From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sun Mar  1 05:38:55 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 05:38:55 -0800
Subject: [buug] Fwd: ... & 2009-03-01 (TODAY!) Berkeley: OpenStreetMap
	Mapping	Party
Message-ID: <20090301053855.10293agz7qx8fdwk@webmail.rawbw.com>

I don't think this made it at all to the BUUG (http://www.buug.org/)
list earlier, nevertheless, for yesterday :-/ (okay, I just read it) and
TODAY! :-) ...:

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:39:05 -0800
From: Sarah Manley <sarah at cloudmade.com>
Subject: [sf-lug] In case you can't make it to the PenLug,	join OSM in
	Berkeley this weekend!
To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com

Dear All,

I just wanted to send a quick reminder that I will be hosting a
mapping party this weekend in Berkeley. Details:  
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Berkeley_Mapping_Party_Feb2009

I will also be hosting a geo-focused happy hour next week in SF.
Details: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappy_Hour_Bay_Area

Best,
Sarah

PS: If you are on multiple bay area lug lists, sorry if you see this a
couple of times.


Sarah Manley
Sarah at cloudmade.com
Cell: 631-338-3815
Skype: Sarah_cloudmade
Twitter: SarahManley



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Mar  2 12:21:14 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:21:14 -0800
Subject: [buug] Fwd: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter --
	March 2009
Message-ID: <20090302122114.161015r98xoatm7w@webmail.rawbw.com>

Forwarded (slightly redacted):

----- Forwarded message from usergroups at informit.com -----
     Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:43:50 -0500
     From: "InformIT User Groups" <usergroups at informit.com>
Reply-To: "InformIT User Groups" <usergroups at informit.com>
  Subject: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter -- March 2009
       To: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu

Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter
Issue 14 -- March 2009

Thank you for reading the Pearson Education User Group Program monthly
newsletter for official group members. Please pass this along to your
colleagues and share our news and offers.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


News & Announcements

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------------

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-----------------------------------------------------------------


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-----------------------------------------------------------------

== User Groups of the Month ==

New Jersey: NJFlex hosts monthly events for Flex/AIR developers,
Actionscript 3.0 programmers, and anyone interested in discussing
RIA development. The group's goal is to provide fun training events
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http://www.charlottecug.org/cm/.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

== Authors and Events: March ==

March 7 -- Roanoke Code Camp
The Roanoke Valley .NET User Group (RV.NUG), with support from  
Microsoft and the International .NET Association (INETA), is hosting  
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	The Facebook Era: http://www.informit.com/title/0137152221

Have a User Group event in your area? Let us know!
E-mail details to usergroups at informit.com for consideration in next month's
newsletter. Please include "User Group Event" in the subject line.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

== User Group Offers ==
www.informit.com/usergroupwelcome


Save 40% on select Microsoft titles
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------------

Join the Conversation -- InformIT Product Review Team
InformIT has an opportunity for you to join an exclusive team of reviewers
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------------

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Offer Details: Not valid with any other offer. Coupon is good for a
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------------

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See a complete list of links to Pearson pages at
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Join and follow us today!

------------

Questions?
Please contact usergroups at informit.com and include your user group name,
relevant topic area, and type of inquiry in the subject line (for example:
"Southern California Cisco Users Group ? Networking").

-----------------------------------------------------------------

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&copy; 2009 Pearson Education. All rights reserved.

<a  
href="http://informit.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?<redacted>">Unsubscribe</a>

----- End forwarded message -----




From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 13:27:25 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:27:25 -0800
Subject: [buug] Linux tips every geek should know
Message-ID: <a86954420903021327o6854c9c1k29685ff728d76521@mail.gmail.com>

Over 50 of 'em...niiiii-iiiice!

http://tuxradar.com/content/linux-tips-every-geek-should-know

(Tuxradar.com, home page, great resource overall.)

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.youtube.com/user/pewterbot9


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 16:41:18 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:41:18 -0800
Subject: [buug] Linux tips every geek should know
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903021633k832c5eet8b2467ea04d53751@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903021327o6854c9c1k29685ff728d76521@mail.gmail.com>
	<e86696200903021402y2cc76573q824091b7bcf70364@mail.gmail.com>
	<a86954420903021633k832c5eet8b2467ea04d53751@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a86954420903021641t148487e2w97a3a7f2fb2a8a37@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Alex Birch <abirch at gmail.com> wrote:

{{ To be truthful, after they didn't use sed for #2, instead opting
for perl to search and replace text in multiple files I lost a bit of
faith. }}

I'm too much the newbie to know better. ?Sorry!


--
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.youtube.com/user/pewterbot9



From jb at caustic.org  Mon Mar  2 17:03:30 2009
From: jb at caustic.org (Johan Beisser)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 17:03:30 -0800
Subject: [buug] Linux tips every geek should know
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903021641t148487e2w97a3a7f2fb2a8a37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903021327o6854c9c1k29685ff728d76521@mail.gmail.com>
	<e86696200903021402y2cc76573q824091b7bcf70364@mail.gmail.com>
	<a86954420903021633k832c5eet8b2467ea04d53751@mail.gmail.com>
	<a86954420903021641t148487e2w97a3a7f2fb2a8a37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <32393800903021703n6d09482bsf00622a23a38dd58@mail.gmail.com>

I stopped reading after that as well.

sed/awk are both extremely useful little CLI tools.

On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Pewter Bot <pewterbot9 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 2:02 PM, Alex Birch <abirch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> {{ To be truthful, after they didn't use sed for #2, instead opting
> for perl to search and replace text in multiple files I lost a bit of
> faith. }}
>
> I'm too much the newbie to know better. ?Sorry!
>
>
> --
> Zeke Krahlin
> http://www.youtube.com/user/pewterbot9
>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>



From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  4 03:17:12 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 03:17:12 -0800
Subject: [buug] Best javascript tutorial ever
Message-ID: <a86954420903040317k5ef95b7byefb5757ae5dc5fc9@mail.gmail.com>

JavaScript:  A Brief Tutorial
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/javascript.html

One of the best brief tutorials ever, of ANY programming language (or
one that feigns to be)!

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.youtube.com/user/pewterbot9


From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Mar  4 05:03:22 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 05:03:22 -0800
Subject: [buug] Global Unix Meeting March 7 Sat BerkeleyTIP -Global - For
	Forwarding
Message-ID: <1236171802.24464.1303576303@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Ekiga(Gnome meeting), Asterisk, Xen, Virtualbox, Debian 15 Years, Free
and Open Future, Amarok, ZFS, FreeBSD, Python, OLPC


=====  SCHEDULE
Schedule: All times Pacific Std Time = GMT -8H 
             ex: 10A PST = 1P Eastern ST
10 A    Begin:  Set up.  Get on IRC & VOIP
11 A    Ekiga3 talk LIVE
        INSTALLFEST begin
12 N    Asterisk, OLPC;
        PROGRAMMING PARTY: VOIP Conference client & server
 1 P    Xen, Virtualbox; GNOME
 2 P    KDE ? GUI; Macintosh
 3 P    Debian; BSD; College & University groups
 4 P    Free & Open Future; Culture; Hardware
 5 P    LIGHTNING TALKS
        Python; INetWebDev; Local Simultaneous Meetings Arrangements


=====  PHYSICAL LOCATION: UC Berkeley FREE SPEECH CAFE
At Moffitt Undergrad Library.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=37.872558,-122.260795&spn=0.001776,0.002529&z=19
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/directions
BART: Berkeley Downtown Station.
Caltrain: Berkeley Station, bus up University to campus.
Car: 880 Freeway, University Exit.

=====  IRC & VOIP
Join IRC freenode.net #berkeleytip, & we'll help you get on VOIP
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance


===== Come to the: Great global meeting planned for this Saturday!  :)

Yes!  You can join in with the friendly global BTIP people - get a
headset & join the VOIP conference, from home, or wherever.  Hey -
invite your friends over & you can haz parte.  ;)

Be the first in your state - or country - to join in.  Since Chaitanya
joined from India in February, we have now officially moved up to
global.  :)

BerkeleyTIP - Global Monthly GNU(Linux), BSD & All Free SW HW & Culture
meeting.
Talks, Installfest, Potluck & ProgrammingParty
Educational, Productive, Social
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/


=====  TALKS:  11A LIVE, - DOWNLOAD & WATCH VIDEOS BEFORE
Ekiga 3 on KUbuntu 8.04 - Chaitanya Mehandru, LIVE 11AM PST = GMT -8H
Asterisk Free Software Telephone System - Paul Charles Leddy, NYLUG-08
Xen Virtualization - Ian Pratt, FOSDEM-08
Virtualbox, Achim Hasenmueller, FOSDEM-08
Debian, Bdale Garbee, FOSDEM-09
Free and Open Future - Mark Surman, FOSDEM-09
Amarok v2 - Akademy-08
Debian: 15 Years and Counting - Steve McIntyre, Debconf-08 - Keynote
ZFS for FreeBSD - Pawel Jakub Dawidek, MeetBSD-08
Python on the OLPC laptop -  Ed Cherlin, BayPIGgies-08

Links to the videos & more info here:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos
Suggestion:  Download & watch the videos _you_ are interested in
_before_ the meeting, so you can spend the scheduled topic time
_discussing_ that talk.

All the talk/video speakers are invited to join in for Q&A & discussion.
[Please pass that word on to the speakers, because I probably wont have
time to notify them individually.]

Thanks to all the speakerz, videographerz, & sponsoring groupiez.  :)
& doubble plus big thanks to David Fox, r noo talk/vid finder/scheduler.
 :)

==  LIGHTNING TALKS - 5PM - Sign up anytime.


=====  PROGRAMMING PARTY:
1) Help get Ekiga 3 compiled, running & packaged for KUbuntu8.04
2) Help get a local Asterisk VOIP conference server working.
3) Whatever _you_ are interested in - Email the list inviting us to join
on your project.  :)


=====  PEOPLE ARE TALKING:
Chris said:  the meeting went very well for Feb. 7.

Windsor said:  I am interested in Jack's
idea of focusing a group on promotion of Linux as a desktop operating
system and targeting perspective Linux users. I'm enthusiastic about
doing something to this effect, like hosting an install night, standing
in Sproul Plaza near a card table, etc..

David said:  the USB headset I ordered and will
pick up at the post office tomorrow - 
Markt9 (from virtual lug) told me that it was a very nice one. I can't
wait until I get the chance to try it live.

& Windsor says: I posted some guidelines for people editing the web
page. Also, (and I'm not trying to be a kill-joy) I think the smilies
should be left in IRC and private e-mails. Every time I see one on the
site I think of myspace.com or icanhazcheeseburger.com.

john_re says: Thanks for the tipz, everyone. - I'll keep 'em in mind. 
;)

ps: & more doubbble pluz big thanks to Windsor, for the new website
design.  :)

[Someone, call the doctor, got a case of love bipolar.  Staccato, roller
coaster, can't get off this riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide.]
http://equine-ranch.com/horseinfo.php?horseid=240482


=====  JOIN THE MAILING LIST
& say "Hi", where you're from, what you're interested in, & whatever
project you invite others to join in on.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal
Click "Join this group" on the right side of the page.


=====  FLYER
- Opportunity - Put 10 up so your friends will know.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/home/March09_BTIPFlyer.odt?attredirects=0


====  FOR FORWARDING -
You are invited to forward this message anywhere appropriate.

C-ya there :)



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Mar 10 05:52:40 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 05:52:40 -0700
Subject: [buug] BALUG: Tu 2009-03-17 Jordan Gray (STARPAUSE) talk/demo on
	DJing	and Music Composition on Linux
Message-ID: <20090310055240.45011zzaosbwm2m8@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG: Tu 2009-03-17 Jordan Gray (STARPAUSE) talk/demo on DJing and  
Music Composition on Linux

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-03-17
Tu 2009-03-17 Jordan Gray (STARPAUSE) talk/demo on DJing and Music
Composition on Linux

Have you ever wanted to learn beat-mixing or electronic music
composition?  Want to get started with software that's completely free
and community-based?  Join us for an evening with STARPAUSE (a.k.a.
Jordan Gray), chiptune producer and founder of the Mp3Death[1] (Creative
Commons) netaudio label.  Jordan will cover the basics of DJing and
introduce you to the free open-source MIXXX[2] digital DJ software. Then
we'll move on to tracker-based music composition using
LittleGPTracker[3], which Jordan will demonstrate both on laptop and the
Game Park handheld. LittleGPTracker is free and designed especially for
8-bit (GameBoy-style) music.  Both software run on the free Linux
operating system (Mac and Windows also available).

1. http://mp3death.us/
2. http://www.mixxx.org/
3. http://littlegptracker.com/

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:

      rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to
eat upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

      6:30pm
      Tuesday, March 17th, 2009 2009-03-17

      Four Seas Restaurant
      731 Grant Ave.
      San Francisco, CA 94108
      Easy $5 PARKING:  Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny

Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

http://www.balug.org/

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org




From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 01:30:26 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:30:26 -0700
Subject: [buug] Ubuntu 8.10 update: connect!
Message-ID: <a86954420903120130n77bb0e20u7741d85c61f10959@mail.gmail.com>

Hey BUUGers! I have just connected to the net for the first time, via
the venerable linux distro named "Intrepid Ibex". Since I don't have
broadband at home, and no one I know where I could connect via LAN, I
needed to activate good ol' dialup in order to be online for
updating/downloading packages to complete the installation.

Ubuntu (I learned with hindsight) no longer includes built-in
dialup...so I downloaded and installed gnome-ppp. But it's kinda
glitchy, had to manually edit the settings, 'cause the gui kept
forcing "analog" on my USB modem! Still, I could only connect as root,
not as user...even though I put the correct settings in ".wvdial.conf"
and "wvdial.conf". And I did re-login as user, etc.

So I learned another method, using the "pon" command from terminal.
Some fussing around, and voila! I am now connected as user, typing
this email! In fact, I'm downloading the updated package information,
in preparation to activate multimedia files.

I guess the next thing to do, is secure my system better with a
firewall. So that's what I'll learn next.

I also think I got my Atheros wifi chip recognized by Ubuntu...it does
alert me to a list of wireless connections...none of which I can
really use, as they're all secured. So tomorrow, I will try a reall
connect from Tully's Coffeehouse on Shattuck. I understand that many
have gotten poor results with this chip, weak connections or a lot of
disconnect. Fortunately, I also have a USB wifi that works well in
Linux, has its own Linux driver, etc. So I'll look into that a little
later down the line.

Uhh, I have another problem with starting programs for the first time:
I can't get to the bottom frame, to click on things like "okay" or
"yes" or "next"...and I can't resize the frame to see it. I'll show ya
at the next meeting.

Now comes the transitioning I've been imagining for too many years:
weaning myself totally off Windoze. Gotta celebrate by getting a
penguin decal!


-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://ezekielk.tblog.com


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 12 16:09:28 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:09:28 -0700
Subject: [buug] Online Linux/Ubuntu Subscription Recommendations?
Message-ID: <a86954420903121609q5e182e12ve946618025bd998d@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in the (deliriously) happy process of unsubscribing to my Windoze
zines, such as "Windoze Secrets" and "Bob Rankin"...yippee!

So, can any BUUG member recommended a good online zine subscription
for Linux/Ubuntu newbies? (Free, of course...I'm a freebie hound:
"Woof!") TIA.

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://ezekielk.tblog.com


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 14:51:42 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:51:42 -0700
Subject: [buug] Ubuntu 8.10 update: wifi connect!
Message-ID: <a86954420903131451n742cc795mf898764b2b63970b@mail.gmail.com>

Freakin' incredible! After messing with the built-in atheros wifi, and
nothing working...I decided to now try the USB wifi adaptor I
purchased from eBay for $20. Of course, not thinking I'd get it to run
right off, considering the driver and installs it came with, would
confound me (and, I found an error that stopped the installation
cold...a simple typo that should have been "./" instead of "../").

So, I decided to go ahead anyway, and here I am right now as I type,
connected at 54mbps public wifi! All I did was plug in the adapter,
boot up in Ubuntu, and the system recognized it instantly! This is
great: now I can explore the magnificent world of Linux to my hearts
content, while continuing to pursue my online activism. Update manager
is now running at a proper clip (I was updating at 56kbps for the last
two night...did get all the multimedia codecs in less than three
hours).

So here's the eBay page for this USB wifi adapter that  works great on
my Asus Eee PC 1000HA:

http://tinyurl.com/cgm95z

There is also a youtube geek who swears by two other wifi adapters,
check it out:

Ubuntu wireless - 8.04 - what works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewaym7rbAUE

Quoting from his paqe: "Wireless without the nonsense for Ubuntu
Linux. No headaches, just working wireless - models described are the
Edimax EW-7318USG and EW-7318UG - Goto NewEgg.com for both - just use
site search. "


-- 
"A government is only as good as its operating system."
- Miighty Mouse Virus
http://www.gay-bible.org/write/3_security.htm


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 03:01:25 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 03:01:25 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
Message-ID: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>

I know about Wine, but never used it. Here is a page that lists
additional Windoze emulators:

http://www.freebyte.com/operatingsystems/#emulators

I'm interested in an XP emulator for Ubuntu 8.10, that works well with
unsupported peripherals, such as scanners and printers. Is the ol'
standard Wine best for that, or some other? Here's a list of free
Windoze emulators, on that page:

Bochs
VirtualBox
Wine

Is one emulator perhaps better at handling unsupported drivers, than
the other two? TIA.

Or would NDIS wrapper be the better solution? I have been advised by
hackers-in-the-know, to avoid that program like a plague...not for
newbies.

(Posting to you from Linux via wvdial...yaaay! I like it better than
pon, 'cause it displays your connect speed...I prefer to disconnect
and try another local number, if the connect just made is lower than
42kbps.)

-- 
Zeke Krahlin


From itz at buug.org  Sun Mar 15 09:34:53 2009
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:34:53 -0700
Subject: [buug] Ubuntu 8.10 update: wifi connect!
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903131451n742cc795mf898764b2b63970b@mail.gmail.com>
	(Pewter Bot's message of "Fri\, 13 Mar 2009 14\:51\:42 -0700")
References: <a86954420903131451n742cc795mf898764b2b63970b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87zlfmrbgy.fsf@matica.localdomain>


Pewter> Quoting from his paqe: "Wireless without the nonsense for Ubuntu
Pewter> Linux. No headaches, just working wireless - models described
Pewter> are the Edimax EW-7318USG and EW-7318UG - Goto NewEgg.com for
Pewter> both - just use site search. "

Those are the adapters I have been using, after some frustration of my own
with atheros (though I was able to use atheros with the madwifi driver, the
problem being madwifi is out-of-tree and got out of sync with the kernel).

The Edimax cards work just fine with the rt2x series of drivers, which
have been in the kernel tree for a while.

i

-- 
Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org>
gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD 
fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5  BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD
Ham is for reading, not for eating.


From itz at buug.org  Sun Mar 15 09:38:35 2009
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:38:35 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
	(Pewter Bot's message of "Sat\, 14 Mar 2009 03\:01\:25 -0700")
References: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87vdqarbas.fsf@matica.localdomain>


Pewter> I'm interested in an XP emulator for Ubuntu 8.10, that works
Pewter> well with unsupported peripherals, such as scanners and
Pewter> printers.

What scanner and printer do you mean?  Are you really sure they don't
work natively?

-- 
Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org>
gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD 
fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5  BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD
Ham is for reading, not for eating.


From itz at buug.org  Sun Mar 15 13:56:01 2009
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:56:01 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903151333o593a7339k731294515c09e61@mail.gmail.com>
	(Pewter Bot's message of "Sun\, 15 Mar 2009 13\:33\:26 -0700")
References: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
	<87vdqarbas.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<a86954420903151333o593a7339k731294515c09e61@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <873adepkta.fsf@matica.localdomain>


Pewter> Actually, I haven't even begun to look into this, as they are
Pewter> not used except occasionally...and there's so much to learn, and
Pewter> I don't want to move so fast I break the system.  :o Allow me to
Pewter> look those models up, and see...and get back to you in a few
Pewter> more days.

In my humble opinion, any windoze emulator that works on sufficiently
low level to deal with device drivers will be far more dangerous than
a native driver, even a broken one.

BTW: When I post in the list, I expect replies to go there as well,
unless the reply is off-topic.

-- 
Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org>
gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD 
fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5  BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD
Ham is for reading, not for eating.


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 15 14:49:59 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:49:59 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <873adepkta.fsf@matica.localdomain>
References: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
	<87vdqarbas.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<a86954420903151333o593a7339k731294515c09e61@mail.gmail.com>
	<873adepkta.fsf@matica.localdomain>
Message-ID: <a86954420903151449t55f58730n94a8502430a5df84@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/15/09, Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org> wrote:

> In my humble opinion, any windoze emulator that works on sufficiently
> low level to deal with device drivers will be far more dangerous than
> a native driver, even a broken one.

I see! Emulators are best used for running Windoze programs, not
driver compatibility. (I only beginning to learn how to even ask the
right questions!)

Just checked up on my scanner and printer compatibility, good news on
both fronts:

My Canoscan LiDE 20 is not even on the SANE Supported Scanners list of
Canon models:
http://www.sane-project.org/cgi-bin/driver.pl?manu=canon&model=&bus=usb&v=&p=

But a search for "Canoscan LiDE 20 Linux" brought me here:

http://www.epinions.com/review/pr-Canon_LIDE20_Flatbed_Scanner/content_208581398148

Quote: "This scanner is compatible with Linux. It "just works" through
SANE, no special drivers needed."

To back up that claim, this from a linux site:
http://pclinuxoshwdb.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=48

So I got lucky. But why doesn't SANE list that model as compatible?
(Doesn't sound very "sane" to me!)

My Lexmark Z645 printer also is compatible, I just found out:

http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Lexmark-z645

But since it's been so flaky with ink usage, it's a big waste of money
and time, so I won't be using it anymore...I don't need to print much,
anywayz. Just for the sake of learning, however, I'll set it up in
Linux, then remove it later.

Thanks, Ian.


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 15 17:35:04 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:35:04 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <e86696200903151610v6848c860of811a976db01431f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
	<87vdqarbas.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<a86954420903151333o593a7339k731294515c09e61@mail.gmail.com>
	<873adepkta.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<a86954420903151449t55f58730n94a8502430a5df84@mail.gmail.com>
	<e86696200903151610v6848c860of811a976db01431f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a86954420903151735o1f26e051s85dd6e4a6a412f9@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Alex Birch <abirch at gmail.com> wrote:
> For my job, much of my work is done for windows. I use virtualbox (the non
> open source version) so that I can pass USB ports (cameras in my case)
> directly into Windows XP.

I found Virtual Box OSE on my Ubuntu system! It just wasn't tagged to
show up in the Applications menu.

So I gath re. emulation, is that running a windoze program that hooks
to a hardware driver is less likely to succeed, than a program that
does not. Makes sense to me, now that I've learned a bit more.


From oly562 at charter.net  Mon Mar 16 10:22:41 2009
From: oly562 at charter.net (PR)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:22:41 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <87vdqarbas.fsf@matica.localdomain>
References: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
	<87vdqarbas.fsf@matica.localdomain>
Message-ID: <49BE8AE1.6000908@charter.net>

if you have an emulator for ubuntu 8.04 that can run a windoze webcam 
driver, that would be awesome. other wise ill have to write one, and i 
assure you i have never done that before lol.
thanks , pete

Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> Pewter> I'm interested in an XP emulator for Ubuntu 8.10, that works
> Pewter> well with unsupported peripherals, such as scanners and
> Pewter> printers.
>
> What scanner and printer do you mean?  Are you really sure they don't
> work natively?
>
>   


From oly562 at charter.net  Mon Mar 16 10:43:36 2009
From: oly562 at charter.net (PR)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:43:36 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49BE8FC8.1090000@charter.net>

gotta a quick question, but if someone knows for sure, can i run a 
windoze web cam from my laptop running virtualbox? if so, i will load up 
Vbox drivers and go from there. the reason: i can not get my windoze 
webcam to work with my laptop, its usb, and i have tried the basics, 
lspci shows the cam, modprobe has been used to load up all sorts of 
webcam drivers. yadda.... thanks...

Pewter Bot wrote:
> I know about Wine, but never used it. Here is a page that lists
> additional Windoze emulators:
>
> http://www.freebyte.com/operatingsystems/#emulators
>
> I'm interested in an XP emulator for Ubuntu 8.10, that works well with
> unsupported peripherals, such as scanners and printers. Is the ol'
> standard Wine best for that, or some other? Here's a list of free
> Windoze emulators, on that page:
>
> Bochs
> VirtualBox
> Wine
>
> Is one emulator perhaps better at handling unsupported drivers, than
> the other two? TIA.
>
> Or would NDIS wrapper be the better solution? I have been advised by
> hackers-in-the-know, to avoid that program like a plague...not for
> newbies.
>
> (Posting to you from Linux via wvdial...yaaay! I like it better than
> pon, 'cause it displays your connect speed...I prefer to disconnect
> and try another local number, if the connect just made is lower than
> 42kbps.)
>
>   


From bill.honeycutt at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 12:31:53 2009
From: bill.honeycutt at gmail.com (Wm. F. Honeycutt)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:31:53 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <49BE8FC8.1090000@charter.net>
References: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
	<49BE8FC8.1090000@charter.net>
Message-ID: <87acd5770903161231g5ef7a3cdj94b976828c33daad@mail.gmail.com>

So you're trying to get windows drivers running under Ubuntu for a
webcam?  IMHO, you would be spending your time more profitably by
learning how to install your hardware with native Linux drivers.

At the very least, try posting the model number of your hardware and
as much information as you can about how Linux detects the camera when
you plug it into USB.

A good place to start might be to plug the device into your computer
and examine the output from `dmesg` command.  What kind of messages
are generated?

Try this link:

http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Webcam-HOWTO/hardware.html


On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:43 AM, PR <oly562 at charter.net> wrote:
> gotta a quick question, but if someone knows for sure, can i run a
> windoze web cam from my laptop running virtualbox? if so, i will load up
> Vbox drivers and go from there. the reason: i can not get my windoze
> webcam to work with my laptop, its usb, and i have tried the basics,
> lspci shows the cam, modprobe has been used to load up all sorts of
> webcam drivers. yadda.... thanks...
>
> Pewter Bot wrote:
>> I know about Wine, but never used it. Here is a page that lists
>> additional Windoze emulators:
>>
>> http://www.freebyte.com/operatingsystems/#emulators
>>
>> I'm interested in an XP emulator for Ubuntu 8.10, that works well with
>> unsupported peripherals, such as scanners and printers. Is the ol'
>> standard Wine best for that, or some other? Here's a list of free
>> Windoze emulators, on that page:
>>
>> Bochs
>> VirtualBox
>> Wine
>>
>> Is one emulator perhaps better at handling unsupported drivers, than
>> the other two? TIA.
>>
>> Or would NDIS wrapper be the better solution? I have been advised by
>> hackers-in-the-know, to avoid that program like a plague...not for
>> newbies.
>>
>> (Posting to you from Linux via wvdial...yaaay! I like it better than
>> pon, 'cause it displays your connect speed...I prefer to disconnect
>> and try another local number, if the connect just made is lower than
>> 42kbps.)
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 16 12:39:21 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:39:21 -0700
Subject: [buug] Ubuntu 8.10 update (more good news)
Message-ID: <a86954420903161239te214749gabc69833a6e12d16@mail.gmail.com>

It never ends! (The good news, of course). I installed Eeebuntu 2.0
last night (replacing standard Ubuntu 8.10)...and guess what?

My  internal atheros 5007G wifi chip was instantly recognized, and the
signal is STRONG! Fantastic. Eeebuntu has three flavors: Standard,
NBR, and Base. I installed the Standard iso...but I'm gonna replace it
with NBR...which is the Standard, plus a very nice GUI especially
designed for netbooks. You can check out all three here:

http://www.eeebuntu.org/index.php?page=download

-- 
http://www.youtube.com/user/pewterbot9


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar 16 15:01:54 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:01:54 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090316220153.GD5493@linuxmafia.com>

Catching up on this thread.

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (pewterbot9 at gmail.com):

> I know about Wine, but never used it. Here is a page that lists
> additional Windoze emulators:
> 
> http://www.freebyte.com/operatingsystems/#emulators
> 
> I'm interested in an XP emulator for Ubuntu 8.10, that works well with
> unsupported peripherals, such as scanners and printers. Is the ol'
> standard Wine best for that, or some other? Here's a list of free
> Windoze emulators, on that page:
> 
> Bochs
> VirtualBox
> Wine
> 
> Is one emulator perhaps better at handling unsupported drivers, than
> the other two? TIA.
> 
> Or would NDIS wrapper be the better solution? I have been advised by
> hackers-in-the-know, to avoid that program like a plague...not for
> newbies.


There's a syndrome we see often enough to be wary of it, on *ix mailing
lists (and other technical forums), whose somewhat blunt name is
"Solving the wrong problem", and you should be careful lest you end up
doing that.  The way it works is that someone new to a piece of software
or hardware enters the forum and asks "How do I do [foo]?" and the
regulars answer the question exactly as posed, while privately thinking 
"But why would he/she be wanting to do [foo]?  It's probably more in
his/her interest to do [bar]."

You started out with a request for information about XP emulators, which
means you're tending to get (mostly) answers to the question as posed,
but I see that several people (notably Ian) have also been thoughtful
enough to politely question your underlying assumption of that being the
most appropriate solution to your real, underlying problem.

There certainly _are_ problems for which the best solution is either:

1. Win32 subsystems integrated directly into Linux userland
2. Virtual machines of one sort or the other that run MS-Windows under
   a Linux for x86 host OS.
3. Software that allow one to remotely run Win32 apps on a dedicated 
   and network-connected MS-Windows box and image it onto, and control
   it from, a graphical Linux box that is on the same network.

Those all are ways of doing "Windows on Linux", and each way (category
of solution)has a number of implementations that we could discuss.

Please note that you have _not_ accurately cited "Windows emulators" 
in your above-quoted list.  For example:  Bochs is a software emulator
of the entirety of x86 hardware all the way down to the hardware
register and BIOS level.  It does not provide an operating system, but
rather an emulated-PC layer atop which you could run a PC-compatible
operating system.  Because of the extremely deep scope of hardware
emulation, it carries a fearsome cost in system overhead.  Also, of
course, _all_ relevant hardware interface calls must be emulated for 
the simulated PC to function as desired.  Because of those drawbacks, 
its natural role is for use on non-Intel, non-AMD CPU platforms (e.g.,
PowerPC) where there is no alternative way to get x86 emulation.

VirtualBox isn't a Windows emulator, either.  It's a VM package (my
category #2) providing an emulated x86 guest VM, developed originally by
Innotek of Germany and now published by Sun Microsystems.

WINE[1] _is_ a partial Windows emulator, providing Linux-native userspace
reimplementations of selected MS-Windows DLLs' programming interfaces,
plus reimplementations of selected calls to the NT kernel.


In a followup, Zeke Krahlin (pewterbot9 at gmail.com) wrote:

> Just checked up on my scanner and printer compatibility, good news on
> both fronts:
>
> My Canoscan LiDE 20 is not even on the SANE Supported Scanners list of
> Canon models:
> http://www.sane-project.org/cgi-bin/driver.pl?manu=canon&model=&bus=usb&v=&p=
>
> But a search for "Canoscan LiDE 20 Linux" brought me here:
>
> http://www.epinions.com/review/pr-Canon_LIDE20_Flatbed_Scanner/content_208581398148
>
> Quote: "This scanner is compatible with Linux. It "just works" through
> SANE, no special drivers needed."
>
> To back up that claim, this from a linux site:
> http://pclinuxoshwdb.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=48
> 
> > So I got lucky. But why doesn't SANE list that model as compatible?
> (Doesn't sound very "sane" to me!)

Well, if you understand how the SANE Project and its device support
database works, that will make more sense:

At any given time, the project publishes both a "stable release" version
of its back-end software (where the device support is) and an "unstable
development" (CVS) version.  Newer code goes in the unstable/CVS 
trunk first, is tested, then is rolled out to stable.  Linux
distributions typically ship a snapshot of whatever the stable release 
was some time prior to their freeze date for the distribution release.

Meanwhile, SANE Project makes the Web site's HTML tables of known state
of hardware support for hundreds of current and past devices available
on the Web.  There are _two_ sets of that Web-published information:
There is one set of pages for the stable release, and one for the
unstable/CVS code.  And here's the clincher:  The developers have 
nothing like the time or money to go out and acquire all of that
hardware.  Instead, they are totally dependent on users all over the
world to submit reports about how various SANE releases worked with
their particular makes/models of scanner hardware (plus still cameras,
movie cameras, and other things) .  It's extremely common for recent
SANE releases to support a particular device model quite well, but the
Web site's roster of supported hardware says nothing about that, because
nobody's bothered to send the SANE Project a report telling them that.

_You_ could be the person who sends in such a report, sir.

Because of that drawback in the way the data-collection process works,
the more you know about your device, the more mileage you're likely to
get out of the two tables.  Let's consider the stable and unstable pages
for Canon scanners:

http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html#Z-CANON
http://www.sane-project.org/lists/sane-mfgs-cvs.html#Z-CANON

The Canon CanoScan LiDE 20 _is_ listed explicitly on the "unstable"
page.  It says your thing has a USB interface, USB device ID
"0x04a9/0x220d".  Support status is described as "Complete."  The tested
SANE back-end is "plustek" version 0.52.  The link for a relevant
manpage (on the Web) goes to:
http://www.sane-project.org/man/sane-plustek.5.html

That manpage (which would be in system manual section 5, such that you
could type "man 5 sane-plustek" -- or just "man sane-plustek" unless
there were a manpage in sections 1-4 with the same name) further
clarifies that the supported scanners are flatbed devices whose USB
hardware interface is provided by a National Semiconductor chip in the
"Merlin" family:  model LM9831, LM9832, or LM9833.  For specifically the
LiDE 20, it says that that hardware contains a LM9833 chip, has 512kB of
RAM, has USB device ID ("Prod-ID") 0x220D, and supports scanning at
600x1200dpi resolution with 42bits of detail.


Checking the "stable" page (first of the two URLs cited above), one
finds the _same_ information.  Tested back-end is (again) "plustek"
version 0.52, implying that the unstable release doesn't offer anything
new for those scanners that the stable version doesn't already have.

So, actually, it looks like what you needed was fully present on the
SANE Project Supported Device pages, but you missed it.



> My Lexmark Z645 printer also is compatible, I just found out:
>
> http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Lexmark-z645
>
> But since it's been so flaky with ink usage, it's a big waste of money
> and time, so I won't be using it anymore...I don't need to print much,
> anywayz. Just for the sake of learning, however, I'll set it up in
> Linux, then remove it later.


Sure.  That pages says "works perfect" with a driver (PPD file, and
sometimes accompanying code) called "z600v1.0-1", whatever the heck that
is.

Going by a bit of searching, I have a strong feeling that the reference
is to a cruddy bit of proprietary code produced by Lexmark, Inc. that
_used_ be downloadable as archive CJLZ600LE-CUPS-1.0-1.TAR.gz from the
Lexmark support site.  It can still be found at a third-party site,
as mentioned here:  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=447092

In case it isn't obvious, drivers published _by_ Manufacturers are
usually A Very Bad Thing in the Linux world.  They're usually really
badly written / buggy, proprietary, binary-only, easily break over time
(as a result of system upgrades with which they're incompatible) without
the community having any ability to fix them, and are often very
peculiarly packaged.  It is usually worth going to some lengths to avoid
such drivers and use genuine open source community-maintained drivers if
humanly possible.

In this case, Lexmark happens to be one of the manufacturers who mostly
cooperate poorly with the open source community, with the result that 
usable open source drivers come out only slowly, after coders in the
community reverse-engineer the hardware's programming interfaces.

Happily, it sounds like you might be looking to get a replacement
printer.  Might I suggest double-checking any candidates against
http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi , first?




[1] Despite the acronym standing for "WINE Is Not an Emulator", that
name is half-facetious.  WINE is an emulator to the extent that it 
aspires to emulate the portions of the Win32 programming interface that 
are considered to matter.  It does not aspire to fully implement all 
aspects of the Win32 programming interface, which is a good thing, since
the project has had a rough time with only its modest aims, given the 
incredible complexity of Win32, lack of documentation on key points, and 
evolving nature of the thing.

Recently, developers have started calling it "Wine" rather than "WINE",
but I do not concur.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar 16 15:47:12 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:47:12 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <20090316220153.GD5493@linuxmafia.com>
References: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090316220153.GD5493@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090316224711.GA12109@linuxmafia.com>

I wrote (about the SANE Project's information):

> Because of that drawback in the way the data-collection process works,
> the more you know about your device, the more mileage you're likely to
> get out of the two tables.

I wrote the above before I realised that _both_ the stable and
unstable-branch Web pages _do_ include entries for your specific model.
At the time, expecting to find nothing _specifically_ for the Canon
CanoScan LiDE 20, I was intending to on to make this point:

Let's suppose there were nothing about the LiDE 20.  Then, you'd 
spend a little time researching what the LiDE 20 _is_.  You'd find 
that it's part of a family of flatbed, USB-connected scanners, all
of which were alike in being based on National Semiconductor "Merlin" 
chips.

You'd make a plausible guess that the reason the LM9831, LM9832, and
LM9833 USB-interface chips all bear the same family name is that they
all have the same, or almost entirely the same, programming interface. 
Therefore, they are extremely likely to all work on the same driver at
the OS level.

So, then, you'd ask yourself, "OK, what Canon CanoScan LiDE-family model
_is_ listed in the SANE databases?"  You'd find that a bunch of them
were, including the hauntingly similar-sounding Canon CanoScan LiDE 25.
And so, you'd make a very plausible guess that the same driver that 
works with the model 25 would also work with the model 20 -- the
"plustek" SANE back-end driver.

You'd then simply move on to the obvious step of configuring SANE to use
that driver -- and, in all likelihood it would Just Work.

_Then_ you would repay the community by sending in a driver
compatibility report to the SANE Project.


And, by the way, very similar approaches, and very similar
considerations, apply in every other area of driver support on Linux.
Thus my point.

-- 
Cheers,              Crypto lets someone say "Hi! I absolutely definitely have 
Rick Moen            a name somewhat like the name of a large familiar 
rick at linuxmafia.com  organization, and I'd like to steal your data!" and lots 
McQ!  (4x80)         of users will say "OK, fine, whatever."    -- John Levine 


From jzitt at josephzitt.com  Mon Mar 16 16:32:57 2009
From: jzitt at josephzitt.com (Joseph Zitt)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:32:57 -0400
Subject: [buug] Ubuntu 8.10 update (more good news)
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903161239te214749gabc69833a6e12d16@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903161239te214749gabc69833a6e12d16@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf60725f0903161632q2ac238c0hb42403be4590f978@mail.gmail.com>

Yup, i'm running Eebuntu NBR on my Eee 710, and really happy with it.
It recognized everything straight off.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Pewter Bot <pewterbot9 at gmail.com> wrote:
> It never ends! (The good news, of course). I installed Eeebuntu 2.0
> last night (replacing standard Ubuntu 8.10)...and guess what?
>
> My ?internal atheros 5007G wifi chip was instantly recognized, and the
> signal is STRONG! Fantastic. Eeebuntu has three flavors: Standard,
> NBR, and Base. I installed the Standard iso...but I'm gonna replace it
> with NBR...which is the Standard, plus a very nice GUI especially
> designed for netbooks. You can check out all three here:
>
> http://www.eeebuntu.org/index.php?page=download
>
> --
> http://www.youtube.com/user/pewterbot9
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>



-- 
Joseph Zitt :: The Path of the Bookseller :: blog.josephzitt.com



From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 00:59:12 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 00:59:12 -0700
Subject: [buug] Ubuntu 8.10 update (more good news)
In-Reply-To: <cf60725f0903161632q2ac238c0hb42403be4590f978@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903161239te214749gabc69833a6e12d16@mail.gmail.com>
	<cf60725f0903161632q2ac238c0hb42403be4590f978@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a86954420903170059ve2e841bs1654e5159d45a06b@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/16/09, Joseph Zitt <jzitt at josephzitt.com> wrote:

> Yup, i'm running Eebuntu NBR on my Eee 710, and really happy with it.
> It recognized everything straight off.

I tried first: ubuntu-eee ("easy peasy") and stantdard ubuntu. No wifi
recognition! Got around that by using a USB antenna, worked just fine.
I was happy with then...then I wanted to try eeebuntu 'cause it has an
elegant and very user-friendly interface. To my surprise, it
recognized the ahteros right off the bat! None of the ubuntu forums
tell newbies this, when they post the same problem...they are
instructed to go through a convoluted series of hoops with no
success...causing some to go back to windoze!

I think it would be much better if they said one of two things that
would resolve the wifi issue:

1) We acknowledge the problem, and until we come up with a good
atheros driver, your simplest and happiest solution for now, is to pop
$20-30 for a USB antenna.

2) This distro still needs work with that chip, but we understand that
eeebuntu recognizes atheros just fine.

Anywayz, I just got online via eeebuntu-NBR, from home with dialup.
For some reason, wvdial.conf worked just fine in another distro, but
the same script in this one, just craps out! But I can connect using
the ol' "pon" command after creating a pppdial script.

And that's how I was able to read your message tonight. I'm very
impressed overall with the Asus netbooks, and with the excellent work
by the Ubuntu community. Quite a breakthrough!

I will bring my Asus to this Thursday's meeting (I always have my Asus
with me!), so anyone interested can check out this particular distro
of Ubuntu. Absolutely beautiful! The intelligence and dedication of
its creators shines through!

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
"A government is only as good as its operating system."


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 12:44:58 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:44:58 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
Message-ID: <a86954420903171244y5e73c0a9wc0cc9f4475cab1c5@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 Mar 2009 Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> typed:

{{ There's a syndrome we see often enough to be wary of it, on *ix mailing
lists (and other technical forums), whose somewhat blunt name is
"Solving the wrong problem", and you should be careful lest you end up
doing that. }}

Always an aspect of apprenticeship. Thanks for a most informative
response re. "emulation" and printer compatibility, SANE etc....worth
filing into my LInux library rather than tossing out after a first
read. Excellent references and advice.

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
A government is only as good as its operating system.


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 11:24:02 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:24:02 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
Message-ID: <a86954420903181124r21036056g8279e3f68f426801@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009k, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> posted;

{{ Happily, it sounds like you might be looking to get a replacement
printer.  Might I suggest double-checking any candidates against
http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi , first? }}

Actually, I have no intent to purchase another printer, I don't need
one. As for checking the Linux list first: of course that's a wise
move. However, a caveat to this would have been helpful, which is:

Being Linux compatible is no assurance that the printer will produce
pages even half as good as Windoze. I know from personal
experience...had I purchase a printer eight years ago, that was on a
Linux compatible list. Sure, it printed out as expected...but the
result was far inferior than what i got with Windoze. Which was one of
two major reasons I could not eliminate a Micro$lut OS from my system.
(The second was being part-time troubleshooter for Windoze
users...glad that's over with.)


-- 
Zeke Krahlin
A government's only as good as its operating system.


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Mar 18 11:58:00 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:58:00 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903181124r21036056g8279e3f68f426801@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903181124r21036056g8279e3f68f426801@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090318185759.GW5493@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (pewterbot9 at gmail.com):

> Being Linux compatible is no assurance that the printer will produce
> pages even half as good as Windoze. I know from personal
> experience...had I purchase a printer eight years ago, that was on a
> Linux compatible list. Sure, it printed out as expected...but the
> result was far inferior than what i got with Windoze.

Indeed, a number of printer manufacturers decline to even minimally meet
the needs of open source developers -- which means they're not willing
to make technical specs and example code available except (perhaps)
under NDA, which of course precludes use of that information in open
source development.  Please note that this isn't just a Linux thing, but
impairs open-source driver development on _any_ OS.  The only reasons you
perceive it as a Linux problem are that (1) the Linux community strongly 
resists long-term reliance on proprietary driver code and favours
open-source drivers, out of self-interest, and (2) hardware manufacturers
are motivated by the nature of the market to release (at least)
proprietary drivers for the then-prevalent versions of the Microsoft and
Apple OSes du jour.

(Note that that those proprietary drivers are often really buggy, are a
major source of OS instability -- though not with printer drivers -- and 
tend to be brittle and unmaintainable.)

In those cases, on Linux you have your choice of either using the
manufacturer's proprietary Linux driver, if there is one, or waiting for
the coder community to adequately reverse-engineer the hardware without
the manufacturer's help.  Specifically in the case of printers, there is
a third option:  extract the relevant PPD file from the proprietary
driver kit for MacOS X, which uses the same CUPS printing software used
these days on Linux.

(That may not be good enough on some extremely junky software-dependent
"GDI printers" such as HP PPA-type printers, and certain cheap Lexmark
inkjets will have problems because of a proprietary printing language.

The fact that a printer is on a "Linux compatible list" means only that
somebody is known to have coaxed some level of functionality out of it.  
However, bad signs are present if:  (1) It's from an uncooperative
manufacturer.  (2) It's a very recent model, leaving little time for
reverse-engineering.  (3) It's a low-end printer.  The cheapest and
nastiest inkjets tend to be most likely to be regarded by their
manufacturers as valuable trade secrets.  Go figure.

By the way:  Friends don't let friends buy cruddy injets.


> Which was one of two major reasons I could not eliminate a Micro$lut
> OS from my system.

Well, without getting a decent printer, anyway.  ;->

Used to be in olden days, people would tell me "I can't consider Linux
until there's good support for my $10 el-cruddo PCI winmodem."  I would
reply "Sorry to hear about your problem", while thinking "Wow, that
winmodem, if ground sufficiently finely, might make a surprisingly
strong espresso, which would be its best and highest use."

The modern equivalent is the highly proprietary low-end inkjet that's
sold for almost no money and probably at a loss, because they know
they'll make a fortune from you on expensive proprietary ink cartridges.
Some manufacturers, such as Lexmark, have even been known to put
circuitry in their cheap inkjets to ensure that you get only partial
usage out of offbrand cartridges, and had the gall to bring DMCA
litigation against third-party cartridge manufacturers that
reverse-engineered the cartridge handshake protocol.

Anyway, if you ever _do_ buy another printer, you know which listings
you should check, preferably in advance of purchase rather than after.
Doing so will have the corrolary advantage of helping you avoid printers
that are turkeys on other grounds, too.



From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 15:05:30 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:05:30 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
Message-ID: <a86954420903181505rc24afe0k3239175c6500df34@mail.gmail.com>

Wed, 18 Mar 2009 Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> posted:

{{ Please note that this isn't just a Linux thing, but
impairs open-source driver development on _any_ OS.  The only reasons
you perceive it as a Linux problem... }}

Actually, I don't perceive this as a Linux prob, nor was it my intent
to imply that. Mostly, it's a "low income  Linux newbie" problem.  :b

You could make the case that I've been playing around w/Linux for
goddess knows how many years...even founded BUUG back in 2000...so why
the heck are you  still a newbie? But let's leave that for another
time, over coffee and bagel.

My point being this: most newbies would simply assume that any Windoze
printer listed as Linux compatible would assume that the resulting
printouts would be of equal quality. And it is true that there are
(thankfully) cheap printers that do a pretty decent job...but they
work best under Windoze.

So it is mostly the issue of manufacturer quality...and low-income
newbies like myself, are stuck with a limited selection of crummy
printers. It is very difficult to find any compatible printer that one
can witness first-hand, the print results via Linux, before purchase.

Having said this, it is of course easy to connect with any Linux
community these days, thanks to the democratizing of cyberspace, to do
one's homework in seeking out a decent printer. It may cost more, but
not that impossible to obtain, just by cutting a corner or two.

{{ By the way:  Friends don't let friends buy cruddy injets. }}

:)

{{ "Wow, that winmodem, if ground sufficiently finely, might make a
surprisingly strong espresso, which would be its best and highest
use." }}

:)) I actually did get a cheap USB modem that does dialup nicely in
LInux: the Actiontec. Total eBay cost including shipping: $34. But I
did my homework first.

As for inexpensive wifi...well, coffeehouses are my lifestyle anywayz,
so in a way, broadband has come to me (to paraphrase that old saw
about Muhamet and the mountain).

So there is much joy in achieving cyber proficiency on a small
income...that others pay big bucks to acquire. Necessity is the mother
of invention...and so are limited resources. But when it comes to
printers, ya gotta spend more, and do your homework.

{{ The modern equivalent is the highly proprietary low-end inkjet
that's sold for almost no money and probably at a loss, because they
know they'll make a fortune from you on expensive proprietary ink
cartridges. }}

Indeed! And those refurbished cartridges often leak or dry up before
you're even halfway through. Where's the savings? I don't have the
kind of income to afford such waste. I only have the time.  :b

{{ Some manufacturers, such as Lexmark, have even been known to put
circuitry in their cheap inkjets to ensure that you get only partial
usage out of offbrand cartridges }}

You know, I am not surprised at all. As for another brand, HP: someone
donated to me some years back, a very fine HP printer, probably
retailed around $450...and it crapped out about two years later.
Because the circuitry that controls the "yellow" died. Didn't know
that at first, just assumed I ran out of yellow dye, so ordered
another color cartridge. Nope, yellow still wouldn't flow. So online
searching finally revealed that that model has a known flaw in its
cartridge circuity, specifically on the yellow frequency (so to
speak).

Now, I ask you: was this simply an accident of cheap factory assembly,
or planned obsolescence? Well, I got  beautiful printouts for my decal
designs while it lasted.

{{ Anyway, if you ever _do_ buy another printer, you know which
listings you should check, preferably in advance of purchase rather
than after. }}

Yes, thanks, Rick! I am thrilled to finally have switched over
entirely to Linux...and would much rather deal with any bugs in the
*nux distros, than with those in my "former" OS, whose name shall not
be mentioned this time around. With Linux, it's more fun, the people
are smart and interesting, and it will keep my brain from fossilizing
as I enter my golden years.

I thought it was wonderful and hilarious that China rejected M$'s bid
for their official networks, and went with Linux.

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
A government is only as good as its operating system.


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Mar 18 15:53:22 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:53:22 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903181505rc24afe0k3239175c6500df34@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903181505rc24afe0k3239175c6500df34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090318225322.GY5493@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (pewterbot9 at gmail.com):

> So it is mostly the issue of manufacturer quality...and low-income
> newbies like myself, are stuck with a limited selection of crummy
> printers. 

You know, a person of limited means should favour either a well-chosen
used middle-of-the road laser printer _or_ a new, low-end, but equally
well chosen, laser printer.  I'd do that _regardless_ of OS. 

I would eschew inkjet printers entirely, with one small exception, noted
below.  Why?  Because the overwhelming majority of them, and possibly
all of them without exception for all I know, are sucker bets.  They do
not save you money.  They merely seem like they would, on account of low
initial acquisition cost.  The subsequent cost of ink cartridges, even
if you use offbrand ones, kills your budget.

Here's an example of a reasonably well-chosen laser:  Brother model HL-2140.
You can find it new for about $80.  It's USB, 23 PPM print engine, 
2400x600 DPI resolution, B&W, 8MB RAM built-in.  Perfectly good on any
OS.

I wouldn't doubt you can save one Andrew Jackson, maybe even two, over
that market price, if you buy a miserable, money-burning inkjet,
instead, but that would be a really dumb thing to do.

The usage exception:  There are occasions when you simply have an
arguable need to print in colour, e.g., to print out colour photographs.
If so, one can argue that you might want to save up for a _second_
printer, an inkjet, that you carefully avoid using on any other
occasion.  But having an inkjet as your primary printer is, alas, a
self-defeating economics error.

> My point being this: most newbies would simply assume that any Windoze
> printer listed as Linux compatible would assume that the resulting
> printouts would be of equal quality.

You will typically get about equal quality _if_ you are willing to
follow the linuxprinting.org advice about the best _current_ PPD file to
use, as opposed to one that merely is on-hand and minimally works.
Sometimes, that means going out and grabbing the latest _good_ PPD from
the scumbag manufacturer's driver set, either for Linux or for OS X.
I've found that, typically, the people making the claim that "print
quality is worse with Linux" have _not_ done that: They've just sat
there and lazily clicked around with the default print filters (driver)
furnished inside their Linux distros.

Of course, if you're talking about _colour_ printing of images on very
low-end inkjets, that is precisely where some manufacturers will be 
making the most effort to keep their "secret sauce" as secret as
possible.  If you have chosen badly, you will probably have a more
difficult time getting good results.



> It is very difficult to find any compatible printer that one
> can witness first-hand, the print results via Linux, before purchase.

If the store won't let you boot Knoppix or Sidux and print a test page,
you're in the wrong store.

Live CDs are your friend.

But anyway, the linuxprinting.org database has pretty good per-model
information about print quality with different PPDs, and, also, you can
find information on-line.

Basically, all you need is the time and care to bother doing your
research _before_ buying.  Since you're talking about what Linux users
do who don't have a great deal of money to waste, I would think it's 
obvious:  Do your homework before buying.

Or, if you haven't done your homework before buying, and ended up with a
lemon, there's a remedy called "selling and buying, used":  You offload
the turkey, get cash for it, spend that cash on something better.


> :)) I actually did get a cheap USB modem that does dialup nicely in
> LInux: the Actiontec. Total eBay cost including shipping: $34. But I
> did my homework first.

Good!  The Actiontecs that use Lucent Venus chipsets, such as the
USB56012 Model UM100, appear to be OK.  You have to watch out,
especially because models come and go.  Me, I'd probably scrounge around
until I could find a used serial-connected US Robotics Courier external.





From jose at tumis.com  Wed Mar 18 16:40:34 2009
From: jose at tumis.com (jose d lopez)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:40:34 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <20090318225322.GY5493@linuxmafia.com>
References: <a86954420903181505rc24afe0k3239175c6500df34@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090318225322.GY5493@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <10978AF8-7962-47CA-B970-E7DD0C24322D@tumis.com>

I've probably bought about 15 "Brother HL-2140"  laser printer and  
similar models (USB/ Ethernet/Wireless) in the last five years for  
myself, friends, family homes/small offices. They are about $80 -  
sometimes less with Rebate. Print b/w only. But small, fast. Toner  
cartridges are pretty cheap, $32 from NewEgg - generics are cheaper  
-   about 1 per year for average use.

I've attached them to Macs, Windoze, *nix. I usually attached them to  
an always on desktop and enable printer sharing or connected directly  
to the Router. Then, anyone can print from anywhere. From laptops,  
Palm, Netbooks.



On Mar 18, 2009, at 3:53 PM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting Zeke Krahlin (pewterbot9 at gmail.com):
>
>> So it is mostly the issue of manufacturer quality...and low-income
>> newbies like myself, are stuck with a limited selection of crummy
>> printers.
>
> You know, a person of limited means should favour either a well-chosen
> used middle-of-the road laser printer _or_ a new, low-end, but equally
> well chosen, laser printer.  I'd do that _regardless_ of OS.
>
> I would eschew inkjet printers entirely, with one small exception,  
> noted
> below.  Why?  Because the overwhelming majority of them, and possibly
> all of them without exception for all I know, are sucker bets.  They  
> do
> not save you money.  They merely seem like they would, on account of  
> low
> initial acquisition cost.  The subsequent cost of ink cartridges, even
> if you use offbrand ones, kills your budget.
>
> Here's an example of a reasonably well-chosen laser:  Brother model  
> HL-2140.
> You can find it new for about $80.  It's USB, 23 PPM print engine,
> 2400x600 DPI resolution, B&W, 8MB RAM built-in.  Perfectly good on any
> OS.
>
> I wouldn't doubt you can save one Andrew Jackson, maybe even two, over
> that market price, if you buy a miserable, money-burning inkjet,
> instead, but that would be a really dumb thing to do.
>
> The usage exception:  There are occasions when you simply have an
> arguable need to print in colour, e.g., to print out colour  
> photographs.
> If so, one can argue that you might want to save up for a _second_
> printer, an inkjet, that you carefully avoid using on any other
> occasion.  But having an inkjet as your primary printer is, alas, a
> self-defeating economics error.
>
>> My point being this: most newbies would simply assume that any  
>> Windoze
>> printer listed as Linux compatible would assume that the resulting
>> printouts would be of equal quality.
>
> You will typically get about equal quality _if_ you are willing to
> follow the linuxprinting.org advice about the best _current_ PPD  
> file to
> use, as opposed to one that merely is on-hand and minimally works.
> Sometimes, that means going out and grabbing the latest _good_ PPD  
> from
> the scumbag manufacturer's driver set, either for Linux or for OS X.
> I've found that, typically, the people making the claim that "print
> quality is worse with Linux" have _not_ done that: They've just sat
> there and lazily clicked around with the default print filters  
> (driver)
> furnished inside their Linux distros.
>
> Of course, if you're talking about _colour_ printing of images on very
> low-end inkjets, that is precisely where some manufacturers will be
> making the most effort to keep their "secret sauce" as secret as
> possible.  If you have chosen badly, you will probably have a more
> difficult time getting good results.
>
>
>
>> It is very difficult to find any compatible printer that one
>> can witness first-hand, the print results via Linux, before purchase.
>
> If the store won't let you boot Knoppix or Sidux and print a test  
> page,
> you're in the wrong store.
>
> Live CDs are your friend.
>
> But anyway, the linuxprinting.org database has pretty good per-model
> information about print quality with different PPDs, and, also, you  
> can
> find information on-line.
>
> Basically, all you need is the time and care to bother doing your
> research _before_ buying.  Since you're talking about what Linux users
> do who don't have a great deal of money to waste, I would think it's
> obvious:  Do your homework before buying.
>
> Or, if you haven't done your homework before buying, and ended up  
> with a
> lemon, there's a remedy called "selling and buying, used":  You  
> offload
> the turkey, get cash for it, spend that cash on something better.
>
>
>> :)) I actually did get a cheap USB modem that does dialup nicely in
>> LInux: the Actiontec. Total eBay cost including shipping: $34. But I
>> did my homework first.
>
> Good!  The Actiontecs that use Lucent Venus chipsets, such as the
> USB56012 Model UM100, appear to be OK.  You have to watch out,
> especially because models come and go.  Me, I'd probably scrounge  
> around
> until I could find a used serial-connected US Robotics Courier  
> external.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug

TUMIS  // CTO
------------------------------------
2289 International Blvd
Oakland, CA 94606

tel  //  510.532.8267 //210
fax //  510.532.8461
web// tumis.com





From itz at buug.org  Wed Mar 18 21:19:39 2009
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:19:39 -0700
Subject: [buug] printers [Was: Best XP emulator?]
In-Reply-To: <20090318225322.GY5493@linuxmafia.com> (Rick Moen's message of
	"Wed\, 18 Mar 2009 15\:53\:22 -0700")
References: <a86954420903181505rc24afe0k3239175c6500df34@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090318225322.GY5493@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <87r60um9es.fsf_-_@matica.localdomain>


Rick> You know, a person of limited means should favour either a
Rick> well-chosen used middle-of-the road laser printer _or_ a new,
Rick> low-end, but equally well chosen, laser printer.  I'd do that
Rick> _regardless_ of OS.

Rick> I would eschew inkjet printers entirely, with one small exception,
Rick> noted below.  Why?  Because the overwhelming majority of them, and
Rick> possibly all of them without exception for all I know, are sucker
Rick> bets.  They do not save you money.  They merely seem like they
Rick> would, on account of low initial acquisition cost.  The subsequent
Rick> cost of ink cartridges, even if you use offbrand ones, kills your
Rick> budget.

Rick> Here's an example of a reasonably well-chosen laser: Brother model
Rick> HL-2140.  You can find it new for about $80.  It's USB, 23 PPM
Rick> print engine, 2400x600 DPI resolution, B&W, 8MB RAM built-in.
Rick> Perfectly good on any OS.

Fine sentiments, and I mostly agree, but a few things ought to be
mentioned.

First, an anecdote: we have a Brother model similar to this in the
office and gives us much trouble.  Mostly we prefer to wait for the HP
even if it's printing page 1 of someone else's 100 page document :)

For black & white quality and reliability at moderate price nothing
beats a gently used HP laser.  Yet I've just let one go and got an
inkjet, hoping that the "cruddy" adjective won't apply.  It's
multifunction --- one box houses a printer, a scanner and a copier ---
and with my currently limited quarters I can't justify 2 or 3 relatively
bulky boxes when 1 will do the job.  The inkjet is USB where the laser
was still parallel; this wasn't a showstopper with good old lpr because
I could just connect it with a centronix-to-USB adapter cable, but cups
detected the USB attributes of the adapter, not the printer, and refused
to go along.  The computer doesn't even have a parallel port.

I could get another laser like the Brother for much less than a new HP
laser, and of course that would address at least the USB part.  But it
turns out that pretty much _all_ non-HP lasers require
manufacturer-maintained, cruddy drivers (not just PPD files: see the
openprinting entry for the model you recommended), while for HPs (lasers
and inkjets) there's the hplip project which is part of the open
community, even if staffed by HP folks.

And then there are the power considerations.  Lasers are notorious power
hogs, to the point that it's recommended (with good reason, as I found)
not to plug them into the same circuit as your other equipment.  I looked
up the specs for the old HP laser, it said it drew over 200W while printing.
Meanwhile the inkjet spec says average 20W when printing.

-- 
Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org>
gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD 
fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5  BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD
Ham is for reading, not for eating.


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Mar 19 01:02:03 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 01:02:03 -0700
Subject: [buug] printers [Was: Best XP emulator?]
In-Reply-To: <87r60um9es.fsf_-_@matica.localdomain>
References: <a86954420903181505rc24afe0k3239175c6500df34@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090318225322.GY5493@linuxmafia.com>
	<87r60um9es.fsf_-_@matica.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20090319080202.GX28192@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Ian Zimmerman (itz at buug.org):

> First, an anecdote: we have a Brother model similar to this in the
> office and gives us much trouble.  Mostly we prefer to wait for the HP
> even if it's printing page 1 of someone else's 100 page document :)

$80 laser printers are in general pretty slow and have not a huge amount
of buffer RAM.  This is not a big surprise, I hope.  I'll note that the 
inkjet printers of similar acquisition cost are probably slower.  And
yet, there's a good point to make:

> For black & white quality and reliability at moderate price nothing
> beats a gently used HP laser.

True.  For example, I kept my HP LaserJet III around for ages, even
though, unlike all LaserJets after the III, it lacked power management
and was huge and heavy.  I kept it on tap for decades despite that,
because it and printers like it were ultra-dependable workhorses.

> Yet I've just let one go and got an inkjet, hoping that the "cruddy"
> adjective won't apply.  It's multifunction --- one box houses a
> printer, a scanner and a copier --- and with my currently limited
> quarters I can't justify 2 or 3 relatively bulky boxes when 1 will do
> the job.

Well, you see, those are compelling advantages in an office environment
that will actually use those functions and needs to save on space.  Most
people seeking a printer are looking for just a printer.

> The inkjet is USB where the laser was still parallel; this wasn't a
> showstopper with good old lpr because I could just connect it with a
> centronix-to-USB adapter cable, but cups detected the USB attributes
> of the adapter, not the printer, and refused to go along.  The
> computer doesn't even have a parallel port.

Indeed, you're talking about an awfully ancient HP model, there -- and
moreover one for which nobody bothered to scrounge a JetDirect card on
the used market, which is always the first thing I did with those.

> I could get another laser like the Brother for much less than a new HP
> laser, and of course that would address at least the USB part.  But it
> turns out that pretty much _all_ non-HP lasers require
> manufacturer-maintained, cruddy drivers (not just PPD files: see the
> openprinting entry for the model you recommended)....

Well, I can _now_.  At the time I posted, the Web site was offline, and
so I couldn't.  So, I went by the recommendations of a third-party site
that claimed to recommend good printers for Linux use, but that said 
nothing about dependency on secret-sauce code.

However, now that I am able to look at
http://openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Brother-HL-2140, I'm not
sure you're correct:  Notice the notedated  09-03-2008, where a user 
reports immediate success with _stock_ Kubuntu 8.04.1 LTS.  That report
could be wrong.  I just mention it for what it's worth.

Back when linuxprinting.org was a one-man operation run by Grant Taylor
(author of Foomatic), he had a _highly_ useful page on the front of the
site giving his opinions about which printers and manufacturers were
worth considering.  Now that it's been emborged by Linux Foundation, I'm
gathering that they found that page too much of a liability with printer
manufacturers to whom they wished to curry favour (just a guess).
Anyway, it's not there, any more.

Searching on the Web for Brother HL-1240/HL-1250 brings up a bunch of
posts claiming that both speak a slight variation on PCL, and viewing
the Openprinting.org page reveals that the 1250 is even less of a
challenge than the 1240:  It works "perfectly", and is supported by
three PPDs (without any proprietary assist), all of them open source:
gutenprint, gimp-print, and lh1250.

You know, if fact, browsing the printer listings by manufacturer, I 
see an awful lot of cheap lasers that work with generic PCL drivers of
one kind or another -- again, avoiding any need whatsoever for
proprietary code:  Okidata, Panasonic, Ricoh, Epson, Canon.  I stopped
there, but suspect I'd find the same with a bunch of the other
manufacturers' lasers.  Also, a bunch of them offer PostScript laser
printers, and those haven't added much expense since dinosaur days of
the HP LaserJet II and III, and are fine choices.

So, no, what you say doesn't appear to pan out.


> And then there are the power considerations.  Lasers are notorious power
> hogs, to the point that it's recommended (with good reason, as I found)
> not to plug them into the same circuit as your other equipment.  I looked
> up the specs for the old HP laser, it said it drew over 200W while printing.
> Meanwhile the inkjet spec says average 20W when printing.

Yes, and that is a significant difference _while printing_.  Fortnately, 
most places aren't so busy with printing that they have to keep the
print engine powered up a significant fraction of the time:  The power
management has been good ever since the era of the HP LaserJet IV, and
that was _ages_ ago.

And if an office _is_ so busy with printing as to keep the print engine
warmed up, it's going to be driven stark raving crazy by the intolerably
slow printing of inkjets, and rule them out of consideration.



From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 19 16:10:03 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:10:03 -0700
Subject: [buug] printers [Was: Best XP emulator?]
Message-ID: <a86954420903191610y5b1ebad2k226e971a9f78594c@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the excellent suggestions re. good printer for Linux.
My needs for color printing, when they come up again, will be for high
quality color printouts of several pages once a month or once every
two months. I then take these templates to photocopy them. These
copies will be the ones I cut out and turn into decals or buttons.

Seems it would be most economical in my case, to find a good local
service that will print out from a flash drive (USB stick or SD card).
I have no idea where to start looking. Recommendations? TIA.

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
A government is only as good as its operating system


From atporter at primate.net  Thu Mar 19 17:05:49 2009
From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron Porter)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:05:49 -0700
Subject: [buug] printers [Was: Best XP emulator?]
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903191610y5b1ebad2k226e971a9f78594c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903191610y5b1ebad2k226e971a9f78594c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090320000549.GT9497@primate.net>

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 04:10:03PM -0700, Pewter Bot wrote:
> Seems it would be most economical in my case, to find a good local
> service that will print out from a flash drive (USB stick or SD card).
> I have no idea where to start looking. Recommendations? TIA.

	Most print shops will do that. I think Kinkos will even let you
post a file via web form and pick it up.


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 20 13:30:54 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:30:54 -0700
Subject: [buug] Best XP emulator?
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903140301x390a4701j1bb83ea08a590d96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090320203054.GO31074@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (pewterbot9 at gmail.com):

> Here is a page that lists additional Windoze emulators:
> 
> http://www.freebyte.com/operatingsystems/#emulators

I already mentioned that this page, although useful for listing options 
capable of running MS-Windows, has the problem of lack of clarity about
what the listed items really are.  (Also, some really aren't practical
for running Windows, anyway.  For example, I doubt that Bochs, which
aims to emulate in software all PC hardware from the BIOS and registers
on up, can reliably support Windows.  And why would you emulate the
entire PC, anway, unless you're running some very non-PC-like hardware
using a different CPU family?)

But I thought I'd call attention to other things, too:

1.  Cluelessness about licensing.  There's no clarity about what they
say.  VirtualBox is described as "freeware, open source", Xen as "free", 
VMware Player as "freeware", VMware Workstation as "commercial,
non-freeware", and there is no clue given about Plex86 at all.

I've seen this syndrome before:  It afflicts the overwhelming majority
of software catalogues maintained by traditional IT journalists --
Tucows, ZDnet's stuff, Palmgear's and on and on -- all of them horribly
misleading.  The problem is that they don't understance licensing at
all, and don't know what the terms mean.

You would never know, from reading that page, that Xen is open source, 
that VMware is proprietary, that VMware is proprietary, and that Plex86 
is open source.  And those _are_ the long-term most-basic facts about 
the items listed.

2.  In particular, the telltale words "freeware" and "commercial".
The former term, especially, is a sure sign of confusion.  Consider:
What does it really mean?  Mostly, it has nothing to do with licensing,
and denotes expected acquisition cost.  To old-fogey IT journalists, 
Firefox is "freeware", but so is Adobe Flash Player, because both can be
acquired at zero cost -- even though the fundamental difference is that
Firefox is open source and Flash Player is proprietary.  

Even at that, the category makes little sense:  Is Adobe Pagemaker
"freeware" if a friend gives me his old copy and licence?  Is "freeware" 
limited only to software that can be lawfully duplicated without charge?
If so, why are things like Adobe Flash Player and RealPlayer included, 
since their licences forbid redistribution by anyone but authorised 
company agents?

"Commercial" logically should mean "Can be acquired for money", but 
then why isn't Debian considered "commercial" since (as the page points
out) you can buy prepressed CD sets?


Note:  Even though the page is shown as "Last updated on March 14, 2009",
it has an entry recommending ISOs of "United Linux", the common base
that was supposed to be underneath Caldera/SCO (defunct), SUSE, 
Conectiva (defunct), and TurboLinux.  UnitedLinux has been "pinin' for
the fjords" since 2004, when the SCO lawsuits killed it dead.

Moral of the story:  Don't rely on pages about Linux-related software
written by generic IT journalists who have no idea what they're talking
about.



From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 14:44:37 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:44:37 -0700
Subject: [buug] Buug Digest, Vol 48, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1237662001.13695.buug@weak.org>
References: <mailman.0.1237662001.13695.buug@weak.org>
Message-ID: <a86954420903211444y710ba51fy4a1ec9418e450830@mail.gmail.com>

2009/3/21  <buug-request at weak.org>:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009?Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> posted:

{{ Moral of the story: ?Don't rely on pages about Linux-related
software written by generic IT journalists who have no idea what
they're talking about. }}

You're right, very well said, Rick. Thanks for the elucidation; I
enjoyed learning about the specifics immensely. You comments are
sparing me much waste of time, useless distractions, and irritating
bad habits. In return, I'll be more careful about referring Linux
resources that are too sparse in their offerings, or lazy in their
definitions.

Having said this: do you know anything about the team at
ppa.launchpad.net ? They are the creators of the excellent GUI
"netbook-launcher", a really elegant and useful graphic gateway for
Linux newbies. Turns out that their attempts to secure their source
pages from corruption, they screwed up on the pgp aspect. And that
uninstalling netbook-launcher cleared up the problem entirely. Keeping
it caused failures in attempts to update packages. Yeeesh! The
repositories in question are:

http://blog.launchpad.net/do-core/ppa/ubuntu intrepid
http://blog.launchpad.net/netbook-remix-team/ubuntu intrepid

And I'm not the only one kinda PO'd; in fact had  others not come
before me, and told me what the problem was, I would've have had to
spend many more days's frustration. Here's a blog about the matter,
which discovery helped me finally resume flawless updates:

http://blog.launchpad.net/ppa/adding-a-ppas-key-to-ubuntu

The video listed there, that explains how to add a repository w/PGP, I
followed very carefully to get  right the first time...which led to
download errors during update...and halted the process early on. NOT
something a newbie cares to experience on his first official attempt
to update a spanking new Linux distro. Aaargh!

This time, all packages downloaded/installed quite quickly for so many
megabytes...what a relief. But now that I have your attention (once
again, thanks much); and I'm not even sure if I'm asking the right
question (learning curve issue, blech):

Update manage is using only one URL for repository. Wouldn't it ease
uploads, in times when that URL is flaky or down? There are is another
URL listed in the "3rd party" options, which is not activated. I'm
wondering if you know its reputation to be reliable:

http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu intrepid

Or, maybe I should just keep to the main page of "Software Sources",
which has the United States as default...with "Main Server" and
"others". But when there are times that server is bogged down, there
are other URL's listed to choose from, among many, many
countries...and from the US such as:

archive.linux.duke.edu
mirror.cc.columbia.edu
ftp.usf.edu
mirrors.mit.edu
ubuntu.cs.utah.edu

As you probably know, there are a lot more on that list. But because
they appear on the Update Manger's main menu (instead of "third
party"), can I assume they are all secure, reliable sources?

Thanks again...enjoy this rainy day (if it really happens). I'm
posting right now, from Tully's by the Shattuck BART.

  - Zeke



From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 16:10:58 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:10:58 -0700
Subject: [buug] Linux video sites?
Message-ID: <a86954420903211610h3d221f83v1d3f260a6953671b@mail.gmail.com>

Sparse pickings in youtube for Linux and Ubuntu videos, except "how to
install" and "versus Windoze" stuff. So I'm wondering if anyone here
can recommend a good site offering video instructions/tutorials/demos
of Linux and Ubuntu related material. Thnx!

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.youtube.com/user/pewterbot9


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar 23 00:21:17 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:21:17 -0700
Subject: [buug] Linux video sites?
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903211610h3d221f83v1d3f260a6953671b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903211610h3d221f83v1d3f260a6953671b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090323072116.GP31074@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (pewterbot9 at gmail.com):

> Sparse pickings in youtube for Linux and Ubuntu videos, except "how to
> install" and "versus Windoze" stuff. So I'm wondering if anyone here
> can recommend a good site offering video instructions/tutorials/demos
> of Linux and Ubuntu related material. Thnx!

If you'd like to see a series of seven kernel-oriented technical
lectures ("kernel walkthroughs") that SVLUG sponsored, you'll find them
linked from the SVLUG front page, http://www.svlug.org/ .



From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 12:21:29 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:21:29 -0700
Subject: [buug] Linux video sites?
Message-ID: <a86954420903231221m7c85ddd0u39c61ccc7d3bb38b@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> posted:

{{ If you'd like to see a series of seven kernel-oriented technical
lectures ("kernel walkthroughs") that SVLUG sponsored, you'll find them
linked from the SVLUG front page, http://www.svlug.org/ . }}

Yes, yes I would, thanks!  :P That will prove invaluable a little
further down the line, when I'm ready to perform non-trivial  tasks.

I've also found this site which includes a small collection (thus far)
of LInux how-to videos:

YouTube - EdgyRootStudios's Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/EdgyRootStudios

And, even better, another peruser of this list has offered to work
with me and another, on setting up a wiki video how-to for Linux
newbies. We're on a roll!

-- 
"A government is only as good as its operating system."
- Mighty Mouse Virus
http://www.gay-bible.org/write/3_security.htm


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 23 17:48:49 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:48:49 -0700
Subject: [buug] Setting up torrent on wifi
Message-ID: <a86954420903231748j370996b8iea817ca9bf32f296@mail.gmail.com>

This may not be practical, but it's my only source of high-speed
Internet, which is public wifi. Most instructions these days assume
you have your own home-based broadband. Ttorrent software, no
exception.

Just installed "Deluge Bittorrent Client" on Ubuntu 8.10. In the
setup, it asks for "maximum  upload speed". I'm not sure what the
setting should be, when connected via public wifi.

I need to know how to test what one's upload speed is, in order to
find out. I guess. Is there a Linux command or application for this?

Also, my system will not be consistently "on" to  participate in
torrent seeding...though gladly will participate whenever I'm on wifi.
(Perhaps I can alter the settings when home, for 56kbps.)

In seaching "speed" via Synaptic Package Manager, I find a utility
called "speedometer"...anyone know if this is the right one for
testing on public wifi? TIA, all!

-- 
"A government is only as good as its operating system."
- Mighty Mouse Virus
http://www.gay-bible.org/write/3_security.htm


From sami at juvonen.org  Mon Mar 23 19:34:02 2009
From: sami at juvonen.org (Sami Juvonen)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:34:02 -0700
Subject: [buug] Setting up torrent on wifi
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903231748j370996b8iea817ca9bf32f296@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903231748j370996b8iea817ca9bf32f296@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4cad3e500903231934h1ddb9a59t7942aa3fd7086a2e@mail.gmail.com>

> Just installed "Deluge Bittorrent Client" on Ubuntu 8.10. In the
> setup, it asks for "maximum ?upload speed". I'm not sure what the
> setting should be, when connected via public wifi.

Are you serious?

You want to do bittorrent filesharing while using someone else's
bandwidth? Hello? Not only is it ethically wrong, it's also
impractical. Either you kill bandwidth for everyone else using that
hot spot, or your torrent is uselessly slow. Or, if the admin is
smart, they already disabled torrent leeching from their network.

DSL isn't exactly expensive these days.

-s.



From jim at well.com  Tue Mar 24 09:13:39 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:13:39 -0800
Subject: [buug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday March 26,
	2009: Tools for Python	Programmers
Message-ID: <1237911219.8066.50.camel@jim-laptop>


BayPIGgies meeting Thursday March 26, 2009: Tools for Python
Programmers  

NOTE BayPIGgies is NO LONGER meeting at Google but at the Symantec
Vcafe, at Symantec's location at 350 Ellis Street in Mountain View. 
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18

Tonight's talk is 
* Tools for Python Programmers (in four parts) 
Sandrine Ribeau on pylint
JJ Behrens on the profiler module 
Drew Pertulla on visualising profiler results with KCacheGrind
Simeon Franklin on virtualenv, pip, and fabric

Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an 
essential Python feature, specially for those new to Python. 
Tonight's Newbie Nugget: 
unknown at this time 


NEW LOCATION FOR MARCH 26, 2009 
Symantec Corporation
Symantec Vcafe
350 Ellis Street
Mountain View, CA 94043

BayPIGgies meeting information is available at 
http://baypiggies.net/new/plone


About the Talks 
   Tonight's talks focus on tools that improve code, performance, 
and package and library prowess. 



------------------------ Agenda ------------------------
 
..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, 
any first-minute announcements. 


..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................

Newbie Nugget: unknown  


..... 7:45 PM to 7:55 PM ................

Pylint 
by Sandrine Ribeau 

..... 7:55 PM to 8:10 PM ................

Profiler Module 
by JJ Behrens 

..... 8:10 PM to 8:25 PM ................

KCacheGrind 
by Drew Perttula 

..... 8:25 PM to 8:45 PM ................

virtualenv, pip, and fabric 
by Simeon Franklin 



Note that the meeting may end promptly at 9 PM. 

..... 8:45 PM to 9:00 PM  ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics 
the announcers are interested in. 

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up 
individually on the announcements and other topics of 
interest.

Note that the meeting may end promptly at 9 PM. 




From leonardo at softel.cu  Tue Mar 24 12:09:43 2009
From: leonardo at softel.cu (leo)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:09:43 -0700
Subject: [buug] please don't send more messages
Message-ID: <1237921783.27503.1.camel@leonardo.softel.cu>

I really don't want more messages from this mailing list, so please
unscribe me once for all



From oly562 at charter.net  Tue Mar 24 10:27:15 2009
From: oly562 at charter.net (PR)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:27:15 -0700
Subject: [buug] please don't send more messages
In-Reply-To: <1237921783.27503.1.camel@leonardo.softel.cu>
References: <1237921783.27503.1.camel@leonardo.softel.cu>
Message-ID: <49C917F3.7060507@charter.net>

awww..... sniff

leo wrote:
> I really don't want more messages from this mailing list, so please
> unscribe me once for all
>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>
>   


From leonardo at softel.cu  Tue Mar 24 11:42:31 2009
From: leonardo at softel.cu (leonardo)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:42:31 +0100
Subject: [buug] very funny stupid oly562@charter.net
References: <1237921783.27503.1.camel@leonardo.softel.cu>
	<49C917F3.7060507@charter.net>
Message-ID: <003a01c9acb0$50c48dd0$7610a8c0@softel.cu>

you don't how to pronounce words, you sound like a stupid dog ( I can talk
better than you) if you don't have nothing to do with your time ( other than
watching porn and talking nonsense about linux) get a real job cleaning
bathrooms in a cafeteria, thats a place you'll probably enjoy.



From jammer at weak.org  Tue Mar 24 11:22:24 2009
From: jammer at weak.org (Jon McClintock)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:22:24 -0700
Subject: [buug] very funny stupid oly562@charter.net
In-Reply-To: <003a01c9acb0$50c48dd0$7610a8c0@softel.cu>
References: <1237921783.27503.1.camel@leonardo.softel.cu>
	<49C917F3.7060507@charter.net>
	<003a01c9acb0$50c48dd0$7610a8c0@softel.cu>
Message-ID: <20090324182224.GK13260@weak.org>

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 07:42:31PM +0100, leonardo wrote:
> you don't how to pronounce words, you sound like a stupid dog ( I can talk
> better than you) if you don't have nothing to do with your time ( other than
> watching porn and talking nonsense about linux) get a real job cleaning
> bathrooms in a cafeteria, thats a place you'll probably enjoy.

Ok, seriously? Grow up. There's a link at the bottom of every message
sent to this list where you can unsubscribe. You took a concious action 
to subscribe, you can just as easily unsubscribe yourself.

-Jon
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 24 11:43:18 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:43:18 -0700
Subject: [buug] very funny stupid oly562@charter.net
In-Reply-To: <20090324182224.GK13260@weak.org>
References: <1237921783.27503.1.camel@leonardo.softel.cu>
	<49C917F3.7060507@charter.net>
	<003a01c9acb0$50c48dd0$7610a8c0@softel.cu>
	<20090324182224.GK13260@weak.org>
Message-ID: <20090324184318.GW31074@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jon McClintock (jammer at weak.org):

> Ok, seriously? Grow up. There's a link at the bottom of every message
> sent to this list where you can unsubscribe. You took a concious action 
> to subscribe, you can just as easily unsubscribe yourself.

Good for you, Jon.

My advice if he won't stop yammering on-list:  Add him to the field
"List of non-member addresses whose postings will be automatically
rejected" on http://www.weak.org/mailman/admin/conspire/privacy/sender .
(It works on subscribed addresses, too.)

 



From john at jjdev.com  Tue Mar 24 11:53:23 2009
From: john at jjdev.com (John de la Garza)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:53:23 -0700
Subject: [buug] very funny stupid oly562@charter.net
In-Reply-To: <003a01c9acb0$50c48dd0$7610a8c0@softel.cu>
References: <1237921783.27503.1.camel@leonardo.softel.cu>
	<49C917F3.7060507@charter.net>
	<003a01c9acb0$50c48dd0$7610a8c0@softel.cu>
Message-ID: <e1e1f9f30903241153q47981adfs84b435af381254ca@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:42 AM, leonardo <leonardo at softel.cu> wrote:
> you don't how to pronounce words, you sound like a stupid dog ( I can talk
> better than you) if you don't have nothing to do with your time ( other than
> watching porn and talking nonsense about linux) get a real job cleaning
> bathrooms in a cafeteria, thats a place you'll probably enjoy.


It is kind of funny that you are telling someone he is stupid because
they don't pronounce words correctly (by the way, how to you know how
people pronounce things by reading a mailing list?  I must be missing
some context...) and at the same time demonstrating your lack of
abilities to speak English (see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_negative) and to use a mailing
correctly.  Typically mailing list users don't demand to be
unsubscribed, they simply unsubscribe themselves. This may involve
reading this page:  http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
.


From charles.paul at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 11:55:32 2009
From: charles.paul at gmail.com (Charles Paul)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 11:55:32 -0700
Subject: [buug] very funny stupid oly562@charter.net
In-Reply-To: <e1e1f9f30903241153q47981adfs84b435af381254ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1237921783.27503.1.camel@leonardo.softel.cu>
	<49C917F3.7060507@charter.net>
	<003a01c9acb0$50c48dd0$7610a8c0@softel.cu>
	<e1e1f9f30903241153q47981adfs84b435af381254ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f720c0630903241155o358214dbyaac974f80d108c32@mail.gmail.com>

Successful troll is... successful.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:53 AM, John de la Garza <john at jjdev.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:42 AM, leonardo <leonardo at softel.cu> wrote:
>> you don't how to pronounce words, you sound like a stupid dog ( I can talk
>> better than you) if you don't have nothing to do with your time ( other than
>> watching porn and talking nonsense about linux) get a real job cleaning
>> bathrooms in a cafeteria, thats a place you'll probably enjoy.
>
>
> It is kind of funny that you are telling someone he is stupid because
> they don't pronounce words correctly (by the way, how to you know how
> people pronounce things by reading a mailing list? ?I must be missing
> some context...) and at the same time demonstrating your lack of
> abilities to speak English (see:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_negative) and to use a mailing
> correctly. ?Typically mailing list users don't demand to be
> unsubscribed, they simply unsubscribe themselves. This may involve
> reading this page: ?http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
> .
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 24 12:06:57 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:06:57 -0700
Subject: [buug] very funny stupid oly562@charter.net
In-Reply-To: <e1e1f9f30903241153q47981adfs84b435af381254ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1237921783.27503.1.camel@leonardo.softel.cu>
	<49C917F3.7060507@charter.net>
	<003a01c9acb0$50c48dd0$7610a8c0@softel.cu>
	<e1e1f9f30903241153q47981adfs84b435af381254ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090324190657.GX31074@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting John de la Garza (john at jjdev.com):

> Typically mailing list users don't demand to be unsubscribed....

Or have their shoes tied for them, after about the age of four.

> ...they simply unsubscribe themselves. This may involve
> reading this page:  http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug

...which is one reason it's advertised at the bottom of every message.
Just in case people haven't noticed, every posting also sports these
headers:

List-Id: Berkeley Unix User Group <buug.weak.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug>,
        <mailto:buug-request at weak.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.weak.org/pipermail/buug>
List-Post: <mailto:buug at weak.org>
List-Help: <mailto:buug-request at weak.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug>,
        <mailto:buug-request at weak.org?subject=subscribe>

Notice in particular the List-Unsubscribe and List-Help data.  Those are
where one can send e-mail to either unsubscribe or to talk to the
listadmin.  In general, there is _never_ justification for sending a
purely administrative request for help to bother hundreds of fellow
mailing list subscribers.  That is about as rude and clueless as
standing up in front of a movie screen and shouting loudly that you
aren't enjoying it and want your money back:  You are pointlessly
bothering your fellow patrons.

That is true on really _any_ mailing list software:  GNU Mailman,
Majordomo, Sympa, ezmlm, etc.:  You can always append either -request or
-owner (varies) to the base-address of the mailing list, to discuss a
problem with the listadmin (in this case, to buug-request at weak.org).

People often complain "...but I didn't see the List-* headers, because
my mail program conceals them."  Maybe so -- but it didn't conceal 
"http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug" in the footer, where all
that information can be found, too.



From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 13:43:07 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:43:07 -0700
Subject: [buug] Thanks, Jon!
Message-ID: <a86954420903241343l4f8a9fabmebcd9200919f4553@mail.gmail.com>

To: Jon McClintock <jammer at weak.org>
Re: Thanks for your excellent contributions!

Hey, Jon, there you are! I've been meaning to get around to thanking
you for keeping BUUG going strong all these years. Same goes to anyone
else who's worked alongside you. While I'm the founder, you certainly
deserve most of the credit, as I was away for almost seven years
(family issues). SurpriseD and delighted to see BUUG thriving, as a
social hub for *nix wizards and their apprentices.

Now that I'm back, I'll gladly serve as a welcoming committeE for
absolute Linux newbies coming over from Windoze. That way, the wizards
won't be needlessly bogged down by the most basic of questions and
problems. Seems like I'll also be involved in a project proposed by
another, to create a wiki for Linux how-to videos.

How's your buddy "Feedle"? I hope  he is doing well. Likewise
yourself, of course. And again, a big THNX!


-- 
"A government is only as good as its operating system."
- Mighty Mouse Virus
http://www.gay-bible.org/write/3_security.htm


From bill.honeycutt at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 14:11:12 2009
From: bill.honeycutt at gmail.com (Wm. F. Honeycutt)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:11:12 -0700
Subject: [buug] very funny stupid oly562@charter.net
In-Reply-To: <20090324190657.GX31074@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1237921783.27503.1.camel@leonardo.softel.cu>
	<49C917F3.7060507@charter.net> 
	<003a01c9acb0$50c48dd0$7610a8c0@softel.cu>
	<e1e1f9f30903241153q47981adfs84b435af381254ca@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090324190657.GX31074@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <87acd5770903241411i5cbf7de3hd325b3232f00c2ab@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't realize Cuba allowed subversive mailing lists...but it DOES
originate in the People's Republic of Berkeley ;-)


From itz at buug.org  Tue Mar 24 19:42:27 2009
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:42:27 -0700
Subject: [buug] Thanks, Jon!
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903241343l4f8a9fabmebcd9200919f4553@mail.gmail.com>
	(Pewter Bot's message of "Tue\, 24 Mar 2009 13\:43\:07 -0700")
References: <20090324182224.GK13260@weak.org>
	<a86954420903241343l4f8a9fabmebcd9200919f4553@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87y6uu1fxo.fsf@matica.localdomain>


Pewter> How's your buddy "Feedle"? I hope he is doing well. Likewise
Pewter> yourself, of course. And again, a big THNX!

Why am I having this exquisite deja vu feeling?

-- 
Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org>
gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD 
fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5  BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD
Ham is for reading, not for eating.


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 24 22:05:02 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:05:02 -0700
Subject: [buug] Thanks, Jon!
In-Reply-To: <87y6uu1fxo.fsf@matica.localdomain>
References: <20090324182224.GK13260@weak.org>
	<a86954420903241343l4f8a9fabmebcd9200919f4553@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y6uu1fxo.fsf@matica.localdomain>
Message-ID: <a86954420903242205r17c3d1bfwb1c44219195730e2@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/24/09, Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org> wrote:

> Why am I having this exquisite deja vu feeling?

   `(?.?)~



From kayve at sfsu.edu  Thu Mar 26 13:31:25 2009
From: kayve at sfsu.edu (KAYVEN RIESE)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:31:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [buug] Thanks, Jon!
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903242205r17c3d1bfwb1c44219195730e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090324182224.GK13260@weak.org>
	<a86954420903241343l4f8a9fabmebcd9200919f4553@mail.gmail.com>
	<87y6uu1fxo.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<a86954420903242205r17c3d1bfwb1c44219195730e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOC.4.64.0903261331160.1743@libra.sfsu.edu>

On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Pewter Bot wrote:

> On 3/24/09, Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org> wrote:
>
>> Why am I having this exquisite deja vu feeling?
>
>   `(?.?)~

wtf?  {:D

>
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>

*----------------------------------------------------------*
   Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics)
   (415) 902 5513 cellular
   http://kayve.net
   Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org
*----------------------------------------------------------*

From itz at buug.org  Fri Mar 27 01:59:16 2009
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 01:59:16 -0700
Subject: [buug] "Easy" integrated DSL modem/router (not!)
Message-ID: <87k56bbau3.fsf@matica.localdomain>


I just posted the following on linuxquestions.org, referring to the
2wire 2700HG-B that came with my roommate's AT&T DSL.

Ian> these routers are junk :(

Ian> I am struggling with one as well. I am no beginner, I am an
Ian> experienced Unix & Linux sysadmin. The problem is simply that some
Ian> computers don't show up on the router's list, so there's no way to
Ian> set up NAT for them because the setting is not by IP address but by
Ian> the name on the list. The list is somehow dynamically discovered by
Ian> the router, and I have no clue what it is my Linux box has to do to
Ian> be noticed. Maybe something to do with SNMP? Or NetBIOS? I did a
Ian> tcpdump on the Linux box and I see the router continually sends ARP
Ian> requests, 1 per second. When my box receives one of these it
Ian> replies properly with its MAC address, so that makes it even
Ian> weirder that it's not included in the list.

Ian> If anyone has figured out how to make this piece of *@%# behave,
Ian> please help.

-- 
Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org>
gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD 
fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5  BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD
Ham is for reading, not for eating.


From oly562 at charter.net  Fri Mar 27 10:30:38 2009
From: oly562 at charter.net (PR)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:30:38 -0700
Subject: [buug] "Easy" integrated DSL modem/router (not!)
In-Reply-To: <87k56bbau3.fsf@matica.localdomain>
References: <87k56bbau3.fsf@matica.localdomain>
Message-ID: <49CD0D3E.6000402@charter.net>

possibly the device is set in bridge mode, not routing, typically the 
only people allowed to go inside a "dsl router" is the ISP. Becareful as 
support will give you guff if they think your trying to do something 
unauthorized. If you can sway the support guy to let you go into the 
device by brower most likely, then you can tweek some settings - i.e., 
change the config to your needs, other wise you ask for command line 
user/pw and do the configs your self, provided you have the pdf manual 
for that device.

PS. let me know if I am not addressing what you need.

Njoy, Oly




Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> I just posted the following on linuxquestions.org, referring to the
> 2wire 2700HG-B that came with my roommate's AT&T DSL.
>
> Ian> these routers are junk :(
>
> Ian> I am struggling with one as well. I am no beginner, I am an
> Ian> experienced Unix & Linux sysadmin. The problem is simply that some
> Ian> computers don't show up on the router's list, so there's no way to
> Ian> set up NAT for them because the setting is not by IP address but by
> Ian> the name on the list. The list is somehow dynamically discovered by
> Ian> the router, and I have no clue what it is my Linux box has to do to
> Ian> be noticed. Maybe something to do with SNMP? Or NetBIOS? I did a
> Ian> tcpdump on the Linux box and I see the router continually sends ARP
> Ian> requests, 1 per second. When my box receives one of these it
> Ian> replies properly with its MAC address, so that makes it even
> Ian> weirder that it's not included in the list.
>
> Ian> If anyone has figured out how to make this piece of *@%# behave,
> Ian> please help.
>
>   


From windsor.schmidt at gmail.com  Fri Mar 27 10:31:20 2009
From: windsor.schmidt at gmail.com (Windsor Schmidt)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:31:20 -0700
Subject: [buug] "Easy" integrated DSL modem/router (not!)
In-Reply-To: <87k56bbau3.fsf@matica.localdomain>
References: <87k56bbau3.fsf@matica.localdomain>
Message-ID: <66e006d50903271031u9be6f73q88737f632ecd7cb2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, my name is Windsor. I've been a lurker on the list for a while, but
since I happen to have the same router as Ian (2700HG-B), I thought I'd
post.

I've noticed the same behavior of machines not appearing on it's list to be
able to configure port-forwarding with them as a target, though luckily my
Linux server is on it's list. Because it worked for me I didn't bother
exploring the situation, but I considered a few possibilities why my server
does show up in it's list:

1. It's because the server is connected via wireless (different discovery
method on the router perhaps runs through a different code path?).
2. It's because of some service that is running on the server (dscovery
method not complete with a simple ARP reply from server).
3. It's because of some networking service/tool/client I've used on the
server that triggers the router (because of it's having to perform NAT on my
server's behalf).

Ian, if there's anything in particular about my setup that I can double
check with you, I'd be happy to help try and troubleshoot. FWIW, my Linux
server is Debian Lenny on i686 hardware, and I use a Linksys WMP54G wireless
NIC.

-Windsor


On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org> wrote:

>
> I just posted the following on linuxquestions.org, referring to the
> 2wire 2700HG-B that came with my roommate's AT&T DSL.
>
> Ian> these routers are junk :(
>
> Ian> I am struggling with one as well. I am no beginner, I am an
> Ian> experienced Unix & Linux sysadmin. The problem is simply that some
> Ian> computers don't show up on the router's list, so there's no way to
> Ian> set up NAT for them because the setting is not by IP address but by
> Ian> the name on the list. The list is somehow dynamically discovered by
> Ian> the router, and I have no clue what it is my Linux box has to do to
> Ian> be noticed. Maybe something to do with SNMP? Or NetBIOS? I did a
> Ian> tcpdump on the Linux box and I see the router continually sends ARP
> Ian> requests, 1 per second. When my box receives one of these it
> Ian> replies properly with its MAC address, so that makes it even
> Ian> weirder that it's not included in the list.
>
> Ian> If anyone has figured out how to make this piece of *@%# behave,
> Ian> please help.
>
> --
> Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org>
> gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD
> fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5  BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD
> Ham is for reading, not for eating.
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug
>
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From atporter at primate.net  Fri Mar 27 10:43:47 2009
From: atporter at primate.net (Aaron Porter)
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:43:47 -0700
Subject: [buug] "Easy" integrated DSL modem/router (not!)
In-Reply-To: <87k56bbau3.fsf@matica.localdomain>
References: <87k56bbau3.fsf@matica.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20090327174347.GH20111@primate.net>

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 01:59:16AM -0700, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> 
> I just posted the following on linuxquestions.org, referring to the
> 2wire 2700HG-B that came with my roommate's AT&T DSL.

	Not answering the question, but it looks like there are lots of
less-broken modems (sans wifi-ap) on craigslist pretty cheap.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=dsl+modem&minAsk=min&maxAsk=25


From grantbow at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 10:21:41 2009
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:21:41 -0700
Subject: [buug] Freenode
In-Reply-To: <317e39f0903280956u50d0a9oa4f5e3e2991f7c67@mail.gmail.com>
References: <317e39f0903280956u50d0a9oa4f5e3e2991f7c67@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <317e39f0903281021t26fda302xb5eb270225544726@mail.gmail.com>

I will try to keep this brief and to the point. ?This message has been
cross posted to several lists which will explain why you might get
more than one copy. ?I hope you find it informative too. ?Send all
flames to me, not to the lists.

I'm taking off the other hats I wear for a moment to ask for you or
your company's support of Freenode [1] (technically the Peer-Directed
Projects Center or PDPC) now based in the United Kingdom. ?For those
that don't know, Freenode is an IRC [2] network supporting Open Source
and Free Software communities globally. ?Another PDPC activity is the
annual FOSSCON conference in the fall. ?PDPC is specifically [3]
raising funds in order to be recognized by the UK as an official
charitable organization. ?This status has many benefits, however they
need to raise a certain amount of money by March, 2009. ?There are
just a few days left in the fundraising campaign.

Canonical Ltd. (the company created by Mark Shuttleworth that drives
Ubuntu Linux) has graciously stepped forward to provide dollar for
dollar matching, magnifying the impact of your donations to PDPC. ?The
fund raising goal has almost been reached but your contribution is
needed. ?Brainstorming by the PDPC board of directors for how to use
any funds not used for operations includes hosting live conference
events in Europe and the US, extending current services and improving
the reliability of the freenode network by hosting a few of their own
hubs and backup systems. ?Freenode is growing rapidly [4] supporting
up to 57,000 concurrent users up from a maximum of about 40,000 18
months ago.

Some people may not be aware that IRC is used by a huge array of Open
Source and Free Software projects. ?The list of groups [5] Freenode
works with is truly impressive. ?I feel it is not at all hyperbole to
say that the work done over freenode and OFTC [6] are the real-time
backbone of open source collaboration throughout the world, ?Coders
use the IRC network to develop applications used by millions of people
every day and provide *end user support*. ?If you use any open source
software you may be an indirect beneficiary of the services Freenode
provides. ?I encourage those who are interested to try launching an
IRC client such as Pidgin [7] and see for yourself. ?You won't be
sorry you did.

While I have used Freenode for many years, this year I too became a
contributor for the first time. ?For a one time contribution
http://freenode.net/pdpc_donations.shtml of as little as $8 you can
join me in supporting supporting Freenode and the many Open Source
projects they serve.

Thanks for your consideration,

--
-- Grant Bowman ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <grantbow at gmail.com>


[1] http://freenode.net/pdpc_donations.shtml
? ?http://fosscon.org/about/

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat is a form of
group instant messaging first used in 1988. ?Related sites include
http://www.irchelp.org/ and http://www.irc.org/

[3] http://blog.freenode.net/2008/10/fundraising-for-charity-status/
? ?http://blog.freenode.net/2009/03/20082009-fundraiser-campaign-update/

[4] http://freenode.net/history.shtml also http://searchirc.com/network/Freenode

[5] http://freenode.net/primary_groups.shtml include the Apache
Software Foundation, Canonical Ltd (Ubuntu), Creative Commons
Corporation, Free Software Foundation (GNU Project), Mozilla
Foundation (Firefox), MySQL AB, NetBSD Foundation, Open Darwin
Foundation (Apple builds OSX using Darwin), OpenOffice.org, Red Hat,
Inc. & the World Wide Web Consortium among others.

[6] OFTC is a a similar but much smaller IRC network. ?See "Freenode
and OFTC IRC networks buddy up", May 2007
http://www.linux.com/articles/62098 also
http://searchirc.com/network/OFTC

[7] http://pidgin.im is an IRC client that runs on Windows, Mac and
Linux formerly named Gaim. ?http://www.mirc.com/ is also popular on
the Windows platform.



From john_re at fastmail.us  Mon Mar 30 19:18:07 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:18:07 -0700
Subject: [buug] BerkeleyTIP, Speedtest -was Re:  Linux video sites?
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903211610h3d221f83v1d3f260a6953671b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903211610h3d221f83v1d3f260a6953671b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238465887.22586.1308138773@webmail.messagingengine.com>

The BerkeleyTIP videos page is an excellent resource, & has links for
both specific videos, & links to sites that have GNU(Linux) & BSD [&
maybe Free HW & Free Culture] videos.

http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos

Also, re your question later in this thread, speedtest.net, use in the
firefox browser, needs flash, is a good tool for checcking your up &
down inet connection speed. IIRC, google for "stanford speedtest" used
to find me another useful tool.  IIRC, needed java, but not flash.

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:10:58 -0700, "Pewter Bot" <pewterbot9 at gmail.com>
said:
> Sparse pickings in youtube for Linux and Ubuntu videos, except "how to
> install" and "versus Windoze" stuff. So I'm wondering if anyone here
> can recommend a good site offering video instructions/tutorials/demos
> of Linux and Ubuntu related material. Thnx!
> 
> -- 
> Zeke Krahlin
> http://www.youtube.com/user/pewterbot9


From pewterbot9 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 20:38:28 2009
From: pewterbot9 at gmail.com (Pewter Bot)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:38:28 -0700
Subject: [buug] BerkeleyTIP, Speedtest -was Re:  Linux video sites?
In-Reply-To: <1238465887.22586.1308138773@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <a86954420903211610h3d221f83v1d3f260a6953671b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238465887.22586.1308138773@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <a86954420903302038m433649e2l654d4459d8fd8188@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:18 PM, john_re <john_re at fastmail.us> wrote:

{{ The BerkeleyTIP videos page is an excellent resource }}

Excellent, thanks! I've just begun creating my own "Linux Newbies" playlist:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=3CC63E6268CFB847

It even includes the latest "SVLUG Kernel Walkthrough", thanks to R.
Moen's alerting me to their site. Turns out their videos also appear
on youtube...which actually makes sense come to think on it. What I'll
do is see if the references you've cited have also uploaded there.
Otherwise, I'll just post links to their videos...or with their
permission, transfer them directly to my playlist.

{{ Also, re your question later in this thread, speedtest.net, use in
the firefox browser, needs flash, is a good tool for checking your up
& down inet connection speed. }}

Great! Being a newbie, I wasn't sure if this "broadband speed test" page:

http://www.testmy.net/

would give me an accurate read. I will be most interested on comparing
its results to those resources you've suggested.

Cheers, john_re! And always remember the following sage advice:

-- 
"A government is only as good as its operating system."


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar 30 20:46:37 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:46:37 -0700
Subject: [buug] BerkeleyTIP, Speedtest -was Re:  Linux video sites?
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903302038m433649e2l654d4459d8fd8188@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903211610h3d221f83v1d3f260a6953671b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238465887.22586.1308138773@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<a86954420903302038m433649e2l654d4459d8fd8188@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090331034637.GG10221@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (pewterbot9 at gmail.com):

> Otherwise, I'll just post links to their videos...or with their
> permission, transfer them directly to my playlist.

FYI:  The seven or so "SVLUG Kernel Walkthrough" video files are
available under a permissive licence, i.e., it's lawful to host copies
elsewhere, etc.  I don't remember whether the Web pages make that clear,
but we eventually got a statement from Google, Inc. to that effect.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar 30 21:33:14 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:33:14 -0700
Subject: [buug] Setting up torrent on wifi
In-Reply-To: <a86954420903231748j370996b8iea817ca9bf32f296@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a86954420903231748j370996b8iea817ca9bf32f296@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090331043313.GH10221@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (pewterbot9 at gmail.com):

> I need to know how to test what one's upload speed is, in order to
> find out. I guess. Is there a Linux command or application for this?

Sure.  For example, good ol' wget.


The problem with a lot of canned tools often recommended for this
purpose is that either (1) you're not entirely sure what they're
measuring (and if they're measuring it competently) or (2) what they
_are_ measuring isn't especially relevent.  This is particularly true
of tools that check in with a centralised server -- which was also the
key problem with the much-recommended "ShieldsUP!" firewall tester 
at Gibson Research.

So, a better tool, even though it suffers the huge disadvantage of
requiring you to _think_ a bit ;-> , is logic.  You start with the
knowledge that, between you and any Internet site of interest, there
will be some chain of routers.  You can see at least _most_ of those
routers, maybe all[1], using the traceroute and tcptraceroute
commands.[2] 

So, consider for example the download site linux.stanford.edu.  
I'm interested in some of the stuff here:
ftp://linux.stanford.edu/pub/mirrors/centos/5.2/isos/i386/ 

[rick at linuxmafia]
~ $ tcptraceroute linux.stanford.edu
Selected device eth1, address 198.144.195.186, port 59601 for outgoing packets
Tracing the path to linux.stanford.edu (171.64.64.37) on TCP port 80
(www), 30 hops max
 1  198.144.195.185  57.212 ms  57.032 ms  55.216 ms
 2  fe1-0.cr04-200p-sfo.unitedlayer.com (209.237.228.169)  55.162 ms 58.334 ms  57.139 ms
 3  Vlan501.br02-200p-sfo.unitedlayer.com (209.237.224.25)  54.765 ms 57.260 ms  58.840 ms
 4  Vlan902.br01-paix-pao.unitedlayer.com (207.7.129.73)  60.193 ms 68.455 ms  55.201 ms
 5  paix-px1--bungi-fe.cenic.net (198.32.251.57)  55.997 ms  59.144 ms 54.676 ms
 6  svl-dc1--sfo-px1-ge.cenic.net (198.32.251.224)  52.887 ms  53.588 ms 52.965 ms
 7  dc-svl-dc1--sfo-dc1-pos.cenic.net (137.164.22.34)  52.045 ms  51.142 ms  52.950 ms
 8  dc-svl-core1--svl-dc1-ge-1.cenic.net (137.164.46.208)  52.925 ms 53.053 ms  53.654 ms
 9  dc-svl-agg2--svl-core1-ge-1.cenic.net (137.164.46.200)  53.269 ms 52.747 ms  52.961 ms
10  dc-stanford--svl-agg2-ge.cenic.net (137.164.50.34)  52.838 ms 55.224 ms  54.225 ms
11  bbra-rtr.Stanford.EDU (171.64.1.134)  51.661 ms  54.434 ms  53.781 ms
12  * * *
13  linux.Stanford.EDU (171.64.64.37) [open]  54.053 ms  53.977 ms 56.639 ms
[rick at linuxmafia]
~ $



[rick at linuxmafia]
~ $ traceroute linux.stanford.edu
traceroute to linux.stanford.edu (171.64.64.37), 30 hops max, 40 byte
packets
 1  198.144.195.185 (198.144.195.185)  61.838 ms  66.276 ms  54.881 ms
 2  fe1-0.cr04-200p-sfo.unitedlayer.com (209.237.228.169)  57.556 ms 58.494 ms  56.917 ms
 3  Vlan501.br02-200p-sfo.unitedlayer.com (209.237.224.25)  58.380 ms 57.784 ms  55.594 ms
 4  Vlan902.br01-paix-pao.unitedlayer.com (207.7.129.73)  59.195 ms 58.626 ms  55.753 ms
 5  paix-px1--bungi-fe.cenic.net (198.32.251.57)  68.326 ms  63.371 ms 59.707 ms
 6  svl-dc1--sfo-px1-ge.cenic.net (198.32.251.224)  53.769 ms  53.242 ms 53.064 ms
 7  dc-svl-dc1--sfo-dc1-pos.cenic.net (137.164.22.34)  52.945 ms  73.101 ms  53.539 ms
 8  dc-svl-core1--svl-dc1-ge-1.cenic.net (137.164.46.208)  53.697 ms 53.765 ms  56.812 ms
 9  dc-svl-agg2--svl-core1-ge-1.cenic.net (137.164.46.200)  52.640 ms 52.571 ms  53.008 ms
10  dc-stanford--svl-agg2-ge.cenic.net (137.164.50.34)  54.243 ms 53.869 ms  52.983 ms
11  bbra-rtr.Stanford.EDU (171.64.1.134)  52.990 ms  52.167 ms  51.696 ms
12  * * *
13  linux.Stanford.EDU (171.64.64.37)  55.286 ms  54.179 ms  55.104 ms
[rick at linuxmafia]
~ $ 


Hey, pretty decent transit time -- about 50 milliseconds -- at each hop!

Sometimes, the delay on that very first step really stands out, e.g.,
1500 milliseconds or something like that -- sort of like living next to
a really fast, uncongested freeway but having a horribly potholed,
unpaved, long dirt driveway.

Now, watch what I get when I use wget to retrieve a modest CD ISO of
known size:

[rick at linuxmafia]
/tmp $ wget ftp://linux.stanford.edu/pub/mirrors/centos/5.2/isos/i386/CentOS-5.2-i386-netinstall.iso
--21:10:19--
ftp://linux.stanford.edu/pub/mirrors/centos/5.2/isos/i386/CentOS-5.2-i386-netinstall.iso
           => `CentOS-5.2-i386-netinstall.iso'
Resolving linux.stanford.edu... 171.64.64.37
Connecting to linux.stanford.edu|171.64.64.37|:21... connected.
Logging in as anonymous ... Logged in!
==> SYST ... done.    ==> PWD ... done.
==> TYPE I ... done.  ==> CWD /pub/mirrors/centos/5.2/isos/i386 ...  done.
==> PASV ... done.    ==> RETR CentOS-5.2-i386-netinstall.iso ... done.
Length: 8,054,784 (7.7M) (unauthoritative)

100%[====================================>] 8,054,784    101.94K/s ETA 00:00

21:11:38 (101.50 KB/s) - `CentOS-5.2-i386-netinstall.iso' saved
[8054784]

[rick at linuxmafia]
/tmp $


You're seeing there, at the "100%" line, the final state of a progress
metre.  Before that, it had showed the various stages in fetching of the
file, and kept updating the "ETA" in seconds, accordingly.

You will notice that the average download speed thus achieved was about
102 kB/second.

Now, of course, if you were paying attention to my point about there
being a chain of routers between my linuxmafia.com machine and
linux.stanford.edu, you might be wondering:  "Which of those hops was
the bottleneck?"  Good question.  The wget test doesn't, by itself,
identify which hop was the limiting factor.  I could be bottlenecked at
my local aSDL uplink to Raw Bandwidth Communications, my local IP
provider, _or_ I could be bottlenecked at any of the other roughly dozen
hops.  

If I'd been doing this test tomorrow, the release date for CentOS 5.3, 
the odds increase that I'd be bottlenecked at or next to the target
server -- as a result of the CentOS mirrors getting mobbed.

So, how do you tell where the bottleneck -- the limiting-factor router
hop -- is?  Good question.  One way of guesstimating is to _also_ try a
machine that you've determined to be a tiny number of network hops from
you -- the fewer the better.  For example, a little guesswork and poking
determines that Raw Bandwidth Communications (doing business as
Tsoft.net) operates a public ftp server, ftp.tsoft.net.  Let's see
whether it's network-close:

[rick at linuxmafia]
~ $ traceroute ftp.tsoft.net
traceroute to ftp.tsoft.net (198.144.192.42), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  198.144.195.185 (198.144.195.185)  55.220 ms  56.550 ms  57.398 ms
 2  shell.rawbw.com (198.144.192.42)  54.621 ms  57.051 ms  55.288 ms
[rick at linuxmafia]
~ $ 

[rick at linuxmafia]
~ $ tcptraceroute ftp.tsoft.net
Selected device eth1, address 198.144.195.186, port 59652 for outgoing packets
Tracing the path to ftp.tsoft.net (198.144.192.42) on TCP port 80 (www),
30 hops max
 1  198.144.195.185  92.442 ms  132.211 ms  56.450 ms
 2  shell.rawbw.com (198.144.192.42) [open]  54.705 ms  55.813 ms 57.228 ms
[rick at linuxmafia]
~ $


Wow, that's pretty darned close.  tcptraceroute and traceroute found
_two_ hops to get there, only.  (They also reveal that ftp.tsoft.net 
is an alias for shell.rawbw.com.)

Let's poke around and find a downloadable file of more than trivial
length (so that the average download speed has some hope of being
meaningful).  Ah, ftp://ftp.tsoft.net/pub/tsoft/pktdrvrs/ has one.  So:

[rick at linuxmafia]
/tmp $ wget ftp://ftp.tsoft.net/pub/tsoft/pktdrvrs/pktd11.zip
--21:24:45--  ftp://ftp.tsoft.net/pub/tsoft/pktdrvrs/pktd11.zip
           => `pktd11.zip'
Resolving ftp.tsoft.net... 198.144.192.42
Connecting to ftp.tsoft.net|198.144.192.42|:21... connected.
Logging in as anonymous ... Logged in!
==> SYST ... done.    ==> PWD ... done.
==> TYPE I ... done.  ==> CWD /pub/tsoft/pktdrvrs ... done.
==> PASV ... done.    ==> RETR pktd11.zip ... done.
Length: 435,420 (425K) (unauthoritative)

100%[====================================>] 435,420      102.44K/s ETA 00:00

21:24:55 (98.64 KB/s) - `pktd11.zip' saved [435420]

[rick at linuxmafia]
/tmp $ 


OK, so, in _this_ case, at least, my local download speed from just on
the other side of the aDSL link was just about identical to that from a
dozen hops further away on the Stanford campus:  104 kB/second, as
compared to 102 kB/second.

But tomorrow, CentOS release day, I'll bet there's a severe bog-down.

Now, sometimes you need to provide (or read) something in _bits_ per
second, instead of bytes.  There are eight bits to a byte
(conventionally).  There's a small amount of overhead added for traffic
control, but not as much as in modem days when you had start and stop
bits for serial signalling.  So, I'll leave it up to you what to
multiply wget's kB/second figures by.  It does assume that "k" is 1024
and "m" is 1024x1024, for whatever that's worth.


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar 30 23:10:02 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:10:02 -0700
Subject: [buug] Setting up torrent on wifi
In-Reply-To: <20090331043313.GH10221@linuxmafia.com>
References: <a86954420903231748j370996b8iea817ca9bf32f296@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090331043313.GH10221@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090331061002.GI10221@linuxmafia.com>

Ya want footnotes?  We got 'em.

> So, a better tool, even though it suffers the huge disadvantage of
> requiring you to _think_ a bit ;-> , is logic.  You start with the
> knowledge that, between you and any Internet site of interest, there
> will be some chain of routers.  You can see at least _most_ of those
> routers, maybe all[1], using the traceroute and tcptraceroute
> commands.[2] 

[1] Some router devices get configured to conceal their interfaces from 
probing utiltiies such as traceroute/tcptraceroute.  I happen to know
that's the case with some of the interfaces at Raw Bandwidth
Communications, my upstream link.

[2] Regular traceroute uses a series of UDP-type packets to probe each
step, reducing their time-to-live figures until "ICMP time exceeded"
gets returned.  (There's an option to use ICMP echo, instead, which
"ping" also uses.)  tcptraceroute is a separate implementation that sends 
TCP-type packets, instead of UDP.

Among the reasons it's useful to have both:  silly firewalls that try to 
block traceroutes, and ISP-shenanigans where they attempt to prioritise 
traceroute bitstreams to make their networks appear faster than they
really are.