From ezekielk at goct.net  Sat Mar  6 21:06:02 2010
From: ezekielk at goct.net (Ezekiel Krahlin)
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:06:02 -0800
Subject: [buug] Open Source Can Do No Harm
Message-ID: <20100306210602.1441710vvet4csso@webmail.gct21.net>

My latest blog entry; enjoy the hidden links in the images.

http://ezekielk.tblog.com/post/1970101628

-- 
"A government is only as good as its operating system."
   - Zeke Krahlin

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From itz at buug.org  Wed Mar 10 02:22:33 2010
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:22:33 -0800
Subject: [buug] bookmarks
In-Reply-To: <20100228202907.GJ9321@linuxmafia.com> (Rick Moen's message of
	"Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:29:07 -0800")
References: <874ol1p2wz.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<20100228195436.GG9321@linuxmafia.com>
	<87zl2tnmmw.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<20100228202907.GJ9321@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <87iq94fpcm.fsf@matica.localdomain>


I am sorry to report that this experiment has so far been an utter and
dismal failure.

These projects are there, but most of them look left for dead.
I'm afraid that a good part of our community _did_ get seduced by the
ready-made hosted services and concluded that a free alternative is not
needed.  

>From those that are alive, two made the quarterfinals: scuttle and getboo.
Both are PHP and exhibit problems typical to that tool.  In the case of
scuttle, despite the PHP nonsense, I was at least able to create a
bookmark.  But I at once saw that it doesn't do what I desperately need,
anyway: it doesn't allow me to search for multiple tags, so the tags
are just another form of tree hierarchy.  In the case of getboo, I don't
even get that far:  I can create a bookmark but not modify it with tags,
apparently due to database errors.  (It also won't even let me _try_ to
tag unless i make the bookmark public.)

If you can share your vi bookmark macros, I think I'm ready to try
them. :-P

-- 
Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org>
gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD 
fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5  BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD
Ham is for reading, not for eating.


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Mar 10 08:15:26 2010
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:15:26 -0800
Subject: [buug] bookmarks
In-Reply-To: <87iq94fpcm.fsf@matica.localdomain>
References: <874ol1p2wz.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<20100228195436.GG9321@linuxmafia.com>
	<87zl2tnmmw.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<20100228202907.GJ9321@linuxmafia.com>
	<87iq94fpcm.fsf@matica.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20100310161526.GL30862@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Ian Zimmerman (itz at buug.org):

> If you can share your vi bookmark macros, I think I'm ready to try
> them. :-P

Macros would be a good idea if you're doing a _lot_ of manipulation of
bookmarks, but I don't.  I just copy and paste one, once in a blue moon.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Mar 10 11:20:11 2010
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:20:11 -0800
Subject: [buug] bookmarks
In-Reply-To: <87iq94fpcm.fsf@matica.localdomain>
References: <874ol1p2wz.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<20100228195436.GG9321@linuxmafia.com>
	<87zl2tnmmw.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<20100228202907.GJ9321@linuxmafia.com>
	<87iq94fpcm.fsf@matica.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20100310192011.GJ19025@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Ian Zimmerman (itz at buug.org):

> I am sorry to report that this experiment has so far been an utter and
> dismal failure.

Just as a follow-up, the list of social-networking bookmark Web apps
at the bottom of http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html was just 
what I'd heard were open-source codebases in some way analous to Del.icio.us 
at the time I wrote the essay, quite a few years ago.  Almost zero
research went into that list.  Just checking http://freshmeat.net/ for
search text "bookmarks" finds many pages of other possibilities.

Naturally, some will prove unsuitable to particular individuals' needs, 
some are for the wrong OS, and some will turn out to be excessively
buggy, unfinished PHP projects.  However, at least they can be
investigated by motivated parties.



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Mar 15 06:33:28 2010
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 06:33:28 -0700
Subject: [buug] BALUG: TOMORROW!: Tu 2010-03-16: ScaleMP vSMP Foundation for
	SMP	presented by Nir Paikowsky and Kiran Thirumalai of ScaleMP
Message-ID: <20100315063328.875911y1t349yhpc@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG: TOMORROW!: Tu 2010-03-16: ScaleMP vSMP Foundation for SMP  
presented by Nir Paikowsky and Kiran Thirumalai of ScaleMP

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2010-03-16

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

For our 2010-03-16 BALUG meeting (next Tuesday!), we're excited to
present:

ScaleMP[1] vSMP Foundation for SMP[2] presented by Nir Paikowsky and
Kiran Thirumalai of ScaleMP

ScaleMP's vSMP Foundation software enables the creation of a single
virtual symmetric multiprocessing (SMP) system by aggregating, or
combining, multiple industry-standard x86 systems running off-the shelf
Linux - which can create a large virtual machine perfect for demanding
workloads. vSMP Foundation offers the following benefits to data centers
running Linux:
o scalable x86 SMP with up to 128 cores and 4TB RAM
o maintains cache coherency between individual boards using multiple
   advanced coherency algorithms
o utilizes all system storage and networking controllers to prove
   high-I/O system capabilities
o creates the required BIOS and ACPI environment to provide the OS (and
   the software stack above the OS) a coherent image of a single system
o up to 5X cost savings over traditional SMP systems

Nir Paikowsky is director of application and sales engineering for ScaleMP.
Kiran Thirumalai is Linux Kernel team lead for ScaleMP.

1. http://www.scalemp.com/
2. http://www.scalemp.com/smp

We will also have a supply of Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic Koala" CDs on hand for
our BALUG 2010-03-16 meeting.

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

                rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be
able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

                6:30pm
                Tuesday, March 16th, 2010 2010-03-16

                Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
                731 Grant Ave.
                San Francisco, CA 94108
                Easy PARKING:
                Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

http://www.balug.org/




From jammer at weak.org  Tue Mar 16 12:40:32 2010
From: jammer at weak.org (Weak.)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:40:32 -0700
Subject: [buug] Fwd: Women in Unix Community
References: <784590ea1003161231w19ca25f3p744bc751b51aed1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70AE8528-079D-4981-90CD-0EC281AF07F0@weak.org>

Hi folks,

Got this in my inbox, not sure who's attending these days, but figured  
I'd forward it along to the group...

-Jon

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Antonio Ortiz <antonio at kpfa.org>
> Date: March 16, 2010 12:31:30 PM PDT
> To: jammer at weak.org
> Subject: Women in Unix Community
>

> Dear Jammer,
>
> I work at KPFA Radio in their Operation's Dept and I also produce a  
> monthly show Digital Chronicles, last Sunday of the month.  The show  
> is dedicated to people and their relationship to technology.  It's  
> not really about the technology itself but people's personal  
> stories.  This month, I'm editing an interview that my colleague did  
> with Kirk McKusick and will use that for my show, but I really need  
> to find women in the Unix community because my show falls in  
> International Women's Month.  If there are any women in your user's  
> group who would be interested in talking with me as to why they got  
> into using Unix and how their perspective as women has changed the  
> Operating system, could you please pass my info along to them?
>
> Thank you,
>
> -- 
> Antonio Ortiz
> Engineering Assistant
> KPFA Radio 94.1 FM
> 1929 Martin Luther King Jr Way
> Berkeley, CA 94704
> (510) 848-6767 ext 467
> antonio at kpfa.org
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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Mar 16 13:22:17 2010
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:22:17 -0700
Subject: [buug]  Fwd: Women in Unix Community
Message-ID: <20100316132217.15176c2ur3micjk0@webmail.rawbw.com>

[Bcc: Cathy Malmrose CEO of ZaReason]

----- Forwarded message from jammer at weak.org -----
     Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:40:32 -0700
     From: Weak. <jammer at weak.org>
  Subject: [buug] Fwd: Women in Unix Community
       To: "buug at weak.org" <buug at weak.org>

Hi folks,

Got this in my inbox, not sure who's attending these days, but figured  
  I'd forward it along to the group...

-Jon

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Antonio Ortiz <antonio at kpfa.org>
> Date: March 16, 2010 12:31:30 PM PDT
> To: jammer at weak.org
> Subject: Women in Unix Community
>

> Dear Jammer,
>
> I work at KPFA Radio in their Operation's Dept and I also produce a   
> monthly show Digital Chronicles, last Sunday of the month.  The show  
>  is dedicated to people and their relationship to technology.  It's   
> not really about the technology itself but people's personal   
> stories.  This month, I'm editing an interview that my colleague did  
>  with Kirk McKusick and will use that for my show, but I really need  
>  to find women in the Unix community because my show falls in   
> International Women's Month.  If there are any women in your user's   
> group who would be interested in talking with me as to why they got   
> into using Unix and how their perspective as women has changed the   
> Operating system, could you please pass my info along to them?
>
> Thank you,
>
> -- 
> Antonio Ortiz
> Engineering Assistant
> KPFA Radio 94.1 FM
> 1929 Martin Luther King Jr Way
> Berkeley, CA 94704
> (510) 848-6767 ext 467
> antonio at kpfa.org


----- End forwarded message -----




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Wed Mar 17 08:13:32 2010
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:13:32 -0700
Subject: [buug] Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic Koala" i386 CDs @ BUUG
Message-ID: <20100317081332.41356kyqfle4wlk4@webmail.rawbw.com>

We'll have a supply of Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic Koala" i386 CDs on hand
for tomorrow's BUUG meeting (and likely also future BUUG meetings
until or a bit past when the next release is out).

Thanks to Jack Deslippe, Grant Bowman, and the
Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team
for making such CDs available and getting
them to BUUG and other [L]UGs.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Wed Mar 17 08:13:30 2010
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:13:30 -0700
Subject: [buug] Pearson Education User Group Program: Books
Message-ID: <20100317081330.11663m1ufg8j2z6s@webmail.rawbw.com>

These books arrived 2010-03-12, I should be bringing them to the
2010-03-18 BUUG meeting tomorrow.

A Practical Guide to Fedora and Red Hat Enterprise Linux
http://www.informit.com/title/0137060882
o By Mark G. Sobell
o Published Feb 11, 2010 by Prentice Hall.
o Copyright 2010
o Dimensions: 7-3/8 X 9-1/8
o Pages: 1224
o Edition: 5th
o Book ISBN-10: 0-13-706088-2 ISBN-13: 978-0-13-706088-7
o eBook (Watermarked) ISBN-10: 0-13-706349-0 ISBN-13: 978-0-13-706349-9

IT Systems Management
http://www.informit.com/title/0137025068
o By Rich Schiesser
o Published Jan 28, 2010 by Prentice Hall.
o Copyright 2010
o Dimensions: 7 X 9-1/4
o Pages: 600
o Edition: 2nd
o Book ISBN-10: 0-13-702506-8 ISBN-13: 978-0-13-702506-0



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Thu Mar 18 00:17:48 2010
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:17:48 -0700
Subject: [buug] Fwd: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletters
	--	January/February/March 2010
Message-ID: <20100318001748.1645371vmjfc4zc4@webmail.rawbw.com>

Well, ... they switched from sending (non-default, specifically set by
option) plain text to HTML again ... and effectively not including plain
text.  Sure, they use
Content-Type: multipart/alternative
but the body of the
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
section is blank, and the HTML version they include is designed to track
individual subscriber/referral clicks, etc. on essentially every URL.
It's also far too easy to take those URLs and know how to construct
change preferences / unsubscribe URL from them.  Well, actually looks
like they changed preference setting on me again, back to HTML ... I've
set it back to Text again ... so maybe next time they'll actually sent
plain text and not so quickly revert it to HTML again.  Anyway, in the
meantime I found HTML versions online:
http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/imprint_downloads/informit/usergroups/InformIT_UG
Newsletter_Jan10.html
http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/imprint_downloads/informit/usergroups/InformIT_UG
Newsletter_Feb10.html
http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/imprint_downloads/informit/usergroups/InformIT_UG
Newsletter_Mar10.html

references/excerpts:

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 11:40:01 -0800
From: InformIT <usergroups at informit.com>
Subject: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter -- January 2010

Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:52:26 -0800
From: InformIT <usergroups at informit.com>
Subject: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter -- February 2010

Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 13:07:45 -0800
From: InformIT <usergroups at informit.com>
Subject: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter -- March 2010




From ezekielk at goct.net  Thu Mar 18 02:11:58 2010
From: ezekielk at goct.net (Zeke Krahlin)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 02:11:58 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
Message-ID: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>

Another blog entry inspired by my association with some excellent  
folks. Enjoy!

http://zekeblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/18/seek-the-wisdom-of-our-elder-geeks/


-- 
Zeke Krahlin
https://zekeblog.wordpress.com


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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Mar 18 09:23:38 2010
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:23:38 -0700
Subject: [buug] Fwd: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletters
 --	January/February/March 2010
In-Reply-To: <20100318001748.1645371vmjfc4zc4@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20100318001748.1645371vmjfc4zc4@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20100318162338.GI19025@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> Well, ... they switched from sending (non-default, specifically set by
> option) plain text to HTML again ... and effectively not including plain
> text.  Sure, they use
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative
> but the body of the
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
> section is blank, and the HTML version they include is designed to track
> individual subscriber/referral clicks, etc. on essentially every URL.

This is a technique that's being sold to businesses by several Internet
marketing firms:  Constant Contact, Inc., VerticalResponse, Inc.,
Relevant Power, Inc.

Some otherwise worthwhile companies have been suckered into it for
sending bugged communications to customers:  Bonny Doon Vineyard,
Kepler's Books, even Kaiser Permanente Medical Group.  See:

http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/keplers-2008-10-23



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Mar 18 17:16:29 2010
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:16:29 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
Message-ID: <20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at goct.net):

> Another blog entry inspired by my association with some excellent  
> folks. Enjoy!
> 
> http://zekeblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/18/seek-the-wisdom-of-our-elder-geeks/

Zeke, I'm always unsure, when you provide a link to a new blog essay,
whether you're seeking comment or not.  You might, for all I know, just
be carrying out personal expression within your own space.  What follows
is under the assumption that you were hoping for public comment.

   I think what needs to be acknowledged, is Open Source's emergence
   from an earlier movement that was largely composed of renegade,
   left-wing, anti-establishment types.

I know a lot of those people. E.g., Richard Stallman's a friend of mine.
I wouldn't have a clue about the politics of more than one or two of
them, but they don't strike me as "renegade, left-wing,
anti-establishment types".  You take your cited statement as given, i.e.,
you don't bother to substantiate it, except to link to a rather fuzzy
Wikipedia article that doesn't support your notion.  So, no, that simply
is not correct, let alone "needing to be acknowledged".

And there's a broader point:  The free software movement has always been
purely and simply about _software freedom_.  You want to tie it to a
particular brand of broader politics, but claiming that is so doesn't
make it so:

   ...the original ideals of the FSF [include] distaste towards the
   status quo, which of course includes the corporate world -- as 
   well as Republicans, Libertarians, and other right-leaning types.

Well, no.  The concerns of FSF have always been orthogonal to all that,
and FSF has been "anti-corporate" only to the extent that corporations'
practices have often been among the primary obstacles to software
freedom.

   And from what I've just studied regarding this history, Open Source
   Software (OSS) established itself as separate from Free Software
   (FS), to assert a growing membership of business entrepreneurs and
   corporate interest.

That is approximately correct, although it would be more accurate to 
say, instead of "established itself as separate from free software",
that open source was established as a parallel marketing effort for the
same code and licensing, aiming to build on the success of the 1998
success at Netscape Communications, Inc. by promoting free software's 
advantages to business.[0]

However, you've misstated the nature of Richard's complaint about OSI.
Richard (and FSF) doesn't object in the least to "growing membership of
business entrepreneurs and corporate interest".  To the contrary,
Richard and FSF are delighted at anyone, portions of the corporate world
included, adopting free software.  Richard's gripe is that he thinks OSI
doesn't talk about freedom enough; that it is so focussed on pragmatic 
advantage that it fails to promote the reason why free software matters
and doesn't ultimately care about freedom at all.

(Richard is also personally pissed off -- with some considerable
justification -- at the fact that his and FSF's vital roles have tended
to get airbrushed out of history, and I rather suspect that a lot of his
animosity towards OSI and open source owes to that unfortunate fact.)

Now that we've seen eleven years of OSI history, I would personally say
that Richard's concern has lacked foundation.  OSI continues to strongly
enforce and defend the Open Source Definition to the best of its limited
ability, and the software territory described by the two groups'
semantic map, OSD and Richard's "four freedoms essay" (lately restyled
as the "Free Software Definition") continue to be the same with only
trivial and meaningless differences.[1]

I consider myself a longtime member of both the open source and free
software camps (a user and mentor but not advocate[2]), and that that is
the only logical stance given that both groups seek the exact same
result.  At the end of the day, after the rhetoric fades in the wind,
it's fundamentally all about code and licensing, licensing and code.

So, be anti-corporate, left-wing, and anti-establishment[3] if that
makes you happy -- hey, you're in Berkeley, after all -- but don't claim
that the Elder Geeks predominantly share your political and economic 
views, as I greatly doubt that is so.  


[0] Ego alert:  An article of mine covers this.  See:
http://www.itworld.com/print/36449

[1] There is no longer any software under ASPL 1.0, so FSF's differnce
of view about it with OSI no longer matters.

[2] http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/12/26/1040511127721.html


From ezekielk at goct.net  Fri Mar 19 02:47:11 2010
From: ezekielk at goct.net (Zeke Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:47:11 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20100319024711.49423rwxx4vclick@webmail.gct21.net>

Quoting Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>:

> Zeke, I'm always unsure, when you provide a link to a new blog essay,
> whether you're seeking comment or not.  You might, for all I know, just
> be carrying out personal expression within your own space.  What follows
> is under the assumption that you were hoping for public comment.

I would not provide a comment box if I only wanted to post my own  
ideas. Everyone is welcome to post their opinions, both pro and con  
and every shade in between. Thank you for your clarifying post here,  
you are certainly free to repost to my blog. I am not afraid of being  
criticised.

Again, thanks so much your your considerate reply, Mr.Moen!

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://zekeblog.wordpress.com


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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 19 09:26:24 2010
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:26:24 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319024711.49423rwxx4vclick@webmail.gct21.net>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319024711.49423rwxx4vclick@webmail.gct21.net>
Message-ID: <20100319162624.GB30862@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at goct.net):

> I am not afraid of being criticised.

Well, you know, I was not critising _you_, Zeke.  Thank heavens, it's
possible to examine the merits of what someone says without it being a
personal examination of the speaker.

If I'd wanted to say anything about you personally, it would have been
that you're a most excellent fellow -- who happened to have written a
piece projecting onto people I know some view about politics and
economics I'm pretty sure are not actually present.

-- 
Rick Moen                "Never substitute a slash for a solidus. 
rick at linuxmafia.com      You don't want to get letters from Victorian bankers."
McQ!  (4x80)                                              -- FakeAPStylebook


From ezekielk at goct.net  Fri Mar 19 11:06:08 2010
From: ezekielk at goct.net (Zeke Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:06:08 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20100319110608.1363375wyitqbrcw@webmail.gct21.net>

Quoting Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>:

> Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at goct.net):
> I know a lot of those people. E.g., Richard Stallman's a friend of mine.
> I wouldn't have a clue about the politics of more than one or two of
> them, but they don't strike me as "renegade, left-wing,
> anti-establishment types".  You take your cited statement as given, i.e.,
> you don't bother to substantiate it, except to link to a rather fuzzy
> Wikipedia article that doesn't support your notion.  So, no, that simply
> is not correct, let alone "needing to be acknowledged".

--From [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_stallman ]:

As a hacker in MIT's AI laboratory, Stallman worked on software  
projects like TECO, Emacs, and the Lisp Machine Operating System. He  
would become an ardent critic of restricted computer access in the  
lab, which at that time was funded primarily by the Defense Advanced  
Research Projects Agency. When MIT's Laboratory for Computer Science  
(LCS) installed a password control system in 1977, Stallman found a  
way to decrypt the passwords and sent users messages containing their  
decoded password, with a suggestion to change it to the empty string  
(that is, no password) instead, to re-enable anonymous access to the  
systems.

--end quote

I'd say that's pretty "renegade"...but only in the best,  
"free-thinker" sort of way.  Plus, his concept of a "free" operating  
system and "copyleft" I'd say, is rather anti status quo. Strikes me  
as a strong influence from the Free Speech Movement, known for its  
playful style of politics.

More quotes:

--
His uncompromising attitude on ethical issues concerning computers and  
software has caused some people to label him as radical and  
extremist....

In Venezuela, Stallman has delivered public speeches and promoted the  
adoption of free software in the state's oil company (PDVSA), in  
municipal government, and in the nation's military.
--

I'd say that's pretty renegade. Perhaps you would prefer a word or  
term that is not quite so controversial? Anywayz, there is the whole  
history of hackers, their challenges to the status quo, and  
participation in shaking down button-down corporate policy.

> Well, no.  The concerns of FSF have always been orthogonal to all that,
> and FSF has been "anti-corporate" only to the extent that corporations'
> practices have often been among the primary obstacles to software
> freedom.

Okay. That's anti-corporate in one significant way. Those who  
challenged this, such as R. Stallman, came out of the 60's influence,  
in large part. The hacker movement and evolution of free software seem  
to have largely been advanced by these types. I had the honore of  
working w/Andrew Fleugelman at PC World, back in 1985-86. He created  
the concept of freeware, and coined the term "shareware"...and wrote  
the first shareware utility, "PC Talk".

Nonetheless, allow me some time to pick over my essay with a fine  
tooth comb, and make whatever corrections you feel may be needed, for  
the sake of accuracy.


-- 
Zeke Krahlin
https://zekeblog.wordpress.com


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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 19 11:16:51 2010
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:16:51 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319110608.1363375wyitqbrcw@webmail.gct21.net>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319110608.1363375wyitqbrcw@webmail.gct21.net>
Message-ID: <20100319181651.GC30862@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at goct.net):

> I'd say that's pretty renegade. Perhaps you would prefer a word or
> term that is not quite so controversial? 

I'd say you're using 'renegade' as a bit of a weasel word.  And also,
you're hunting for data very selectively:

Richard urges _everyone_ to adopt free software.  If you send him to 
talk to the Texas Board of Education, he would go urge them to adopt
free software.  If you were to dig up and resurrect Generalissimo
Francisco Franco and his entire military government, and Richard 
heard about it, Richard would fly out and urge them to adopt free
software.

Richard tends to limit his advocacy of free software to days of the week
ending in 'y', and so far addresses only collections of featherless
bipeds, but I'm sure he'd be willing to be flexible about that, if any
disembodied brains from the planet Eddore happened by.

> Anywayz, there is the whole history of hackers, their challenges to
> the status quo, and participation in shaking down button-down
> corporate policy.

Says you.  I think it's pretty clear you're projecting in a pretty
fanciful fashion.

> Nonetheless, allow me some time to pick over my essay with a fine
> tooth comb, and make whatever corrections you feel may be needed,
> for the sake of accuracy.

Well, good luck, but your essay is mistaken at its core.




From ezekielk at goct.net  Fri Mar 19 12:59:05 2010
From: ezekielk at goct.net (Zeke Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 12:59:05 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20100319125905.165077ohk02zqrcw@webmail.gct21.net>

Quoting Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>:

> So, be anti-corporate, left-wing, and anti-establishment[3] if that
> makes you happy -- hey, you're in Berkeley, after all -- but don't claim
> that the Elder Geeks predominantly share your political and economic
> views, as I greatly doubt that is so.

That has not been my experience at all, with the "older set", not just  
from whom I've met personally, but also on various Internet discussion  
groups. For the most part, they all tend towers the moderate, and left  
of that. They tend to frown at things "google" and those who see only  
the dollar sign when discussing FS and OSS. I did not say that *all  
elder geeks are that way, just most...I'm sure there are *some on the  
right. But this turn towards conservative views among geeks is more  
recent, and not a phonomenon of the first wave...who are all as old as  
the hills by now.  :P

I don't think I'm at all unreasonable or inaccurate to describe the  
origins of the Free Software and Open Source movement as coming from  
the left, with main influence the Free Speech Movement. I've gone  
through more articles, which have only made me feel that much more  
confident, to describe Mr. Stallman as a political and social  
renegade...in the healthy sense of that phrase. And by extension, the  
entire birth of the personal computer, and explosion of hackers and  
free software:

Quote from [  
http://www.informationdelight.info/encyclopedia/entry/counter-culture ]:

In his essay ''From Satori to Silicon Valley'' (published 1986),  
cultural historian Theodore Roszak made the point that the Apple  
Computer emerged from within the West Coast counterculture. Roszak  
gives a bit of background on the development of the prototype models  
of these original home computers and on the two Steves' ( Steve  
Wozniak and Steve Jobs , the computer's developers) evolution toward  
being businessmen. In fact, a considerable number of early computing  
and networking pioneers ? after discovering LSD and roaming the  
campuses of UC Berkeley, Stanford, and MIT in the late 60s and early  
70s ? would emerge from this caste of social "misfits" to shape the  
modern world.

--

Quote from [  
http://www.datenteiler.de/translations/anarchy-and-source-code/ ]:

In Hackers, Levy wrote down the history of the hacker culture and the  
hacker ethics at MIT until its temporarily ending in 1984. The whole  
last chapter is concerned with Richard Stallman which Levy considers  
to be the last one of the true hackers. Stallman believes that the  
hacker culture at MIT was an example for a great and anarchistic  
organization that worked perfectly until it was eliminated. Stallman  
took the hacker culture as an example and founded a new community, the  
GNU Project, one important cornerstone of the Free Software Movement....

The new hackers were not really interested in the hacker ethic.  
Stallman had learned in the computer center of the MIT that an  
anarchist Institution was possible. But there was a lack of combatants  
because of the decentralization of the hackers by the home computer.  
In the beginning of the 1980?s Stallman felt like the last adherent of  
a dead movement with anarchistic principles. This movement he wanted  
to revitalize. With the free software movement the hacker culture was  
reborn and Stallman started to free the source code from proprietary  
licenses.

The free software movement with GNU, BSD and Open Source Initiative is  
the radical anarchistic criticism of today?s order of the intellectual  
property, not only in the liberal society of the United States but  
also in the whole globalized world. In contrast to the representatives  
of BSD or the market-economic anarchism of Eric Raymond from the OSI,  
Stallman postulates a corporate anarchism which expresses in relation  
to intellectual property freely adapted from the French anarchist  
Jean-Pierre Proudhon, that property is robbery....

The very thought of leaving markets and the exchange of property  
behind is as inconceivable to many people today as the enclosure and  
privatization of land and labor into property relations must have been  
more than half a millennium ago. (Rifkin 2000, 14)

Stallman and the GNU people of the free software movement do not only  
want to free software but also music and books from proprietary  
licenses. In an interview with Spiegel Online Stallman says why: ?I  
tend toward the left-wing anarchist idea that we should get together  
voluntarily and think about how we can care for all by cooperation.?  
(Klagges 1996).

--end quotes

Of course, not all elder geeks were direct participants of the  
counterculture, but most would admit, that's part of history, the  
origin of FS and OSS. The movers and shakers of the hacker world, and  
free software, were in most part, a product of the new-found freedom  
of the 60's, in its rebellion to shake off the extreme conformism so  
prevalent in the 50's.

I also question your conclusion that the ideological clash between FS  
and OSS is trivial at this point...when the very foundations of  
capitalism are now being questioned...and for darn good reason. Just  
watched M. Moore's "Capitalism: A Love Affair", and was impressed by  
his clarification of the real problem w/Capitalism, how it seeks  
profit for corporations w/no regard for its workers who made them  
rich. Actually, I think M. Moore didn't go far enough in citing the  
severity of the damage done...as all the folks on camera who were  
workers suffering the abuses of Corporate hegemony, look rather  
healthy and happy in spite of their demise. The worst examples of  
abuse on the film, struck me as a walk in the park, compared to the  
evil manifesting in real life, as more and more people lose their  
livelihoods, homes, health and even lives as a result of moneyed  
privileged over the common man.

Perhaps as official organizations, FSF and OSI have ironed out all  
their differences. But ideologically speaking, I don't think FS and  
OSS are such great bedfellows.

At this point of our discussion, I have only done perusal examination  
in regards to your challenges...and have found no real errors in my  
article. Perhaps my enthusiasm to counter those who see the 60's as  
nothing more than a trivial and ridiculous "hippie movement", has  
caused me to emphasize the left-wing influence. I find the Free Speech  
Movement a most vital and serious era that challenged the status quo  
back then...black equality, morality of war, poverty, abuse of women  
and minorities, and so on.

It is with great pride I consider the hacker/FS movement as one of the  
most wildly successful political and social movements springing out of  
the counterculture. OSS folks seem to have forgotten their origins at  
best, or trivialize them at worst...with no regard for the ethics of  
free software so carefully constructed by R. Stallman.

Now, maybe it's just that I haven't had my coffee for the day, and I  
need some more time and research to consider your informed viewpoint.  
To assure you: I will keep your remarks in mind over the next few  
weeks, and continue my research, and will make *any* changes to my  
article if I see your critique necessitates such, in order to be fair  
and true to Linux/FS history.

But for now, I feel the best solution between our two perspectives, is  
simply to post your original comment, to my blog entry, and let it  
stand.


-- 
Zeke Krahlin
https://zekeblog.wordpress.com


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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 19 13:47:46 2010
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:47:46 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319125905.165077ohk02zqrcw@webmail.gct21.net>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319125905.165077ohk02zqrcw@webmail.gct21.net>
Message-ID: <20100319204746.GT19025@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at goct.net):

> But for now, I feel the best solution between our two perspectives, is  
> simply to post your original comment, to my blog entry, and let it  
> stand.

I posted here (because I participate here); I did not post _there_
(having _not_ decided to participate in your or, frankly, any other
blog's comment feature).  It would not be polite on your part to copy
what I wrote to elsewhere without my saying it's OK.

So, don't do that.  It's really not nice.


> > So, be anti-corporate, left-wing, and anti-establishment if that
> > makes you happy -- hey, you're in Berkeley, after all -- but don't claim
> > that the Elder Geeks predominantly share your political and economic
> > views, as I greatly doubt that is so.
> 
> That has not been my experience at all, with the "older set", not just  
> from whom I've met personally, but also on various Internet discussion  
> groups. For the most part, they all tend towers [towards?] the
> moderate, and left of that.

I wouldn't doubt that you found what you claim:  For one thing, I rather
suspect there's a large element of selection bias in it.  I'll bet a lot
of those discussions were in major urban areas, predominantly in the Bay
Area, for starters, those being where throwing rocks at randomly selected 
adults is going hit targets that lean a bit left by nationwide standards, 
more often than not.  For another thing, they were people talking to
_you_, and you fairly exude 'I'm a lefty eccentric with a chip on my
shoulder and would be glad to talk about it', Zeke.  So, again,
selection bias.  The people _willing_ to unburden themselves to you (to
anyone, but specifically to you) on politico-economic matters would tend
to be heavily slanted towards being fellow freaks.  (I use the term with
affection, I hope you know.)

Knowing quite a lot of what you call Elder Geeks, it's difficult to
imagine having a conversation with most of them in which they would
willingly state their views on such things, and they sure as hell don't
volunteer same.  So, if you say you have taken the measure of some
non-zero number, I believe you, but do not believe either that you have 
creditable data on any significant number nor that those who chose to
speak with you are a valid sample.

And I really don't care if you attempt to hurl citations of Roszak,
Levy, and, for the love of Cthulhu, _Proudhon_.  You're talking about my
friends and acquaintances of some forty years, and, no matter how much
you try to use vague rhetoric about 'renegades', 'social misfits', and 'the
counterculture', you're simply factually wrong on your major point.


> I also question your conclusion that the ideological clash between FS  
> and OSS is trivial at this point.

That is _not_ what I said.  In fact, I said nothing at all about
'ideological clash', which is your obsession, not mine.  Shall we recap?

Richard has been going around since 1998 suggesting that OSI
fundamentally doesn't care about freedom, and cites as evidence the fact
that OSI representatives and proponents (according to him) don't _talk_
about freedom as an advantage of open source software, and instead
promotes its pragmatic advantages.  

Almost twelve years of OSI history have followed, during which OSI has
continued to maintain the same standards about what open source _is_
that FSF (and for that matter, Debian) has maintained for free software.
The groups' respective standards for what constitute open source and
free software are maps that describe the same territory of code and
licensing -- with the exact same concerns about non-royalty-free patents
and other encumbrances on software freedoms.

So, by any reasonable functional measure, they are two groups promoting
the exact same thing, promoting the exact same outcome, using differing
marketing programs.

You are approaching this subject like a classic ideologue[1], and therefore
you are acting like outcomes are irrelevant and the rhetoric is
everything.  I see things fundamentally differently:  It's all about
code and licensing, licensing and code.

Now, I've explained that matter twice.  I do not intend to go over it a
third time, so please pay attention to this one.


> At this point of our discussion, I have only done perusal examination  
> in regards to your challenges...

Plainly, especially given that you are attributing to me views I don't
hold and never articulated.  So, please do go have some coffee.

> ...and have found no real errors in my article. 

As I said, your error is a central and fundamental one of projecting
your own views onto others in the absence of supporting evidence.  There
is no point in attempting to vet small factual inclusions; it's the
basic thrust of the piece that's completely wrong.


[1] As suggested also by your treating free software and open source
as proper nouns, which they are not in the context in which you used
them -- a small but telling detail.

-- 
Cheers,                English is essentially a text parser's way of getting 
Rick Moen              faster processors built.
rick at linuxmafia.com    -- John M. Ford, http://ccil.org/~cowan/essential.html
McQ!  (4x80)


From ezekielk at goct.net  Fri Mar 19 14:22:43 2010
From: ezekielk at goct.net (Zeke Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:22:43 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319204746.GT19025@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319125905.165077ohk02zqrcw@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319204746.GT19025@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20100319142243.20912ny4kr7a4y04@webmail.gct21.net>

Quoting Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>:

> I posted here (because I participate here); I did not post _there_
> (having _not_ decided to participate in your or, frankly, any other
> blog's comment feature).  It would not be polite on your part to copy
> what I wrote to elsewhere without my saying it's OK.
>
> So, don't do that.  It's really not nice.

Perish the thought. I'm amused that you'd even post that I'd be likely  
to commit such an offense, rather than do so only with your  
permission. That does smak of intentional defamation. :(

> The people _willing_ to unburden themselves to you (to
> anyone, but specifically to you) on politico-economic matters would tend
> to be heavily slanted towards being fellow freaks.  (I use the term with
> affection, I hope you know.)

Actually, I usually get a lot of flack and harassment, since society  
has taken a broad swing to the right. I *rarely* receive favorable  
replies. But when I do, it all makes up for all the nastiness. I  
persist in taking a stand for what I know is right (that is, "left"),  
regardless of how many have betrayed their hearts, and now scorn  
common decency. This is indeed a culture war. But I also realize that  
sanity will eventually right itself, and I am only ahead of the  
times...or to put it another way, carrying the torch.

> And I really don't care if you attempt to hurl citations of Roszak,
> Levy, and, for the love of Cthulhu, _Proudhon_.  You're talking about my
> friends and acquaintances of some forty years, and, no matter how much
> you try to use vague rhetoric about 'renegades', 'social misfits', and 'the
> counterculture', you're simply factually wrong on your major point.

Stallman has consistently described himself as "left wing". You are  
being at least as ideological as I am. Stop pretending.

> That is _not_ what I said.  In fact, I said nothing at all about
> 'ideological clash', which is your obsession, not mine.  Shall we recap?

See what I get for posting before my first coffee! Your point is  
respected, just disagreed with. I do think *you* exaggerate my  
political bias to the point of stereotype. Which is *exactly* what I  
experience so much these days, even in the liberal Bay Area...with  
attempts to suppress anything and everything good about the 60's Free  
Speech Movement.

They may be your friends, but you are speaking for them in some ways  
antithetic to what they themselves have explicity stated.

You are quite incorrect in suggesting that posting your original  
comment to my blog entry would cause pro-Zeke biased comments to  
overtake yours. In fact, I am willing to let your comment stand, and  
look like a fool, myself as a result.

But if you don't want to have your remarks connected with my article,  
I can surely understand.

Sounds to me like a lot of right wing extremists have infiltrated  
various geek organizations, and possibly out of fear, older members  
are going along with the game, in order to have *some* presence and  
recognition. The downfall of the Weimar Repulic redux? I can hear the  
goosesteps approach my door, this very moment!

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.gay-bible.org
https://zekeblog.wordpress.com
http://blogs.alternet.org/hobohomo/

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From ezekielk at goct.net  Fri Mar 19 14:31:11 2010
From: ezekielk at goct.net (Zeke Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:31:11 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319204746.GT19025@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319125905.165077ohk02zqrcw@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319204746.GT19025@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20100319143111.143468u5ncgkfl7k@webmail.gct21.net>

Quoting Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>:

> And I really don't care if you attempt to hurl citations of Roszak,
> Levy, and, for the love of Cthulhu, _Proudhon_.

Another intentional skewing of my efforts to be fair. Defamation I'd  
say, to paint me as "hurling" politically biased ideas. I simply used  
a search engine to verify your statements, and my own findings. The  
results I found confirmed mine...I did not knowingly seek articles or  
comments based on any sort of ideology.

I have this sneaking suspicion you have not yet had *your* first cup of java.

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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 19 14:54:20 2010
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:54:20 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319142243.20912ny4kr7a4y04@webmail.gct21.net>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319125905.165077ohk02zqrcw@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319204746.GT19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319142243.20912ny4kr7a4y04@webmail.gct21.net>
Message-ID: <20100319215420.GU19025@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at goct.net):

> You are  being at least as ideological as I am. Stop pretending.

Fascinating, sir!  Please do tell us about my ideology, to whatever
level of detail you can manage:  I cannot recall having spoken to the
subject with you, here or anywhere else.  I'm quite sure I would have
remembered.


> Perish the thought. I'm amused that you'd even post that I'd be likely  
> to commit such an offense, rather than do so only with your  
> permission. 

Well, I'm personally _not_ amused -- since you merely announced
summarily that you were going to copy my writings, and didn't ask at
all.


> That does smak of intentional defamation. :(

Excuse me, but what the _hell_ are you talking about?  Nobody said
anything about 'defamation'.  


> Stallman has consistently described himself as "left wing". 

I've known Richard for well over a decade, and would have _guessed_ him
to be about as politically liberal as your average technology person
living in an apartment in downtown Cambridge, Massachusetts, but he
never talks about it, to the best of my recollection.

Anyway, the picture you paint of him as being motivated by 'anti-corporate' 
sentiments, etc., is delusional.  A huge number of his appearances have
been to corporate audiences, basically because that's one of the places
he can reach quite a number of major software users and developers all
at once.  Richard is motivated by a desire to advance the cause of
software freedom everywhere, not particularly by an onus against (or
for) some societal faction.  He's been really clear on this point, about
as clear as any human can possibly be.


> > That is _not_ what I said.  In fact, I said nothing at all about
> > 'ideological clash', which is your obsession, not mine.  Shall we
> > recap?
> 
> See what I get for posting before my first coffee! Your point is
> respected, just disagreed with. 

Then, why in Sam Hill did you misrepresent what I _said_?  You claimed
I'd asserted that 'the ideological clash between FS and OSS is trivial
at this point', which summary has absolutely nothing in common with what
I did say.

I have no problem whatsoever with your holding different views, or with
holding any views at all, but you seemed to have a big problem
understanding what you claim to disagree with, which -- I could be just
funny about this, but -- strikes me as a serious impediment to arriving
at well-informed views on anything.


> I do think *you* exaggerate my  political bias to the point of
> stereotype. 

Actually, I've said rather little about you personally.  I spoke to the
merits of your claim of fact.

Remember the distinction between speaker and claim?  It's one of the
ways we avoid descent into pointless and time-wasting interpersonal soap
opera.  Such as, I notice, tends to be indulged by people on the losing
side of arguments.  ;->
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-debate1


> They may be your friends, but you are speaking for them in some ways  
> antithetic to what they themselves have explicity stated.

I have not 'spoken for them' in any way whatsoever, and would appreciate
your not falsely so claiming.   I have merely accurately reported my 
impression of them, and its basis.



> You are quite incorrect in suggesting that posting your original  
> comment to my blog entry would cause pro-Zeke biased comments to  
> overtake yours. 

Er, I have not articulated this (rather bizarre) view, nor do I hold it.

Are you smoking the funny stuff, Zeke?  Not that I mind, but you seem to
be posting with a screw or two loose.



> But if you don't want to have your remarks connected with my article,  
> I can surely understand.

I said nothing about 'my remarks being connected with your article'.
Here is what I did say, one more time.  This time, kindly do bother to
_read_ it, and eschew the bullshit misrepresentations:

  I posted here (because I participate here); I did not post _there_
  (having _not_ decided to participate in your or, frankly, any other
  blog's comment feature).  It would not be polite on your part to copy
  what I wrote to elsewhere without my saying it's OK.

  So, don't do that.  It's really not nice.




From sami at juvonen.org  Fri Mar 19 15:00:57 2010
From: sami at juvonen.org (Sam Juvonen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:00:57 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319215420.GU19025@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>	<20100319125905.165077ohk02zqrcw@webmail.gct21.net>	<20100319204746.GT19025@linuxmafia.com>	<20100319142243.20912ny4kr7a4y04@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319215420.GU19025@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <4BA3F419.7090303@juvonen.org>

On 03/19/2010 02:54 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at goct.net):
>   

Can you please take this to personal email already. Pretty please.


From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 19 15:05:36 2010
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:05:36 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319143111.143468u5ncgkfl7k@webmail.gct21.net>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319125905.165077ohk02zqrcw@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319204746.GT19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319143111.143468u5ncgkfl7k@webmail.gct21.net>
Message-ID: <20100319220536.GV19025@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at goct.net):

> Quoting Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>:
> 
> > And I really don't care if you attempt to hurl citations of Roszak,
> > Levy, and, for the love of Cthulhu, _Proudhon_.
> 
> Another intentional skewing of my efforts to be fair. Defamation I'd  
> say, to paint me as "hurling" politically biased ideas.

I think you very seriously need to chill out.

However, if you are seriously asserting that I've been committing the
civil-law tort of defamation of character, I will be glad to give you
contact details of my family attorney for service of process, as I
respect people's need to go to court occasionally on serious matters.
I'm hoping you at least know what the term 'defamation' means, albeit
this has all the hallmarks of unbelievably stupid Internet drama.

Having had my teenage years consumed by a Federal lawsuit against Boeing
Corporation over wrongful death at Christmas 1968 of one Arthur Moen,
captain for Pan American World Airways, which wrongful death left me
short qty. one parent, I know that litigation is an _extremely_ serious
matter.  I frankly suspect you, in contrast, have absolutely no idea and
regard it as a reasonable matter on which to just casually mouth off
without consequence.



From ezekielk at goct.net  Fri Mar 19 18:17:15 2010
From: ezekielk at goct.net (Zeke Krahlin)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:17:15 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <4BA3F419.7090303@juvonen.org>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319125905.165077ohk02zqrcw@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319204746.GT19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319142243.20912ny4kr7a4y04@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319215420.GU19025@linuxmafia.com> <4BA3F419.7090303@juvonen.org>
Message-ID: <20100319181715.18596jtqrtlei680@webmail.gct21.net>

Quoting Sam Juvonen <sami at juvonen.org>:

> Can you please take this to personal email already. Pretty please.

I'm surprised Rick even posted his original remark to this list, as it  
seems to be one for discussing technical matters and meeting  
announcements...not political issues, or rants. That's what my blog is  
for, too...for those in BUUG or Berkeley-LUG to bring up political  
discussions et al, instead of bother their main lists.

This is my last comment in this thread, so no worries.

-- 
Zeke Krahlin
https://zekeblog.wordpress.com


----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 19 18:37:55 2010
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:37:55 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <20100319181715.18596jtqrtlei680@webmail.gct21.net>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319125905.165077ohk02zqrcw@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319204746.GT19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319142243.20912ny4kr7a4y04@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319215420.GU19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<4BA3F419.7090303@juvonen.org>
	<20100319181715.18596jtqrtlei680@webmail.gct21.net>
Message-ID: <20100320013755.GX19025@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at goct.net):

> I'm surprised Rick even posted his original remark to this list, as it  
> seems to be one for discussing technical matters and meeting  
> announcements...not political issues, or rants. 

Discussion of open source, free software, the OSI, the Free Software
Foundation, and Richard M. Stallman might indeed be off-topic.  Novel
concept, but possible.

But I don't think I'm going to ask how your posting either of your
recent blog links complies with your own criteria.  ;->

-- 
Cheers,                              Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj.
Rick Moen
rick at linuxmafia.com
McQ!  (4x80)


From grayarea at reddagger.org  Fri Mar 19 18:47:19 2010
From: grayarea at reddagger.org (John Withers)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:47:19 -0700
Subject: [buug] Seek the Wisdom Of Our Elder Geeks
In-Reply-To: <4BA3F419.7090303@juvonen.org>
References: <20100318021158.633558of5utu4jok@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319001629.GN19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319125905.165077ohk02zqrcw@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319204746.GT19025@linuxmafia.com>
	<20100319142243.20912ny4kr7a4y04@webmail.gct21.net>
	<20100319215420.GU19025@linuxmafia.com> <4BA3F419.7090303@juvonen.org>
Message-ID: <1269049639.10922.11.camel@Frank-Brain>

Oh, hells no! This is the most fun I have had lurking on this list in
years. Crap, I am thinking of coming back to the actual meetings after
years just cause this is so much fun to watch!

john

On Fri, 2010-03-19 at 15:00 -0700, Sam Juvonen wrote:
> On 03/19/2010 02:54 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> > Quoting Zeke Krahlin (ezekielk at goct.net):
> >   
> 
> Can you please take this to personal email already. Pretty please.
> _______________________________________________
> Buug mailing list
> Buug at weak.org
> http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug



From itz at buug.org  Sat Mar 20 10:24:52 2010
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:24:52 -0700
Subject: [buug] [plug] pyrinox-1.1.1 is released
Message-ID: <874okaucrf.fsf@matica.localdomain>


>From the README:

pyrinox is a fast non-graphical audio CD ripper in the style of abcde.
It tries to get on with the business of ripping data as fast as possible
and not to bother its users with excessive interactions or pretty
(but slow) GUI.

Here:

http://primate.net/~itz/pyrinox/

-- 
Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org>
gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD 
fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5  BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD
Ham is for reading, not for eating.


From itz at buug.org  Sun Mar 21 00:34:29 2010
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:34:29 -0700
Subject: [buug] [plug] pyrinox-1.1.1 is released
In-Reply-To: <191015.45015.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> (miguel lito's
	message of "Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:13:47 -0700 (PDT)")
References: <874okaucrf.fsf@matica.localdomain>
	<191015.45015.qm@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87sk7uku0q.fsf@matica.localdomain>

>>>>> "miguel" == miguel lito <spammethehardest at yahoo.com> writes:

miguel> does it encode tags and grab album art?

Tags yes, art no.  I have no need for that since I play them in a
terminal mode player :-P

You can also start with a bunch of WAV files and provide tags yourself.
This is useful for ripping from analog media (tapes).  Not sure how I
would handle art in that case.  Definitely not by creating it myself,
LOL.

The next planned improvement is to start talking CDDB protocol level 6,
which will make it possible to accept arbitrary Unicodes for tags (right
now it is limited to latin-1).

-- 
Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org>
gpg public key: 1024D/C6FF61AD 
fingerprint: 66DC D68F 5C1B 4D71 2EE5  BD03 8A00 786C C6FF 61AD
Ham is for reading, not for eating.


From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Wed Mar 31 23:39:36 2010
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:39:36 -0700
Subject: [buug] BALUG NEWS: 2010-04-20: Sameer Verma on: One Laptop per
	Child	(OLPC) Project: Plan, Updates, Direction, Participation;
	+ other news
Message-ID: <20100331233936.189135495yvco0cg@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG NEWS: 2010-04-20: Sameer Verma on: One Laptop per Child (OLPC)  
Project: Plan, Updates, Direction, Participation; + other news

------------------------------

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2010-04-20

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

For our 2010-04-20 BALUG meeting, we're excited to present:

Sameer Verma[1] on: One Laptop per Child (OLPC)[2] Project: Plan,  
Updates, Direction, Participation.

This presentation will address updates from the OLPC project (hardware,
software, networks, schools, teachers, children, parents, etc), its
achievements thus far (what works and what does not) and where it is
headed in the near future (yes, its still alive).  We will also look at
how various communities (such as BALUG) can participate in the
educational, technological and social contexts.

Profess by day, tinker by night.  Dr. Sameer Verma is an associate
professor of Information Systems[3] in the College of Business[4] at
San Francisco State University[5].  His research revolves around the
diffusion and adoption of innovative technologies.  He also teaches a
course titled "Managing Open Source" at San Francisco State University.
In his free time, Sameer volunteers with One Laptop Per Child by
organizing activities for the OLPC-San Francisco Bay Area[6] group.  He
also runs his laptops, desktops, servers, tablets, phones, media
systems, and car music player on Linux.  The toaster sadly remains
unconverted (any day now).

1. http://verma.sfsu.edu/
2. http://laptop.org/
3. http://is.sfsu.edu/
4. http://cob.sfsu.edu/cob/
5. http://www.sfsu.edu/
6. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_San_Francisco_Bay_Area

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

                 rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be
able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

                 6:30pm
                 Tuesday, April 20th, 2010 2010-04-20

                 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
                 731 Grant Ave.
                 San Francisco, CA 94108
                 Easy PARKING:
                 Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13
       cash, we give you a gift of dinner ticket to join us for a yummy
       family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also
       helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to
       defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner).

------------------------------

Door prizes?  Giveaways?  We don't necessarily have such items at every
meeting, but we do often have giveaways and/or door prize items.  E.g.
at our 2010-03-16 meeting, over 14% of our of our attendees that donated
$13 (and for which we provide gift of dinner and dinner/door prize
raffle ticket) walked away with a brand new
iPod shuffle 4GB Silver (MB867LL/B) [MSRP $79][7]
courtesy of ScaleMP[8] - see also information on our 2010-03-16 meeting
presentation further below.
7. http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_ipod/family/ipod_shuffle
8. http://www.scalemp.com/

We will have a supply of Ubuntu[9] 9.10 "Karmic Koala" i386 CDs on hand
for our BALUG 2010-04-20 meeting, made possible by Ubuntu California[10]
and other contributors/volunteers.  We may have other stuff too.
9. http://www.ubuntu.com/
10. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam

------------------------------

Missed our 2010-03-16 meeting, or want to review materials from that
meeting?

The "slides"/deck from the talk/presentation on
ScaleMP vSMP Foundation for SMP presented by Nir Paikowsky of ScaleMP
are available online:
http://www.archive.balug.org/2010/2010-03-16/ScaleMP_Technical_Introduction.pdf
The earlier announcement on that talk/presentation:
http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-announce-balug.org/2010-March/000147.html

------------------------------

"Working in the Business" (Linux/...) panel discussion

We're working on putting together a panel discussion on working in the
business - Linux and related areas - with emphasis on Linux and Open
Source and in the San Francisco Bay Area, but we may also include
related areas and comparisons (systems/network/database/security
administration, programming/development Open Source and other
environments, comparisons to other regions, etc.).  We're interested in
potentially and and/or all of (for the relevant areas):
o hiring managers
o Human Resources personnel
o persons with significant work experience in relevant areas
o recruiters
o agency client representatives
o persons newly experienced entering the field (e.g. new degree within
   last 2 years)
o persons with significant experience with any and/or all of the above
   (needn't necessarily be currently in the position)
o panel moderator - person who can well wrangle and moderate a
   collection of the above folks

ARE YOU OR DO YOU KNOW SOMEONE that you'd recommend for such a panel?
If so, please drop us a note, including
"Working in the Business" in the Subject
and email to: balug-panel-2010 at balug.org
and with your name and contact information, and if you're recommending
someone other than or in addition to yourself, please mention that and
include their name and contact information.
We'll follow-up with more information.

------------------------------

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

------------------------------

http://www.balug.org/