From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Sun Feb 11 15:31:21 2007 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:31:21 -0800 Subject: [buug] More books for BUUG & User Group Newsletter from Publisher Addison-Wesley/Prentice Hall/SAMS (/Pearson Education) Message-ID: <1171236681.45cfa749dda34@webmail.rawbw.com> Box from Prentice Hall / Pearson Education was apparently delivered 2007-02-06 containing the following book/ISBN items: o Media Flyer ("Compliments of Pearson Education, review copies not for resale, ...") ISBN-13 9780131347779 o Linux Administration Handbook, Second Edition ISBN-13: 9780131480049 [1] o Ajax for Web Application Developers, ISBN-13: 9780672329128 [2] o The Apache Modules Book, ISBN-13: 9780132409674 [3] I intend to bring them to the next BUUG meeting (2007-02-15), along with: Practical PHP and MySQL ISBN-13 9780132239974 [4] references: 1. http://www.prenhallprofessional.com/title/0131480049 2. http://www.samspublishing.com/title/0672329123 3. http://www.phptr.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=0132409674&rl=1 4. http://www.weak.org/pipermail/buug/2006-December/002875.html http://www.buug.org/ Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:27:09 -0500 From: "Fox, Heather" Subject: User Group Newsletter from Publisher Addison-Wesley/Prentice Hall/SAMS Hello Esteemed User Group Leaders! NEW BOOKS FOR YOUR GROUP! (Please read on to learn of new titles shipped for the benefit of your User Group) REMINDER: Be sure your members are receiving 35% off list price by purchasing directly from the publisher sites! The 35% coupon is also valid for our new Short Cuts! (i.e. our newest Short Cut title, Mongrel: Serving, Deploying, and Extending Your Ruby Applications (Digital Short Cut). www.informit.com/shortcuts Select the book(s) of your choice and enter COUPON CODE: "USERGROUP" (must be ALL CAPS!) at Checkout Step #3 (Payment Method). PLEASE NOTE-- You can request a PDF coupon flyer w/ this info to distribute to your members! Sites to Browse: www.awprofessional.com , www.prenhallprofessional.com , www.samspublishing.com and www.informit.com/shortcuts LATEST BOOK SHIPMENT FOR YOUR User Group! You will soon receive a shipment from Addison-Wesley/Prentice Hall/Sams Publishing including the following titles: --- NEWSFLASH: Brand new Second Edition of "Linux Administration Handbook", authored by Evi Nemeth/Garth Snyder/Trent Hein www.prenhallprofessional.com/title/0131480049 --- Ajax for Web Application Developers, authored by Kris Hadlock www.samspublishing.com/title/0672329123 NEXT UP! ....... Early next month (December 2006) you will receive review copies of these new books. New Series! Negus Live Linux Series (Your practical, hands-on guides to getting real results with free software) Flagship books: --- Live Linux CDs: Building and Customizing Bootables, authored by Christopher Negus www.prenhallprofessional.com/title/0132432749 --- Practical PHP and MySQL: Building Eight Dynamic Web Applications, authored by Jono Bacon www.prenhallprofessional.com/title/0132239973 BONUS BOOKS!! Your User Group can receive a bonus complimentary book for any of the below titles, but I need to hear from you FIRST! Please send your picks directly to me at: heather.fox at pearsoned.com --- "The Ruby Way"-- new SECOND EDITION, authored by Hal Fulton www.awprofessional.com/ruby --- "Python Phrasebook", authored by Brad Dayley www.samspublishing.com/title/0672329107 --- "Rapid Web Applications with TurboGears, authored by Mark Ramm/Kevin Dangoor/Gigi Sayfan www.prenhallprofessional.com/title/0132433885 REVIEWS! REVIEWS! Please encourage your LUG members to support their favorite books by submitting reviews directly to Heather Fox at: heather.fox at pearsoned.com, or submit to Amazon.com, BN.com, Slashdot.org, or other favorite news and resource sites. We are glad to be working with your User Group! Heather Fox ***************** Heather L. Fox, Senior Publicist & User Group Liaison Addison-Wesley Professional ProfessionalIBM Press Prentice Hall Sams Que Publishing Publishing Publishing imprints of Pearson Education heather.fox at pearsoned.com Office Ph: 201-236-7139; Office Fx: 201-236-7123 *Mobile*: 201-362-7763 Geo: c/o Pearson Education, 1 Lake St., 3K17, Upper Saddle River, NJ 07458 *********************************************************************** This email may contain confidential material. If you were not an intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies. We may monitor email to and from our network. *********************************************************************** From john at jjdev.com Tue Feb 13 11:56:28 2007 From: john at jjdev.com (John de la Garza) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:56:28 -0800 Subject: [buug] backup a dir with hard links In-Reply-To: <1171236681.45cfa749dda34@webmail.rawbw.com> References: <1171236681.45cfa749dda34@webmail.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <4A16F96A-4F52-4004-A87C-27FB1EFF634C@jjdev.com> If I have a file and create a hard link to it like: touch foo ln foo bar and want to back up the directory that contains this link, it seems that cp and rsync are not able to keep the link structure but if I use tar it does keep it Is it possible to keep the links with cp or rsync or must I use tar or another archiving thing? I have tried cp -RH which is not the way to go... From jeremy at nirvani.net Tue Feb 13 12:20:14 2007 From: jeremy at nirvani.net (Jeremy Brand) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:20:14 -0800 Subject: [buug] backup a dir with hard links In-Reply-To: <4A16F96A-4F52-4004-A87C-27FB1EFF634C@jjdev.com> References: <1171236681.45cfa749dda34@webmail.rawbw.com> <4A16F96A-4F52-4004-A87C-27FB1EFF634C@jjdev.com> Message-ID: Hi John, You might want to experiment with the -H option to rsync. Jeremy Thus spake John de la Garza: > If I have a file and create a hard link to it like: > > touch foo > ln foo bar > > and want to back up the directory that contains this link, it seems that cp > and rsync are not able to keep the link structure but if I use tar it does > keep it > > Is it possible to keep the links with cp or rsync or must I use tar or > another archiving thing? I have tried cp -RH which is not the way to go... > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > -- "Prediction is very difficult, especially of the future." Niels Bohr http://www.nirvani.net From grayarea at reddagger.org Tue Feb 13 12:45:32 2007 From: grayarea at reddagger.org (jwithers) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:45:32 -0800 Subject: [buug] backup a dir with hard links In-Reply-To: <4A16F96A-4F52-4004-A87C-27FB1EFF634C@jjdev.com> References: <1171236681.45cfa749dda34@webmail.rawbw.com> <4A16F96A-4F52-4004-A87C-27FB1EFF634C@jjdev.com> Message-ID: <1171399532.2050.216.camel@localhost> http://lists.samba.org/archive/rsync/2004-June/009666.html On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 11:56 -0800, John de la Garza wrote: > If I have a file and create a hard link to it like: > > touch foo > ln foo bar > > and want to back up the directory that contains this link, it seems > that cp and rsync are not able to keep the link structure but if I > use tar it does keep it > > Is it possible to keep the links with cp or rsync or must I use tar > or another archiving thing? I have tried cp -RH which is not the way > to go... > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug -- jwithers From john at jjdev.com Tue Feb 13 17:26:35 2007 From: john at jjdev.com (John de la Garza) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:26:35 -0800 Subject: [buug] backup a dir with hard links In-Reply-To: <1171399532.2050.216.camel@localhost> References: <1171236681.45cfa749dda34@webmail.rawbw.com> <4A16F96A-4F52-4004-A87C-27FB1EFF634C@jjdev.com> <1171399532.2050.216.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <5AC32F72-4FF5-4EC8-A75E-2D4183A140A9@jjdev.com> I maybe misreading, but I don't understand how this link applies to me. I am not having a problem with sym links, but rather hard links (which, as you probably know can only be files not directories, like the link you posted talks about) I am I missing something? I want my copy to have the same hard links as the source. On Feb 13, 2007, at 12:45 PM, jwithers wrote: > http://lists.samba.org/archive/rsync/2004-June/009666.html > > On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 11:56 -0800, John de la Garza wrote: >> If I have a file and create a hard link to it like: >> >> touch foo >> ln foo bar >> >> and want to back up the directory that contains this link, it seems >> that cp and rsync are not able to keep the link structure but if I >> use tar it does keep it >> >> Is it possible to keep the links with cp or rsync or must I use tar >> or another archiving thing? I have tried cp -RH which is not the way >> to go... >> _______________________________________________ >> Buug mailing list >> Buug at weak.org >> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > -- > jwithers > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug From jb at caustic.org Tue Feb 13 18:35:02 2007 From: jb at caustic.org (johan) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:35:02 -0800 Subject: [buug] backup a dir with hard links In-Reply-To: <5AC32F72-4FF5-4EC8-A75E-2D4183A140A9@jjdev.com> References: <1171236681.45cfa749dda34@webmail.rawbw.com> <4A16F96A-4F52-4004-A87C-27FB1EFF634C@jjdev.com> <1171399532.2050.216.camel@localhost> <5AC32F72-4FF5-4EC8-A75E-2D4183A140A9@jjdev.com> Message-ID: <27773444-E583-40CE-83BD-E67640154E86@caustic.org> On Feb 13, 2007, at 17:26 , John de la Garza wrote: > I maybe misreading, but I don't understand how this link applies to > me. I am not having a problem with sym links, but rather hard > links (which, as you probably know can only be files not > directories, like the link you posted talks about) > > I am I missing something? Probably. The hard link won't be maintained by rsync, since it won't transfer the inode or the fact that two different files are the same inode. So, without looking at --preserve-hard-links or using the -H option, it won't happen. Add in that flag, and it *should* relink on the other side. > > I want my copy to have the same hard links as the source. From rsync's man page on MacOS X 10.4.8, and rsync 2.6.9 on OpenBSD 4.0: -H, --hard-links preserve hard links I'm sure this answered your question. From john at jjdev.com Tue Feb 13 18:56:47 2007 From: john at jjdev.com (John de la Garza) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:56:47 -0800 Subject: [buug] backup a dir with hard links In-Reply-To: <27773444-E583-40CE-83BD-E67640154E86@caustic.org> References: <1171236681.45cfa749dda34@webmail.rawbw.com> <4A16F96A-4F52-4004-A87C-27FB1EFF634C@jjdev.com> <1171399532.2050.216.camel@localhost> <5AC32F72-4FF5-4EC8-A75E-2D4183A140A9@jjdev.com> <27773444-E583-40CE-83BD-E67640154E86@caustic.org> Message-ID: <5DEA78DE-B11C-4098-9B6B-A45712938DA2@jjdev.com> On Feb 13, 2007, at 6:35 PM, johan wrote: > > On Feb 13, 2007, at 17:26 , John de la Garza wrote: > >> I maybe misreading, but I don't understand how this link applies >> to me. I am not having a problem with sym links, but rather hard >> links (which, as you probably know can only be files not >> directories, like the link you posted talks about) >> >> I am I missing something? > > Probably. The hard link won't be maintained by rsync, since it > won't transfer the inode or the fact that two different files are > the same inode. > > So, without looking at --preserve-hard-links or using the -H > option, it won't happen. Add in that flag, and it *should* relink > on the other side. > >> >> I want my copy to have the same hard links as the source. > > From rsync's man page on MacOS X 10.4.8, and rsync 2.6.9 on OpenBSD > 4.0: > > -H, --hard-links preserve hard links > > I'm sure this answered your question. > > yes, thanks I guess, I will need to use rsync instead of cp, which is fine. From grayarea at reddagger.org Tue Feb 13 22:32:18 2007 From: grayarea at reddagger.org (jwithers) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:32:18 -0800 Subject: [buug] backup a dir with hard links In-Reply-To: <5AC32F72-4FF5-4EC8-A75E-2D4183A140A9@jjdev.com> References: <1171236681.45cfa749dda34@webmail.rawbw.com> <4A16F96A-4F52-4004-A87C-27FB1EFF634C@jjdev.com> <1171399532.2050.216.camel@localhost> <5AC32F72-4FF5-4EC8-A75E-2D4183A140A9@jjdev.com> Message-ID: <1171434738.9349.5.camel@localhost> No, John, you weren't missing anything. I was just not paying attention. Sorry for the waste of time. jpw On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 17:26 -0800, John de la Garza wrote: > I maybe misreading, but I don't understand how this link applies to > me. I am not having a problem with sym links, but rather hard links > (which, as you probably know can only be files not directories, like > the link you posted talks about) > > I am I missing something? > > I want my copy to have the same hard links as the source. > > > On Feb 13, 2007, at 12:45 PM, jwithers wrote: > > > http://lists.samba.org/archive/rsync/2004-June/009666.html > > > > On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 11:56 -0800, John de la Garza wrote: > >> If I have a file and create a hard link to it like: > >> > >> touch foo > >> ln foo bar > >> > >> and want to back up the directory that contains this link, it seems > >> that cp and rsync are not able to keep the link structure but if I > >> use tar it does keep it > >> > >> Is it possible to keep the links with cp or rsync or must I use tar > >> or another archiving thing? I have tried cp -RH which is not the way > >> to go... > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Buug mailing list > >> Buug at weak.org > >> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > -- > > jwithers > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Buug mailing list > > Buug at weak.org > > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug -- jwithers From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Tue Feb 13 22:42:59 2007 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:42:59 -0800 Subject: [buug] backup a dir with hard links In-Reply-To: <4A16F96A-4F52-4004-A87C-27FB1EFF634C@jjdev.com> References: <1171236681.45cfa749dda34@webmail.rawbw.com> <4A16F96A-4F52-4004-A87C-27FB1EFF634C@jjdev.com> Message-ID: <1171435379.45d2af7354f11@webmail.rawbw.com> Quoting John de la Garza : > If I have a file and create a hard link to it like: > > touch foo > ln foo bar > > and want to back up the directory that contains this link, it seems > that cp and rsync are not able to keep the link structure but if I > use tar it does keep it > > Is it possible to keep the links with cp or rsync or must I use tar > or another archiving thing? I have tried cp -RH which is not the way > to go... Well, cp(1) "knows" next-to-nothing about hard links so if you're trying to replicate the same hard link relationships, cp(1) is probably not the way to go. rsync(1) has some hard link capabilities, so there may be some possibilities there (I haven't explicitly examined/tested precise behavior and such). Various archive utilities e.g. tar(1), cpio(1), pax(1), etc. typically know about hard links, ... but may not always handle such exactly as one might expect. E.g., some things still haven't changed[1] much: $ ls $ mkdir S T && echo a > S/a && ln S/a S/b && echo foo > T/a && > (cd S && tar -cf - a b | (cd ../T && tar -xf - b)) && > cat T/b; ls -li T/[ab] foo 116874 -rw------- 2 michael users 4 Feb 13 22:05 T/a 116874 -rw------- 2 michael users 4 Feb 13 22:05 T/b $ Note that with tar(1), with multiple hard links, the first occurrence of the file is backed up, and the remainder are noted as hard links to the first. When one restores from tar(1), when non-first occurrences are restored, hard link is made to the pathname of the first occurrence ... regardless of whether or not that data was restored. That can sometimes lead to rather surprising results. I tend to think cpio handles that more reasonably[2]. If one restores any and/or all of the occurrences of the hard linked file, one gets the data that was backed up, and all the occurrences restored will be hardlinked to that same restored file. footnotes/references: 1. news:7v0cn4$37d at crl.crl.com or http://tinyurl.com/yosf8s 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_surprise cp(1), tar(1), cpio(1), pax(1), etc. http://www.unix.org/ From ian at linefeed.org Wed Feb 14 13:07:37 2007 From: ian at linefeed.org (Ian) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:07:37 -0800 Subject: [buug] New non-commercial, community colo in San Francisco Message-ID: Hello BUGG folks, We are writing because we think that BUUG sysadmins would be interested in a new non-commercial, community network with a colocation facility in downtown San Francisco. If you operate a server for an open source project, a non-profit organization or non-commercial personal use, you qualify to host your server at the San Francisco Community Colocation Project's colo at 6th & Brannan in downtown San Francisco. Your share of the collectively-purchased space & bandwidth starts around $45/1U/month. We have helped run a non-profit colo facility in the Bay Area for 5 years -- and now we are opening the doors to our newest colo in SF. We are part of a network that includes other community colos in Seattle, Chicago, Toronto and Washington DC. We are also committed to the protection of online free speech. In 2003, for example, we received a DMCA take-down order from Diebold regarding documents that had been posted to our servers that shed an embarrassing light on Diebold's eletronic voting machines. The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) took up the case and Diebold backed down. A corporate colo probably would have forced the client to comply with Diebold's lawyers. If any of this sounds good to you, please get in touch! 1) Email us -> inquire at sfccp.net 2) Call us -> (415) 887-7679 3) Check out our website -> http://www.sfccp.net/ For more information on the Diebold case, see http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/11/27/050218 Thanks for your time, Ian McLeod San Francisco Community Colocation Project www.sfccp.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Thu Feb 15 23:16:28 2007 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:16:28 -0800 Subject: [buug] backup a dir with hard links In-Reply-To: <20070215194405.BZER1287.aa05.charter.net@oly> References: <20070215194405.BZER1287.aa05.charter.net@oly> Message-ID: <1171610188.45d55a4c05b97@webmail.rawbw.com> > Scp -rp somedir/foo host:/somedir/bar > r is for recursive, while p is for preserve. > > Works for me. As for Hardlinks, it really shouldn't matter. You shell might > have something to do with it. No, ... that won't preserve the hard links. And it's not a matter of shell, either. $ d=`pwd -P` $ mkdir s t $ >s/a $ ln s/a s/t $ scp -pq s/? localhost:$d/t $ ls -l [st]/? -rw------- 2 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 s/a -rw------- 2 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 s/t -rw------- 1 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 t/a -rw------- 1 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 t/t $ Note that we end up with two distinct target files (each with link count of 1), and not a single file with a link count of 2. But if we use tar or cpio, things end up much better: $ rm t/? $ (cd s && tar -cf - ?) | ssh -x localhost "cd $d/t && tar -xf -" $ ls -l [st]/? -rw------- 2 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 s/a -rw------- 2 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 s/t -rw------- 2 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 t/a -rw------- 2 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 t/t $ rm t/? $ (cd s && ls -d ? | cpio -o -H newc) | > ssh -x localhost "cd $d/t && cpio -imu -H newc" 1 block 1 block $ ls -l [st]/? -rw------- 2 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 s/a -rw------- 2 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 s/t -rw------- 2 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 t/a -rw------- 2 michael users 0 Feb 15 23:01 t/t $ ssh-add -d > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: buug-bounces at weak.org [mailto:buug-bounces at weak.org] On Behalf Of > >>>Michael Paoli > >>>Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 10:43 PM > >>>To: John de la Garza > >>>Cc: buug at weak.org > >>>Subject: Re: [buug] backup a dir with hard links > >>> > >>>Quoting John de la Garza : > >>> > >>>> If I have a file and create a hard link to it like: > >>>> > >>>> touch foo > >>>> ln foo bar > >>>> > >>>> and want to back up the directory that contains this link, it seems > >>>> that cp and rsync are not able to keep the link structure but if I > >>>> use tar it does keep it > >>>> > >>>> Is it possible to keep the links with cp or rsync or must I use tar > >>>> or another archiving thing? I have tried cp -RH which is not the way > >>>> to go... > >>> > >>>Well, cp(1) "knows" next-to-nothing about hard links so if you're > >>>trying to replicate the same hard link relationships, cp(1) is > >>>probably not the way to go. rsync(1) has some hard link > >>>capabilities, so there may be some possibilities there (I haven't > >>>explicitly examined/tested precise behavior and such). Various > >>>archive utilities e.g. tar(1), cpio(1), pax(1), etc. typically know > >>>about hard links, ... but may not always handle such exactly as one > >>>might expect. E.g., some things still haven't changed[1] much: > >>>$ ls > >>>$ mkdir S T && echo a > S/a && ln S/a S/b && echo foo > T/a && > >>>> (cd S && tar -cf - a b | (cd ../T && tar -xf - b)) && > >>>> cat T/b; ls -li T/[ab] > >>>foo > >>>116874 -rw------- 2 michael users 4 Feb 13 22:05 T/a > >>>116874 -rw------- 2 michael users 4 Feb 13 22:05 T/b > >>>$ > >>>Note that with tar(1), with multiple hard links, the first occurrence > >>>of the file is backed up, and the remainder are noted as hard links to > >>>the first. When one restores from tar(1), when non-first occurrences > >>>are restored, hard link is made to the pathname of the first occurrence > >>>... regardless of whether or not that data was restored. That can > >>>sometimes lead to rather surprising results. > >>> > >>>I tend to think cpio handles that more reasonably[2]. If one restores > >>>any and/or all of the occurrences of the hard linked file, one gets the > >>>data that was backed up, and all the occurrences restored will be > >>>hardlinked to that same restored file. > >>> > >>>footnotes/references: > >>> > >>>1. news:7v0cn4$37d at crl.crl.com > >>> or > >>> http://tinyurl.com/yosf8s > >>>2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_surprise > >>>cp(1), tar(1), cpio(1), pax(1), etc. > >>>http://www.unix.org/ > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>Buug mailing list > >>>Buug at weak.org > >>>http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Wed Feb 28 08:39:23 2007 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:39:23 -0800 Subject: [buug] Another book for BUUG from Publisher Addison-Wesley/Prentice Hall/SAMS (/Pearson Education) Message-ID: <1172680763.45e5b03b93a7d@webmail.rawbw.com> Box from Prentice Hall / Pearson Education was apparently delivered 2007-02-16 containing another of the following book: o The Apache Modules Book, ISBN-13: 9780132409674 [1] I intend to bring it to the next BUUG meeting (2007-03-01). references: 1. http://www.phptr.com/bookstore/product.asp?isbn=0132409674&rl=1