From mp at rawbw.com Tue Jun 1 20:54:34 2004 From: mp at rawbw.com (Michael Paoli) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 20:54:34 -0700 Subject: [buug] June 2004 BUUG meeting dates (3rd and 17th, not 4th and 18th) Message-ID: <1086148474.40bd4f7aa2f9a@webmail.rawbw.com> Okay, so the "Contact Us" link: http://www.weak.org/buug/mail.html also fails on the "Send Message" button, anyway: June 2004 BUUG meeting dates http://www.buug.org/ On http://www.buug.org/ Probaby want to correct the June 2004 meeting dates to the 1st and 3rd Thursday - should be 3rd and 17th, not 4th and 18th. JUNE 2004 4 (Thurs.): Au Coquelet , 7-9pm 18 (Thurs.): Au Coquelet , 7-9pm June 2004 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 From mp at rawbw.com Wed Jun 9 07:21:10 2004 From: mp at rawbw.com (Michael Paoli) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 07:21:10 -0700 Subject: [buug] RE: I/O redirection Message-ID: <1086790869.40c71cd6003a1@webmail.rawbw.com> Anyway, last BUUG meeting, question was brought up about I/O redirection. I thought I had something where I'd covered this before. Anyway, with a wee edit of command/argument(s) and dropping out some names/e-mail addresses, ... here's item from fairly recently where I addressed a bit of that (it does addresses fair bit of what tends to be a fairly reccurrent class of question(s) / area(s) of confusion). Actually, where I mention: " The command could also be written: 0/dev/console 2>&1 command [argument ...] among other possibilities, and still be equivalent. " That can be rearranged fairly arbitrarily, specifically, each of these components: 0/dev/console 2>&1 command [argument ...] can be rearranged in any order, as long as 2>&1 occurs subsequent to 1>/dev/console Also, < defaults to 0< and > defaults to 1>, so the 0 and 1 immediately before < and > respectively, can be dropped. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paoli, Michael > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 6:14 PM > Subject: RE: Are These Equivalent? > > Yes, they're equivalent. > > I/O redirection is essentially processed left to right (and prior to > command execution), > > Here we have command and arguments: command [argument ...] > And then I/O redirection: > A) > /dev/console 2>&1 < /dev/console > B) < /dev/console > /dev/console 2>&1 > In A, first we redirect (default file descriptor (fd) 1 (stdout) for >, > since > isn't immediately preceded by a digit) to /dev/console (or more > specifically, open /dev/console for writing with truncation, and use > copy/assign that for fd 1), > then (2>&1) we copy file descriptor 1 (which we previously set for > /dev/console) to file descriptor 2 (stderr), so /dev/console now also > becomes stderr, and then (< /dev/console) we open /dev/console for reading > and use it for fd 0 (fd 0 (stdin) is default for < if not immediately > preceded by a digit). So we end up with /dev/console for stdin, stdout, > and stderr, and opened for write/truncation > > In B, we redirect fd 0 from /dev/console, redirect fd 1 to /dev/console, > and copy fd 1 to fd 2, so the net result is the same (/dev/console used > for all three, stdout/stderr /dev/console opened for write/truncated, and > stdin /dev/console for read) > > The command could also be written: > 0/dev/console 2>&1 command [argument ...] > among other possibilities, and still be equivalent. > > Note, however, that typically these are not equivalent: > X) 2>&1 >/dev/console > Y) >/dev/console 2>&1 > > Y results in fd 1 and fd 2 using /dev/console, > X, however results in fd 1 using /dev/console, but fd 2 ends up using > whatever fd 1 was before the ">/dev/console" I/O redirection (so stderr > may not necessarily at all end up written to /dev/console). > > A sequence like: > 1>&2 echo "$0: failure reason/condition/program location, aborting"; exit > 1 > may be relatively common - echo by default writes to stdout, however by > using I/O redirection to copy fd 2 (stderr) to fd 1 (stdout) before the > echo command is executed, echo ends up effectively writing to stderr (echo > still thinks it's writing stdout, but prior to the echo, we made stdout go > the same place that stderr would go). > > > > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:25 PM > To: Paoli, Michael > Subject: Are These Equivalent? > > Hi, Michael-- > > Another quick (I hope) question: Do these mean the same thing? > command [argument ...] > /dev/console 2>&1 < /dev/console command [argument ...] < /dev/console > /dev/console 2>&1 > Thanks, ----- End forwarded message ----- From tim at smallschools.org Wed Jun 9 10:48:06 2004 From: tim at smallschools.org (Tim Mansfield) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 10:48:06 -0700 Subject: [buug] Beacon School Message-ID: <0af401c44e49$ebabf1f0$6401a8c0@DG79CM41> Hi, I am going to be the technology teacher at Beacon School, a small, personalized, progressive school in Oakland. http://www.beaconschools.org/home.htm It's not a public school, but it's not just a bunch of rich kids; the school founder Thelma Farley makes a real effort to get a truly diverse bunch of kids in there (many on scholarship). So, there's a computer lab there with its own DSL line and fixed IP address. The lab contains 10 iMacs, 9 relatively new Dell PC's, and 1 larger generic PC being used as a file server (it's running Windows 2000 Server). The school wants to shunt the iMacs off to the side as a multimedia lab, and get 10 more PC's to replace them so the lab (i.e., the client OS's the kids are learning and using) are unified. They don't have much money, so are looking for creative ways to accomplish this. Assuming we can get the necessary number of PC's (10 more), I'm willing to consider converting the whole lab to Linux, clients and server(s). Even if we don't convert everything, I'd like to add a web server running Linux to the mix. I have an extra PC I'll donate for this purpose. If anyone in the group has suggestions or help to offer, please let me know. Thanks-- --Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bferrell at baywinds.org Wed Jun 9 11:53:48 2004 From: bferrell at baywinds.org (bferrell at baywinds.org) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:53:48 -0700 Subject: [buug] Beacon School Message-ID: <1086807228.12980@baywinds.org> Tim, You might want to check out Alameda County property and Salvage in San Leandro next to Fairmont Hospital. That's where Alameda county disposes of just about everything. A couple of years ago I picked up a pair of complete Sun workstations for just a bit over $200. "Tim Mansfield" wrote .. > Hi, > > I am going to be the technology teacher at Beacon School, a small, personalized, > progressive school in Oakland. > http://www.beaconschools.org/home.htm > > It's not a public school, but it's not just a bunch of rich kids; the school > founder Thelma Farley makes a real effort to get a truly diverse bunch > of kids in there (many on scholarship). > > So, there's a computer lab there with its own DSL line and fixed IP address. > The lab contains 10 iMacs, 9 relatively new Dell PC's, and 1 larger generic > PC being used as a file server (it's running Windows 2000 Server). > > The school wants to shunt the iMacs off to the side as a multimedia lab, > and get 10 more PC's to replace them so the lab (i.e., the client OS's > the kids are learning and using) are unified. > > They don't have much money, so are looking for creative ways to accomplish > this. > > Assuming we can get the necessary number of PC's (10 more), I'm willing > to consider converting the whole lab to Linux, clients and server(s). > Even if we don't convert everything, I'd like to add a web server running > Linux to the mix. I have an extra PC I'll donate for this purpose. > > If anyone in the group has suggestions or help to offer, please let me > know. > > Thanks-- > --Tim From jammer at weak.org Wed Jun 9 12:21:52 2004 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:21:52 -0700 Subject: [buug] Beacon School In-Reply-To: <1086807228.12980@baywinds.org> References: <1086807228.12980@baywinds.org> Message-ID: <20040609192152.GG10082@weak.org> Also check with the Alameda County Computer Resource Center: http://www.accrc.org/ -Jon On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 11:53:48AM -0700, bferrell at baywinds.org wrote: > Tim, > > You might want to check out Alameda County property and Salvage in San Leandro next to Fairmont Hospital. That's where Alameda county disposes of just about everything. A couple of years ago I picked up a pair of complete Sun workstations for just a bit over $200. > > "Tim Mansfield" wrote .. > > Hi, > > > > I am going to be the technology teacher at Beacon School, a small, personalized, > > progressive school in Oakland. > > http://www.beaconschools.org/home.htm > > > > It's not a public school, but it's not just a bunch of rich kids; the school > > founder Thelma Farley makes a real effort to get a truly diverse bunch > > of kids in there (many on scholarship). > > > > So, there's a computer lab there with its own DSL line and fixed IP address. > > The lab contains 10 iMacs, 9 relatively new Dell PC's, and 1 larger generic > > PC being used as a file server (it's running Windows 2000 Server). > > > > The school wants to shunt the iMacs off to the side as a multimedia lab, > > and get 10 more PC's to replace them so the lab (i.e., the client OS's > > the kids are learning and using) are unified. > > > > They don't have much money, so are looking for creative ways to accomplish > > this. > > > > Assuming we can get the necessary number of PC's (10 more), I'm willing > > to consider converting the whole lab to Linux, clients and server(s). > > Even if we don't convert everything, I'd like to add a web server running > > Linux to the mix. I have an extra PC I'll donate for this purpose. > > > > If anyone in the group has suggestions or help to offer, please let me > > know. > > > > Thanks-- > > --Tim > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug From nickmdf at tsoft.com Thu Jun 10 08:27:03 2004 From: nickmdf at tsoft.com (Nick Sophinos) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:27:03 -0700 Subject: [buug] Hard Disk Data Recovery Recommendations? Message-ID: Hello Everyone, A neighbor of mine came to me yesterday and told me that her hard drive is physically trashed and was considering going to Best Buy for data recovery services. I suspect that there must be a better alternative around here in Berkeley. Once I take a look at it and verify that the hard disk really is toast, does anyone have a reccomendation as to where to bring it to? If it matters, she probably has Windows XP for the OS. Thanks, - Nick From wfhoney at pacbell.net Thu Jun 10 08:40:44 2004 From: wfhoney at pacbell.net (Bill Honeycutt) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:40:44 -0700 Subject: [buug] Hard Disk Data Recovery Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40C880FC.2080008@pacbell.net> A Berkeley search at http://www.google.com/local using keywords "hard disk recovery" gets you this link: http://ls.berkeley.edu/mail/micronet/2003/0275.html Make that search "hard drive data recovery" for Berkeley and you find: http://www.hddatarecovery.com/pages/1/index.htm Of course, if you foolishly use the search term "hard drive recovery", you'll only get Viagra ads : ) Nick Sophinos wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > A neighbor of mine came to me yesterday and told me that her hard drive is > physically trashed and was considering going to Best Buy for data recovery > services. I suspect that there must be a better alternative around here in > Berkeley. Once I take a look at it and verify that the hard disk really is > toast, does anyone have a reccomendation as to where to bring it to? If it > matters, she probably has Windows XP for the OS. > > Thanks, > > - Nick > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From brian at planetshwoop.com Thu Jun 10 08:49:31 2004 From: brian at planetshwoop.com (Brian Sobolak) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 10:49:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [buug] Hard Disk Data Recovery Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53584.4.17.250.5.1086882571.squirrel@4.17.250.5> Nick Sophinos said: > Hello Everyone, > > A neighbor of mine came to me yesterday and told me that her hard drive is > physically trashed and was considering going to Best Buy for data recovery > services. I suspect that there must be a better alternative around here > in > Berkeley. Once I take a look at it and verify that the hard disk really > is > toast, does anyone have a reccomendation as to where to bring it to? If > it > matters, she probably has Windows XP for the OS. Last time this happened to me, I took it to a place in San Leandro. I found it in the back of one of those free computer newspapers often found on the streets. You should know however that it is *not cheap*. This was 1998 (or so) and it was a 1GB drive - cost me $900. Hopefully prices have come down, but still, I doubt it will be cheap. That was the most expensive term paper ever, brian -- Brian Sobolak http://www.planetshwoop.com/ From bferrell at baywinds.org Thu Jun 10 21:09:40 2004 From: bferrell at baywinds.org (Bruce Ferrell) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:09:40 -0700 Subject: [buug] Hard Disk Data Recovery Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <53584.4.17.250.5.1086882571.squirrel@4.17.250.5> References: <53584.4.17.250.5.1086882571.squirrel@4.17.250.5> Message-ID: <40C93084.5090907@baywinds.org> Have you considered trying to access the drive under linux? I've found I can sometimes get in that way. I seem to recall a freshmeat project a few weeks back for reading damaged drives. Brian Sobolak wrote: > Nick Sophinos said: > >>Hello Everyone, >> >>A neighbor of mine came to me yesterday and told me that her hard drive is >>physically trashed and was considering going to Best Buy for data recovery >>services. I suspect that there must be a better alternative around here >>in >>Berkeley. Once I take a look at it and verify that the hard disk really >>is >>toast, does anyone have a reccomendation as to where to bring it to? If >>it >>matters, she probably has Windows XP for the OS. > > > Last time this happened to me, I took it to a place in San Leandro. I > found it in the back of one of those free computer newspapers often found > on the streets. You should know however that it is *not cheap*. This was > 1998 (or so) and it was a 1GB drive - cost me $900. > > Hopefully prices have come down, but still, I doubt it will be cheap. > > That was the most expensive term paper ever, > > brian > > > -- > Brian Sobolak > http://www.planetshwoop.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From jammer at weak.org Wed Jun 23 11:10:59 2004 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:10:59 -0700 Subject: [buug] [Heather_Fox@prenhall.com: Kirk McKusick's forthcoming new FreeBSD book] Message-ID: <20040623181059.GA1134@weak.org> Hey guys, Someone send me your shipping address (Ian?), and I'll have then send y'all the book to share... -Jon ----- Forwarded message from "Fox, Heather" ----- Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:02:08 -0400 From: "Fox, Heather" Subject: Kirk McKusick's forthcoming new FreeBSD book To: "'jammer at weak.org'" X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Hello, Addison-Wesley is publishing Kirk McKusick's new book in about a month (late July): "The Design & Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System". If you would like to receive a review copy for the benefit of your user group, please reply with a contact name/shipping address as soon as possible. Booklink to see cover, table of contents: http://www.awprofessional.com/title/0201702452 Thanks, HFox ************************* Heather Fox, Addison-Wesley/Prentice Hall PTR Publicist & Liaison for "Addison-Wesley/Prentice Hall PTR User Group Program" (phone) 201.236.7139; heather.fox at pearsoned.com www.awprofessional.com; www.phptr.com Geographic Location: c/o Pearson Education, 1 Lake St., #3K17, Upper Saddle River, NJ 07458 **************************************************************************** This email may contain confidential material. If you were not an intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies. We may monitor email to and from our network. **************************************************************************** ----- End forwarded message ----- From itz at buug.org Wed Jun 30 19:52:16 2004 From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: 30 Jun 2004 19:52:16 -0700 Subject: [buug] xprint daemon Message-ID: <87lli44exr.fsf@buug.org> Hi, those who run up-to-date Debian know that Mozilla and Firefox don't have built-in PostScript printing enabled anymore (and other X programs will probably follow the same path sooner or later). Instead, printing from Mozilla now requires the Xprint server. But I only need to print quite rarely; in fact I don't even have a dead tree printer, all I want to do is occassionally "print to file", upload the output to my work machine and print it there the next day. So running Xprint all the time seems quite wasteful, especially because it appears to be just a hacked copy of the regular X server, the worst hog among daemons. I'd like to set up Xprint to be started on demand through inetd. The README.Debian file hints that it is possible but it doesn't give any specific advice or examples. I could simply charge ahead but I am the worrying type, so these questions come to mind: 1/ how does the client (Mozilla) know on which X display to contact the Xprint daemon? It seems when Xprint is started the "official" way, from an initscript, the initscript sets up a file in /var/run or /tmp listing the available displays. But if it's started on demand, that list obviously won't exist. 2/ how does the Xprint daemon itself know it is being run through inetd, and thus that it should run the protocol on stdin/stdout rather than listen on a socket? There's no _documented_ option to tell it so (the whole manpage for the daemon seems to be just a customized copy of the Xserver manpage). TIA for answers, hints, or pointers. -- "It's not true or not." A reality show producer (real quote)