From itz at buug.org  Thu Aug  4 09:50:13 2016
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:50:13 -0700
Subject: [buug] GPG signing?
Message-ID: <20160804164736.6616.14F27334@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>

I'd like to add a new ID to my existing GPG key and have it signed by a
few well-connected folks.  I'll bring the requisite information to the
BUUG meeting tonight, and I'd also welcome hints on how to meet more
signers.

i

-- 
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Why does the arrow on Hillary signs point to the right?

From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Thu Aug  4 23:36:48 2016
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 23:36:48 -0700
Subject: [buug] GPG signing?
In-Reply-To: <20160804164736.6616.14F27334@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
References: <20160804164736.6616.14F27334@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
Message-ID: <20160804233648.13146vakqe1zo1es@webmail.rawbw.com>

Sorry I wasn't able to make it ... earlier today was hoping I would.

There is also, biglumber.com, and also the
Bay Area Keysigning list:
http://zer0.org/mailman/listinfo/ba-keysign/

> From: "Ian Zimmerman" <itz at buug.org>
> Subject: [buug] GPG signing?
> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:50:13 -0700

> I'd like to add a new ID to my existing GPG key and have it signed by a
> few well-connected folks.  I'll bring the requisite information to the
> BUUG meeting tonight, and I'd also welcome hints on how to meet more
> signers.
>
> i
>
> --
> Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
> Why does the arrow on Hillary signs point to the right?
> _______________________________________________
> buug mailing list
> buug at buug.org
> http://buug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/buug
>




From itz at buug.org  Sat Aug  6 19:31:22 2016
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 19:31:22 -0700
Subject: [buug] Test!
Message-ID: <20160807023008.23840.3AEF6D88@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>

This posting is different.  Will it matter to the list manager?

-- 
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Why does the arrow on Hillary signs point to the right?

From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sun Aug  7 09:04:22 2016
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2016 09:04:22 -0700
Subject: [buug] Test!
In-Reply-To: <20160807023008.23840.3AEF6D88@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
References: <20160807023008.23840.3AEF6D88@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
Message-ID: <20160807090422.16591s9ed56bgtfk@webmail.rawbw.com>

> From: "Ian Zimmerman" <itz at buug.org>
> Subject: [buug] Test!
> Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 19:31:22 -0700

> This posting is different.  Will it matter to the list manager?

Hmmm, not sure - perhaps/probably not an issue.  I received it okay.
Is the base64 encoding really needed though?  Wouldn't
plain text ASCII, or quoted printable generally suffice, and
make for easier backward compatibility with anyone using some
old/ancient email client?

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Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 19:31:22 -0700
From: Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org>
To: buug at buug.org
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From itz at buug.org  Sun Aug  7 10:29:38 2016
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 10:29:38 -0700
Subject: [buug] Test!
In-Reply-To: <20160807090422.16591s9ed56bgtfk@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20160807023008.23840.3AEF6D88@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
 <20160807090422.16591s9ed56bgtfk@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20160807171226.4239.14492476@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>

On 2016-08-07 09:04 -0700, Michael Paoli wrote:

> > This posting is different.  Will it matter to the list manager?
> 
> Hmmm, not sure - perhaps/probably not an issue.  I received it okay.

The point of the test was that I stopped passing -f to sendmail, which I
expected to result in the envelope sender being different from the
subscribed address.  And indeed that's what happened when I later did
the same on a different mailing list (and it worked there, too).  I am
unsure if I should do the test on all of my ~30 subscribed lists.

In this case, though, I forgot that the list serving host and the
submission host were the same :-) [1] so there was no SMTP hop at this
stage, and no opportunity for the envelope to be rewritten.

> Is the base64 encoding really needed though?  Wouldn't
> plain text ASCII, or quoted printable generally suffice, and
> make for easier backward compatibility with anyone using some
> old/ancient email client?

I believe I am innocent here.  The local copy saved by mutt is indeed
plain ASCII, unencoded.  It must be the list server doing that, possibly
only in cases of local submission.

[1] acedia.primate.net

-- 
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Why does the arrow on Hillary signs point to the right?

From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sun Aug  7 11:13:47 2016
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2016 11:13:47 -0700
Subject: [buug] Test! (& base64 encoding)
In-Reply-To: <20160807171226.4239.14492476@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
References: <20160807023008.23840.3AEF6D88@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
 <20160807090422.16591s9ed56bgtfk@webmail.rawbw.com>
 <20160807171226.4239.14492476@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
Message-ID: <20160807111347.43671bw5wajwm0zo@webmail.rawbw.com>

Yes, might be the list, ... or something else along the chain that
did that encoding.  I didn't/don't exactly get it straight SMTP from  
listserver
to my inbox/mbox, so also possible something along there might have  
changed that,
and that might also be conditional upon content (e.g. may only be  
under certain
circumstances that it triggers that (re)encoding of the content.

> From: "Ian Zimmerman" <itz at buug.org>
> Subject: Re: [buug] Test!
> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 10:29:38 -0700

> On 2016-08-07 09:04 -0700, Michael Paoli wrote:
>
>> Is the base64 encoding really needed though?  Wouldn't
>> plain text ASCII, or quoted printable generally suffice, and
>> make for easier backward compatibility with anyone using some
>> old/ancient email client?
>
> I believe I am innocent here.  The local copy saved by mutt is indeed
> plain ASCII, unencoded.  It must be the list server doing that, possibly
> only in cases of local submission.


From itz at buug.org  Sun Aug  7 11:19:30 2016
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 11:19:30 -0700
Subject: [buug] Free beer, functional, non-Google webmail
Message-ID: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>

Is there any?

By non-Google, of course I also mean non-Yahoo, non-Microsoft, etc.  For
a while I was happy with tutanota [1] but their latest version is broken
on my mobile device, both the "app" and in the browser.  And of course
that is precisely the use case I need this for.

[1]
https://tutanota.com

-- 
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Why does the arrow on Hillary signs point to the right?

From ludovic at mozilla.com  Sun Aug  7 13:05:10 2016
From: ludovic at mozilla.com (Ludovic Hirlimann)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 22:05:10 +0200
Subject: [buug] Free beer, functional, non-Google webmail
In-Reply-To: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
References: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
Message-ID: <86e30d63-c4c4-74b1-c7df-42b1074741a5@mozilla.com>

fast.fm ?


On 07/08/2016 20:19, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> Is there any?
>
> By non-Google, of course I also mean non-Yahoo, non-Microsoft, etc.  For
> a while I was happy with tutanota [1] but their latest version is broken
> on my mobile device, both the "app" and in the browser.  And of course
> that is precisely the use case I need this for.
>
> [1]
> https://tutanota.com
>

-- 
:Usul in #moc on irc.mozilla.org
Mozilla Operation Center
<3 ipv6 , <3 Gaming , <3 OSS
http://sietch-tabr.tumblr.com


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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Aug  7 16:38:43 2016
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 16:38:43 -0700
Subject: [buug] Free beer, functional, non-Google webmail
In-Reply-To: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
References: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
Message-ID: <20160807233843.GN20608@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Ian Zimmerman (itz at buug.org):

> Is there any?
> 
> By non-Google, of course I also mean non-Yahoo, non-Microsoft, etc.  For
> a while I was happy with tutanota [1] but their latest version is broken
> on my mobile device, both the "app" and in the browser.  And of course
> that is precisely the use case I need this for.

1.  Run your own mail.
2.  Use your choice of offerings in 'Webmail' on
    http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Mail/ to provide the Web interface.

Many people seem to like RoundCube.

(I sure wish it weren't PHP, though.)


From itz at buug.org  Sun Aug  7 18:04:06 2016
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 18:04:06 -0700
Subject: [buug] Free beer, functional, non-Google webmail
In-Reply-To: <20160807233843.GN20608@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
 <20160807233843.GN20608@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20160808005623.3680.18A6D46E@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>

On 2016-08-07 16:38 -0700, Rick Moen wrote:

> 1.  Run your own mail.

Sure, I do already.  Have done so for a long time.

> 2.  Use your choice of offerings in 'Webmail' on
>     http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Mail/ to provide the Web interface.

Trouble is, I don't want to run a webserver.

prayer almost fits the bill because it is standalone, but still requires
an IMAP server while now I get by nicely with just syncing the store and
reading mail locally.  And, in my (admittedly short) experience, you
can't safely mix the two modes (local and IMAP) on the same store, so I
would have to complicate matters further by copying the mail I want to
read via IMAP to a separate place.

-- 
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Why does the arrow on Hillary signs point to the right?

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Aug  7 18:45:20 2016
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 18:45:20 -0700
Subject: [buug] Free beer, functional, non-Google webmail
In-Reply-To: <20160808005623.3680.18A6D46E@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
References: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
 <20160807233843.GN20608@linuxmafia.com>
 <20160808005623.3680.18A6D46E@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
Message-ID: <20160808014520.GP20608@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Ian Zimmerman (itz at buug.org):

> Sure, I do already.  Have done so for a long time.

I was just saying that because others seemed to think you were looking
to outsource to a webmail service.

> Trouble is, I don't want to run a webserver.

Webmail without a Web server?  Ah, OK, you want a single piece of
software that is an integrated ('standalone') webmail+httpd thing?

How 'bout you configure nginx or Lighttpd to offer only webmail serviced
by RoundCube or Prayer or whatever you prefer, and _pretend_ that it
arrived integrated?  ;->

> prayer almost fits the bill because it is standalone, but still requires
> an IMAP server while now I get by nicely with just syncing the store and
> reading mail locally. 

I see that it's in C and functions as an HTTP to IMAP gateway.  Need to
add that to the Webmail page in my knowledgebase.  Thanks.

Your choices may be further constrained by your preference in file
format for local mail on your MTA, i.e., Maildir vs mbox.  

OpenWebmail (http://openwebmail.org/) can read mbox files directly
without needing an IMAPd.  It does need an httpd, though, and is written
in Perl.


From exequeryphil at gmail.com  Sun Aug  7 21:13:41 2016
From: exequeryphil at gmail.com (Philip)
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 21:13:41 -0700
Subject: [buug] Free beer, functional, non-Google webmail
In-Reply-To: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
References: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
Message-ID: <CALpVqO=S93YxGD_TFFjSU=1kXm2jKaSdRZ=PdQ7-NpQ+nZP-7w@mail.gmail.com>

https://lumail.lu/

I've used this before.

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Ian Zimmerman <itz at buug.org> wrote:

> Is there any?
>
> By non-Google, of course I also mean non-Yahoo, non-Microsoft, etc.  For
> a while I was happy with tutanota [1] but their latest version is broken
> on my mobile device, both the "app" and in the browser.  And of course
> that is precisely the use case I need this for.
>
> [1]
> https://tutanota.com
>
> --
> Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
> Why does the arrow on Hillary signs point to the right?
> _______________________________________________
> buug mailing list
> buug at buug.org
> http://buug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/buug
>
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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Aug 15 07:40:52 2016
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 07:40:52 -0700
Subject: [buug] BALUG: Meeting: Tomorrow Tu 2016-08-16; & other BALUG News
Message-ID: <20160815074052.205010ovhx3x8k1w@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG: Meeting: Tomorrow Tu 2016-08-16; & other BALUG News

------------------------------

items, details further below:
BALUG meeting Tu 2016-08-16
giveaways (Books & other titles, CDs/DVDs, ...)
Upcoming BALUG list changes?!
help BALUG! :-) - volunteering, venue, ...
Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

For our 2016-08-16 BALUG meeting:

At least presently we don't have a specific speaker/presentation lined
up for this meeting, but that doesn't prevent us from having
interesting and exciting meetings and discussions.  Sometimes we also
manage to secure/confirm a speaker too late for us to announce or fully
publicize the speaker (that's happened at least twice in the past).
Got questions, answers, and/or opinions?  We typically have some
expert(s) and/or relative expert(s) present to cover Linux and related
topic areas.  Want to hear some interesting discussions on LINUX and
other topics?  Show up at the meeting, and feel free to bring an agenda
if you wish.  Want to help ensure BALUG has speakers/presentations
lined up for future meetings?  Help refer speakers to us and/or
volunteer to be one of the speaker coordinators.  Great food and
people, and interesting conversations to be had.
So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

                         rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help
BALUG and our venue plan for the meeting and accommodations, so please
let us know.

    6:30pm Tuesday, August 16th, 2016 2016-08-16
    Henry's Hunan Restaurant
    110 Natoma St. (between 2nd & New Montgomery)
    San Francisco, CA 94105-3704
    1-415-546-4999
    http://www.henryshunanrestaurant.com/
    Easy Transit/Parking Access: short walk from BART, MUNI, parking
       Trip planning:  http://www.511.org/

Delicious Hunan cuisine and reasonably priced.

Meeting Details...

Cost/Dining:
     The meetings are always free, but dinner is not (unless you are our
     guest speaker, in which case we also treat you to dinner).  For
     Henry's Hunan Restaurant, if folks are agreeable, we'll share and
     dine "family" style, and split up the costs, and typical cost per
     person including tax and tip (but not including beverages beyond
     complementary tea) would be in the $13.00 to $17.50 range, and
     commonly around $15.00 to $16.50.  Cash may be preferred to ease
     splitting up the check.  One can also specifically order the
     dish(es) one needs/prefers (e.g. for dietary considerations) - and
     we also commonly order some dish(es) that may meet various dietary
     considerations) (e.g. vegetarian, non-pork, ...).  Please arrive by
     7:00 P.M., we expect to order entrees at that time, and may order
     appetizer(s) and/or soup(s) anytime after 6:30 P.M.

------------------------------

We typically have various giveaway items at BALUG meetings.  We'll
likely have at least the below plus additional items.

Books and other titles!
have a look/read here:
https://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:books_and_publications

CDs/DVDs/ISOs, etc. - have a peek here:
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc
We may also be able to "burn" images per request or copy to USB flash,
etc.  Donations of blank or +-RW media, USB flash, or funding thereof,
also appreciated.  See the above URL for details (and the inventory
(qty.) of what we specifically have "burned" and available on-hand does
also frequently change).

------------------------------

Upcoming BALUG list changes?!

Yes, for the past many years, much of BALUG, including our lists, has
been and is still presently hosted on DreamHost.com.  We will be
changing that in the not-too-horribly-distant-future.  (primary
volunteer on this has been buried under some other stuff to attend to,
so taking a bit longer.) We'll update on status when that's about to
change and when it does change.  We'll provide more details as we
approach and go through that transition, and we'll make it as painless
as feasible.

------------------------------

help BALUG! :-) - volunteering, venue ...

You can do useful and cool stuff volunteering to help BALUG,
e.g. following up on many leads for possible venue, among many other
possibilities.

Quite a variety of opportunities to help BALUG.  Come talk to us at a
meeting and/or drop us a note at: balug-contact at balug.org
These opportunities may include, among other possibilities:
o venue arrangement (e.g. followup on potential leads
   on-site coordination/preparations), see also:
http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-admin-balug.org/2014-July/001504.html
o chief/assistant cat herder
o assist on speaker coordination/procurement, etc.
o assist on publicity
o Linux Systems Administration (e.g. do/assist/learn, with/under some
     quite experienced and skilled Linux systems administrator(s)).
o webmaster, assistant webmaster, designer, graphic artist
o archivist/history/retrieval/etc.
o and other various/miscellaneous tasks BALUG would like to be doing
     (also feel free to suggest ideas!)

------------------------------



From itz at buug.org  Tue Aug 16 14:47:51 2016
From: itz at buug.org (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:47:51 -0700
Subject: [buug] GPG signing?
In-Reply-To: <20160804233648.13146vakqe1zo1es@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20160804164736.6616.14F27334@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
 <20160804233648.13146vakqe1zo1es@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20160816214616.28205.28838C32@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>

On 2016-08-04 23:36 -0700, Michael Paoli wrote:

> Sorry I wasn't able to make it ... earlier today was hoping I would.
> 
> There is also, biglumber.com, and also the
> Bay Area Keysigning list:
> http://zer0.org/mailman/listinfo/ba-keysign/

I signed up with biglumber, thanks.

I'll have my key info again this Thursday, hoping you can come :)

-- 
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Why does the arrow on Hillary signs point to the right?

From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Aug 16 17:57:03 2016
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:57:03 -0700
Subject: [buug] GPG signing? ... :-)
In-Reply-To: <20160816214616.28205.28838C32@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
References: <20160804164736.6616.14F27334@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
 <20160804233648.13146vakqe1zo1es@webmail.rawbw.com>
 <20160816214616.28205.28838C32@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
Message-ID: <20160816175703.17515j4tuvogz280@webmail.rawbw.com>

Yes, I expect to be at BUUG this Thursday :-)
Will also be at BALUG this evening (on my way there now).


> From: "Ian Zimmerman" <itz at buug.org>
> Subject: Re: [buug] GPG signing?
> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:47:51 -0700

> On 2016-08-04 23:36 -0700, Michael Paoli wrote:
>
>> Sorry I wasn't able to make it ... earlier today was hoping I would.
>>
>> There is also, biglumber.com, and also the
>> Bay Area Keysigning list:
>> http://zer0.org/mailman/listinfo/ba-keysign/
>
> I signed up with biglumber, thanks.
>
> I'll have my key info again this Thursday, hoping you can come :)


From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Aug 22 21:32:53 2016
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 21:32:53 -0700
Subject: [buug] Free beer, functional,
	non-Google webmail ...	https://protonmail.com/ ?
In-Reply-To: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
References: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
Message-ID: <20160822213253.107316zmlhnqgu00@webmail.rawbw.com>

Depending what one wants to do, this one might be worth
checking out:
https://protonmail.com/
It's not your basic SMTP/POP/IMAP,
but it might be a way to do things pretty darn securely.

> From: "Ian Zimmerman" <itz at buug.org>
> Subject: [buug] Free beer, functional, non-Google webmail
> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 11:19:30 -0700

> Is there any?
>
> By non-Google, of course I also mean non-Yahoo, non-Microsoft, etc.  For
> a while I was happy with tutanota [1] but their latest version is broken
> on my mobile device, both the "app" and in the browser.  And of course
> that is precisely the use case I need this for.
>
> [1]
> https://tutanota.com


From itz at primate.net  Fri Aug 26 11:57:05 2016
From: itz at primate.net (Ian Zimmerman)
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 11:57:05 -0700
Subject: [buug] Free beer, functional,
 non-Google webmail ... https://protonmail.com/ ?
In-Reply-To: <20160822213253.107316zmlhnqgu00@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20160807181340.6057.2EE104F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>
 <20160822213253.107316zmlhnqgu00@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20160826180202.10452.349552D6@matica.foolinux.mooo.com>

On 2016-08-22 21:32, Michael Paoli wrote:

> https://protonmail.com/

Right, that is almost the same thing as tutanota, but maybe better done
(still some connection to www, and not a pure "app" using http as a
transport).  I'll keep it as Plan C :-).  But meanwhile, I set up a
whitelist on primate.net and I put whitelisted mail I get there into the
IMAP box, then reading it on my mobile with k9mail.  I'll see how
reliable k9mail is this time.

Also it's unclear if the advantage in security will last:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-attacks-france-germany-idUSKCN10Y174

-- 
Please *no* private Cc: on mailing lists and newsgroups
Why does the arrow on Hillary signs point to the right?