From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Oct  2 06:39:30 2007
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue,  2 Oct 2007 06:39:30 -0700
Subject: [buug] I'll be back (Ian Zimmerman)
In-Reply-To: <87ir65974b.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
References: <873ay33uzl.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<1189878665.46ec1b89da088@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<87ejgzms27.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<87ir65974b.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <1191332370.47024a120d3b9@webmail.rawbw.com>

So, ... if 7-9 P.M. Th. Oct. 4th (regular BUUG meeting) is too late
for your schedule this time around, shall we have an informal meet-up
on Wed. Oct. 3rd 7-9 P.M.?  At the BUUG venue (
Au Coquelet Cafe, 2000 University Ave., Berkeley, CA 94704-1006
[1-510-845-0433])?  If that works for you, should we let the BADies know
too (also not the proper date for a BAD meeting, but doesn't mean we
can't invite folks for a little informal gathering anyway).
Could even invite folks for keysigning, if you want (hey, you
presently qualify as an out-of-area visitor).

BUUG would still do it's "regular" meeting on Oct. 4th (to avoid
horribly confusing folks that show up on the "regular" meeting date);
likewise BAD would still meet on it's regular meeting date this month ...
well, if someone actually calls the BAD meeting, anyway.

Not sure if it's every Wednesday, but I think there's also a (small?)
physics and cosmology group that meets at Au Coquelet Cafe on
(at least some) Wednesdays ... but I couldn't track down a reference
on that - at least with a quick Google search (I think we bumped into them
once before, on the Th after a W holiday ... possibly on 2007-07-05 -
they'd pushed their meeting one day later due to the holiday).

Quoting Ian Zimmerman <itz at madbat.mine.nu>:

> Ian> Hold on, there may be another chance within a couple of weeks.
> 
> My next foray to the Bay Area will take place on October 2-4.
> I'll arrive via SFO on the evening of the 2nd, and leave in the early
> PM on the 4th.  Not surprisingly perhaps my interview is on the 3rd,
> but I should be free in the evening.


From itz at madbat.mine.nu  Tue Oct  2 07:02:05 2007
From: itz at madbat.mine.nu (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 10:02:05 -0400
Subject: [buug] I'll be back (Ian Zimmerman)
In-Reply-To: <1191332370.47024a120d3b9@webmail.rawbw.com> (Michael Paoli's
	message of "Tue\, 2 Oct 2007 06\:39\:30 -0700")
References: <873ay33uzl.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<1189878665.46ec1b89da088@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<87ejgzms27.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<87ir65974b.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<1191332370.47024a120d3b9@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <87hcl9haxu.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>


Michael> So, ... if 7-9 P.M. Th. Oct. 4th (regular BUUG meeting) is too
Michael> late for your schedule this time around, shall we have an
Michael> informal meet-up on Wed. Oct. 3rd 7-9 P.M.?  At the BUUG venue
Michael> ( Au Coquelet Cafe, 2000 University Ave., Berkeley, CA
Michael> 94704-1006 [1-510-845-0433])?  If that works for you, should we
Michael> let the BADies know too (also not the proper date for a BAD
Michael> meeting, but doesn't mean we can't invite folks for a little
Michael> informal gathering anyway).  Could even invite folks for
Michael> keysigning, if you want (hey, you presently qualify as an
Michael> out-of-area visitor).

Yes, sounds great.  If you don't mind, do the invites, I'm already packing up.

-- 
This line is completely ham.


From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Oct  2 07:48:36 2007
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue,  2 Oct 2007 07:48:36 -0700
Subject: [buug] Ian Zimmerman @ Au Coquelet Cafe (Berkeley) 7-9 P.M. Wed.
	Oct. 3rd
In-Reply-To: <87hcl9haxu.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
References: <873ay33uzl.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<1189878665.46ec1b89da088@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<87ejgzms27.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<87ir65974b.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<1191332370.47024a120d3b9@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<87hcl9haxu.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <1191336516.47025a4472a89@webmail.rawbw.com>

Yes you're all invited:
Ian Zimmerman will be in the area briefly, so we're doing an informal meet-up:
2007-10-03 (Wed. Oct 3rd) 7-9 P.M. US/Pacific
Au Coquelet Cafe
2000 University Ave.
Berkeley, CA  94704-1006
USA
1-510-845-0433

Some may note this is where BUUG meets (but not when BUUG meets; BUUG will
still have its regularly scheduled meeting on Thursday).  And though a
Wednesday, this isn't when BAD meets ... so also thus not officially a BAD
meeting.

Keysignings?  Sure ... Ian Zimmerman is also an out-of-area resident
presently, so, maybe pick up some signatures from someone a bit further
away than your own backyard.

How to spot us / where to find us:
We'll likely sit where BUUG generally meets - not at the front section
of the cafe, but back behind that section (and typically there, and not
*all* the way back in the "restaurant" section).  Look for some nerdly
folks and/or familiar faces, and maybe even something resembling "BUUG",
"BAD" and/or a Debian swirl to give folks a hint which likely looking
bunch would be us.

references/excerpts:
http://www.buug.org/
http://bad.debian.net/
http://zer0.org/mailman/listinfo/ba-keysign/

Quoting Ian Zimmerman <itz at madbat.mine.nu>:

> Michael> So, ... if 7-9 P.M. Th. Oct. 4th (regular BUUG meeting) is too
> Michael> late for your schedule this time around, shall we have an
> Michael> informal meet-up on Wed. Oct. 3rd 7-9 P.M.?  At the BUUG venue
> Michael> ( Au Coquelet Cafe, 2000 University Ave., Berkeley, CA
> Michael> 94704-1006 [1-510-845-0433])?  If that works for you, should we
> Michael> let the BADies know too (also not the proper date for a BAD
> Michael> meeting, but doesn't mean we can't invite folks for a little
> Michael> informal gathering anyway).  Could even invite folks for
> Michael> keysigning, if you want (hey, you presently qualify as an
> Michael> out-of-area visitor).
> 
> Yes, sounds great.  If you don't mind, do the invites, I'm already packing
> up.


From bill.honeycutt at gmail.com  Tue Oct  2 11:00:09 2007
From: bill.honeycutt at gmail.com (wfh)
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:00:09 -0700
Subject: [buug] Wed. BUUG
Message-ID: <87acd5770710021100u2879da73j18e610ab656cbaed@mail.gmail.com>

Save a slice of pie for me.
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From afife at untangle.com  Tue Oct  9 11:34:39 2007
From: afife at untangle.com (Andrew Fife)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:34:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] BALUG Meeting: F/OSS Backup & Recovery (Tues 10/16)
Message-ID: <004701c80aa2$fa2f1b30$8eb4a8c0@Untangle.local>

Howdy Folks:

BALUG is hosting a great talk next Tuesday (10/16) titled "Open Source
Backup with Amanda" by the project's co-Founder, Paddy Sreenivasan.  Paddy
will explain how Amanda is different, its current status and why Linux
users should consider using it.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
RSVP at BALUG.ORG - RSVPs are not mandatory, but they do help us out a lot
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

6:30PM
October 16th, 2007 (Next Tuesday)
Four Seas Restaurant
731 Grant Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94108
www.balug.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
COST: The event is free. However, dinner is $13 for those that want to
eat.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

About Amanda:  
--------------
Amanda is the worlds most popular open source backup and recovery
software. Amanda protects over 500,000 systems running Linux, UNIX, OS-X &
Windows.  Paddy Sreenivasan is the co-founder & VP Engineering of Amanda's
commercial twin, Zmanda.  http://amanda.zmanda.com 

About BALUG: 
--------------
BALUG is lively gathering of Linux users & free software enthusiasts that
combines great food, community & intimate access to featured speakers.  We
meet in the bar of the Four Seas Restaurant from 6:30pm.  At 7pm, we share
a family-style Chinese dinner, which is followed by our guest speaker.
http://www.balug.org    

I hope to see you there!

Andrew

P.S.  If you want to help BALUG distribute flyers for the event, you can
find them here:

http://www.balug.org/flyers/2007-10-16.pdf

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Fife
Untangle - Open Source Security Gateway
download.untangle.com

650.425.3327 (O)
415.806.6028 (C)
afife at untangle.com



From afife at untangle.com  Tue Oct 16 00:29:44 2007
From: afife at untangle.com (Andrew Fife)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:29:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] BALUG Dinner Tonight (Open Source Backup & Recovery)
Message-ID: <005501c80fc6$3d12e990$4301a8c0@Untangle.local>

Howdy Folks:

The Bay Area Linux Users Group (BALUG) is hosting a great talk tonight
(10/16) titled "Open Source Backup with Amanda" by the project's
co-Founder, Paddy Sreenivasan.  Paddy will explain how Amanda is
different, the projects current status and why Linux users should consider
deploying it.  

**************************************************************************
**
RSVP at BALUG.ORG - RSVPs are not mandatory, but they do help us out a lot
**************************************************************************
**

6:30PM
October 16th, 2007 (Tonight!!!)
Four Seas Restaurant
731 Grant Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94108
www.balug.org

**************************************************************************
**COST: The event is free. However, dinner is $13 for those that want to
eat.
**************************************************************************
**

About Amanda:  
--------------
Amanda is the worlds most popular open source backup and recovery
software. Amanda protects over 500,000 systems running Linux, UNIX, OS-X &
Windows.  Paddy Sreenivasan is the co-founder & VP Engineering of Amanda's
commercial twin, Zmanda.  http://amanda.zmanda.com


About BALUG: 
--------------
BALUG is lively gathering of Linux users & free software enthusiasts that
combines great food, community & intimate access to featured speakers.  We
meet in the bar of the Four Seas Restaurant from 6:30pm.  At 7pm, we share
a family-style Chinese dinner, which is followed by our guest speaker.
http://www.balug.org    

I hope to see you there!

Andrew

********************************************
Andrew Fife
Untange - Open Source Security Gateway
download.untangle.com

650.425.3327 (O)
415.806.6028 (C)
afife at untangle.com 




From goku3g at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 16 04:26:50 2007
From: goku3g at yahoo.com (goku ball z)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:26:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] nano help!!!!
Message-ID: <695091.23627.qm@web90511.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,
  I have this problem.  I am running suse linux 10.0 Enterprise.  
  I was able to install nano-2.0.6 and as root I am able to use it.
   
  This is where my problem starts.  
  When I exit root and try to use nano, I get this error message.
  
nano: Command not found.
  but when I type /usr/local/bin/./nano  I am able to use it.
   
  and since I am using tcsh shell I made a file called .cshrc and added the following:
   
  setenv EDITOR/usr/local/bin/./nano  ( which didn't work )
  then I tried this also
  setenv EDITOR/usr/local/bin/nano  (which also didn't work)
   
  can someone out there help this hawaii newbie?!
   
  thanks and aloha from hawaii

       
---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! 
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
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From kwgoodman at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 06:45:09 2007
From: kwgoodman at gmail.com (Keith Goodman)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:45:09 -0700
Subject: [buug] nano help!!!!
In-Reply-To: <695091.23627.qm@web90511.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <695091.23627.qm@web90511.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f4f93d420710160645l23540f6eu9f1f232b07f7f128@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/16/07, goku ball z <goku3g at yahoo.com> wrote:
> and since I am using tcsh shell I made a file called .cshrc and added the
> following:
>
> setenv EDITOR/usr/local/bin/./nano  ( which didn't work )
> then I tried this also
> setenv EDITOR/usr/local/bin/nano  (which also didn't work)

Try inserting a space between EDITOR and the path.

Does /usr/local/bin (new nano) come before /usr/bin (old nano) in your path?

$ echo $PATH
/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games:/sbin


From noc at hdk5.net  Tue Oct 16 12:28:49 2007
From: noc at hdk5.net (NetOpsCenter)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:28:49 -1000
Subject: [buug] nano help!!!!
In-Reply-To: <695091.23627.qm@web90511.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <695091.23627.qm@web90511.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <471510F1.3040508@hdk5.net>

goku ball z wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have this problem.  I am running suse linux 10.0 Enterprise. 
> I was able to install nano-2.0.6 and as root I am able to use it.
>  
> This is where my problem starts. 
> When I exit root and try to use nano, I get this error message.
>
> nano: Command not found.
> but when I type /usr/local/bin/./nano  I am able to use it.
>  
> and since I am using tcsh shell I made a file called .cshrc and added 
> the following:
>  
> setenv EDITOR/usr/local/bin/./nano  ( which didn't work )
> then I tried this also
> setenv EDITOR/usr/local/bin/nano  (which also didn't work)
>  
> can someone out there help this hawaii newbie?!
>  
> thanks and aloha from hawaii
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
> Play Monopoly Here and Now 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48223/*http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow> 
> (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>   
Aloha!

I run FreeBSD here in Hawaii,  but I added the LUAU list to this email. 
Plenty local Linux users on it could maybe help you.


 
~Al Plant - Honolulu, Hawaii -  Phone:  808-284-2740
  + http://hawaiidakine.com + http://freebsdinfo.org + noc at hdk5.net +
  + http://internetohana.org   - Supporting - FreeBSD 6.* - 7.* +
"All that's really worth doing is what we do for others."- Lewis Carrol




From itz at madbat.mine.nu  Sun Oct 21 08:06:09 2007
From: itz at madbat.mine.nu (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:06:09 -0400
Subject: [buug] different runlevel with a headless box
Message-ID: <87zlycjyn2.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>

Can anyone think of a way to do this?  I don't mean "how to create a
runlevel to make a box headless", rather how to have two different
runlevels on a box that is already headless and choose between them when
booting.  I am thinking along the lines of attaching some sort of dongle
(USB pen drive maybe), but how to make grub (or later init) react to
that?
-- 
This line is completely ham.


From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sun Oct 21 10:59:00 2007
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:59:00 -0700
Subject: [buug] different runlevel with a headless box
In-Reply-To: <87zlycjyn2.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
References: <87zlycjyn2.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <1192989540.471b93646ea0a@webmail.rawbw.com>

Quoting Ian Zimmerman <itz at madbat.mine.nu>:

> Can anyone think of a way to do this?  I don't mean "how to create a
> runlevel to make a box headless", rather how to have two different
> runlevels on a box that is already headless and choose between them when
> booting.  I am thinking along the lines of attaching some sort of dongle
> (USB pen drive maybe), but how to make grub (or later init) react to
> that?

There may be better ways, but perhaps:

* default to "headless" runlevel
* as part of "headless" runlevel initialization, check for a console
  keyboard (e.g. USB keyboard or PS/2 or AT type keyboard) - if one is
  found, change to the non-headless runlevel (this can presumably be
  checked via an rc script)
* it may even be useful for USB hotplug detection of keyboard (keyboard
  present vs. not present) to automagically switch the run levels, if
  that's desired.

Another possible approach:
* use initrd, do enough initialization to determine if console keyboard is
  present or not, go to the appropriate runlevel based upon that.  Such an
  approach may have advantages of making the run level determination earlier
  in the boot sequence (e.g. before running all the rc proper stuff).

Approaches may also depend on what one wants to use for determining
"headless" or not.  If it's got a monitor (e.g. VGA display device)
but no keyboard, or keyboard, but no display device, does one want to
consider those cases "headless", or not?  I'd think keyboard detection
would typically be easier (there may even be a way to hook into that
from BIOS determination), but with not-so-ancient PnP monitors and
graphic cards, determining if a monitor is present or not might also
be rather feasible.


From jammer at weak.org  Sun Oct 21 04:20:31 2007
From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 04:20:31 -0700
Subject: [buug] different runlevel with a headless box
In-Reply-To: <1192989540.471b93646ea0a@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <87zlycjyn2.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<1192989540.471b93646ea0a@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20071021112031.GC2140@weak.org>

On Sun, Oct 21, 2007 at 10:59:00AM -0700, Michael Paoli wrote:
> Another possible approach:
> * use initrd, do enough initialization to determine if console keyboard is
>   present or not, go to the appropriate runlevel based upon that.  Such an
>   approach may have advantages of making the run level determination earlier
>   in the boot sequence (e.g. before running all the rc proper stuff).

This is probably your most straightforward avenue. Use an initrd on
the thumb drive with a different /etc/inittab on it. Then it's simply
a matter of convincing grub to check for the thumb drive and use it 
if it's present.

-Jon
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From brian at dessent.net  Sun Oct 21 17:58:53 2007
From: brian at dessent.net (Brian Dessent)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:58:53 -0700
Subject: [buug] different runlevel with a headless box
References: <87zlycjyn2.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <471BF5CD.8E079801@dessent.net>

Ian Zimmerman wrote:

> Can anyone think of a way to do this?  I don't mean "how to create a
> runlevel to make a box headless", rather how to have two different
> runlevels on a box that is already headless and choose between them when
> booting.  I am thinking along the lines of attaching some sort of dongle
> (USB pen drive maybe), but how to make grub (or later init) react to
> that?

I can't find it in the docs right now, but I seem to recall that you can
specify a desired runlevel to init with a single digit in the kernel
command line, eg:

title           Foobar GNU/Linux, kernel x.y.z-foo (headless)
kernel          /vmlinuz-x.y.z-foo root=/dev/<whatever> ro 2

title           Foobar GNU/Linux, kernel x.y.z-foo (X11)
kernel          /vmlinuz-x.y.z-foo root=/dev/<whatever> ro 5

Failing that, according to inittab(5) if there is no runlevel marked
initdefault, then init will prompt on the console for a runlevel at boot
time.

Brian


From itz at madbat.mine.nu  Sun Oct 21 20:54:05 2007
From: itz at madbat.mine.nu (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:54:05 -0400
Subject: [buug] different runlevel with a headless box
In-Reply-To: <471BF5CD.8E079801@dessent.net> (Brian Dessent's message of "Sun\,
	21 Oct 2007 17\:58\:53 -0700")
References: <87zlycjyn2.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>
	<471BF5CD.8E079801@dessent.net>
Message-ID: <877ilfn6si.fsf@unicorn.ahiker.homeip.net>


Ian> Can anyone think of a way to do this?  I don't mean "how to create
Ian> a runlevel to make a box headless", rather how to have two
Ian> different runlevels on a box that is already headless and choose
Ian> between them when booting.  I am thinking along the lines of
Ian> attaching some sort of dongle (USB pen drive maybe), but how to
Ian> make grub (or later init) react to that?

Brian> I can't find it in the docs right now, but I seem to recall that
Brian> you can specify a desired runlevel to init with a single digit in
Brian> the kernel command line, eg:

Brian> title Foobar GNU/Linux, kernel x.y.z-foo (headless) kernel
Brian> /vmlinuz-x.y.z-foo root=/dev/<whatever> ro 2

Brian> title Foobar GNU/Linux, kernel x.y.z-foo (X11) kernel
Brian> /vmlinuz-x.y.z-foo root=/dev/<whatever> ro 5

Brian> Failing that, according to inittab(5) if there is no runlevel
Brian> marked initdefault, then init will prompt on the console for a
Brian> runlevel at boot time.

"headless" == "no console"

I finally followed this suggestion by Michael:

Michael> as part of "headless" runlevel initialization, check for a
Michael> console keyboard (e.g. USB keyboard or PS/2 or AT type
Michael> keyboard) - if one is found, change to the non-headless
Michael> runlevel (this can presumably be checked via an rc script)

except that instead of connecting (and checking for) a keyboard, I check
for an inserted floppy :-) Actually I don't have the floppy yet, I have
thrown out all of mine so a friend has to pinch one for me at her work
:-) But I am confident that it will work, I have tested the runlevel
switch case already.  And a floppy is more convenient than a pen drive
because this stupid Dell box doesn't have USB ports in front.

Background: the box is just a compile server for distcc(1), so like
servers it doesn't have a monitor or keyboard attached, but unlike
servers it's not up all the time.  When I back it up with
rdiff-backup(1) I don't want distcc or other services to run
(cron/anacron would be especially nasty), but I still need sshd, hence
the need for an intermediate runlevel.

-- 
This line is completely ham.