
what I want to do would depend
in my case I'll leave the default route to be where it is (to another lan)
and add a static route to the one place I need to go on the web.
The box doesn't need general internet access, it just needs to go to one place
for now and in the future it will need to go to more indivdual places.
From psoltani at ultradns.com Thu Oct 23 14:23:53 2003
From: psoltani at ultradns.com (Patrick Soltani)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:23:53 -0700
Subject: [buug] gateway
Message-ID: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAFDDF7D8@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com>
Ok,
you have linux box and linux DOES allow multiple interfaces each with a default gateway which is not System V and is really Linux centric. BSD and Solaris do not allow this for a good reason. The only other machine I have seen this is on, very logn long time ago, is irix.
Now if you have a single nic in the Linux box, then the behavior is "undefined" or at least short of looking at the source code is not clear. My take is that it will "round robin" the default gateway.
Traceroute will cast some more light on this and will expose more issues ;-).
Regards,
Patrick Soltani.
P.S.
"Logically Ended" meant to be "Logically ANDed", somehow my spell checker thinks it's smart than I :-(.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: johnd [mailto:john at jjdev.com]
>Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 1:30 PM
>To: Patrick Soltani
>Cc: buug at weak.org
>Subject: Re: [buug] gateway
>
>
>
>On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:20:28PM -0700, Patrick Soltani wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Please post the "netstat -rn" if you think you have 2
>default gateway on a single host on a single network with
>single subnet mask.
>> Very likely you have a static route, again "netstat -rn"
>will tell you exactly how the machine is working ;-).
>
>root at ldev:/home/john# netstat -rn
>Kernel IP routing table
>Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS
>Window irtt Iface
>192.168.164.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.254.0 U 0 0
> 0 eth0
>127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0
> 0 lo
>0.0.0.0 192.168.164.63 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0
> 0 eth0
>0.0.0.0 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0
> 0 eth0
>0.0.0.0 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0
> 0 eth0
>root at ldev:/home/john#
>
>>
>> TCP/IP 101 and the way gateway sees it:
>> the packet's destination address is "logically Ended" with
>the subnetmak to determine if the packet belongs to the local
>net so it won't touch it, or it doesn't belong to the local
>net and forwards it to its next hop/router that it thinks will
>have a route.
>>
>> Making the machine "forwarder" means that it now will pass
>the packet received on one interface to the other interface
>which in effect makes it a simplified form of router.
>>
>> Again to clarify what "works" for you and what is not
>possible by TCP/IP specs, just post the netstat -rn output and
>a "traceroute" to a machine outside of your network. We can
>tell you exactly how the machine is routing or not and what
>would be the problems with the setup if any ;-).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Patrick Soltani.
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: johnd [mailto:john at jjdev.com]
>> >Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:20 PM
>> >To: buug at weak.org
>> >Subject: Re: [buug] gateway
>> >
>> >
>> >the purpose is:
>> >
>> >there is a box in the far back end behind two firewalls...
>> >
>> >it has a default gate way for access to places it needs to go
>> >to right now.
>> >
>> >I have a box in the DMZ that will act as a gate way for the
>> >back end box to go
>> >to a few outside places...
>> >
>> >I just have the middle DMZ box with ip_forwarding on and to the back
>> >end box I added a second default gate way so it can go to the
>> >outside web
>> >through the middle box.
>> >
>> >Seems like it makes sense works good...just wanted some input
>> >to see how
>> >people 'normally' do this kind of thing.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 03:59:32PM -0700, Tony Godshall wrote:
>> >> According to johnd,
>> >> > Is it ok to define two default gateways?
>> >> >
>> >> > to me be name 'default gateway' implies one, but I have
>a box that
>> >> > has a route to a other lan and needs a route to the internet
>> >> >
>> >> > so I just added another default gateway and everything
>works great
>> >> >
>> >> > just want to make sure this is not a problem
>> >>
>> >> If you have two interfaces out of your box, you might
>> >> want to set up a sharing (higher bandwidth) or failover
>> >> setup.
>> >>
>> >> For linux, check Documentation/networking/bonding.txt and
>> >> the ifenslave config tool. According to packages.debian.org,
>> >> ifenslave is a tool to ...
>> >>
>> >> : Attach and detach slave interfaces to a bonding device.
>> >> :
>> >> : This is a tool to attach and detach slave network interfaces
>> >> : to a bonding device. A bonding device will act like a normal
>> >> : Ethernet network device to the kernel, but will send out the
>> >> : packets via the slave devices using a simple round-robin
>> >> : scheduler. This allows for simple load-balancing, identical
>> >> : to "channel bonding" or "trunking" techniques used in
>> >> : switches.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent
>it, poorly.
>> >--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Buug mailing list
>> >Buug at weak.org
>> >http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>> >
>
>--
>Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
>--Henry Spencer (Usenet signature, November 1987)
>
>
From john at jjdev.com Thu Oct 23 15:19:45 2003
From: john at jjdev.com (johnd)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:19:45 -0700
Subject: [buug] gateway
In-Reply-To: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAFDDF7D8@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com>
References: <3DBB075EEB95944492E127F2B9A96FAFDDF7D8@ultra-exchange.ultradns.com>
Message-ID: <20031023221945.GA2461@stang.jjdev.com>
On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 02:23:53PM -0700, Patrick Soltani wrote:
> Ok,
> you have linux box and linux DOES allow multiple interfaces each with a default gateway which is not System V and is really Linux centric. BSD and Solaris do not allow this for a good reason. The only other machine I have seen this is on, very logn long time ago, is irix.
>
> Now if you have a single nic in the Linux box, then the behavior is "undefined" or at least short of looking at the source code is not clear. My take is that it will "round robin" the default gateway.
>
> Traceroute will cast some more light on this and will expose more issues ;-).
>
> Regards,
> Patrick Soltani.
>
> P.S.
> "Logically Ended" meant to be "Logically ANDed", somehow my spell checker thinks it's smart than I :-(.
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: johnd [mailto:john at jjdev.com]
> >Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 1:30 PM
> >To: Patrick Soltani
> >Cc: buug at weak.org
> >Subject: Re: [buug] gateway
> >
> >
> >
> >On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 01:20:28PM -0700, Patrick Soltani wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Please post the "netstat -rn" if you think you have 2
> >default gateway on a single host on a single network with
> >single subnet mask.
> >> Very likely you have a static route, again "netstat -rn"
> >will tell you exactly how the machine is working ;-).
> >
> >root at ldev:/home/john# netstat -rn
> >Kernel IP routing table
> >Destination Gateway Genmask Flags MSS
> >Window irtt Iface
> >192.168.164.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.254.0 U 0 0
> > 0 eth0
> >127.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.0.0.0 U 0 0
> > 0 lo
> >0.0.0.0 192.168.164.63 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0
> > 0 eth0
> >0.0.0.0 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0
> > 0 eth0
> >0.0.0.0 192.168.164.251 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0
> > 0 eth0
> >root at ldev:/home/john#
> >
> >>
> >> TCP/IP 101 and the way gateway sees it:
> >> the packet's destination address is "logically Ended" with
> >the subnetmak to determine if the packet belongs to the local
> >net so it won't touch it, or it doesn't belong to the local
> >net and forwards it to its next hop/router that it thinks will
> >have a route.
> >>
> >> Making the machine "forwarder" means that it now will pass
> >the packet received on one interface to the other interface
> >which in effect makes it a simplified form of router.
> >>
> >> Again to clarify what "works" for you and what is not
> >possible by TCP/IP specs, just post the netstat -rn output and
> >a "traceroute" to a machine outside of your network. We can
> >tell you exactly how the machine is routing or not and what
> >would be the problems with the setup if any ;-).
no need to find more issues...it was a bad idea from the get go...