From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Apr 1 09:05:53 2009 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:05:53 -0700 Subject: [buug] (forw) Re: [sf-perl] Fwd: SF perlmongers + Open Source Bridge Message-ID: <20090401160553.GR10221@linuxmafia.com> Given the interest in video clips. ----- Forwarded message from Rich Morin ----- Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 00:58:25 -0700 To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group From: Rich Morin Reply-To: San Francisco Perl Mongers User Group Subject: Re: [sf-perl] Fwd: SF perlmongers + Open Source Bridge At 00:09 -0700 4/1/09, Fred Moyer wrote: > If we are going to do an SF workshop we'll need > to be doing stuff like this. Speaking of things to consider doing, you might want to find out if you can get a sponsor to pay for videotaping the sessions. I have spent many enjoyable and worthwhile hours watching videos; here are a couple of my favorites, which aren't nearly as Rubyish as they might appear: http://rubyconf2008.confreaks.com/writing-code-that-doesnt-suck.html http://rubyconf2008.confreaks.com/what-all-rubyist-should-know-about-threads.html -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development _______________________________________________ SanFrancisco-pm mailing list SanFrancisco-pm at pm.org http://mail.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/sanfrancisco-pm ----- End forwarded message ----- From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 18:03:15 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:03:15 -0700 Subject: [buug] Setting up torrent on wifi Message-ID: On 30 Mar 2009 Rick Moen thoughtfully posted: {{ Sure. For example, good ol' wget. }} Thanks for the extensive examples. Will be playing with those commands in a day or two, after studying the ways of rsync! (BTW, I now have almost a hundred youtube videos for Linux newbies on my playlist. Didn't expect so much material from one service.) -- "A government is only as good as its operating system." - Mighty Mouse Virus http://www.gay-bible.org/write/3_security.htm From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 21:57:50 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:57:50 -0700 Subject: [buug] BerkeleyTIP, Speedtest -was Re: Linux video sites? In-Reply-To: <1238465887.22586.1308138773@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1238465887.22586.1308138773@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:18 PM, john_re wrote: {{ Also, re your question later in this thread, speedtest.net, use in the firefox browser, needs flash, is a good tool for checking your up & down inet connection speed. }} Using noscript, I gave permission to that site: very nice. Testing from the Cafe Mediterraneum in Berkeley, here are the results: 4.2 Mb/s download 0.56 Mb/s upload Now, to compare the results with "broadband speedtest" at [ http://www.testmy.net ]: 2.63 Mb/s download 0.4 Mb/s upload Interesting difference, though easily explained by Rick Moen's wget bare-bones approach, which I will soon employ. -- "A government is only as good as its operating system." From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 00:09:47 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:09:47 -0700 Subject: [buug] Xen sational! Message-ID: Another excellent BUUG gathering last night. Highlighted by Red Hat disciple Larry's armchair presentation of the Xen virtual machine. Though newbie, I was not the only person there who was not aware of the Xen phenomenon. So I got online once home, (my curiosity piqued) and found these most interesting Xen sites: Xen Virtual Machine Overview http://en.opensuse.org/Xen_Virtual_Machine_Overview Red Hat Wants Xen In Linux Kernel http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/01/0444221 The virtues of Xen http://www.redhat.com/magazine/014dec05/features/xen/ Xen: Frequently Confusing Issues http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley/xen-fci.html and last but not least: Xen http://xen.org/ -- "A government is only as good as its operating system." - Mighty Mouse Virus http://www.gay-bible.org/write/3_security.htm From eddymul at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 11:08:52 2009 From: eddymul at gmail.com (Eddy Mulyono) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 11:08:52 -0700 Subject: [buug] Xen sational! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67357fc10904031108w691039fft5b19629dd15d639d@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:09 AM, Pewter Bot wrote: > Another excellent BUUG gathering last night. Highlighted by Red Hat > disciple Larry's armchair presentation of the Xen virtual machine. > Though newbie, I was not the only person there who was not aware of > the Xen phenomenon. So I got online once home, (my curiosity piqued) > and found these most interesting Xen sites: > > Xen Virtual Machine Overview > http://en.opensuse.org/Xen_Virtual_Machine_Overview > > Red Hat Wants Xen In Linux Kernel > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/01/0444221 Since that article was written in 2005, I think Redhat has changed directions, these days, to bet on KVM http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Main_Page And, yes, KVM is in the Linux Kernel (since 2.6.20?) Redhat even acquired Qumranet, which is one of the main funder for the development of KVM. I am not trying to dis-credit Xen. I'd figure that while you're in the mood for open source virtualization, I'd share some more pointers. :) Happy hacking, -Eddy From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 12:13:24 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:13:24 -0700 Subject: [buug] Xen sational! In-Reply-To: <67357fc10904031108w691039fft5b19629dd15d639d@mail.gmail.com> References: <67357fc10904031108w691039fft5b19629dd15d639d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/3/09, Eddy Mulyono wrote: > And, yes, KVM is in the Linux Kernel (since 2.6.20?) Thanks for the update, Eddy. I opened Synaptic PacMan to discover yes, it's there for the taking, but not installed. Of course, my system being just a netbook, they stripped out certain features that either wouldn't work well on a netbook, or were not particularly appropriate for the system. -- "A government is only as good as its operating system." From itz at buug.org Fri Apr 3 23:29:07 2009 From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:29:07 -0700 Subject: [buug] Xen sational! In-Reply-To: <67357fc10904031108w691039fft5b19629dd15d639d@mail.gmail.com> (Eddy Mulyono's message of "Fri\, 3 Apr 2009 11\:08\:52 -0700") References: <67357fc10904031108w691039fft5b19629dd15d639d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <873acphqz0.fsf@matica.localdomain> I now have two periods of renting a xen virtual server behind me, and I am firmly convinced that, for that purpose, it sucks. In a nutshell, the problem is that while you have root on the guest system, you can't reconfigure or upgrade the kernel. Now, if you have control over the hypervisor, and use virtualization to isolate apps from one another, that may be a very different story. -- Ian Zimmerman gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5 BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD Ham is for reading, not for eating. From john_re at fastmail.us Fri Apr 3 23:39:55 2009 From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 23:39:55 -0700 Subject: [buug] TODAY April 4 -Global *Nix Voice Meeting BerkeleyTIP -Linus, Guido, Shuttleworth... Message-ID: <1238827195.28407.1308920225@webmail.messagingengine.com> Join with the friendly, productive, Global Linux community, in the _TWICE_ monthly, Voice over internet meeting, BerkeleyTIP-Global. GNU(Linux) & BSD, Free SW, HW & FreeCulture, Talks Installfest Project/ProgrammingParty http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/ NEW- _TWO_ monthly day long meetings- 10AM-6PM Pacific (GMT -8H) time, = 1P - 9P Eastern = 6PM - 2AM (Sat to Sunday) GMT Join in as short or long as you like. 1st Saturday - April 4 ***** TODAY ***** 3rd Sunday - April 20 ===== LOCATION - ONLINE, IN YOUR AREA, OR AT U. California Berkeley http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/directions ===== NEW VIDEOS: Linux Torvalds - GIT Mark Shuttleworth - Debian & Ubuntu - Debian & Derived Distros Krafft Shuttleworth Levsen - Debian Derivers Roundtable Fabricio Cannini - Debian High Performance clusters and supercomputers Guido Van Rossum - Python 3000 BestTech LAMPR - Get Started with Ruby on Rails in < 5 minutes Culture - Professor Wikipedia - The funniest video of the year. [Citation needed.] [Thanks to all the speakers, videographers, & organizations. :) Please excuse if I mistyped names. <8-0 I hereby invite the speakers to attend BTIP for Q&A & discussion. Please notify the speakers if you know how to contact them, thanks. :) ] Download the videos & watch them before or during the meeting. Join online during the relevant topic hour to discuss each video. [See below for longer talk descriptions.] http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos ===== YOU GIVE A 5 MINUTE LIGHTNING TALK 4 PM. Let us know in advance what you'd like to talk about. :) ===== NEW MEETING COMPONENTS FREE CULTURE - Wikipedia, Creative Commons, etc COLLEGE MAJORS Business, Medicine, Law, Engineering, Art/Lit/Science/Social/Psych/Humanities/LiberalArts, etc SOFTWARE: Games ===== SCHEDULE / AGENDA 10AM - 6PM Pacific time (= GMT - 8 Hours) TIME TOPIC / ACTIVITY 10 A Set up. Get on IRC & VOIP 11 A Installfest; Ekiga3 12 N Asterisk, OLPC, Games; PROGRAMMING PARTY: VOIP Conference client & server 1 P Xen, Virtualbox; LAMPR - Database; Law 2 P KDE & GNOME; Macintosh; FreeCulture: Wikipedia,CreativeCommons 3 P Debian; BSD; College & University groups; Business 4 P LIGHTNING TALKS; Hardware- Ex: OpenMoko Phone; Medicine 5 P Art/Literature/Music; Python; INetWebDev; Local simultaneous meetings arrangements for next meeting ===== Voice/VOIP CONFERENCE MEETING TECHNOLOGY Join in on IRC, & we'll help you get on VOIP. :) IRC: #BerkeleyTIP, irc.freenode.net Hardware: VOIP Headset- (USB recommended for echo cancellation?) Software: Ekiga(GnomeMeeting) recommended. SIP VOIP server: Ekiga.net http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance ===== LOCATION GROWTH: GREAT PROGRESS In March we QUADRUPLED our international attendance. :) Welcome :) GLOBAL: Germany, England, Iran, India US: So far: Hawaii, California, Washington, Michigan, Virgina, NCarolina When will your state or country 1st join in??? ===== PROJECT / PROGRAMMING PARTY Work on your own project, or the group project. Share details of your project on IRC, VOIP & the mailing list. Invite others to join in your project. Or, work on the group project - Learning about & Improving Ekiga, Asterisk, & our VOIP conference system/technology. ===== Join the Global BerkeleyTIP mailing list http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal ===== THANKS, HOPE YOU JOIN; FOR FORWARDING I hope you join in the meeting. :) Join by yourself, or invite your friends over & have a party. Have a party at your home, or at a local to you location - a WiFi cafe, or at a college or university is a great place for a meeting. :) You are invited to forward this message wherever appropriate - Ex: perhaps your local meeting group (LUG, etc), or whatever, if you see this on a global mailing list. ======================================================================= ===== VIDEOS - MORE DETAILED DESCRIPTIONS: 3 from DebConf08: 1) Fabricio Cannini - Debian High Performance clusters and supercomputers, 1hr 2) Mark Shuttleworth on Debian and Ubuntu - Keynote current state of collaboration between Debian and Ubuntu, progress made, and new opportunities for collaboration and development. 3) Debian Derivers Roundtable discussion - prominent developers of Debian-derived works, including Martin (Debian Edu). 1hr Linus Torvalds on Git - Git is a rewrite from scratch concurrent versioning system that Linus wrote to replace cvs, subversion (svn) and other versioning systems used in large collaborative software development. Benefits, drawbacks and insufficiencies of other versioning systems in common use. Google Tech Talks Guido Van Rossum, Python 3000, Google, 1h 25m Topic LAMPR: Get Started with Ruby on Rails in less than five minutes - BestTech Free Culture - Professor Wikipedia - CollegeHumor - A short but interesting take on Wikipedia, and the side effect of anyone being able to edit the content. Listen as Professor Wikipedia alters his lecture presumably because people are "changing" his lecture behind the scenes. The funniest video of the year. [Citation needed.] 02:55 From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 02:18:24 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 02:18:24 -0700 Subject: [buug] Xen sational! In-Reply-To: <873acphqz0.fsf@matica.localdomain> References: <67357fc10904031108w691039fft5b19629dd15d639d@mail.gmail.com> <873acphqz0.fsf@matica.localdomain> Message-ID: On 4/3/09, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > I now have two periods of renting a xen virtual server behind me, and I > am firmly convinced that, for that purpose, it sucks. Ods bodkins! From bill.honeycutt at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 08:41:56 2009 From: bill.honeycutt at gmail.com (Wm. F. Honeycutt) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 08:41:56 -0700 Subject: [buug] I fell for it :o) Message-ID: <87acd5770904040841v678e2f78lcee08f3e4c7d0593@mail.gmail.com> http://mail.google.com/mail/help/autopilot/index.html 4-1-09 From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 15:29:16 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:29:16 -0700 Subject: [buug] Blog Recommendations? Message-ID: Hey, BUUGers & BUUGettes! I'm itchin' to start a web log for Linux newbies (wow, last out of the starting gate, I know). Can anyone recommend a good FREE blog for that topic? Is there perhaps a blog service just for *nix topics? TIA. -- "A government is only as good as its operating system." - Mighty Mouse Virus http://www.gay-bible.org/write/3_security.htm From windsor.schmidt at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 17:31:36 2009 From: windsor.schmidt at gmail.com (Windsor Schmidt) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 17:31:36 -0700 Subject: [buug] Blog Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66e006d50904041731n6001d45eheaf8abf08fead849@mail.gmail.com> Unless I missed one of your requirements on the weblog, How about wordpress.org? -Windsor On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Pewter Bot wrote: > Hey, BUUGers & BUUGettes! I'm itchin' to start a web log for Linux > newbies (wow, last out of the starting gate, I know). Can anyone > recommend a good FREE blog for that topic? Is there perhaps a blog > service just for *nix topics? TIA. > > -- > "A government is only as good as its operating system." > - Mighty Mouse Virus > http://www.gay-bible.org/write/3_security.htm > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 03:07:21 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 03:07:21 -0700 Subject: [buug] Blog Recommendations? Message-ID: Whaddya know, I just stumbled onto this: Linux Blog Aggregator - Linux blogs under one roof! http://blogs.linux.org.bd/?p=6335 Excellent resource. So wherever I set up my Linux blog, I gotta let them know about me. And thank you Windsor, for your recommendation of wordpress. They are a quality service; I'll look into that. I'm wondering about Technorati, because it has a good way of promoting your blog to all other members. Still, I'm holding out for a blog service dedicated to *nix users...we'll see! -- "Gnome wasn't built in a day." - Nero Burner From bill.honeycutt at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 09:22:55 2009 From: bill.honeycutt at gmail.com (Wm. F. Honeycutt) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 09:22:55 -0700 Subject: [buug] Blog Recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87acd5770904050922h1c95b1bcvd97a6a7dce066bd4@mail.gmail.com> s/\*nix users/Open Source/ Check this: http://wordpress.org/hosting/ FOSS and free. On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 3:07 AM, Pewter Bot wrote: > Whaddya know, I just stumbled onto this: > > Linux Blog Aggregator - Linux blogs under one roof! > http://blogs.linux.org.bd/?p=6335 > > Excellent resource. So wherever I set up my Linux blog, I gotta let > them know about me. And thank you Windsor, for your recommendation of > wordpress. They are a quality service; I'll look into that. I'm > wondering about Technorati, because it has a good way of promoting > your blog to all other members. > > Still, I'm holding out for a blog service dedicated to *nix users...we'll see! > > > -- > "Gnome wasn't built in a day." > - Nero Burner > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Wed Apr 8 03:21:58 2009 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 03:21:58 -0700 Subject: [buug] Fwd: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter -- April 2009 Message-ID: <20090408032158.5235529gpd68emos@webmail.rawbw.com> Forwarded (slightly redacted): ----- Forwarded message from usergroups at informit.com ----- Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 14:50:15 -0400 From: "InformIT User Groups" Reply-To: "InformIT User Groups" Subject: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter -- April 2009 To: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter Issue 15 -- April 2009 Thank you for reading the Pearson Education User Group Program monthly newsletter for official group members. Please pass this along to your colleagues and share our news and offers. ----------------------------------------------------------------- QuickLinks Monthly User Group Contest: http://www.informit.com/usergroupwelcome InformIT Product Review Team: http://www.informit.com/productreviewteam InformIT Store: http://www.informit.com/store OnPodcast Network: http://www.informit.com/podcasts/index.aspx Connect with us on Twitter and Facebook: http://www.informit.com/socialconnect ----------------------------------------------------------------- News & Announcements I'm attending. Are you? Join us at TechEd 2009! We?re excited to announce that the Pearson Education User Group Program will be out in full force May 11-15 at this year's Microsoft TechEd event in Los Angeles. Stop by booth #335-#337 to introduce yourself, check out a wide range of products, and enter daily drawings! http://www.microsoft.com/events/TechEd2009 19th Annual Jolt Product Excellence Awards Congratulations are in order! "Emergent Design: The Evolutionary Nature of Professional Software Development" by Scott L. Bain was selected as a Jolt Productivity Winner for 2009. Emergent Design: http://www.informit.com/title/0321509366 See all Jolt Award winners: http://www.joltawards.com/winners.html Vote for Your Favorite Programming Book! We've got our own list of "top seeds" and "sleepers" when it comes to programming and software development books. Visit www.informit.com/votenow to choose your favorite from our pool of 16 titles and receive a special offer. 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See all titles: http://www.informit.com/store ----------------------------------------------------------------- User Groups of the Month Minnesota: PASSMN-Minnesota SQL Server User Group is a part of the national PASS organization and serves the Minnesota SQL Server community. PASSMN is a forum to exchange knowledge and ideas to better understand, develop, implement and support existing and future SQL Server technologies. For more information, visit http://www.mnssug.org. Tennessee: Nashville Cisco Users Group is open to all Cisco network engineers (or aspiring Cisco network engineers) in the Nashville area. NCUG holds regular meetings on the third Tuesday or every month. For more information, visit http://nashvillecisco.blogspot.com. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Authors and Events: April April 3-27 -- Clara Shih Clara Shih, author of The Facebook Era (http://www.informit.com/title/0137152221), will be making several appearances during April -- don't miss out! > 4/2: Book launch party -- Azie Restaurant, San Francisco, 6:00-8:00 p.m. > 4/3: Speaking -- Web 2.0 Expo San Francisco (http://www.web2expo.com) > 4/7: Speaking -- Cloudforce London session > (http://www.salesforce.com/cloudforce) > 4/15: Speaking -- University of Chicago Graduate School of Business > 4/16: Speaking -- Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University > 4/20: Speaking -- UC Berkeley Haas Business School > 4/21: Social Media author panel -- NBC, San Jose > 4/27: Book signing party -- Stanford University Bookstore April 7 -- "Measuring Your Security Program" Training Forum Phoenix ISSA (Information Systems Security Association) members are offering an opportunity for you to stay on top of an ever-changing field -- earn 4 hours of CPE credits for certification maintenance! Learn more at http://phoenix.issa.org. April 14-17 -- Black Hat Europe 2009 Black Hat Europe has evolved into the most important information security event on the European continent. Check out this year's strong four-track line-up at http://www.blackhat.com. April 25-26 -- LinuxFest Northwest Join fellow Linux enthusiasts and satisfy your curiosity, get free stuff, ask experts, explore the latest in software technology and experience the magic of grassroots software. For more information, isit http://linuxfestnorthwest.org/. April 27-30 -- Voices That Matter: Web Design Conference Top web design authors will bring their years of experience and knowledge to this year's Voices That Matter: Web Design Conference in San Francisco. Register now and download a free e-book at http://www.voicesthatmatter.com/WebDesign2009/. Have a User Group event in your area? Let us know! E-mail details to usergroups at informit.com for consideration in next month's newsletter. Please include "User Group Event" in the subject line. ----------------------------------------------------------------- User Group Offers http://www.informit.com/usergroupwelcome Special Savings on eBook Versions of Best-Selling Works by Scott Meyers Scott Meyers' seminal C++ books -- "Effective C++," "More Effective C++," and Effective STL" -- have been immensely helpful to hundreds of thousands of C++ programmers. All three are finally available as PDF eBooks. And not just as any PDFs -- Scott has worked closely with Addison-Wesley's production team to exploit the capabilities of electronic presentation and avoid the artificial limitation often imposed on readers of electronic books. Buy all three eBooks for $89.99, or buy the print book at a 20% discount and get the eBook version for just $19.99, plus the print book ships for free. Learn more at http://www.informit.com/promotions/promotion.aspx?promo=136685. 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Download It Here: http://www.apple.com/itunes/download/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- Did someone forward this to you? E-mail usergroups at informit.com with your name, group name, group topic area, and e-mail address to subscribe. InformIT, 800 East 96th Street, Indianapolis, Indiana 46240 © 2009 Pearson Education. All rights reserved. Unsubscribe ----- End forwarded message ----- From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Wed Apr 8 03:51:15 2009 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 03:51:15 -0700 Subject: [buug] Xen sational!(?) In-Reply-To: <873acphqz0.fsf@matica.localdomain> References: <67357fc10904031108w691039fft5b19629dd15d639d@mail.gmail.com> <873acphqz0.fsf@matica.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090408035115.19903m92yqk8ai0w@webmail.rawbw.com> Quoting "Ian Zimmerman" : > I now have two periods of renting a xen virtual server behind me, and I > am firmly convinced that, for that purpose, it sucks. In a nutshell, > the problem is that while you have root on the guest system, you can't > reconfigure or upgrade the kernel. > > Now, if you have control over the hypervisor, and use virtualization > to isolate apps from one another, that may be a very different story. Well, I've got a mixed impression of Xen ... lots of stuff going for it, but on the downside: o documentation's still pretty sucky last I checked in detail, anyway. OpenSource is good - but it's no substitute for good documentation (e.g. one shouldn't have to grok Python to be able to determine how to get a Xen guest to boot off of an alternate (real or virtual) device). o paravirtualization - more efficient (saves space and all that), but it's not full virtualization, and it does quite intertwine guest and host kernel o full virtualization - on hardware that supports it ... I haven't had opportunity to try that yet with Xen ... but that would have it's advantages (and also disadvantages) As far as a hosting provider (e.g. renting a Xen guest) - with full virtualization, it should be feasible to allow guests to update their kernels (and to allow reconfigurations of the guests) ... that doesn't necessarily mean it's easy to provide that service or there's anyone out there doing it yet. With paravirtualization, guest kernel is very tightly bound to host kernel ... so changes there will likely be rather to quite restricted. From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Wed Apr 8 06:08:36 2009 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 06:08:36 -0700 Subject: [buug] Printers (and Open Source, etc.) In-Reply-To: <20090319080202.GX28192@linuxmafia.com> References: <20090318225322.GY5493@linuxmafia.com> <87r60um9es.fsf_-_@matica.localdomain> <20090319080202.GX28192@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20090408060836.91922mw9myknbwsg@webmail.rawbw.com> Quoting "Pewter Bot" : P> Being Linux compatible is no assurance that the printer will produce P> pages even half as good as Windoze. I know from personal Results definitely will vary. In some cases, much better results will be obtained with Linux / OpenSource. E.g. my relatively ancient Hewlett-Packard DeskJet Plus printer (about 1989 vintage) works great with Debian GNU/Linux, ... not only does it work great with current Debian, but it quite likely works much better with current Debian - even after all these years - than it likely does (if it even works at all) with most current released operating system from Microsoft. I was also very pleasantly surprised a fair number of years back, when I discovered that with Debian GNU/Linux, I could print PostScript to my non-PostScript aforementioned printer (thanks to gs(1) (Ghostscript)). And (trying to avoid being too redundant with what others have already said), whether or not it's listed as "compatible" with Linux isn't much of a guarantee one way or the other. I rather doubt these days that my Hewlett-Packard DeskJet Plus printer shows up on a whole lot of Linux compatible printer lists ... other than where it's mostly just been carried forward from being put on such a list a long time ago. That, however, doesn't mean it doesn't and wouldn't work. E.g., if there are drivers/programs/methods that support the language(s)/protocols of the printer (and do so rather to quite well), then it will generally work - even if the printer isn't explicitly listed as supported. Quoting "Rick Moen" : R> Indeed, a number of printer manufacturers decline to even minimally meet R> the needs of open source developers -- which means they're not willing R> to make technical specs and example code available except (perhaps) R> under NDA, which of course precludes use of that information in open R> source development. Please note that this isn't just a Linux thing, but Yes, ... "open hardware" - or at least making the relevant technical information available - and preferably readily available without NDA or the like - is quite important to OpenSource. E.g. my quite old printer came with excellent documentation on all the escape/control sequences used by the printer (a version of Hewlett-Packard's Printer Control Language (PCL)). My genuine Hercules monochrome graphics card came with information how to request - for free - technical details (for programmers, etc.) for programming the hardware, etc. I requested and got that information (as likely did hundreds or more developers) - so that information is rather to quite available - and hence that graphics card is very well supported in OpenSource (much to my pleasant surprise, years ago, I discovered xfree86 (now x.org) supports X on that graphics card! Something not even SCO did if one paid SCO the extra dollars to get X11). Okay, so 1 bit monochrome X isn't too exciting ... but hey, it works, and I found it to be much more exciting than no X at all (so exciting I decided that adding a mouse would make my X more useable). Anyway, point is (at least sufficiently) "open hardware" is quite important to OpenSource. It not only helps in getting the hardware supported, but in helping to ensure it will continue to be supported. Binary only "blob" support tends to disappear over time - this is quite commonly seen, e.g., with Microsoft "drivers" (try to get your ten year old anything peripheral supported on a current Microsoft operating system - not likely to be supported. For OpenSource (e.g. Linux), if the information was ever there to allow it to be supported, quite likely it's still supported - or at least could be supported). R> By the way: Friends don't let friends buy cruddy injets. Well, inkjets definitely have their disadvantages and (few) advantages. I'd generally recommend avoiding like the plague any that have patent encumbered inkjet cartridges (most notably ones that lock one in to "forever" (okay, about 17 years or so) buying overpriced - and likely ever increasing in price - inkjet cartridges from exactly one manufacturer). Fortunately my (quite) old inkjet printer at least doesn't have the cartridge patent mess to deal with (so cheap(er) cartridges from other suppliers, refills/refilling that works, etc. are all very possible and generally rather to quite available). R> The modern equivalent is the highly proprietary low-end inkjet that's R> sold for almost no money and probably at a loss, because they know R> they'll make a fortune from you on expensive proprietary ink cartridges. Yes - they almost give away the printers (loss leader, anyway), but with ink cartridge lock-in (often encumbered by patented circuitry in the cartridges), and sell the cartridges at maximum profit sole source provider levels. There are exceptions, but that's typically the "rule" and business model for most inkjet sales. Quoting "Rick Moen" : R> You know, a person of limited means should favour either a well-chosen R> used middle-of-the road laser printer _or_ a new, low-end, but equally R> well chosen, laser printer. I'd do that _regardless_ of OS. Typically, absolutely. R> I would eschew inkjet printers entirely, with one small exception, noted R> below. Why? Because the overwhelming majority of them, and possibly Yes, some (quite) limited exception(s?). R> The usage exception: There are occasions when you simply have an R> arguable need to print in colour, e.g., to print out colour photographs. R> If so, one can argue that you might want to save up for a _second_ R> printer, an inkjet, that you carefully avoid using on any other R> occasion. But having an inkjet as your primary printer is, alas, a R> self-defeating economics error. Well, ... if one prints quite to exceedingly rarely, inkjet might come out lower in cost ... okay, might have to couple that with tossing out and replacing printer and cartridges every few years or so ... but that's just about the only area where inkjet will be less expensive for printing. (I print quite rarely at home - probably average of about 15 pages per year ... so - laser vs. inkjet - likely inkjet was cheaper for me for the first few cartridges (they dry up anyway after a few years - even if not used) ... so ... maybe cheaper for approximately the first 5 to 7 years ... but likely more expensive sometime past that point). Anyway, for even slightly more modest printing (say >=70 pages per year), laser very quickly (within one to three years) becomes the much better buy. R> If the store won't let you boot Knoppix or Sidux and print a test page, R> you're in the wrong store. Or at least let you bring in your laptop and hook their printer to it to try it out. Many stores don't want to boot their computers off of something provided by the customer (they don't want a customer to be able to stick malware on computer's hard or flash drive) ... but they really should make reasonable accommodations on that ... if they want to sell (more) computers (and some/many will, ... but many don't). Quoting "Ian Zimmerman" : I> multifunction --- one box houses a printer, a scanner and a copier --- Multifunction is quite handy - but there certainly can be "gottcha"s. A friend of mine has one - it wouldn't let her send a FAX without replacing (for about $50.00) the "empty" (or dried, or clogged, or below the "replace me now" level) ink cartridge(s). I picked up a Brother multifunction (price was right - free giveaway at curbside) - makes a nice scanner (thanks to sane(7)) - selftest color print seems perfectly fine too, ... haven't tried printing to it otherwise (haven't yet found a real need to print color at home). Hopefully it doesn't refuse to scan if some ink cartridge goes empty/dry. I> And then there are the power considerations. Lasers are notorious power Absolutely! That's one of the reasons I (years ago, anyway) selected an inkjet. I could even power it up and use it running from my UPS (not that I particularly needed to, but ...). Since "way back then", power management for laser printers has, however, gotten quite a bit better (though, in some office settings, I often wonder about the nickels/quarters per day/week saved on power vs. the multiple minutes of worker's time waiting for the printer/copier to warm up - if there's not an app for it yet, seems in many cases that should/could be solved from desktop before getting up to use a printer/coper that's in cold/standby mode ... heck, ought to even be able to tell you someone else is in the middle of running their 700 copies). I've not read/heard much about it in quite a long time - but laser printer/copier fuser technologies - there's hot (takes lots of power), and also cold (greatly reduced power consumption). They operate differently and do produce somewhat noticeably different output. Cold fusion uses much higher pressure, and its output has a bit of a shiny appearance to it - sheets also come out much flatter than the often noticeably slightly wavy sheets output from hot fusion. If I recall correctly, the cold fusion method is also a fair bit more expensive to manufacture - so tends to increase cost of printer itself - more noticeable in lower-end lasers ... not as much of a price difference in higher-end lasers, ... but cold fusion drums typically also have a significantly longer (5 to 10x?) service life compared to hot fusion drums. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_printer#Fusing http://www.printingtips.com/printing-tips/t-27-159/direct-imaging-processes.asp#Ionography http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photocopier From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 13 06:49:36 2009 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:49:36 -0700 Subject: [buug] BALUG: 2009-04-21 Allison Randal on Parrot (interpreter engine behind Perl 6 & other languages), etc.; & other BALUG news Message-ID: <20090413064936.196864x47potnapc@webmail.rawbw.com> Contents - upcoming meetings: 2009-04-21 Allison Randal on Parrot, etc. 2009-05-19 (final speaker confirmation pending) 2009-06-16 Kyle Rankin on forensics ------------------------------ Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-04-21 Allison Randal[1] on Parrot[2], etc. Parrot is a virtual machine like no other. Targeting dynamic languages such as Perl[3], Ruby[4], Python[5] and PHP[6], it incorporates an object-oriented assembly language, is register-based rather than stack-based, and employs continuations as the core means of flow control. It hosts a powerful suite of compiler tools tailored to dynamic languages and a next generation regular expression engine. This talk briefly explains the overall architecture of Parrot and teaches the skills needed to get started hacking in Parrot. Allison Randal is chief architect and lead developer of the open source project Parrot, chairman of the Parrot Foundation[7], on the board of directors of The Perl Foundation[8], founder of the FLOSS Foundations[9] group for open source leaders, and founder and president of Onyx Neon Press[10]. She also works for O'Reilly Media[11], planning the program for their Open Source Convention (OSCON[12]). So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, April 21st, 2009 2009-04-21 Four Seas Restaurant 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy $5 PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Randal 2. http://www.parrot.org/ 3. http://www.perl.org/ 4. http://www.ruby-lang.org/ 5. http://www.python.org/ 6. http://php.net/ 7. http://www.parrot.org/foundation 8. http://www.perlfoundation.org/ 9. http://flossfoundations.org/ 10. http://www.onyxneon.com/ 11. http://oreilly.com/ 12. http://conferences.oreilly.com/oscon ------------------------------ 2009-05-19 (final speaker confirmation pending) To be sure to see updates, subscribe to the BALUG announce list[13] if you're not already subscribed, or check back on meeting information[14] on the BALUG web site[15]. 13. http://www.balug.org/#Lists 14. http://www.balug.org/#Meetings%20(upcoming) 15. http://www.balug.org/ ------------------------------ 2009-06-16 Kyle Rankin[30] on forensics 30. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/1849 ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org From john at jjdev.com Mon Apr 13 18:16:29 2009 From: john at jjdev.com (John de la Garza) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:16:29 -0700 Subject: [buug] cannot execute binary file or use printf Message-ID: Last week I was able to build simple assembly language programs and run them. It seems like all of a sudden I can't run my programs. any ideas on what could cause this? I can't think of anything that has changed This program assembles and links ok but when I run it I get an error ---------------------------------------------------------------- john at ldev:~/asm/test$ cat jump.s .section text .globl _start _start: nop movl $1, %eax movl $10, %ebx int $0x80 john at ldev:~/asm/test$ make as -gstabs -o jump.o jump.s ld -o jump jump.o john at ldev:~/asm/test$ ./jump -sh: ./jump: cannot execute binary file john at ldev:~/asm/test$ --------------------------------------------------------------- If I try to use printf I can't link: ------------------------------- john at ldev:~/asm/test$ cat add.s .section .data output: .asciz "%d = %d + %d\n" .section .text .globl _start _start: nop movl $9, %eax movl $22, %ebx pushl %ebx pushl %eax xadd %eax, %ebx pushl %ebx pushl $output call printf call exit john at ldev:~/asm/test$ as ./add.s -o add.o john at ldev:~/asm/test$ ld -dynamic-linker /lib/ld-linux.so.2 -o add add.o add.o: In function `_start': (.text+0x17): undefined reference to `printf' add.o: In function `_start': (.text+0x1c): undefined reference to `exit john at ldev:~/asm/test$ ------------------------------------ From itz at buug.org Mon Apr 13 19:43:33 2009 From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:43:33 -0700 Subject: [buug] cannot execute binary file or use printf In-Reply-To: (John de la Garza's message of "Mon\, 13 Apr 2009 18\:16\:29 -0700") References: Message-ID: <878wm4kl9m.fsf@matica.localdomain> If I try to use printf I can't link: ------------------------------- john at ldev:~/asm/test$ cat add.s .section .data output: .asciz "%d = %d + %d\n" .section .text .globl _start _start: nop movl $9, %eax movl $22, %ebx pushl %ebx pushl %eax xadd %eax, %ebx pushl %ebx pushl $output call printf call exit john at ldev:~/asm/test$ as ./add.s -o add.o john at ldev:~/asm/test$ ld -dynamic-linker /lib/ld-linux.so.2 -o add add.o add.o: In function `_start': (.text+0x17): undefined reference to `printf' add.o: In function `_start': (.text+0x1c): undefined reference to `exit john at ldev:~/asm/test$ If you execute ld explicitly (as opposed to having gcc execute it for you), you must also list all libraries, including libc. So adding -lc (and possibly -lm) to your command should help. I assume your system is Linux .. you know better than not telling us :) Not sure exactly about the first problem, but it happens to me too. I also tried it with gcc: itz at matica:~$ gcc -nostartfiles -nostdlib -o jump jump.s itz at matica:~$ ./jump bash: ./jump: cannot execute binary file Have you upgraded the kernel recently? I did. -- Ian Zimmerman gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5 BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD Ham is for reading, not for eating. From windsor.schmidt at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 00:44:01 2009 From: windsor.schmidt at gmail.com (Windsor Schmidt) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:44:01 -0700 Subject: [buug] cannot execute binary file or use printf In-Reply-To: <878wm4kl9m.fsf@matica.localdomain> References: <878wm4kl9m.fsf@matica.localdomain> Message-ID: <66e006d50904140044v62c1a531me5e05ce6213d5dcf@mail.gmail.com> John, some info based on a couple of tests using my i386 Linux box... In your first example on the first line, try adding a period "." before the word "text" so it reads: .section .text For your second example, passing the -lc and -lm options to ld didn't help me with the undefined reference to printf and exit, so I used gcc instead. After I changed the label name to "main", assembled with as, and linked with gcc using something like the following, it worked fine for me: $ as -o add.o add.s $ gcc add.o -o add $ ./add 31 = 9 + 22 The listing, after I modified it, looked like this: .section .data output: .asciz "%d = %d + %d\n" .section .text .globl main main: nop movl $9, %eax movl $22, %ebx pushl %ebx pushl %eax xadd %eax, %ebx pushl %ebx pushl $output call printf call exit Hope that helps, -Windsor On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > > > If I try to use printf I can't link: > > ------------------------------- > john at ldev:~/asm/test$ cat add.s > .section .data > output: > ? ? ? ?.asciz "%d = %d + %d\n" > .section .text > .globl _start > _start: > ? ? ? ?nop > ? ? ? ?movl $9, %eax > ? ? ? ?movl $22, %ebx > ? ? ? ?pushl %ebx > ? ? ? ?pushl %eax > ? ? ? ?xadd %eax, %ebx > ? ? ? ?pushl %ebx > ? ? ? ?pushl $output > ? ? ? ?call printf > ? ? ? ?call exit > john at ldev:~/asm/test$ as ./add.s -o add.o > john at ldev:~/asm/test$ ld -dynamic-linker /lib/ld-linux.so.2 -o add add.o > add.o: In function `_start': > (.text+0x17): undefined reference to `printf' > add.o: In function `_start': > (.text+0x1c): undefined reference to `exit > john at ldev:~/asm/test$ > > If you execute ld explicitly (as opposed to having gcc execute it for you), > you must also list all libraries, including libc. ?So adding -lc (and possibly > -lm) to your command should help. > > I assume your system is Linux .. you know better than not telling us :) > Not sure exactly about the first problem, but it happens to me too. > I also tried it with gcc: > > itz at matica:~$ gcc -nostartfiles -nostdlib -o jump jump.s > itz at matica:~$ ./jump > bash: ./jump: cannot execute binary file > > Have you upgraded the kernel recently? ?I did. > > -- > Ian Zimmerman > gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD > fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5 ?BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD > Ham is for reading, not for eating. > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug From john at jjdev.com Tue Apr 14 12:09:45 2009 From: john at jjdev.com (John de la Garza) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:09:45 -0700 Subject: [buug] cannot execute binary file or use printf In-Reply-To: <66e006d50904140044v62c1a531me5e05ce6213d5dcf@mail.gmail.com> References: <878wm4kl9m.fsf@matica.localdomain> <66e006d50904140044v62c1a531me5e05ce6213d5dcf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks a a lot. It all works now. I needed that '.' for jump.s and I was forgetting -lc. From itz at buug.org Thu Apr 16 22:25:51 2009 From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:25:51 -0700 Subject: [buug] Homemade shutdown widget Message-ID: <87myafam1s.fsf@matica.localdomain> Someone asked about this tonight. $ cat /usr/local/sbin/shutdown.glade 5 Shutdown GTK_WIN_POS_CENTER_ON_PARENT GDK_WINDOW_TYPE_HINT_DIALOG True 2 True Push the appropriate button to shut down. 1 True GTK_BUTTONBOX_END True True True _Single User True 0 True True True _Reboot True 0 1 True True True _Halt True 0 2 False GTK_PACK_END $ cat /usr/local/sbin/shutdown.py #! /usr/bin/env python import gtk import gtk.glade import os class ShutdownReactor(object): def on_halt_button_clicked(self, b): os.system('shutdown -h now') def on_reboot_button_clicked(self, b): os.system('shutdown -r now') def on_single_user_button_clicked(self, b): os.system('telinit 1') def on_top_dialog_destroy(self, d): gtk.main_quit() if __name__ == '__main__': xml = gtk.glade.XML('/usr/local/sbin/shutdown.glade') xml.signal_autoconnect(ShutdownReactor()) w = xml.get_widget('top_dialog') w.show_all() gtk.main() $ cat /etc/X11/xdm/Xsetup #!/bin/sh # # $Id$ # # This script is run as root before showing login widget. #xsetroot -solid rgb:8/8/8 hsetroot -tile /usr/local/share/sky-1280x1024.jpg xconsole -geometry +0-0 & /usr/local/sbin/shutdown.py & echo "$!" > /var/run/shutdown.py.pid (I actually only want this with the login dialog, so I kill it in /etc/X11/xdm/Xstartup ; that's why I save the pid. But you don't have to do that, and it will persist into your session.) hth -- Ian Zimmerman gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5 BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD Ham is for reading, not for eating. From jim at well.com Tue Apr 21 23:57:33 2009 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 23:57:33 -0700 Subject: [buug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday April 23, 2009: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions Message-ID: <1240383453.7266.303.camel@jim-laptop> BayPIGgies meeting Thursday March 26, 2009: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions for Computer Vision Research NOTE BayPIGgies meets at the Symantec Vcafe, at Symantec's location at 350 Ellis Street in Mountain View. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18 Tonight's talk is * Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions for Computer Vision Research by Damian Eads Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an essential Python feature, specially for those new to Python. Tonight's Newbie Nugget: unknown at this time LOCATION FOR April, 2009 Symantec Corporation Symantec Vcafe 350 Ellis Street Mountain View, CA 94043 BayPIGgies meeting information is available at http://baypiggies.net/new/plone ------------------------ Agenda ------------------------ ..... 7:30 PM ........................... General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any first-minute announcements. ..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................ Newbie Nugget: unknown ..... 7:45 PM to 8:35 PM ................ Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions for Computer Vision Research by Damian Eads ..... 8:35 PM to 9:00 PM ................ Mapping and Random Access Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics the announcers are interested in. Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually on the announcements and other topics of interest. From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 16:56:55 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:56:55 -0700 Subject: [buug] Shuttleworth thinks Oracle/Sun deal is great news Message-ID: Mark Shuttleworth (Ubuntu) thinks Oracle/Sun deal is great news for Linux Submitted by Ali Ross on Wed, 04/22/2009 - 13:18 Whilst the sceptics reel and the blogosphere goes mad with speculation over whether Oracle will use Sun's large open source portfolio to Microsoft's/et al. detriment the key players in the commercial side to open source are putting a positive spin on this news, especially none other than Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth. (cont. reading here:) http://linuxnewbieguide.org/content/mark-shuttleworth-ubuntu-thinks-oraclesun-deal-great-news-linux -- Zeke Krahlin http://ezekielk.tblog.com From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 11:23:39 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:23:39 -0700 Subject: [buug] Shuttleworth thinks Oracle/Sun deal is great news In-Reply-To: <49F00EC5.4040808@earthlink.net> References: <49F00EC5.4040808@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On 4/22/09, Charles Hixson wrote: {{ Based just on what *I* know, however, one can't even reasonably *guess* whether it's good or bad. }} I am no great lover of Larry Ellison, myself. -- Zeke Krahlin From buug at weak.org Thu Apr 23 11:28:26 2009 From: buug at weak.org (Admin Corrine VIAGRA ®) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:28:26 -0700 Subject: [buug] Message NR.32442 Message-ID: <200904231828.n3NISQwU011711@weak.org> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Admin Corrine VIAGRA ? Subject: RE: Message NR.32442 Date: no date Size: 4899 URL: From ken.ingram at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 11:52:15 2009 From: ken.ingram at gmail.com (Ken Ingram) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:52:15 -0700 Subject: [buug] Shuttleworth thinks Oracle/Sun deal is great news In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2aa958470904231152s7ce57097vaaf601f6e2915489@mail.gmail.com> And that means Oracle will have ownership of MySQL. What will it do to that market? Hm? (I'm an Oracle DBA and I have been using MySQL extensively for the last 6 years.) On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Pewter Bot wrote: > Mark Shuttleworth (Ubuntu) thinks Oracle/Sun deal is great news for Linux > Submitted by Ali Ross on Wed, 04/22/2009 - 13:18 > > Whilst the sceptics reel and the blogosphere goes mad with speculation > over whether Oracle will use Sun's large open source portfolio to > Microsoft's/et al. detriment the key players in the commercial side to > open source are putting a positive spin on this news, especially none > other than Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth. (cont. reading here:) > > > http://linuxnewbieguide.org/content/mark-shuttleworth-ubuntu-thinks-oraclesun-deal-great-news-linux > > -- > Zeke Krahlin > http://ezekielk.tblog.com > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kes at lifesabirch.org Thu Apr 23 16:29:44 2009 From: kes at lifesabirch.org (Alex Birch) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:29:44 -0400 Subject: [buug] Shuttleworth thinks Oracle/Sun deal is great news In-Reply-To: References: <49F00EC5.4040808@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Pewter Bot wrote: > > > I am no great lover of Larry Ellison, myself. > They say that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, right? Regarding MySQL, if you use a fork and explain that it's Oracle MySQL to your PHB, then there's a better chance of him liking it. Personally I prefer Postgres but I won't start a holy war here. This may free OpenOffice from the hegemony of Sun developers. Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 18:58:33 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 18:58:33 -0700 Subject: [buug] Shuttleworth thinks Oracle/Sun deal is great news In-Reply-To: References: <49F00EC5.4040808@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Alex Birch wrote: {{ They say that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, right??}} The Oracle speaks of many things...interpretation, however, leaves much to be resolved...IOW, a Paradox from the Land of Bor.. {{ Personally I prefer Postgres but I won't start a holy war here. }} The acquisition of Sun by Oracle is a historical shift for good or bad...I figured it was worthy to note. Personally, I stand against monopoly, and in favor of diversity. As for "holy war", we are creatures of ideology no matter what the subject matter. Gather your strength points wisely! {{ This may free OpenOffice from the hegemony of Sun developers. }} I hadn't thought about that possibility, which would be a nice outcome. Leave the two giants Sun and Or to enjoy their domestic partnership while the honeymoon lasts...and the stepchild may slip away to greener pasture! Thanks much for your insight; Alex. you are far more informed than myself, in this topic. -- Zeke Krahlin City of the Undead From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 17:28:50 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:28:50 -0700 Subject: [buug] Drunk on WINE Message-ID: Learning how to use WINE, having a great time (wish you were here)! The first application I installed w/wine is a very useful note taker/keeper called "treepad"...which does have a Linux version, though the windoze version is more sophisticated. So thanks to wine, I can now have back one of my favorite note organizers. I have also found that notetab (my favorite text editor) works great too. These are both freeware versions BTW. Seems that, if you can't successfully install a windoze program via wine, don't give up yet. Try installing it the conventional way, in windoze (assuming it's already installed in another partition), then just try running it from there. None of the programs listed with wine are freeware, so I just have to use trial and error. Now, I miss the great free windoze games I can download from my favorite games site, "Abandonia Reloaded": http://www.reloaded.org/ But to my delight, they seem to install fine via/wine, sound and all! I can also run my favorite quick and dirty image editor, Irfanview. (And of course, Linux's own native gimp is fabulous for more sophisticated image work.) Of course, I've just begun playing with wine, and I have much more to learn. Here's a neat site I just discovered: Frank's Corner: running windows applications and games on linux http://frankscorner.org/index.php?p=qa -- Zeke Krahlin City of the Undead From microberts at com-techs.net Sat Apr 25 19:55:41 2009 From: microberts at com-techs.net (microberts) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:55:41 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? Message-ID: <1240714541.11539.7.camel@debian.Belkin> i would like to speak to live people about linux issues tip and tricks when and where? From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 12:09:13 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:09:13 -0700 Subject: [buug] Re: when is the next meeting? (microberts) Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 microberts posted: {{ when is the next meeting? i would like to speak to live people about linux issues tip and tricks }} BUUG meetings are laid back and sociable...definitely NOT the place to push product. Which is how you come off: a salesman. -- Zeke Krahlin City of the Undead From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 13:18:57 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 13:18:57 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) In-Reply-To: <49F4BD0B.8020000@berkeley.edu> References: <49F4BD0B.8020000@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On 4/26/09, Jack Deslippe wrote: > I do not think he came off as a salesman. What I don't find laid back > is accusing emails ;) Perhaps. I find his post to be too slick for the usual badinage. You are free to tell him when/where the next BUUG meeting is. From oly562 at charter.net Sun Apr 26 16:04:58 2009 From: oly562 at charter.net (PR) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:04:58 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) In-Reply-To: References: <49F4BD0B.8020000@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <49F4E89A.3070809@charter.net> sounds like he is interested. my two bits ;) Pewter Bot wrote: > On 4/26/09, Jack Deslippe wrote: > >> I do not think he came off as a salesman. What I don't find laid back >> is accusing emails ;) >> > > Perhaps. I find his post to be too slick for the usual badinage. You > are free to tell him when/where the next BUUG meeting is. > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 16:13:06 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:13:06 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) In-Reply-To: References: <49F4BD0B.8020000@berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 2:03 PM, william benton wrote: > will you guys answer basic questions regarding unix and vi? Definitely, and gladly. Often, basic questions are referred to a reference site providing the answer. -- Zeke Krahlin City of the Undead From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 16:23:55 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:23:55 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) In-Reply-To: <49F4E875.50600@charter.net> References: <49F4E875.50600@charter.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 4:04 PM, PR wrote: > sounds like he is interested. my two bits ;) Indeed he does. Every now and then, some slick salesman type will show up, ready to chew our ears off about how fine their Linux or related product is, then hand out a bunch of sleek brochures, or if we're especially lucky, manuals. Tends to be a waste of good people's time, as well as a kiljoy. It's been awhile, so I guess we're about due for another obnoxious visitation. Many many years since I dropped out of the Catholic Church, but in light of this latest imposition, I'm seriously considering inviting an exorcist to the next meeting. -- Zeke Krahlin City of the Undead From microberts at com-techs.net Sun Apr 26 21:17:35 2009 From: microberts at com-techs.net (mike) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:17:35 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) In-Reply-To: References: <49F4E875.50600@charter.net> Message-ID: <1240805855.3985.9.camel@mike-laptop> On Sun, 2009-04-26 at 16:23 -0700, Pewter Bot wrote: > On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 4:04 PM, PR wrote: > > sounds like he is interested. my two bits ;) > > Indeed he does. Every now and then, some slick salesman type will show > up, ready to chew our ears off about how fine their Linux or related > product is, then hand out a bunch of sleek brochures, or if we're > especially lucky, manuals. Tends to be a waste of good people's time, > as well as a kiljoy. > > It's been awhile, so I guess we're about due for another obnoxious > visitation. Many many years since I dropped out of the Catholic > Church, but in light of this latest imposition, I'm seriously > considering inviting an exorcist to the next meeting. > Looking at the reply i Got, i can assure you I am not a sales man. I simply found the site about 5 years back when i first thought about moving my pc's over to Linux. But back then I did not feel ready to make the move. after upgrading to windows Vista. I knew i had no choice. seeing that the site did not change. I was not sure if there were still actual meetings there. so i shot off an email confirming people will actually be there if i showed up. seeing that there will be people there to answer questions from a newbie Linux user. I plan on coming with lots of questions and problems. about my Linux os i installed. and what os would you all recommend for people who are new to this operating system. an example question i would have asked there would have been What laptop would be the most compatible with the most distros of linux including freebsd opensuse fedora Debian and others. but seeing the response from the first e-mail i sent out. maybe i will ask this one here. so you will get the IDEA of what I am looking to ask once i actually show up. :P i look forward to seeing the answers to this question Mike Roberts From itz at buug.org Mon Apr 27 00:41:08 2009 From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:41:08 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) In-Reply-To: <1240805855.3985.9.camel@mike-laptop> (mike's message of "Sun\, 26 Apr 2009 21\:17\:35 -0700") References: <49F4E875.50600@charter.net> <1240805855.3985.9.camel@mike-laptop> Message-ID: <87fxfutugb.fsf@matica.localdomain> mike> an example question i would have asked there would have been What mike> laptop would be the most compatible with the most distros of linux mike> including freebsd opensuse fedora Debian and others. but seeing mike> the response from the first e-mail i sent out. maybe i will ask mike> this one here. so you will get the IDEA of what I am looking to mike> ask once i actually show up. mike> :P i look forward to seeing the answers to this question I have a IBM Thinkpad, and I like it. There is even a dedicated mailing list for them: http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-thinkpad One particular feature that distinguishes it from most other laptops is that the pointing device has 3 buttons. We pre-integrated-desktop neanderthals like that, because some of the older programs use the middle button in an essential way. See also http://nobrowser.blogspot.com/2008/02/adventures-of-gnome-hater-part-first.html and I hope you won't be turned off by the entrance warning ;-) -- Ian Zimmerman gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5 BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD Ham is for reading, not for eating. From oly562 at charter.net Mon Apr 27 09:57:14 2009 From: oly562 at charter.net (PR) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:57:14 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) In-Reply-To: <1240805855.3985.9.camel@mike-laptop> References: <49F4E875.50600@charter.net> <1240805855.3985.9.camel@mike-laptop> Message-ID: <49F5E3EA.9070609@charter.net> If your bored, don't read this, reading my emails are known to cause headaches: server = freebsd, solaris. laptop = debian/ubuntu 6.04 LTS As for the reasons why? To me, they are all the same, all under root, and etc, other than the package managers. Every distro has their own "PM". OF course the kernels are diff between linux and unix - given. I am speaking from a high level of usage, the lower levels I am now working on and learning. I noticed that ubuntu has lots of support on the IRC channels, and of course their web/docs. FreeBsd - enough said. Love the ports, gagillions of support docs, and if your daring, Sun Solaris is awesome, if you can empty your cup. I wonder what everyone else at BUG uses/prefers? These are my prefs and of course, my two bits Njoy, Oly mike wrote: > On Sun, 2009-04-26 at 16:23 -0700, Pewter Bot wrote: > >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 4:04 PM, PR wrote: >> >>> sounds like he is interested. my two bits ;) >>> >> Indeed he does. Every now and then, some slick salesman type will show >> up, ready to chew our ears off about how fine their Linux or related >> product is, then hand out a bunch of sleek brochures, or if we're >> especially lucky, manuals. Tends to be a waste of good people's time, >> as well as a kiljoy. >> >> It's been awhile, so I guess we're about due for another obnoxious >> visitation. Many many years since I dropped out of the Catholic >> Church, but in light of this latest imposition, I'm seriously >> considering inviting an exorcist to the next meeting. >> >> > > > Looking at the reply i Got, i can assure you I am not a sales man. I > simply found the site about 5 years back when i first thought about > moving my pc's over to Linux. But back then I did not feel ready to make > the move. after upgrading to windows Vista. I knew i had no choice. > seeing that the site did not change. I was not sure if there were still > actual meetings there. so i shot off an email confirming people will > actually be there if i showed up. seeing that there will be people there > to answer questions from a newbie Linux user. I plan on coming with lots > of questions and problems. about my Linux os i installed. and what os > would you all recommend for people who are new to this operating > system. > > an example question i would have asked there would have been What laptop > would be the most compatible with the most distros of linux including > freebsd opensuse fedora Debian and others. but seeing the response from > the first e-mail i sent out. maybe i will ask this one here. so you will > get the IDEA of what I am looking to ask once i actually show up. > > :P i look forward to seeing the answers to this question > > Mike Roberts > > > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > > From atporter at primate.net Mon Apr 27 10:02:41 2009 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron Porter) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:02:41 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) In-Reply-To: <49F5E3EA.9070609@charter.net> References: <49F4E875.50600@charter.net> <1240805855.3985.9.camel@mike-laptop> <49F5E3EA.9070609@charter.net> Message-ID: <20090427170241.GF22455@primate.net> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 09:57:14AM -0700, PR wrote: > if your daring, Sun Solaris is awesome, if you can empty your cup. I'm curious... what exactly about Solaris do you find awesome? From oly562 at charter.net Mon Apr 27 11:18:45 2009 From: oly562 at charter.net (PR) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:18:45 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) In-Reply-To: <20090427170241.GF22455@primate.net> References: <49F4E875.50600@charter.net> <1240805855.3985.9.camel@mike-laptop> <49F5E3EA.9070609@charter.net> <20090427170241.GF22455@primate.net> Message-ID: <49F5F705.7000203@charter.net> Since working for JPL, thats NASA, and the way I witnessed the usage of Solaris 8-10x, I was pretty impressed. Maybe it was the fact that the crew had to use the system, as they are mainly used for guidence/control/comm/storage/flight op's/backward compat hardware/support for 10 years plus, was the reason I enjoyed my experience using solaris. The versioning, jumpstart, nfs/nis imp, the support, zfs, processing power of high end servers used in the labs had lots of pretty lights, and a nice smooth humm. The labs tried linux/Redhat/Suse, but you can understand why they dropped those. I myself used RH since 6.0 and I am through with it. Remember, the team members at JPL were not your normal breed. They all have been using NIX for years,, more than anyone I have worked with in the past 15 years. Most them could comment more than i ever could as they all have been around since inception of darpa, and my mentor owned the first mail server on the net. They knew how to use the sun boxes and solaris, and unix/linux for that matter. Now, in regards to my comment, if your daring,,, i just mean that. if your daring, give the system a try. Using your own level of skill give the systems like Rand Corporation, and Toyota in Torrance DC uses. If you have access to very high end servers, and various other sun devices, check it out, and see for yourself. NOw if you level is not on which I described, then the system is just like the others, actually harder to use than most free os. However, if your level is above average and you do have access, you will notice the differences on your own - of course setting all networking devices as side, I am speaking only of the OS. Maybe I am wrong, or right, who knows, but the guy prior said, what is the best, I stick by my 3 choices for many reasons, for which I will not ever delve into. That would take many moons, and I do not have the time, nor the patience required. My level may not be your level, you see? It all boils down to what your willing to use, learn, and promote based on YOUR experiences. Lastly, when dude asked, I should have just said, pick one OS, it doesn't matter, stick with it for a year or two - in the cmdline, and you be the judge. Then afterwards, try another OS, distro, flavor, whatever, as you will come to realize what works for you. I do not really like to think that there is ONE OS, since I do not believe there is just one, but I do believe there is Terminal Node Operators who know how to work the system they are using, and thus profess this is the best for THEM. Anyfoo, there are over 200 0S's out there, the one that is best? I feel they are all great, all worth a good look into, and try not to hammer each other for our choices. Personally, I like freebsd, lately Ubuntu, and solaris if I can gather $10,000 to play with sun hardware again, I would in a heart beat, as I do miss having the access to those systems. I guess I better break out my sparc V work station lol,, its prolly got a pound of dust on it. ;) what you think? OpenSolaris is available for download and use on AMD/Intel. If your a real cmdline cowboy, you will enjoy the challenge. Was that exact enough? If not, that's all you will get outta me ;) Njoy, Oly Aaron Porter wrote: > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 09:57:14AM -0700, PR wrote: > > >> if your daring, Sun Solaris is awesome, if you can empty your cup. >> > > I'm curious... what exactly about Solaris do you find awesome? > > From jzitt at josephzitt.com Mon Apr 27 11:42:06 2009 From: jzitt at josephzitt.com (Joseph Zitt) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:42:06 -0400 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) In-Reply-To: <49F5E3EA.9070609@charter.net> References: <49F4E875.50600@charter.net> <1240805855.3985.9.camel@mike-laptop> <49F5E3EA.9070609@charter.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:57 PM, PR wrote: > > I wonder what everyone else at BUG uses/prefers? Eeebuntu 2 on my Asus Eee 701, Ubuntu Intrepid on a VirtualbBox VM on my desktop. -- Joseph Zitt :: The Path of the Bookseller :: blog.josephzitt.com From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 12:52:44 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:52:44 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 mike posted: {{ Looking at the reply i Got, i can assure you I am not a sales man. }} Glad to hear it. The next meeting is this Thursday, 7pm at the Cafe Au Coquelet, which is located at the corner of University and Milvia. You can always see our meeting times/location on our home page: http://www.buug.org {{ I plan on coming with lots of questions and problems. about my Linux os i installed. and what os would you all recommend for people who are new to this operating system. }} I'm a newbie myself...strongly recommend ubuntu linux for your distro. {{ an example question i would have asked there would have been What laptop would be the most compatible with the most distros of linux including freebsd opensuse fedora Debian and others. }} I use a netbook, the "Asus eee pc 1000 HA" w/eeebuntu (which is ubuntu customized for netbooks)...and am very pleased. I connect it to a larger desktop lcd screen when home. As for standard laptops, there are many excellent brands...and were I in the market, I'd purchase a Dell, with ubuntu preinstalled. But if you don't mind installing Linux yourself, I'd go for a Lenovo model. Refurbished laptops can be a great deal, too. Just make sure you purchase it from a reliable company such as tigerdirect. If you try eBay, make sure the seller has a rating of more than 95% and has been doing business there for at least two years. Of course, google for "best laptops for linux" to see other opinions. Such as: http://wize.com/pc-laptops/t72309-linux In general, you want a durable machine that is i686 architecture. If new: with a good warranty and customer support. What about the components...all Linux ready? Video, wifi, hard drive, DVD, sound, durability, heat factor, etc. If it comes with Windows preinstalled, I recommend you stay with XP if possible (not Vista or 7), then repartition the Windoze section to around 35-45gb, using the rest for Linux. (You may void the warranty in doing this, however.) How's that for a start? See you this Thursday with all your questions, Mike! -- Zeke Krahlin City of the Undead From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 13:00:28 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:00:28 -0700 Subject: [buug] what everyone else at BUUG uses/prefers Message-ID: Subject: Re: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:57 PM, PR wrote: > > I wonder what everyone else at BUG uses/prefers? Asus Eee PC 1000 HA, 1.6GHz Atom CPU, 1GB RAM, 160GB HD Dual-boot Eeebuntu-NBR 2.0/XP sp3 Was considering removing windoze entirely, but decided to keep it, even when I now play my favorite windoze games via WINE. Why? In order to help newbies switching from windoze to linux, I need to keep keep familiar with my former OS. -- Zeke Krahlin City of the Undead From atporter at primate.net Mon Apr 27 13:03:11 2009 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron Porter) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:03:11 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? (microberts) In-Reply-To: <49F5F705.7000203@charter.net> References: <49F4E875.50600@charter.net> <1240805855.3985.9.camel@mike-laptop> <49F5E3EA.9070609@charter.net> <20090427170241.GF22455@primate.net> <49F5F705.7000203@charter.net> Message-ID: <20090427200311.GG22455@primate.net> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:18:45AM -0700, PR wrote: > Now, in regards to my comment, if your daring,,, i just mean that. if > your daring, give the system a try. Using your own level of skill give > the systems like Rand Corporation, and Toyota in Torrance DC uses. If > you have access to very high end servers, and various other sun devices, > check it out, and see for yourself. > > NOw if you level is not on which I described, then the system is just > like the others, actually harder to use than most free os. However, if > your level is above average and you do have access, you will notice the > differences on your own - of course setting all networking devices as > side, I am speaking only of the OS. After having suffered with Sun for 14 years, it's been very refreshing to be in a Linux only (Debian) environment. Jumpstart is a huge pain compared to Debian Preseeding, RedHat Kickstart, Debian FAI, etc. Five years ago we got a 20x speed improvment going from SparcIII to Opteron -- meaning a single PC was kicking the pants off our Sun v6800. While it was pretty sweet to get 96gb of ram into a v1280 or v1290 that's easily done with a cheap-o supermicro board these days too and Nehalem is promising 2TB on x86_64 hardware. Insanity. Looking at large-ish solaris installs (number of hosts) and the tools provided by Sun to handle them makes me thank my lucky stars yet agian for Debian. It'll be very interesting if Ian Murdock survives the Oracle aquisition -- his goals for OpenSolaris show promise to make a usable platform out of a respected kernel. From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Apr 27 15:56:53 2009 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:56:53 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? In-Reply-To: <1240714541.11539.7.camel@debian.Belkin> References: <1240714541.11539.7.camel@debian.Belkin> Message-ID: <20090427225652.GL16538@linuxmafia.com> Quoting microberts (microberts at com-techs.net): > i would like to speak to live people about linux issues tip and tricks > when and where? Modest suggestion to our esteemed listadmin: Please modify the listinfo page... > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug ...to include a hyperlink to http://www.buug.org/ . Thanks! (To be very specific, Mr. Listadmin: Please use your listadmin password to visit http://www.weak.org/mailman/admin/volunteers/general , and modify the field with identifier "An introductory description - a few paragraphs - about the list...." You can and should use an href HTML tag.) From jammer at weak.org Mon Apr 27 17:09:46 2009 From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:09:46 -0700 Subject: [buug] when is the next meeting? In-Reply-To: <20090427225652.GL16538@linuxmafia.com> References: <1240714541.11539.7.camel@debian.Belkin> <20090427225652.GL16538@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20090428000946.GZ13260@weak.org> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 03:56:53PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Modest suggestion to our esteemed listadmin: Please modify the listinfo > page... > > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > ...to include a hyperlink to http://www.buug.org/ . Thanks! Done. > (To be very specific, Mr. Listadmin: Please use your listadmin password > to visit http://www.weak.org/mailman/admin/volunteers/general , and > modify the field with identifier "An introductory description - a few > paragraphs - about the list...." You can and should use an href HTML > tag.) Hah. Specificity appreciated, but not necessary. :) -Jon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From itz at buug.org Tue Apr 28 08:06:06 2009 From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 08:06:06 -0700 Subject: [buug] Firefox/Iceweasel focus woes Message-ID: <87fxfs7r8h.fsf@matica.localdomain> How often do you try to scroll a page with Up, Down, PageUp or PageDown just to find that the focus is either in a form widget, or worse, in some chrome element that doesn't even draw a visible focus indicator? So you have to reach for the rodent, cursing? [1] Any solution for this? A solution need not be of the technology kind; it could be a process or discipline to make sure I don't end up in this situation, i.e. the page keeps focus at all times. OTOH, as an example of a non-solution, consider http://tinyurl.com/c2gz92 [1] In theory, hitting Tab enough times will eventually put the focus on the page. But if the focus is on a form widget in the middle of the page and there are many such widgets, "enough" may be "too many". And don't even get me started about focus on chrome, in that case I don't even know hown many is enough. Argh! -- Ian Zimmerman gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5 BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD Ham is for reading, not for eating. From rubinson at u.arizona.edu Tue Apr 28 09:51:52 2009 From: rubinson at u.arizona.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 09:51:52 -0700 Subject: [buug] Firefox/Iceweasel focus woes In-Reply-To: <87fxfs7r8h.fsf@matica.localdomain> References: <87fxfs7r8h.fsf@matica.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090428165152.GA31982@wagner> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:06:06AM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > Any solution for this? A solution need not be of the technology kind; > it could be a process or discipline to make sure I don't end up in this > situation, i.e. the page keeps focus at all times. I have the following in my .fvwm2rc: Style * FocusFollowsIntent Unfortunately, it doesn't work. Claude From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 13:42:34 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:42:34 -0700 Subject: [buug] Firefox/Iceweasel focus woes Message-ID: On the semi-cloudy/sunny day of Tue, 28 Apr 2009 Ian Zimmerman posted: {{ How often do you try to scroll a page with Up, Down, PageUp or PageDown just to find that the focus is either in a form widget, or worse, in some chrome element that doesn't even draw a visible focus indicator? So you have to reach for the rodent, cursing? }} My deity, the whole planet's going to Hades in a spaghetti-loop handbasket, and that's all that bothers you? Well then, try this on for size: Using Firefox 3.09: not only is there no cursor focus on the address bar upon loading, but when I do click on that bar, it doesn't immediately select the entire URL...I actually have to click and drag the cursor across, and then (and only then) can I proceed to copy! Arrrgh! -- Zeke Krahlin City of the Undead From kwgoodman at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 13:53:40 2009 From: kwgoodman at gmail.com (Keith Goodman) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:53:40 -0700 Subject: [buug] Firefox/Iceweasel focus woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Pewter Bot wrote: > Using Firefox 3.09: not only is there no cursor focus on the address > bar upon loading, but when I do click on that bar, it doesn't > immediately select the entire URL...I actually have to click and drag > the cursor across, and then (and only then) can I proceed to copy! > Arrrgh! Try double clicking the url. That should select it. From pewterbot9 at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 14:26:28 2009 From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:26:28 -0700 Subject: [buug] Firefox/Iceweasel focus woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Keith Goodman wrote: > Try double clicking the url. That should select it. OMG it does, thanks! I was ready to jump back to windoze before your intervention. :D NOT! -- Zeke Krahlin City of the Undead From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Tue Apr 28 17:28:30 2009 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:28:30 -0700 Subject: [buug] fvwm focus (was: Re: Firefox/Iceweasel focus woes) In-Reply-To: <20090428165152.GA31982@wagner> References: <87fxfs7r8h.fsf@matica.localdomain> <20090428165152.GA31982@wagner> Message-ID: <20090428172830.16903axqiuxj3gu8@webmail.rawbw.com> Quoting "Claude Rubinson" : > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:06:06AM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote: >> Any solution for this? A solution need not be of the technology kind; >> it could be a process or discipline to make sure I don't end up in this >> situation, i.e. the page keeps focus at all times. > > I have the following in my .fvwm2rc: > > Style * FocusFollowsIntent > > Unfortunately, it doesn't work. Hmmm, pretty sure I got that to work as I intended it, ... but with slightly older configuration I think it may be a hair more verbose: $ cd ~/.fvwm $ grep -i '^style.*focus' config Style * FocusFollowsMouse Style FvwmButtons Icon toolbox.xpm, ClickToFocus Style XTerm Icon xterm.xpm, SloppyFocus, IconBox -70 1 -1 -140 Style rxvt Icon term.xpm, SloppyFocus, IconBox -70 1 -1 -140 Style *lock NoTitle, NoHandles, Sticky, WindowListSkip, ClickToFocus Style xbiff NoTitle, Sticky, WindowListSkip, ClickToFocus Style xcalc Icon xcalc.xpm, NoButton 2,ClickToFocus Style xman Icon xman.xpm, ClickToFocus Style xmag Icon mag_glass.xpm, ClickToFocus Style xgraph Icon graphs.xpm, ClickToFocus Style xmosaic Color Green/Yellow, ClickToFocus $ fgrep mytweaks config read mytweaks $ grep -i '^style.*focus' mytweaks Style XTerm Icon xterm.xpm, MouseFocus, IconBox -70 1 -1 -140 Style rxvt Icon term.xpm, MouseFocus, IconBox -70 1 -1 -140 Style *lock NoTitle, NoHandles, Sticky, ClickToFocus $ From itz at buug.org Tue Apr 28 19:09:29 2009 From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:09:29 -0700 Subject: [buug] fvwm focus In-Reply-To: <20090428172830.16903axqiuxj3gu8@webmail.rawbw.com> (Michael Paoli's message of "Tue\, 28 Apr 2009 17\:28\:30 -0700") References: <87fxfs7r8h.fsf@matica.localdomain> <20090428165152.GA31982@wagner> <20090428172830.16903axqiuxj3gu8@webmail.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <877i142oti.fsf@matica.localdomain> Michael> Quoting "Claude Rubinson" : Michael> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:06:06AM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote: Michael> Any solution for this? A solution need not be of the Michael> technology kind; it could be a process or discipline to make Michael> sure I don't end up in this situation, i.e. the page keeps Michael> focus at all times. Michael> Michael> I have the following in my .fvwm2rc: Michael> Michael> Style * FocusFollowsIntent Michael> Michael> Unfortunately, it doesn't work. Michael> Hmmm, pretty sure I got that to work as I intended it, ... but Michael> with slightly older configuration I think it may be a hair more Michael> verbose: I think window manager configuration is tangential here. WM's only know about toplevel windows; focus as applied to widgets inside windows is managed by the toolkit linked into each app (such as gtk, motif, or in the case of firefox, xul?). And my problem falls squarely into the latter category. BTW, Claude, what happened to your fondness for blackbox? -- Ian Zimmerman gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5 BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD Ham is for reading, not for eating. From rubinson at u.arizona.edu Wed Apr 29 10:54:16 2009 From: rubinson at u.arizona.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:54:16 -0700 Subject: [buug] fvwm focus In-Reply-To: <877i142oti.fsf@matica.localdomain> References: <87fxfs7r8h.fsf@matica.localdomain> <20090428165152.GA31982@wagner> <20090428172830.16903axqiuxj3gu8@webmail.rawbw.com> <877i142oti.fsf@matica.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090429175416.GZ5350@wagner> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 07:09:29PM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > BTW, Claude, what happened to your fondness for blackbox? I switched back to fvwm a number of years ago and have since been faithful. Particularly as the web has become more pervasive, invasive, and annoying, I've found fvwm's flexibility to be all the more valuable. (E.g., Jstor, an online archive of academic journals, started popping up a click-through copyright notice each time you open/download an article. My fvwm now recognizes this popups and automatically sends a click even to accept.) As to your actual focus issue, Ian, I don't really have any solutions and run into the same problem all the time. I work off of a Thinkpad and stretching for the eraserhead is less annoying than reaching for a mouse (for me at least; I know that some people can't stand it). One thing that I've tried a few times is Conkeror, an emacs-inspired fork of Firefox. It's not bad and is completely keyboard driven. (which is one of the things that keeps me coming back to Firefox; for much of the web, point and click is appropriate). But I think that it might avoid those focus issues. You might want to take a look at it. Claude From rubinson at u.arizona.edu Wed Apr 29 11:00:23 2009 From: rubinson at u.arizona.edu (Claude Rubinson) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:00:23 -0700 Subject: [buug] fvwm focus (was: Re: Firefox/Iceweasel focus woes) In-Reply-To: <20090428172830.16903axqiuxj3gu8@webmail.rawbw.com> References: <87fxfs7r8h.fsf@matica.localdomain> <20090428165152.GA31982@wagner> <20090428172830.16903axqiuxj3gu8@webmail.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <20090429180023.GA5350@wagner> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 05:28:30PM -0700, Michael Paoli wrote: > Quoting "Claude Rubinson" : > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:06:06AM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > >> Any solution for this? A solution need not be of the technology kind; > >> it could be a process or discipline to make sure I don't end up in this > >> situation, i.e. the page keeps focus at all times. > > > > I have the following in my .fvwm2rc: > > > > Style * FocusFollowsIntent > > > > Unfortunately, it doesn't work. > > Hmmm, pretty sure I got that to work as I intended it, ... but > with slightly older configuration I think it may be a hair more > verbose: Guess I should have included a smiley along with the email... "FocusFollowsIntent" is an old joke picked up from BUUG many years ago. C. From itz at buug.org Wed Apr 29 20:45:19 2009 From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:45:19 -0700 Subject: [buug] fvwm focus In-Reply-To: <20090429180023.GA5350@wagner> (Claude Rubinson's message of "Wed\, 29 Apr 2009 11\:00\:23 -0700") References: <87fxfs7r8h.fsf@matica.localdomain> <20090428165152.GA31982@wagner> <20090428172830.16903axqiuxj3gu8@webmail.rawbw.com> <20090429180023.GA5350@wagner> Message-ID: <87ocuex0s0.fsf@matica.localdomain> Claude> "FocusFollowsIntent" is an old joke picked up from BUUG many Claude> years ago. Ahh, your original reply makes much more sense now :) -- Ian Zimmerman gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5 BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD Ham is for reading, not for eating. From john_re at fastmail.us Thu Apr 30 03:08:03 2009 From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 03:08:03 -0700 Subject: [buug] Saturday May 2 - Global Linux Conference via VOIP - BerkeleyTIP - 21 Videos - For forwarding Message-ID: <1241086083.14059.1313070145@webmail.messagingengine.com> Join with the friendly productive Global FreeSW HW & Culture community, in the TWICE monthly, Voice over internet Global Conference: BerkeleyTIP-Global: GNU(Linux), BSD, & All Free SW, HW, & Culture TIP = Talks, Installfest, Project/Programming Party Educational, Productive, Social. http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/ ===== TWO meetings each month: 1st Saturday - May 2 3rd Sunday - May 17 10AM-6PM Pacific (GMT -8H) time, = 1P - 9P Eastern = 6PM - 2AM (Saturday to Sunday) GMT Join in as short or long as you like. http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/schedule ===== Join the Global BerkeleyTIP mailing list http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal Say "Hi" & your interests & where you're from. ===== LOCATION - ONLINE, IN YOUR AREA, OR AT U. California Berkeley Voice over Internet (VOIP) info: http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/directions Local meetings outside Berkeley - Alpha test: Someone might try to connect from UCLA, SanJose State or SanFran State. You are invited to join the tests by attending there. For details, read the BT-Global mailing list. ======================================================================= ===== NEW VIDEOS for 2009 May: Saturday 2nd , & Sunday 17th 21 Videos/Talks this month. ~5 are short - 1-10 minutes. Ubuntu 9.04 Just out - Jaunty Jackalope, Mark Shuttleworth Overview of Ext4, Theodore Tso Python 2.6 & 3.0 Compatibility, from PyCon 2009 The Linux Framebuffer, Heather Stern Free Culture: One Laptop Per Child, NPR/PRI Free Culture: Akamai, For streaming TED video over the internet Development on the OpenMoko with hackable, Pierre Pronchery State of the X window, Keith Packard & Barton Massey Diversity in KDE, Till Adam and Adriaan deGroot Voice over Internet Protocol (VOIP) using Asterisk, Sameer Verma == The 2009 Linux Foundation Collaborative Summit: Tux's Superpowers - If Tux were a superhero, what powers would he have? When did you hear about Linux for the First Time? Linux Foundation "We're Linux" Contest winners == BSD CON DC 2009: Faster Packets: Performance tuning in OpenBSD networks Henning Brauer Network Perimeter Redundancy with pfsense, Chris Buechler Network Security Monitoring Using FreeBSD, Richard Bejtlich Process Isolation for NetBSD and OpenBSD, Kristaps Dzonsons OpenBSD vs SMP, Threading, and Concurrency, Ted Unangst Isolating Cluster Jobs for Performance and Predictability, Brooks Davis == Debconf 2008 Healthy CDDs Strategies for building a Custom Deb Distro, Andreas Tille Packaging with version control systems, martin f. krafft Thanks to all the speakers, videographers, & organizations. :) Please excuse if I mistyped names. <8-0 I hereby invite the speakers to attend BTIP for Q&A & discussion. Please notify the speakers if you know how to contact them, thanks. :) Download the videos & watch them before or during the meeting. Join online during the relevant topic hour to discuss each video. See longer talk descriptions, & download URLs, here: http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos ======================================================================= ===== YOU GIVE A 5 MINUTE LIGHTNING TALK 4 PM. Let us know in advance what you'd like to talk about. :) ===== SCHEDULE / AGENDA 10AM - 6PM Pacific time (= GMT - 8 Hours) TIME TOPIC / ACTIVITY 10 A Set up. Get on IRC & VOIP 11 A INSTALLFEST begins; PROJECT/PROGRAMMING PARTY begins: Group ProgP: VOIP Conference client/server - Ekiga & Asterisk 12 N OLPC; Games; Education; Database; Business 1 P Sys/Net Admin; GUI: KDE & GNOME 2 P Free Culture - Wikipedia, CreativeCommons, etc.; Law; GNU 3 P Distros: Debian, Ubuntu, BSD, etc.; Science & Engineering; Programming Languages 4 P LIGHTNING TALKS; Hardware- Ex: OpenMoko Phone; Bio/Medicine/Health 5 P Art/Literature/Music/Humanities; Internet/Website; Local meetings arrangements ===== Voice/VOIP CONFERENCE MEETING TECHNOLOGY Join in on IRC, & we'll help you get on VOIP. :) IRC: #BerkeleyTIP, irc.freenode.net Hardware: VOIP Headset- (USB recommended for echo cancellation?) Software: Ekiga(GnomeMeeting) recommended. SIP VOIP server: Ekiga.net http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance ===== PROJECT / PROGRAMMING PARTY Work on your own project, or the group project. Share details of your project on IRC, VOIP & the mailing list. Invite others to join in your project. Or, work on the group project - Learning about & Improving Ekiga, Asterisk, & our VOIP conference system/technology. ===== THANKS, HOPE YOU JOIN; FOR FORWARDING Mark you calendar: May 2 Saturday, May 19 Sunday I hope you join in the meeting. :) Join by yourself, or invite your friends over & have a party. Have a party at your home, or at a local to you location - a WiFi cafe, or at a college or university is a great place for a meeting. :) You are invited to forward this message wherever appropriate - Ex: perhaps your local meeting group (LUG, etc). From webenton at hotmail.com Thu Apr 30 09:51:01 2009 From: webenton at hotmail.com (william benton) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:51:01 +0000 Subject: [buug] (no subject) Message-ID: If I want to put a unix os on a pc(not linux), is a unix os(not linux) available as freeware? what is the best source? Is berkeley unix available as freeware? Is BSD berkeley unix? I mean is it exactly like what you would get if you went to the university and logged on to their machine? thanks _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_042009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atporter at primate.net Thu Apr 30 10:01:48 2009 From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron Porter) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:01:48 -0700 Subject: [buug] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090430170148.GA8264@primate.net> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 04:51:01PM +0000, william benton wrote: > If I want to put a unix os on a pc(not linux), is a unix os(not linux) > available as freeware? what is the best source? Is berkeley unix available > as freeware? Is BSD berkeley unix? I mean is it exactly like what you > would get if you went to the university and logged on to their machine? Just a wild guess, but based on the... creative concept of what BSD is, I'd point you at PC BSD: http://www.pcbsd.org/ If you went to Berkeley.edu and logged on, chances are you'd land on Linux, OSX or Windows -- just like every other large scale install these days. BSD systems while widely deployed are still a rarity. From togo at of.net Thu Apr 30 10:42:28 2009 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:42:28 -0700 Subject: [buug] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20090430170148.GA8264@primate.net> References: <20090430170148.GA8264@primate.net> Message-ID: <3424dc900904301042t53e96e1fn3e32a6f87044a70b@mail.gmail.com> If you want something other than a wild guess, you might read this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD#Significant_BSD_descendants Best Regards. Please keep in touch. This is unedited. P-) On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Aaron Porter wrote: > On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 04:51:01PM +0000, william benton wrote: >> ? ?If I want to put a unix os on a pc(not linux), is a unix os(not linux) >> ? ?available as freeware? what is the best source? Is berkeley unix available >> ? ?as freeware? Is BSD berkeley unix? I mean is it exactly like what you >> ? ?would get if you went to the university and logged on to their machine? > > ? ? ? ?Just a wild guess, but based on the... creative concept of what > BSD is, I'd point you at PC BSD: http://www.pcbsd.org/ > > ? ? ? ?If you went to Berkeley.edu and logged on, chances are you'd land > on Linux, OSX or Windows -- just like every other large scale install > these days. BSD systems while widely deployed are still a rarity. > _______________________________________________ > Buug mailing list > Buug at weak.org > http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug > From togo at of.net Thu Apr 30 10:57:07 2009 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:57:07 -0700 Subject: [buug] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3424dc900904301042t53e96e1fn3e32a6f87044a70b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090430170148.GA8264@primate.net> <3424dc900904301042t53e96e1fn3e32a6f87044a70b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3424dc900904301057l2610cbd8s8164ea4beeea2601@mail.gmail.com> [the WB wrote] >>> If I want to put a unix os on a pc(not linux), is a unix os(not linux) >>> available as freeware? what is the best source? Is berkeley unix available >>> as freeware? Is BSD berkeley unix? I mean is it exactly like what you >>> would get if you went to the university and logged on to their machine? ... [I wrote] > If you want something other than a wild guess, you might read this... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD#Significant_BSD_descendants ... And here's a chart of what variants are most popular as of 2005... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_BSD_operating_systems#Popularity Note that BSD (and Linux) are not actually Unix(TM) in that the proprietary code that was written under that trademarked name was all replaced (in the BSD case) or never there (in the Linux case). Anyone out there in BUUG-land actually know for a fact what is used at U.C. Berkeley? I assume it varies by department. What are you actually interested in, William, computer science? General computer labs? Engineering labs? (I hear computer labs in universities are closing now that everyone has their own computers) Also, what aspect are you looking at when you talk about Unix and not-Linux? Is it really kernel aspects (where BSD and Linux differ in their nature) or userland aspects (the SYSV-like and GNU style of Linux (e.g. "ps -ef") vs. the BSD style (e.g. "ps aux") And, hey, if you want Real(tm) Not-Linux(tm) Unix(tm) you could always go deal with the likes of SCO and Novell (cough cough)... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix#2000_to_present Best Regards. Please keep in touch. This is unedited. P-) From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 30 12:48:16 2009 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:48:16 -0700 Subject: [buug] UNIX (R), etc. In-Reply-To: <3424dc900904301057l2610cbd8s8164ea4beeea2601@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090430170148.GA8264@primate.net> <3424dc900904301042t53e96e1fn3e32a6f87044a70b@mail.gmail.com> <3424dc900904301057l2610cbd8s8164ea4beeea2601@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090430124816.21562n52j8i62wsg@webmail.rawbw.com> Quoting "Tony Godshall" : > Note that BSD (and Linux) are not actually Unix(TM) in that the > proprietary code that was written under that trademarked name was all > replaced (in the BSD case) or never there (in the Linux case). Once upon a time, what was UNIX(TM)/(R) was a particular set of code, or authorized derivative code. That was quite a while ago. One of the (relatively) good things that came out of the "UNIX Wars" was that UNIX (R) is not dependent upon a particular source code set or derivation thereof, but rather conformance to specifications and, for the right to carry the UNIX(R) registered trademark, passage of certification tests (submission to the tests for certification and branding is not free, though the standards upon which the tests are based are available for free (as in beer, not freedom)). references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_wars http://www.unix.org/ http://www.unix.org/what_is_unix.html